Britain and Italy Join Forces to Target People-Smuggling Gangs with Mafia-Inspired Tactics

[Chomper Higgot]

12 minutes ago, mokwit said:

I think we are talking about two different schemes, as per my post above, I am talking about Brazilians who mostly overstayed their visas and for a figure to be up 16% YoY there must have been a material number in the year prior (see the numbers in earlier post).

 

Trying to conflate the paid return Brazil scheme with Rwanda scheme is dishonest.

I’m not conflating anything, I’m drawing a very clear comparison between Labour quietly deporting 13,500 people and the Tories spending hundreds of £millions to deport 4 people.

 

The OP makes a comparison to the improved deportation record of Labour over the Tories.

 

 

[CG1 Blue]

3 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Why did it take a change of Government to get any of this done?

What has been done? Young Muslim men are still crossing the Channel in small boats in record numbers. 

 

If Labour stop the boat crossings they'll deserve praise. And if they start immediately deporting the ones who already made it across, then they'll deserve praise.  

 

Sending a few Brazillian visa overstayers back home is not going to excite the British public. 

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

What has been done? Young Muslim men are still crossing the Channel in small boats in record numbers. 

 

If Labour stop the boat crossings they'll deserve praise. And if they start immediately deporting the ones who already made it across, then they'll deserve praise.  

 

Sending a few Brazillian visa overstayers back home is not going to excite the British public. 

You did read the OP?

[mokwit]

20 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I’m not conflating anything, I’m drawing a very clear comparison between Labour quietly deporting 13,500 people and the Tories spending hundreds of £millions to deport 4 people.

 

The OP makes a comparison to the improved deportation record of Labour over the Tories.

 

 

OP from DT just gives a figure of 13,500 with no comparison and no mention of an improved deportation record for Labour. Thee Guardian article gives an increase of 16 and 12% respectively and the 2024 figures for voluntary and involuntary and the Guardian is sceptical and points out that this is for Brazil.

 

'The government is keen to trumpet its deportation credentials with figures published on Thursday revealing 8,308 enforced and voluntary returns between July and September 2024, a 16% increase on the same period last year. The majority – 6,247 – were voluntary returns, an increase of 12% on this category of returns during the same period in 2023. While the government is keen to promote the numbers returned they have failed to mention publicly that the destination of these historic deportation flights was Brazil.'

 

Deportations from the figures for Brazil representing 8,XXX people are up 16% YoY - that could be normal variation, I would suspect that the difference between 8,XXX Brazilians and the total of 13,500 people also represents a YoY increase rather than a YoY absolute increase of 13,500 - 8,XXXX people.

 

Cooper wasn't "quiet" about it she gave the figures as if the number had gone from 0 to 13,500 under the Labour Govt in 5 months, rather than it being from an ongoing pipeline. Rather disingenuous of her. Claiming credit where maybe none or not much was due, but we have come to expect that from this Govt.

 

Rwanda has nothing to do with the Brazilian figures which make up the bulk of the claimed 13,500.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, mokwit said:

OP from DT just gives a figure of 13,500 with no comparison. the Guardian article just gives an increase of 16 and 12% respectively for voluntary and involuntary and the Guardian is sceptical and points out that this is for Brazil.

 

'The government is keen to trumpet its deportation credentials with figures published on Thursday revealing 8,308 enforced and voluntary returns between July and September 2024, a 16% increase on the same period last year. The majority – 6,247 – were voluntary returns, an increase of 12% on this category of returns during the same period in 2023. While the government is keen to promote the numbers returned they have failed to mention publicly that the destination of these historic deportation flights was Brazil.'

 

Deportations from the figures for Brazil representing 8,XXX people are up 16% YoY - that could be normal variation, I would suspect that the difference between 8,XXX Brazilians and the total of 13,500 people also represents a YoY increase rather than a YoY absolute increase of 13,500 - 8,XXXX people.

 

Cooper wasn't "quiet" about it she gave the figures as if the number had gone from 0 to 13,500 under the Labour Govt in 5 months, rather than it being from an ongoing pipeline. Rather disingenuous of her. Claiming credit where maybe none or not much was due, but we have come to expect that from this Govt.

 

Rwanda has nothing to do with the Brazilian figures which make up the bulk of the claimed 13,500.

The Rwanda scheme is something to do with the comparison between time periods, and hence Governments, referred to in the OP.

 

Back to the OP, do you agree coordinating with the Italian Government to go after the people smuggling gangs by means of the ‘follow the money’ method that has successfully been used against Mafia gangs is a positive development?

[mokwit]

7 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You did read the OP?

You seem to be reading things in OP that no one else can see, it talks of Labours pkllans/spending and mentions a figure of 13,500 with no comparison and no mention of an improved deportation record for Labour. It says highest in 5 years, and that may be true but is a 12/16% that significant. It is not a doubling, or even 50% increase.

[mokwit]

19 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Back to the OP, do you agree coordinating with the Italian Government to go after the people smuggling gangs by means of the ‘follow the money’ method that has successfully been used against Mafia gangs is a positive development?

Yes, of course, I will acknowledge that, after all it is an organised business, not a family fleeing war buying a dinghy. How well it will work with Pakistani Hwala type networks used in many of the regions these people are coming from I don't know. US DEA has problems cracking them.

 

It is still not addressing boats arriving TODAY or the large numbers housed and fed at at taxpayers expense.

 

Also I feel the focus on illegal immigration, whilst commendable, deflects from the problem of too high legal immigration which has been ongoing starting with Blair Govt.

 

If you are going to point out the Tories record against a backdrop of promises to rein in immigration, no need, the electorate knew and we no longer have a Tory govt in part because of this. Bunch of useless idiots.

[AgMech Cowboy]

15 hours ago, Social Media said:

The taskforce will adopt a “follow the money” strategy, aiming to disrupt the illicit financial networks that underpin people-smuggling operations.

IMHO, I think they'll find most of the funding is coming from the UN.  Something like the International Organization for Migration (IOM).

[AndreasHG]

5 hours ago, James105 said:

If there were zero illegal immigrants arriving

 

In 2023, with the Tories firmly in government, benefitting of an overwhelming majority in the House, a total of 1.129 milion people immigrated to the UK (net of British nationals re-immigrating into the country). In 2016, the year Brexit was approved, 0.514 million immigrants were recorded. 

 

These numbers prove that a zero-immigration target is unachievable. Actually, the truth is, without immigration, the UK economy would be toast. If the Tories doubled the number of (legal) immigrants in few years, it's because they know at least one thing or two about the UK economy.

Electoral promises to allure the masses are one thing, responsible policies, to keep the economy growing, are a completely different thing.

 

[hotandsticky]

18 minutes ago, AndreasHG said:

 

In 2023, with the Tories firmly in government, benefitting of an overwhelming majority in the House, a total of 1.129 milion people immigrated to the UK (net of British nationals re-immigrating into the country). In 2016, the year Brexit was approved, 0.514 million immigrants were recorded. 

 

These numbers prove that a zero-immigration target is unachievable. Actually, the truth is, without immigration, the UK economy would be toast. If the Tories doubled the number of (legal) immigrants in few years, it's because they know at least one thing or two about the UK economy.

Electoral promises to allure the masses are one thing, responsible policies, to keep the economy growing, are a completely different thing.

 

 

 

You make a good point; zero-immigration is neither achievable - nor desirable.

 

However, there does need to be reset and greater focus on attracting immigrants that do have that positive impact on the economy - and, in the case of nursing, haulage catering (and any other industry with a skills shortage) there should be a fast-track system.

[James105]

2 hours ago, AndreasHG said:

 

In 2023, with the Tories firmly in government, benefitting of an overwhelming majority in the House, a total of 1.129 milion people immigrated to the UK (net of British nationals re-immigrating into the country). In 2016, the year Brexit was approved, 0.514 million immigrants were recorded. 

 

These numbers prove that a zero-immigration target is unachievable. Actually, the truth is, without immigration, the UK economy would be toast. If the Tories doubled the number of (legal) immigrants in few years, it's because they know at least one thing or two about the UK economy.

Electoral promises to allure the masses are one thing, responsible policies, to keep the economy growing, are a completely different thing.

 

 

"Keep the economy going".  Nonsense.  Businesses instead of innovating have relied on cheap labour instead.  Unless those migrants are earning £40k per year then they are a drain on the economy.   Not the GDP figure (which is all the politicians care about), but the GDP per capita figure.   When this figure doesn't keep up with inflation then people who live in the UK are poorer.  Not to mention all the problems that number of people bring with them in terms of culture, housing needs, medical needs, transport needs, schooling needs, translation services needs, increased crime needs and it is simply impossible to integrate that number of people 

 

It's a Ponzi scheme.  The more migrants that come the more will be needed.  As the existing population are made poorer due to decreased per capita GDP they are less inclined to have kids, so more migrants needed.   Then the existing migrants get old, so more migrants needed.  And on and on it goes.    About 900,000 net extra people arrived in 2023 and the economy is still stagnant.  Just how useless are the people coming to the UK?          

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, James105 said:

They will fail at stopping illegal immigrants, not just because they are morons (which of course they are),

and on that we are in agreement ( the morons bit ). How did it come to pass that western countries came to be run by idiots?

The illegals would stop coming tomorrow if governments stopped being pussies and actually did something about it.

They have the example of Australia to prove that it can be stopped if they put on big boy pants. Too gutless by far.

[thaibeachlovers]

9 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

However, there does need to be reset and greater focus on attracting immigrants that do have that positive impact on the economy - and, in the case of nursing, haulage catering (and any other industry with a skills shortage) there should be a fast-track system.

To isolate just nursing, it's a nonsense that enough nurses can't be found within the local population. Though the reason nursing stopped being an attractive career is unknown by most it comes down to politics, as usual, which conspired with nursing leaders to make nursing a degree profession, which for most it is not. They took it out of an apprentice style training and made it mandatory university, which automatically made it unavailable to those that make the best nurses. Result, a less suitable nursing workforce, less nurses, and a rocketing cost for healthcare as uni nurses are all registered nurses and cost way more than the enrolled nurses that used to make up the greater part of nursing.

There is no reason for an all registered nursing workforce other than political grandstanding by nursing so called leaders, IMO.

 

BTW, when western countries poach trained nurses from poor countries they deprive those countries of nurses. To my knowledge the Philippines is the only country that produces more nurses than it needs, so they can work overseas and send money back to the Philippines.