Thailand as home, roaming the world tax free - the pipe dream

[ronnie50]

15 hours ago, Everyman said:

 

Part of the problem is that the thai tax code is too primitive to exploit these kinds of clever loopholes - it doesn’t have them. It even taxes capital gains as normal income. 

Interesting about capital gains. In my home country, if you are non-resident, interest earned on term bank deposits is not taxed at source there. It's by design - national legislation - because it's what they consider a benign 'armslength' transaction in which the non-resident had no activity. So Thailand shouldn't have any right to tax it either - or maybe they would - we'll find out at some point.. 

[roquefort]

3 hours ago, newbee2022 said:

As far as I know EU members have to pay taxes to their home countries wherever they live.

Probably best not to comment unless you know what you're talking about.

[jwest10]

18 hours ago, ronnie50 said:

Not naive, but you're right, I should have said "wealthier expats" or "more well-off expats". It's that upper-middle-class expat I was thinking about - the 4-5 million baht a year types. The yacht reference was a jibe.

Most I am sure would not get this amount and maybe just over  550K and may just go over it.
And  many have no rent to pay as the homes all paid for, which helps a little.

In any case what new forms?

[Airalee]

1 hour ago, ronnie50 said:

Some posters above say there are lots of 6 month leases available. That's never been my experience. But maybe.

it’s not a “maybe”
 

Go to Facebook market place and do a search for “6 month” there are places.

 

Look on hipflat.  There are places.

 

Talk to agents.  They will have no problem finding you a 6 month lease.

 

or…just make an offer on one of the thousands and thousands of empty units that are asking for 12 months and you may find an owner who is willing to take 6 months just to get a warm body in there as it’s better than sitting empty.

 

FWIW….I’m currently on a 2 month lease in Da Nang and own my condo in BKK.

[Airalee]

1 hour ago, ronnie50 said:

Interesting about capital gains. In my home country, if you are non-resident, interest earned on term bank deposits is not taxed at source there. It's by design - national legislation - because it's what they consider a benign 'armslength' transaction in which the non-resident had no activity. So Thailand shouldn't have any right to tax it either - or maybe they would - we'll find out at some point.. 

this should clear things up a bit

 

https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/thailand/individual/income-determination

[newbee2022]

3 hours ago, roquefort said:

Probably best not to comment unless you know what you're talking about.

Better for you to shut your gutter if you don't have anything to say.

[MartinBangkok]

8 hours ago, Wake Up1 said:

He could have gotten the 10 year LTR visa for 50,000 baht and not paid any taxes in Thailand for worldwide income. Two hours to spare- Nice story. 😊

He wanted the LTR,but the turnover of his Foreign employer wasn't high enough.

[ukrules]

8 hours ago, john donson said:

so people here are willing to sign and pay long leases of 12 months and be here less then 6? and do the same in other countries?

 

Yes, I currently have two leases on the go in different countries.

 

[Everyman]

13 hours ago, Wake Up1 said:

He could have gotten the 10 year LTR visa for 50,000 baht and not paid any taxes in Thailand for worldwide income. Two hours to spare- Nice story. 😊

 

Nobody pays taxes to Thailand on worldwide income because Thailand doesn’t do that. 
 

What it does have is mouthy officials who love to announce things that never happen. And foreigners that believe them for some reason. 

[digital]

20 hours ago, Airalee said:

this should clear things up a bit

 

https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/thailand/individual/income-determination

 

"Capital gains and investment income earned by a resident from sources outside Thailand are not taxable unless remitted to Thailand in the year of receipt."

 

I thought this may have been out of date but its dated 16 October 2024 and mentions Paw 162 & 163.

[Airalee]

3 hours ago, digital said:

 

"Capital gains and investment income earned by a resident from sources outside Thailand are not taxable unless remitted to Thailand in the year of receipt."

 

I thought this may have been out of date but its dated 16 October 2024 and mentions Paw 162 & 163.

Yeah…they’re still doing the “remitted” thing but sometimes one might have to remit in the same year.

 

My biggest concern is being blindsided with the taxation of all income irrespective of remittance.  One never knows how quickly that can be enacted.   Things seem to change fast here sometimes (and then change back).  That’s why I have preemptively left the country for a while.

 

I’t would be nice if the gov could just be more open about it so we don’t have to depend on all of our own guesses.

[roquefort]

On 12/24/2024 at 2:46 PM, newbee2022 said:

Better for you to shut your gutter if you don't have anything to say.

Since sarcasm clearly goes straight over your head, I'll say that your comment is totally wrong.

 

EU members do not pay taxes to their home countries wherever they live. The USA is the only country in the world that taxes its citizens on the basis of nationality, not residence.

[newbee2022]

29 minutes ago, roquefort said:

Since sarcasm clearly goes straight over your head, I'll say that your comment is totally wrong.

 

EU members do not pay taxes to their home countries wherever they live. The USA is the only country in the world that taxes its citizens on the basis of nationality, not residence.

Your comment is wrong. I see you're not an EU member.

 So you got limited knowledge. 

[Hummin]

The tax rules for transferred income is clear and in place already, it is when they start taxing everything you transfers, including, taxed savings and pension it starts being muddy. Even worse tax on transfers for investing in Thailand.

[BKK8]

On 12/22/2024 at 3:00 PM, ronnie50 said:

Okay, this is just for fun.

 

We don’t know how/if income taxes will be applied to foreigners, and while it probably wouldn’t be a huge hit to most of us, a Thai tax on ‘global income’ for very wealthy expats who’ve lived here for years, precisely because they’ve avoided paying income tax, would be a great concern.

 

So, they could probably afford to move around each year while still making Thailand their main digs, but not long enough to pay tax here.

 

Example – using the best weather months to meet the 179 day max stay in Thailand (to avoid tax)

 

January through April – Thailand – 120 days

May through October (29^th) – 182 days (summer in either Canada, Japan, Portugal, Spain, etc. – all countries where tax residency doesn’t kick in until 183 days or more – Japan is longer/different).

October 30 to November 8, stopping in one of the other countries above (en route back to Thailand) – 10 days

November 8 through December 31 – Thailand – a final 53 days

(then repeat)

……………………..

I think the math is right. Again – just for fun – and yes, for the majority of expats that don’t have existing homes in these other places, the costs of spending half a year away wouldn’t make any economic sense. But, if you were one of those uber wealthy above (maybe you are), how would you do it? On your yacht?

 

isn't november 8 through december 31  54 days ?

[ronnie50]

On 12/24/2024 at 12:41 PM, Airalee said:

this should clear things up a bit

 

https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/thailand/individual/income-determination

Thanks for sharing the PWC link. I've read through it before. Not clear if it's up to date though. Also, I still don't understand how the Thai tax authorities would be able to determine if I'm just transfering foreign currency from a passive savings account, or whether it's interest earned from such an account or otherwise. Do they ask to see all your overseas bank account statements?

 

Anyway, we're getting off topic. My fault.

[Airalee]

1 hour ago, ronnie50 said:

Thanks for sharing the PWC link. I've read through it before. Not clear if it's up to date though. Also, I still don't understand how the Thai tax authorities would be able to determine if I'm just transfering foreign currency from a passive savings account, or whether it's interest earned from such an account or otherwise. Do they ask to see all your overseas bank account statements?

 

Anyway, we're getting off topic. My fault.

I really have no idea.  I lived off cash in my savings account for years and am more concerned now with what might happen but has not happened yet which is tax on all income and not just what is remitted as I have sold some stock and also will have to start taking distributions from an inherited IRA that I have no intention of spending.

[MartinBangkok]

9 hours ago, newbee2022 said:

Your comment is wrong. I see you're not an EU member.

 So you got limited knowledge. 

Sorry to say, but you are wrong @newbee2022

EU countries do not consider you a tax resident after you have moved out and stayed outside for a certain period. In my case 3 years.

[newbee2022]

11 hours ago, MartinBangkok said:

Sorry to say, but you are wrong @newbee2022

EU countries do not consider you a tax resident after you have moved out and stayed outside for a certain period. In my case 3 years.

I've to disappoint you. You're wrong. You have indeed to pay taxes in your home country, because the source of income (eg pension) is generated there. (since 2010)

[MartinBangkok]

12 hours ago, newbee2022 said:

I've to disappoint you. You're wrong. You have indeed to pay taxes in your home country, because the source of income (eg pension) is generated there. (since 2010)

Jesus.

 

You should stop commenting. You haven't got a clue.

[newbee2022]

6 minutes ago, MartinBangkok said:

Jesus.

 

You should stop commenting. You haven't got a clue.

...and where come Jesus into this game?

If you don't have the slightest knowledge... don't answer 🙏

[Will B Good]

On 12/26/2024 at 7:15 PM, MartinBangkok said:

Sorry to say, but you are wrong @newbee2022

EU countries do not consider you a tax resident after you have moved out and stayed outside for a certain period. In my case 3 years.

 

You are always a tax resident of where you are domiciled and pay income tax in that country on income earned in that country........ regardless of how long you are out of the country.

 

You may avoid tax on foreign income after a number of years, if you can show you are no longer a resident.

[Everyman]

3 hours ago, Will B Good said:

 

You are always a tax resident of where you are domiciled and pay income tax in that country on income earned in that country........ regardless of how long you are out of the country.

 

You may avoid tax on foreign income after a number of years, if you can show you are no longer a resident.

 

As much as people complain about the American system, if you make under six figures in USD and live outside the US you don’t pay any taxes to America unless you are self employed. And then, it’s social security which you conceivably get some benefit for some day.

 

But this requires that Americans understand the tax system and file the right paperwork which many are strongly averse to, it seems. 

[MartinBangkok]

6 hours ago, Will B Good said:

 

You are always a tax resident of where you are domiciled and pay income tax in that country on income earned in that country........ regardless of how long you are out of the country.

 

You may avoid tax on foreign income after a number of years, if you can show you are no longer a resident.

Completely wrong in your first paragraph. Correct in your second paragraph.

 

PS: Your are obviously blind to your own contradiction here. (Paragraph one versus two)

[Will B Good]

6 hours ago, MartinBangkok said:

Completely wrong in your first paragraph. Correct in your second paragraph.

 

PS: Your are obviously blind to your own contradiction here. (Paragraph one versus two)

 

What is the contradiction?

[ronnie50]

1 hour ago, Will B Good said:

 

What is the contradiction?

Maybe it's the word 'tax resident' - I know what you mean though, you must pay taxes at source if it was earned in your country of nationality.  However, I'm not considered a tax resident of my country(ies) for example.. but if I earned money there, regardless of where I am resident, they'd tax it at source.

[Will B Good]

1 minute ago, ronnie50 said:

Maybe it's the word 'tax resident' - I know what you mean though, you must pay taxes at source if it was earned in your country of nationality.  However, I'm not considered a tax resident of my country(ies) for example.. but if I earned money there, regardless of where I am resident, they'd tax it at source.

 

Thanks...that is what i understand the situation to be.

 

So if I reside abroad and I'm no longer resident in the UK....I still pay UK taxes on any income arising in the UK....those taxes cannot be avoided.

[ronnie50]

10 hours ago, Everyman said:

 

if you make under six figures in USD and live outside the US you don’t pay any taxes to America

I'm not American, but that is indeed news to me. So you're saying Americans working abroad are exempt from taxation up to USD 99,000 per year? (provided they do some extra paperwork?). Wouldn't that be kind of common knowledge?

[ronnie50]

7 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

 

Thanks...that is what i understand the situation to be.

 

So if I reside abroad and I'm no longer resident in the UK....I still pay UK taxes on any income arising in the UK....those taxes cannot be avoided.

As far as I understand it, yes. Curious if you (or others) are getting the UK State Pension and, if so, does UK tax it at source? I read somewhere they don't - but it means filing tax returns each year (and paying back the tax). You or anyone know for sure?

[Will B Good]

5 minutes ago, ronnie50 said:

As far as I understand it, yes. Curious if you (or others) are getting the UK State Pension and, if so, does UK tax it at source? I read somewhere they don't - but it means filing tax returns each year (and paying back the tax). You or anyone know for sure?

 

I receive a State pension and it's not taxed at source, but is classed as income so counts toward your personal allowance.

 

I have a government pension which is taxed at source.

 

I also have rental income and a company pension..... so have to complete a tax return each year anyway.