LTR Visa - stoked!

[Srikcir]

On 12/3/2024 at 1:45 PM, oldcpu said:

"the jury is still out"

It is by Royal Proclamation - there is no jury.

[Srikcir]

On 12/3/2024 at 11:08 AM, pedro01 said:

The agency hasn't even billed me

I can't see what they did for you that you couldn't on your own. But you're satisfied and that's what counts.

[oldcpu]

1 hour ago, Srikcir said:

It is by Royal Proclamation - there is no jury.

 

lol

 

I guess you never heard of that expression.

 

The point, which perhaps you missed, is if you read the Royal Decree, you will read in section-7 and 8 that it specifies the Minister of Finance overseas the Royal Decree. My understanding is the Thai RD is part of that ministry.

 

Further if one reads the Royal Decree, it is clear that it (1) talks of remitted foreign assessable income, and (2) exempts Wealthy Pensioners (and Wealthy Global citizens) from paying tax on that remitted foreign assessable income. 

 

WHAT IT DOES NOT STATE  is state that remitted foreign assessable income is not assessable.

 

No where does does the Royal Decree state foreign remitted income is not assessable.

 

Now the Thai RD requires remitted assessable foreign income after 31-Dec-2023, that exceeds a certain threshold (that has not been made not-assessable by a DTA) , have a Thai income tax return filed by Thai tax residents (ie > 180 days in Thailand in a taxation year).

 

So that begs the question, ... does Thai income tax return have to be filed (in accordance with Thai RD instructions) for remitted foreign ASSESSABLE income (where fortunately for the noted LTR visa holders that income also happens to be tax exempt)? 

 

The Royal Decree also states failure to comply in any tax year with selected clauses of the Royal Decree (such as following instruction of the Director General (Thai RD from my understanding)) will lose their exemption. This potentially is serious.

 

So to repeat :  the Royal Decree refers to remitted assessable income.  The Royal Decree does NOT state foreign remitted income is NOT assessable.

 

Now I believe everyone, including myself, HOPE that the Royal Decree means a tax-ID # is NOT needed, and hopefully means NO income tax return is required for LTR-WP/WGC visa holders who have no Thai income (over a certain threshold) who remit 2024 income into Thailand. 

 

That is what we hope.  BoI have even stated such, BUT the Thai RD (who govern this) have NOT stated that. 

 

Further, when my wife (with myself) contacted the Thai RD they noted they had never heard of an LTR visa.

 

So the need to file or not file a tax return (for 2024 assessable income remitted to Thailand) by an LTR-WP/WGC visa holder is by no means clear when I read translations of the Royal Decree.  For certain there are those in the Thai RD who have not heard of the Visa and hence have not heard of no requirement to not file a tax return of remitted 2024 tax year income into Thailand..  .... That does not mean a return is required - it just means there are those in the Thai RD who themselves may not know.

 

So to use the expression again "the jury is still out"....  I suspect sometime in late year 2025 or maybe even 2026 we will get more clarity on this.

 

The Jury is still out.

[DrJack54]

Baiting post removed 

[pedro01]

3 hours ago, Phillip9 said:

 

Just to summarize: 

 

You paid 50k to an agent.  You had a hole in your passport, but got your visa approved.  

 

The guy without an agent didn't get his approved.  

 

 

 

 

 

Good point

 

But it was the BOI lady that pointed out the hole. I was with the agent and we just shrugged - wasn't much we could do.

 

She told us the boss may reject it. Then she left to see the boss. She came back with a big smile.

 

We all smiled - I couldn't believe a Thai official had overlooked an excuse to ***** a foreigner.

 

I don't think the agent helped to be honest - but who knows?

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, oldcpu said:

So to repeat :  the Royal Decree refers to remitted assessable income.  The Royal Decree does NOT state foreign remitted income is NOT assessable.

Didn't you beat this dead horse in another thread? Didn't the Royal Decree say remitted income by LTR holders is not taxable. And if certain income is deemed not taxable, it can no longer -- ipso facto -- be considered assessable income, as that term becomes meaningless if no taxation is attached to it. Give this line of concern a break. As a Wealthy Pensioner LTR visa holder, no taxes and no tax return are due. BoI folks have already expressed this fact to some who have asked -- why do you go on about this? Why do you worry about not filing a null tax return -- when clearly no tax evasion, by definition, has taken place?

[pedro01]

7 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Didn't you beat this dead horse in another thread? Didn't the Royal Decree say remitted income by LTR holders is not taxable. And if certain income is deemed not taxable, it can no longer -- ipso facto -- be considered assessable income, as that term becomes meaningless if no taxation is attached to it. Give this line of concern a break. As a Wealthy Pensioner LTR visa holder, no taxes and no tax return are due. BoI folks have already expressed this fact to some who have asked -- why do you go on about this? Why do you worry about not filing a null tax return -- when clearly no tax evasion, by definition, has taken place?

 

 I will add - once I got my passport in hand - first question I asked the officed "so - no taxes" - and he confirmed. 

 

That'll be my defense in court anyway.

[oldcpu]

49 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Didn't you beat this dead horse in another thread?

 

I was explaining WHY I stated "the jury is still out".  I had not planned to go into detail ... but when asked I thought it necessary to explain. I am not trying to 'beat a dead horse' (and for certain this is not a dead issue.  It is very pertinent).

 

49 minutes ago, JimGant said:

 And if certain income is deemed not taxable, it can no longer -- ipso facto -- be considered assessable income

 

no ... it is EXEMPT from Tax.  .... There is a BIG difference.

 

Answer this please.  Why is there a separate form in the Thai tax return where one lists 'exempt from taxation' income?  Why does the RD bother with such a form to list tax exempt income?

 

If what you stated is true, there would be no need for such a form.  BUT there is such a form - once again - a form where tax exempt income is listed.

 

OK?  Is this clear to you now?

 

I concede you disagree. Fine!

 

Further I  hope your view is correct.

 

But for DAMN CERTAIN I will not do my financial planning based only on hope.

 

49 minutes ago, JimGant said:

BoI folks have already expressed this fact to some who have asked

 

No . BoI expressed an opinion on this and when it comes to matters of taxation, it is the Thai RD, following Thai tax law and the Thai Royal decree that matters - NOT some statement of one  person ?? from BoI.

 

Do you disagree with that?  Do you believe BoI can overrule Thai tax law (ie requirement to file a Thai tax return if one has assessable foreign income - where there is a tax form where tax exempt income is listed), and do you believe the BoI can over rule the Royal Decree where the Royal Decree specifically refers to 'assessable income'?

 

 

49 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Why do you worry about not filing a null tax return -- when clearly no tax evasion, by definition, has taken place?

 

I don't worry.  I decided NOT to bring in ANY income (assessable or not) into Thailand for tax year 2024 to 2027 (or longer) until you are proven correct ... which I hope is the case.

 

but once again, for DAMN CERTAIN I will not do my financial planning based only on my hope and your view.

 

My best wishes to all in how they go about this.

[pedro01]

5 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

I was explaining WHY I stated "the jury is still out".  I had not planned to go into detail ... but when asked I thought it necessary to explain. I am not trying to 'beat a dead horse' (and for certain this is not a dead issue.  It is very pertinent).

 

 

no ... it is EXEMPT from Tax.  .... There is a BIG difference.

 

Answer this please.  Why is there a separate form in the Thai tax return where one lists exempt from taxation income?  Why does the RD bother with such a form to list tax exempt income?

 

If what you stated is true, there would be no need for such a form.  BUT there is such a form - once again - a form where tax exempt income is listed.

 

OK?  Is this clear to you now?

 

I concede you disagree. Fine!

 

Further I  hope your view is correct.

 

But for DAMN CERTAIN I will not do my financial planning based only on hope.

 

 

No . BoI expressed an opinion on this and when it comes to matters of taxation, it is the Thai RD, following Thai tax law and the Thai Royal decree that matters - NOT some statement of one  person ?? from BoI.

 

Do you disagree with that?  Do you believe BoI can overrule Thai tax law (ie requirement to file a Thai tax return if one has assessable foreign income - where there is a tax form where tax exempt income is listed), and do you believe the BoI can over rule the Royal Decree where the Royal Decree specifically refers to 'assessable income'?

 

 

 

I don't worry.  I decided NOT to bring in ANY income (assessable or not) into Thailand for tax year 2024 to 2027 (or longer) until you are proven correct ... which I hope is the case.

 

but once again, for DAMN CERTAIN I will not do my financial planning based only on my hope and your view.

 

My best wishes to all in how they go about this.

 

You are wrong. BOI officers are right.

 

Hope this helps.

[pedro01]

I will add on the BOI thing. 

 

I first dealt with BOI in '99 as I was part of a startup here. Then again in 2001, for a startup I created for a Japanese MNC.

 

In both cases, BOI gave us tax exemption - I can't remember how long. In the 2001 case, they gave me an "unlisted" benefit - meaning a benefit that isn't in their guidelines. The benefit we got was an Alien Business License for a 100% foreign-owned entity.  

 

Saying the BOI don't understand taxes is funny.

 

One of their main things is handing out tax benefits to new entities. 

 

The guy saying that BOI don't understand the benefits they are giving out - well he's just misguided.

 

It's their job to know. The other part they know is how to qualify.

[oldcpu]

1 minute ago, pedro01 said:

 

You are wrong. BOI officers are right.

 

Hope this helps.

 

BoI officers now? There is more than one? Which ones?  If so clear why don't they post this on their BoI website?

 

How about Thai tax law? Law that states Tax residents with foreign assessable income over a certain threshold (with no DTA exclusion) must file a tax return.  And a Royal Decree that says remitted foreign assessable income is tax exempt, while at the same time Thai RD provide a tax form where taxation exempt assessable income is supposed to be listed.

 

So what you typed doesn't help.   I do thou very much appreciate your intent.

 

My plan is to simply wait this out - and I am fortunate to have the luxury of waiting it out.

 

For what it is worth, I hope YOU are right - but I will NOT do my financial planning based only a hope.  I have learned the hardway in my lifetime, that planning on only a 'hope' without taking other measures is not a good course of action for me.

 

Again - I do hope you are correct.

[oldcpu]

Just now, pedro01 said:

The guy saying that BOI don't understand the benefits they are giving out - well he's just misguided.

 

 

 

Who says that?

 

The BoI website is clear.  Remitted foreign income is tax exempt .

 

The BoI website says NOTHING about tax return requirements.  Only one person on AseanNow saying some unknown BoI officials ?? official ?? expressed an opinion.  And was it one official? A junior official?  A senior official?  More than one?

 

Serious?

 

Anyway , I expressed my caution.  I hope others succeed in their approach, as I have no bad wishes here.

 

Take care.

 

[pedro01]

7 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

BoI officers now? There is more than one? Which ones?  If so clear why don't they post this on their BoI website?

 

How about Thai tax law? Law that states Tax residents with foreign assessable income over a certain threshold (with no DTA exclusion) must file a tax return.  And a Royal Decree that says remitted foreign assessable income is tax exempt, while at the same time Thai RD provide a tax form where taxation exempt assessable income is supposed to be listed.

 

So what you typed doesn't help.   I do thou very much appreciate your intent.

 

My plan is to simply wait this out - and I am fortunate to have the luxury of waiting it out.

 

For what it is worth, I hope YOU are right - but I will NOT do my financial planning based only a hope.  I have learned the hardway in my lifetime, that planning on only a 'hope' without taking other measures is not a good course of action for me.

 

Again - I do hope you are correct.

 

Yeah BOI officers, there's plenty of them - maybe that's why they have a location in Lat Phrao as well as CBD.

 

As for the website. https://ltr.boi.go.th/

 

 

Maybe the BOI isn't the issue.

[oldcpu]

6 minutes ago, pedro01 said:

 

Yeah BOI officers, there's plenty of them - maybe that's why they have a location in Lat Phrao as well as CBD.

 

As for the website. https://ltr.boi.go.th/

 

 

Maybe the BOI isn't the issue.

 

Please point out on that website page where it states that an official Thai RD tax return form (where nominally assessable tax exempt income is to be listed) is not required.

 

Again - I hope you are correct , but I won't do my planning based on a hope.

.

[pedro01]

19 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

Please point out on that website page where it states that an official Thai RD tax return form (where nominally assessable tax exempt income is to be listed) is not required.

 

Again - I hope you are correct , but I won't do my planning based on a hope.

.

 

There is no website that has the EXACT TEXT you are looking for - partly because laws here are written in Thai language, partly because your words aren't theirs.

 

If you want an English translation from the BOI site, explaining the exemption. It can be found here: https://ltr.boi.go.th/documents/Notification of Income Tax No.427 (EN).pdf

 

Thai version here: https://ltr.boi.go.th/documents/Notification of Income Tax No. 427 (TH).pdf

 

"Clause 2 A foreigner categorised as High-Skilled Professional, Wealthy Global Citizen, Wealthy Pensioner, or Work-from-Thailand Professional who is eligible for income tax reduction or exemption under Section 3, Section 4, or Section 5 of the Royal Decree issued under the Revenue Code governing reduction of tax rates and exemption of taxes (No. 743) B.E. 2565 (2022), as the case may be, must meet the following qualifications: (1) Be granted a Long-Term Resident Visa under immigration law, as the case may be; (2) Meets qualifications for and complies with rules and conditions on Long-Term Resident Visa as prescribed by the Office of the Board of Investment."

 

At the bottom of the document...

 

Issued on 26th August B.E. 2565 (2022)

Lavaron Sangsnit

(Mr Lavaron Sangsnit)

Director-General of the Revenue Department

 

 

Now - I know you wont be happy.

- Needs to be on BOI website - OK!

- Needs to refer to revenue department - OK!

- Doesn't contain the EXACT words you need - aaaaawwww shucks

 

So - the revenue dept, the BOI are singing from the same hymn book. 

 

Fill in whatever forms you like. 

[oldcpu]

27 minutes ago, pedro01 said:

 

Now - I know you wont be happy.

- Needs to be on BOI website - OK!

- Needs to refer to revenue department - OK!

- Doesn't contain the EXACT words you need - aaaaawwww shucks

 

So - the revenue dept, the BOI are singing from the same hymn book. 

 

Fill in whatever forms you like. 

 

No - nothing you post states RD and BoI are "singing from the same hymn book". That is just your hopeful thinking.  I hope the same but I won't let my hope skewer my assessment as what could take place.

 

I still think you miss my point.

 

What I am looking for is Revenue Department confirmation that a Thai tax return is not required.

 

[pedro01]

6 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

No - nothing you post states RD and BoI are "singing from the same hymn book". That is just your hopeful thinking.  I hope the same but I won't let my hope skewer my assessment as what could take place.

 

I still think you miss my point.

 

What I am looking for is Revenue Department confirmation that a Thai tax return is not required.

 

 

TiT - and if that's not a good enough explanation for you - enjoy chasing your tail.

[DrJack54]

Bickering posts if continue thread will be  closed

[oldcpu]

Deleted

 

[JimGant]

6 hours ago, oldcpu said:

Answer this please.  Why is there a separate form in the Thai tax return where one lists 'exempt from taxation' income?  Why does the RD bother with such a form to list tax exempt income?

That form, as I read it, is to take an exemption on certain incomes for being disabled, under age 65. Or for taking exemptions for being over age 65 -- up to a maximum of 190000 baht. Nothing to do with certain categories of income being exempt by Royal Decree or TRD edict.

[eastbaybob]

I’m currently on a Non O and just figured out I’m eligible for this visa.  My only question is about the insurance. I’m retired from the States and my insurance from my former job there(Blue Cross) covers me here in Thailand. Will that work for the LTR visa or do I need Thai insurance?

[ELBE1]

It does not have to be a Thai Insurance. As long as the insurance certificate will list Thailand as host country as well your document should be accepted.

[Presnock]

On 12/4/2024 at 6:57 AM, PJ71 said:

I find this unlikely, i signed one form two times, was in the bank and immigration office for a total of not more than 10 mins for my retirement visa ( using an agent ).

 

Pls explain how this was 'waaaaaay easier'?

your money so do what you think is best for you.  I had a retirement O for 20 years, went through many changes at immigration and from US Embassy during that time so that the last few years have been really easy with very little time actually spent but did have to get bank letters, no money in bank, just did the monthly remittances, and now 90-day on line so that too is an easier change but, the LTR basically is cheaper over the 10-year period (no agent fees on top of that savings), no 90-day reports at all, once a year walkin or have someone take a filled in form 95 to BOI or immigration if one doesn't leave the country - in that case, the 1-year report is extended until that date a year from reentering.  No bank letters, no agents needed at all and anything one has to do can be done at home, not anywhere else.  I fail to see how having an agent could possibly be easier than the LTR - no taxes on remittances to Thailand of foreign funds either!  In any case this is the best visa for me and my finances.

[PJ71]

1 hour ago, Presnock said:

your money so do what you think is best for you.  I had a retirement O for 20 years, went through many changes at immigration and from US Embassy during that time so that the last few years have been really easy with very little time actually spent but did have to get bank letters, no money in bank, just did the monthly remittances, and now 90-day on line so that too is an easier change but, the LTR basically is cheaper over the 10-year period (no agent fees on top of that savings), no 90-day reports at all, once a year walkin or have someone take a filled in form 95 to BOI or immigration if one doesn't leave the country - in that case, the 1-year report is extended until that date a year from reentering.  No bank letters, no agents needed at all and anything one has to do can be done at home, not anywhere else.  I fail to see how having an agent could possibly be easier than the LTR - no taxes on remittances to Thailand of foreign funds either!  In any case this is the best visa for me and my finances.

I'm happy for you - another superstar, well done.

[ronnie50]

On 12/4/2024 at 10:23 AM, oldcpu said:

My 'pensioner' income comes from 3 separate sources to make the qualifying amount.  BUT what BoI were more interested was my last 2 Canadian tax returns which had the 'lump sump' of my non-Thai income as a singular (sum) amount.  I also provided the proof as the 3 separate pensioner income sources (German Pension, European organisation pension, and CanadianOld Age Security) and that was accepted.

In order to tally up your passive income, to make sure you 'measured up', did the BOI want to see the gross amount of the pensions, etc., or the net amount of the three different income streams? I guess there might have been taxes at source, or global medical insurance deducted each month from one of them. Do you know if it was gross or net income they tallied up? Cheers.

[JimGant]

46 minutes ago, ronnie50 said:

Do you know if it was gross or net income they tallied up?

Gross. That was a question many of us had early on in this game, and they came back very emphatically saying "gross."

[ronnie50]

23 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Gross. That was a question many of us had early on in this game, and they came back very emphatically saying "gross."

Great, thanks for the quick reply.