Should I buy a condo or rent?

[Hummin]

8 years ago I was looking for appartment around 8 million, but there was so many fouls or details I found that constantly put me off from finalize a buy. Insted we escaped the ity during covid, and built a small farm for less than a quarter of the price I was willing to invest. Now I have other plans than staying in Thaland for the next 10- 15 years and happy I did not invest. 

 

My idea when building in Isaan was intil last spring, was to stay in Isaan to I was around 70, but as we go, e make new experiences, and we tend to make new decisions, or with we could. 

 

Most important, do not invest more than you are willing to leave behind you, there is thousands of prospects available for sale, while some moving faster than others, others do not sell att all, and even worse, very fee is willing to pay marked price to rent.

[ChipButty]

We bought a condo 8 years ago here in Phuket and paid 5.9 million baht, I would be lucky to get my money back, the only saving grace it has been a superb rental unit,

The property is still in good condition the management do a good job of taking care of the place and the pools, 

[Johno57]

12 hours ago, Celsius said:

 

You wrote that a 4 million baht condo rents out for 28,000 baht a month. Maybe in your dreams when a real estate agent aka bargirl told you so.

 

You said there is no capital gains when you resale. That one piece of advice must have come from a ladyboy.

 

You pay tax when you sell condo even if you sell for a loss.

 

Go back to bar.

Mate I don't need bargirls like you, cause I have a gorgeous wife, as I said on the beach side  in huahin condos to rent at 28k, not that I would pay that, as I have my own condo,and if you did some research you would find after 5 years owner ship ther is no capital gains tax payable, but cannot argue with fools as its a no win situation.. 

[henryford1958]

16 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

You want to buy a condo in a place that you cannot legally be a permanent resident and live daily at the beck and call of any new thai laws ? Go ahead, its your money. Would I ever sell my UK house and buy here ? Not a chance, I may be foolish but I am not an idiot. 

 

My advice would always be buy a property in your home country if you can and rent it out for both income and a safe haven if it all goes bits up here

 

I bought a nice 100 sqm apartment near the sea with pool and covered parking for 50,000 GBP. Please tell me where in the UK (if that's your home country) i can buy the same. In Brighton it would be about 600,000 GBP.

 

[Hummin]

On 11/25/2024 at 5:42 PM, Celsius said:

 

Everything you wrote is wrong. How did you manage?

A 4 million baht condo would rent for 5% a year maximum if location was right. We talking long term rental, and not high season short term rent.

 

 

[Celsius]

7 hours ago, Johno57 said:

Mate I don't need bargirls like you, cause I have a gorgeous wife, as I said on the beach side  in huahin condos to rent at 28k, not that I would pay that, as I have my own condo,and if you did some research you would find after 5 years owner ship ther is no capital gains tax payable, but cannot argue with fools as its a no win situation.. 

 

Your wife must be a "real estate agent"

[Hummin]

19 hours ago, khunPer said:

Rent is typically in the area between 8% and 12% of the investment; Average 10% of 4,000,000 is 400,000 baht/12 = 33,333 baht per month.

 

You cannot use an asked re-sale price for percentage calculation, it's a dream of capital gain and many properties are finally sold with a discount.

 

Now, if mortgage interest i around 6%, and you calculate a condo as business for the owner that rents it out, minimum 8% makes sense; location and market will increase the price. Some properties in prime locations are rented out for more than 12% the initial investment.

That's a dream to rent out for 12% of marked value, and not representiv for the long term average marked. Thumb of rule is 5% 

[bbi1]

22 hours ago, khunPer said:

Rent is typically in the area between 8% and 12% of the investment; Average 10% of 4,000,000 is 400,000 baht/12 = 33,333 baht per month.

 

You cannot use an asked re-sale price for percentage calculation, it's a dream of capital gain and many properties are finally sold with a discount.

 

Now, if mortgage interest i around 6%, and you calculate a condo as business for the owner that rents it out, minimum 8% makes sense; location and market will increase the price. Some properties in prime locations are rented out for more than 12% the initial investment.

Are you talking about renting it out to short-term tourists on AirBNB to get those rental yields?

[bbi1]

5 hours ago, Hummin said:

A 4 million baht condo would rent for 5% a year maximum if location was right. We talking long term rental, and not high season short term rent.

 

 

True dat. This guys on the money.

[Celsius]

12 hours ago, Johno57 said:

Mate I don't need bargirls like you, cause I have a gorgeous wife, as I said on the beach side  in huahin condos to rent at 28k, not that I would pay that, as I have my own condo,and if you did some research you would find after 5 years owner ship ther is no capital gains tax payable, but cannot argue with fools as its a no win situation.. 

 

I would ask for a refund from a ladyboy who gave you real estate advice.

[khunPer]

7 hours ago, Hummin said:

That's a dream to rent out for 12% of marked value, and not representiv for the long term average marked. Thumb of rule is 5% 

So, you would pay 6% interest in mortgage for a 5% return before expenses?
"Thumb rule" is average 10% in Thailand, then it can be lower of higher depending om location, market and terms.

[khunPer]

3 hours ago, bbi1 said:

Are you talking about renting it out to short-term tourists on AirBNB to get those rental yields?

Generally for renting out property.

[Hummin]

18 minutes ago, khunPer said:

So, you would pay 6% interest in mortgage for a 5% return before expenses?
"Thumb rule" is average 10% in Thailand, then it can be lower of higher depending om location, market and terms.

it is all about what the marked is willing to pay, and that segment where you an rent out long term for 8% is very few prospects, and even less at 10. 

 

Thumb of rule, the only way to make money in Thailand, is to have enogh money to spend in first place. I havent found one prospect that would pay of, unless thai bath become stronger, and my Nok continue to drop. 

[khunPer]

10 minutes ago, Hummin said:

it is all about what the marked is willing to pay, and that segment where you an rent out long term for 8% is very few prospects, and even less at 10. 

 

Thumb of rule, the only way to make money in Thailand, is to have enogh money to spend in first place. I havent found one prospect that would pay of, unless thai bath become stronger, and my Nok continue to drop. 

I'm not talking about a foreigner that invest in a condo, I'm talking about how Thais are calculation for investment in property. Hand rule is: "10%" per year of invested capital.

[Hummin]

14 minutes ago, khunPer said:

I'm not talking about a foreigner that invest in a condo, I'm talking about how Thais are calculation for investment in property. Hand rule is: "10%" per year of invested capital.

Well, Im not sure about your knownledge of thais in general invest, and calculate their investment return. What I have seen, they invest in empty shells or empty appartment buildings, and let their investment rot, or they invest in land, and do not touch it for a long time before they sell with huge margin loss. Also retired rich Bangkok people invest in farms, build restaurants, resorts, and I can promise you, they will never see any return on their investments ever in their life time. 

 

Im quite interested to hear your experience with thai investors, who most likely is on the other side of the table, those who build and sell new built properties. I do not say it is impossible to make money, but you need the experience, knownledge of the local marked, and also be willing to make things happen, and not just sit back and think it is going to happen by itself. 

 

 

He said these 1.3 million residential units have already been built, but no one is occupying them, or they have moved in and out already.

These residential units include single houses, semi-detached houses, townhouses, row houses, and condominium units.

He added that the total number of registered residential units is currently around 27.71 million units, and 1.31 million units, or 4.7% of them, have no occupants.

 

https://thailand-construction.com/1-3-million-empty-residential-units-including-houses-and-condominium-units-worth-a-total-of-2-6-trillion-baht-in-thailand/

 

 

[Airalee]

34 minutes ago, khunPer said:

I'm not talking about a foreigner that invest in a condo, I'm talking about how Thais are calculation for investment in property. Hand rule is: "10%" per year of invested capital.

Yes…but this thread is about a foreigner buying a condo.  And there is no way that a 4 million baht condo anywhere in Thailand brings in even close to 30k/month.   The P/E ratios are way out of whack here.  5% would probably be a damn good return.  If you get into the higher end stuff, people would be lucky to get 3% with a cash purchase…and that’s not counting all the time it sits empty.

 

And fwiw….I own an 8 million baht condo.

[Hanuman2547]

On 11/24/2024 at 4:25 AM, cowboys2008 said:

I'm retiring soon. Should I buy a condo for about $125,000 or rent?

RENT!!

[LarryLEB]

My answer:  NEVER buy in Thailand, RENT only.  

[blazes]

On 11/25/2024 at 12:55 PM, edwardflory said:

My opinion: LOCATION

 

Have a older Thai condo in BKK area, mortgage & fees ( 16 years and still paying ) total 2050bt a month. around 3000 people as neighbors in 8 buildings of 5 stories

 

Have house in wife's home village, old, on stilts, and village in the middle of nowhere - 1 hour to a major shopping area the OTHER side of the mountain.

 

LIVING in KORAT,

2 BR house with indoor kitchen, fenced yard, veggie garden, gated community. 4 MAJOR stores within 10 minutes, with Immigration 15 minutes away, can't count mom & pop stores and 7-11 under 10 minutes. Fishing lake 2 minutes -20 minutes from center city Korat.

4500bt a month.

 

Is that mortgage costs or rent....not clear?

[norsurin]

Buy and wait until Thailand take it from u.U cant trust this country at all.

[BKKKevin]

On 11/27/2024 at 1:38 PM, bbi1 said:

Are you talking about renting it out to short-term tourists on AirBNB to get those rental yields?

My bet is the average yield from AirBNB are not that good…

You may get a higher daily rate but the unit sits empty many days between customers, AirBNB takes a hefty cut, the tenants run the AC continuously and you have to hire help to basically make it a hotel type of experience and be on call to make sure things run smoothly… I like staying in high end condo styled AirBNB but I’ve noticed that many of the units are looking pretty beat up… The furniture is trashed, walls gouged by suitcases and the AC are in poor condition which takes away from the value of your initial investment.

[Nemises]

FACT: You will die sooner if you rent!
 

 …from the age of 65 the life expectancy of renters was 2.3 years shorter than owner occupiers,” Dr Kiely said.

 

 

https://www.uow.edu.au/media/2024/older-australians-who-rent-their-homes-have-shorter-life-expectancy.php

[khunPer]

20 hours ago, Airalee said:

Yes…but this thread is about a foreigner buying a condo.  And there is no way that a 4 million baht condo anywhere in Thailand brings in even close to 30k/month.   The P/E ratios are way out of whack here.  5% would probably be a damn good return.  If you get into the higher end stuff, people would be lucky to get 3% with a cash purchase…and that’s not counting all the time it sits empty.

 

And fwiw….I own an 8 million baht condo.

The tread is about buying instead of renting. You might likely rent at market price from Thais, which is around 10% of the invested funds. So, to compare one's investment of 4 million baht, I gave a figure of what rent to likely look for, and the possibilities for that in a long-term view it is better buying than renting, but needed to be calculated individually.

And when a foreigner invest in a Condo for profit with often a guaranteed return of 6% p.a., the condo is not rented out for 5% or 6%, but rather minimum 8%.

 

If some people – foreigners og Thais – wish to lose money by renting out too cheap, up to them. In Thailand generally buildings lose value over long term, while the land under the building increase value. The Thai property investors I know count's with 10% reduction in building value per year – following year 10% of 90%, an so on – while they also count 10% of their investment for rent.

[Airalee]

3 minutes ago, khunPer said:

The tread is about buying instead of renting. You might likely rent at market price from Thais, which is around 10% of the invested funds. So, to compare one's investment of 4 million baht, I gave a figure of what rent to likely look for, and the possibilities for that in a long-term view it is better buying than renting, but needed to be calculated individually.

Before I bought, I rented from Thais who paid 4m for their condos.  In Chiang Mai I paid 14k and in Bangkok 18k.  Once again, show me a condo that has a 10% return.  I can show many with 3% or less returns.

 

4 minutes ago, khunPer said:

And when a foreigner invest in a Condo for profit with often a guaranteed return of 6% p.a., the condo is not rented out for 5% or 6%, but rather minimum 8%.

I am very well aware of the games played by developers offering the “guaranteed” 6% return.  They overcharge for the condo and then basically refund your money over the length of the contract.  It doesn’t matter what it rents for.  Good luck selling for the same price after the 3-5 year “guarantee”

 

7 minutes ago, khunPer said:

If some people – foreigners og Thais – wish to lose money by renting out too cheap, up to them. In Thailand generally buildings lose value over long term, while the land under the building increase value. The Thai property investors I know count's with 10% reduction in building value per year – following year 10% of 90%, an so on – while they also count 10% of their investment for rent.

Once again, if you can’t show me examples comparing apples to apples which is easy to do with a condo you’re just coming off as a scammy realtor.

 

And land price means nothing when you have 3-400 units on an acre.

[khunPer]

20 hours ago, Hummin said:

Well, Im not sure about your knownledge of thais in general invest, and calculate their investment return. What I have seen, they invest in empty shells or empty appartment buildings, and let their investment rot, or they invest in land, and do not touch it for a long time before they sell with huge margin loss. Also retired rich Bangkok people invest in farms, build restaurants, resorts, and I can promise you, they will never see any return on their investments ever in their life time. 

 

Im quite interested to hear your experience with thai investors, who most likely is on the other side of the table, those who build and sell new built properties. I do not say it is impossible to make money, but you need the experience, knownledge of the local marked, and also be willing to make things happen, and not just sit back and think it is going to happen by itself. 

 

 

He said these 1.3 million residential units have already been built, but no one is occupying them, or they have moved in and out already.

These residential units include single houses, semi-detached houses, townhouses, row houses, and condominium units.

He added that the total number of registered residential units is currently around 27.71 million units, and 1.31 million units, or 4.7% of them, have no occupants.

 

https://thailand-construction.com/1-3-million-empty-residential-units-including-houses-and-condominium-units-worth-a-total-of-2-6-trillion-baht-in-thailand/

Some times there are empty property for rent, when for example there has been an over-investment compared to actual market – look for example at China – building apartments for rent is not a short process like buying an already existing condo, it's years of planning ahead. Probably, no one had included a COVID-pandemic in their long-term planning.

 

Long-term investors, with good financial foundation, might also think it's better just to wait a few years to market change and get the calculated return and make a profit, rather than panic and rent out with a loss. However, if the capital foundation is not solid enough, the investor has a problem, again look at China.

 

Mortgage or interest of the investor's own funds is around 6%. Mortgage-interest can change with market, while long term investors calculate with 6%-7% pay-back per year, the same figure as long stock stock investment pays; look for example at a 100-year stock average.

[Hummin]

24 minutes ago, khunPer said:

Some times there are empty property for rent, when for example there has been an over-investment compared to actual market – look for example at China – building apartments for rent is not a short process like buying an already existing condo, it's years of planning ahead. Probably, no one had included a COVID-pandemic in their long-term planning.

 

Long-term investors, with good financial foundation, might also think it's better just to wait a few years to market change and get the calculated return and make a profit, rather than panic and rent out with a loss. However, if the capital foundation is not solid enough, the investor has a problem, again look at China.

 

Mortgage or interest of the investor's own funds is around 6%. Mortgage-interest can change with market, while long term investors calculate with 6%-7% pay-back per year, the same figure as long stock stock investment pays; look for example at a 100-year stock average.

 

 

The Asian property marked is good for those who need their money in circulation to make them clean, not for average Joe. 

 

I will not risk My hard earned legal money in Asian property. 

 

I have gambled on farm land for my wife, and so far exceeded my expectations, at least as long we ar married. 

 

 

 

 

[1FinickyOne]

For me, that is more a living condition question than financial. 

 

If you like the idea of making a place your own, your homme and fixing it up extra special, then you need to own. 

 

If you find a condo that you would be content living in, as is, then renting might be better. Do the math. 

[AndreasHG]

On 11/24/2024 at 7:25 PM, cowboys2008 said:

I'm retiring soon. Should I buy a condo for about $125,000 or rent?

 

Rent first. If you like the building, the neighborhood and the location you can go ahead and buy. But take your time and negotiate hard. 

 

[Watawattana]

Rent.

[Hummin]

10 minutes ago, Watawattana said:

Rent.

There is no problem to buy, if you know you going to live there for 10 years, and you know the management is good, and the condominium is well run with decent rules, and the majority of owners, pays their maintenance fees, and you choose an apartment you know will be easy to sell, because of the location, the majority of the owners, is good, the maintenance is good, the facilities is attractive, the floor and side of building is attractive, and the apartment have good solutions, a proper kitchen, balcony, etc. Then you can be lucky, and if you do not have a crazy neighbour, who makes you life miserable for some reasons you didn't even think of