EU Sues UK Over Brexit Treaty Breach on Free Movement

[The Cyclist]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Of course it’s not the same Germany as 35 years ago, it reunified on 1990 an event that had huge impacts on Germany.

 

Here comes the Cavalry

 

Sorry, I can only recall scenes of joy and much happiness when Germany initially reunified. To the best of my recollection I cannot recall mass demonstrations in Hamburg calling for a Caliphate or similar.

 

I will take the views of Brits who married Germans and have been living in Germany since ( Some 35 years ) before I listen to you.

 

Now I will heed the very good advice given to me a long time ago " Never argue with an idiot, they will only drag you down to their level, and beat you with years of experience "

 

Goodbye

[candide]

30 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

You keep believing that

 

35 years ago, Germany was a great place, both to visit and live and work. Put your hand on your heart and tell me the same is true today.

 

Every single of those Countries that are / were Net Contributors to the EU ate sliding down the S bend of the toilet.

 

 

The cause of Germany's current economic difficulties is well known. It's its past policy of overly relying on Russian gas and the painful transition to other sources of energy.

[The Cyclist]

7 minutes ago, candide said:

The cause of Germany's current economic difficulties is well known. It's its past policy of overly relying on Russian gas and the painful transition to other sources of energy.

 

If you say so

 

So what then, would be the cause of the French economic difficulties ?
 

1 cause couldn't be the pumping in Trillions of €'s out of the Nations and into the cofferes of the EU, could it ?

[bokningar]

3 hours ago, sungod said:

Freedom of movement?

 

We let anyone in...

Not hard working people from Europe that has settled it seams.

Out screaming from the river to the sea and you can stay.

[Chomper Higgot]

17 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Here comes the Cavalry

 

Sorry, I can only recall scenes of joy and much happiness when Germany initially reunified. To the best of my recollection I cannot recall mass demonstrations in Hamburg calling for a Caliphate or similar.

 

I will take the views of Brits who married Germans and have been living in Germany since ( Some 35 years ) before I listen to you.

 

Now I will heed the very good advice given to me a long time ago " Never argue with an idiot, they will only drag you down to their level, and beat you with years of experience "

 

Goodbye

“I will take the views of Brits who married Germans and have been living in Germany since ( Some 35 years ) before I listen to you.”

 

It’s always handy to have friends to call on.

 

Often too handy.
 

[JonnyF]

14 minutes ago, candide said:

The cause of Germany's current economic difficulties is well known. It's its past policy of overly relying on Russian gas and the painful transition to other sources of energy.

 

Not to mention propping up the rest of the EU.

 

https://www.euronews.com/business/2024/12/09/eu-budget-who-pays-the-most-into-the-eu-and-who-gains-the-most#:~:text=Ten countries are net contributors&text=The countries that contributed more,The Netherlands (€6.3bn)

 

 

Oh , and not being able to complete with Chinese manufacturing. 

 

Oh, and excessive immigration. 

[candide]

12 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

If you say so

 

So what then, would be the cause of the French economic difficulties ?
 

1 cause couldn't be the pumping in Trillions of €'s out of the Nations and into the cofferes of the EU, could it ?

Most countries are still affected by the post-Covid crisis, and UK has not been in a better shape than EU countries after Brexit. In the case of France, it borrowed too much money (this is also not uncommon on both sides of the Channel)

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn02784/

[RayC]

59 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Report the xenophobic posts, instead of throwing a word around that you have no idea of its actual meaning.

 

Xenophobic ? Take a look at the makeup of the EU Parliament and Commission, some might say that would be xenophobic.

 

Trumpet.

 

As you offered some unsolicited advice, I'll reply in kind.

 

Firstly, if you practiced what you peached your words might carry more weight. Secondly, if you make statements which are not supported by data, don't be surprised if you are challenged about their veracity.

[JonnyF]

1 hour ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Report the xenophobic posts, instead of throwing a word around that you have no idea of its actual meaning.

 

Xenophobic ? Take a look at the makeup of the EU Parliament and Commission, some might say that would be xenophobic.

 

Trumpet.

 

Ignore him. He's a race baiter. As soon as he loses an argument he trots out all the usual slurs. 

[The Cyclist]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

 

Ignore him. He's a race baiter. As soon as he loses an argument he trots out all the usual slurs. 

 

Dunno about a race baiter, certainly a master baiter.

 

He lost whatever argument he thought he might have had, when he started chucking the xenophobe bombs.

 

Oblivious to the fact that the policy of EU freedom of movement is in itself xenophobic

 

 

[The Cyclist]

1 hour ago, candide said:

Most countries are still affected by the post-Covid crisis,

 

I hate to point this out, but the decline in Countries like the UK, France, Germany and others started long before Covid, they also started  long before Brexit.

 

The UK's started over 30 years ago.

 

Germany's started with the fall of the Berlin wall and the cost of reunification.

 

France is just a basket case.

 

But they all have 1 thing in common, the formation of the EU which came into force on 1 November 1993

 

Wealth redistribution ( by whichever method ) does not tend to work out too well, look to the former Yugoslavia if you want a recent example.

 

The EU will follow the same road, at some stage.

[RayC]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

 

Ignore him. He's a race baiter. As soon as he loses an argument he trots out all the usual slurs. 

 

Where have I lost this argument? By pointing out the fact that immigration was lower when we were in the EU?

 

As for race baiting. Rich coming from a bloke who endlessly carps on about the problems caused by immigration and doesn't miss an opportunity to rejoice in the misfortune of Europeans. Thinly disguised racism and xenophobia; a nice combination. 

[candide]

18 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

I hate to point this out, but the decline in Countries like the UK, France, Germany and others started long before Covid, they also started  long before Brexit.

 

The UK's started over 30 years ago.

 

Germany's started with the fall of the Berlin wall and the cost of reunification.

 

France is just a basket case.

 

But they all have 1 thing in common, the formation of the EU which came into force on 1 November 1993

 

Wealth redistribution ( by whichever method ) does not tend to work out too well, look to the former Yugoslavia if you want a recent example.

 

The EU will follow the same road, at some stage.

I know. My point was that UK is not faring better outside the EU than when it was part of it.

 

For most European countries, the decline probably started after the oil crisis in the 70s.

 

What is your evidence of EU countries' economy getting worse because of the formation of the EU?

[The Cyclist]

3 minutes ago, RayC said:

Where have I lost this argument? By pointing out the fact that immigration was lower when we were in the EU?

 

Of course it was lower, 6.5 million + Europeans did not have to apply for a visa.

 

That is the official number that applied for settled status / leave to remain, apparently millions more scuttled back to the EU because they did not qualify for settled status / leave to remain.

 

Or perhaps news outlets like the Guardian were making stuff up.

[RayC]

19 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Dunno about a race baiter, certainly a master baiter.

 

He lost whatever argument he thought he might have had, when he started chucking the xenophobe bombs.

 

Oblivious to the fact that the policy of EU freedom of movement is in itself xenophobic

 

 

 

Ho ho ho. Merry Xmas.

 

I'll refresh your memory: You took umbrage and resorted to insults as a result of me having the audacity to point out the fact that immigration to the UK was lower when we were in the EU with uncontrolled immigration from 27 nations, than it is now when we have complete control over our immigration policy.

 

EU freedom of movement, xenophobic? You might as well argue that all nations are therefore xenophobic given that no nation has the same trade arrangements with each and every one of its' partners.

[The Cyclist]

Just now, candide said:

I know. My point was that UK is not faring better outside the EU than when it was part of it.

 

 

That might be because it was

 

1. Opposed then

 

2. Opposed now

 

3 Opposed forever.

 

So it should surprise no-one that the UK has not grasped the benefits of Brexit with both hands, and is struggling to make forward strides.

 

Mealy mouthed Politicians, a shambles of a House of Lords and a Civil Service not fit for purpose. ensured that Brexit would not be a success.

[The Cyclist]

2 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

EU freedom of movement, xenophobic? You might as well argue that all nations are therefore xenophobic given that no nation has the same trade arrangements with each and every one of its' partners.

 

Ahhhh, I see your obvious problem.

 

Trade arrangement ?

 

Perhaps if the Common Market ( Trade arrangement ) had not morphed into a Political and Monetary Union called the EU, we would not be having this discussion.

 

The UK's membership of CPTTP became active yesterday. By some strange logic, freedom of movement is not part of the package.

 

 

[RayC]

12 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Of course it was lower, 6.5 million + Europeans did not have to apply for a visa.

 

That is the official number that applied for settled status / leave to remain, apparently millions more scuttled back to the EU because they did not qualify for settled status / leave to remain.

 

Or perhaps news outlets like the Guardian were making stuff up.

 

"For the first time ever there are seven million migrant workers in Britain's job market. Figures released by the ONS this morning show that more than one in five jobs in Britain is now filled by someone born overseas – despite a fall in EU workers since Brexit."

 

Perhaps news outlets such as The Spectator are reporting falsely?

[JonnyF]

22 minutes ago, RayC said:

As for race baiting. Rich coming from a bloke who endlessly carps on about the problems caused by immigration and doesn't miss an opportunity to rejoice in the misfortune of Europeans. Thinly disguised racism and xenophobia; a nice combination. 

 

True to form 😃.

[The Cyclist]

1 minute ago, RayC said:

For the first time ever there are seven million migrant workers in Britain's job market.

 

Again, I see your issue

 

I have no problem with people applying for a Visa and coming to work in the UK. I do have a problem with free movement of people.

 

You confuse controlled migration through Visa's and unfettered migration through freedom of movement.

 

It is something that people who are described as Lefties often get confused about.

[RayC]

1 minute ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Ahhhh, I see your obvious problem.

 

Trade arrangement ?

 

Perhaps if the Common Market ( Trade arrangement ) had not morphed into a Political and Monetary Union called the EU, we would not be having this discussion.

 

The UK's membership of CPTTP became active yesterday. By some strange logic, freedom of movement is not part of the package.

 

 

 

No obvious problem. Applying xenophobia in its' broadest sense as you have can take many forms.

 

You accuse the EU of being xenophobic because it does not offer the same rights of access to non-EU workers as it does to EU workers. If that is labelled xenophobic then what about the following: As the UK is now part of CPTTP, the majority of goods from Chile will enter the UK tariff-free, while those from India, which is not part of CPTTP, will attract tariffs of up to 12%. Isn't that just as much a form of xenophobia?

 

I don't know why you were expecting freedom of movement to be part of the CPTTP? It's not immediately apparent how such an arrangement would benefit either the UK or existing CPTTP members such as, say, Brunei.

[RayC]

20 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

True to form 😃.

 

Thanks. I do try to stick to the facts.

[RayC]

37 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Again, I see your issue

 

I have no problem with people applying for a Visa and coming to work in the UK. I do have a problem with free movement of people.

 

You confuse controlled migration through Visa's and unfettered migration through freedom of movement.

 

It is something that people who are described as Lefties often get confused about.

 

There is no issue and I am not confusing anything.

 

As an individual, you are obviously perfectly entitled "to have a problem with freedom of movement", but the fact still remains that immigration to the UK today is higher than it was when the UK was in the EU.

 

Perhaps one reason for this is that many of the seasonal/ part-time jobs were filled by workers from the EU, who had no desire to 'immigrate' to the UK permanently but were happy to work here on a temporary, transient basis. This arrangement was beneficial for both the employer and the worker and was an example of the free market 'invisible hand' at work.

 

These are possibilities that those who are often described as 'right wing' seem unable to grasp.

[candide]

54 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

That might be because it was

 

1. Opposed then

 

2. Opposed now

 

3 Opposed forever.

 

So it should surprise no-one that the UK has not grasped the benefits of Brexit with both hands, and is struggling to make forward strides.

 

Mealy mouthed Politicians, a shambles of a House of Lords and a Civil Service not fit for purpose. ensured that Brexit would not be a success.

It looks like a lame excuse...

[mokwit]

11 hours ago, Social Media said:

extended family members

Immediate family members, OK, but extended family members means a whole East European village.

[JonnyF]

28 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

Thanks. I do try to stick to the facts.

 

Pretty much the opposite of what you do 😆.

 

You completely ignore the arguments put forward and throw out lazy, generic slurs like bigot, racist, xenophobe etc.

 

[steve187]

7 hours ago, soalbundy said:

Can't come soon enough. I'm sure most people in the UK now see Brexit was a mistake.

speak for yourself only, any proof of your sure

[scottiejohn]

1 hour ago, RayC said:

but the fact still remains that immigration to the UK today is higher than it was when the UK was in the EU.

Were "immigrants" coming from  EU countries included in those figures pre Brexit?

[georgegeorgia]

4 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

Were "immigrants" coming from  EU countries included in those figures?

Scottie ,there's no need for racism.

Immigration is welcome to the UK and thankyou for accepting these poor people into your country 

I say MORE of them should be made welcome !!!

[RayC]

2 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

 

That might be because it was

 

1. Opposed then

 

2. Opposed now

 

3 Opposed forever.

 

So it should surprise no-one that the UK has not grasped the benefits of Brexit with both hands, and is struggling to make forward strides.

 

Mealy mouthed Politicians, a shambles of a House of Lords and a Civil Service not fit for purpose. ensured that Brexit would not be a success.

 

You forgot the EU.

 

And there we have it. Always someone else's fault. 

 

No accountability or responsibility accepted by Brexiters for the failure of Brexit to date.  It was ever thus.