Exploration of the Virgin Birth That Maybe Wasn’t

[OneMoreFarang]

It's amazing that some people still talk about this nonsense 2000 years after it supposedly happened.

 

[Plan B]

[NoDisplayName]

22 hours ago, CHdiver said:

Just for the record, yes a woman can get pregnant without penetration as long as the semen is placed inside her vagina. 

 

That is the wrong orifice.  The conception occurred through the ear per Psalm 45:10 as she "inclined her ear," thus retaining virginity.

[CygnusX1]

1 hour ago, George Aylesham said:

She obviously got pregnant from sitting on a lavatory seat.

There were no such things as lavatories then. Oh? Well she must have got it in the traditional way then.

Let’s just think of the technology available 2,000 years ago - perhaps a small pottery dish, a hollow reed, and a human male happy to commit the sin of Onan, and now use your imagination!

 

Or maybe we’re only arguing over the strict definition of the word ‘virgin’.

[Hummin]

The biblical meaning of Virgin

 

Virgin in this context carries the idea of the people of God being faithful to one God in contrast to believing in many gods. Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. (Matt. 1:23).

 

Source: Bible house of grace 

[DD86]

22 hours ago, KannikaP said:

Like The Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, Henry VIII, the Irish problem etc etc.

You forgot the flat earth.

[Dirk Z]

And after nine months Mary gives birth to the baby. Congratulations Mary, what a lovely girl!

[Tippaporn]

On 12/24/2024 at 8:18 AM, soalbundy said:

On 12/24/2024 at 4:05 AM, rattlesnake said:

It's called respect.

More like insanity, why, in this day and age, is a virgin birth even considered as a possibility?

 

You seem to miss @rattlesnake's point of respect.  For surely you hold beliefs that others would find to be similarly insane and for which you could be ridiculed for believing in.  So, respect.  Respect for an individual no matter what they believe.  Put the other's shoe on your foot and you'll easily understand Rattles' post.

 

I guarantee that if it were possible to list each and every belief that anyone holds and then attempt to reconcile the totality of one's beliefs, fitting them all together in order to  paint a unified, holistic picture, you would find that the picture created would be strange indeed and make very little sense.  You would marvel just at the sheer quantity of outright contradictions that you would find, let alone the number of beliefs that utterly fail if put to the test of logic.

[PuiPuiHarry]

1) A non-married woman pregnant in these days, in very orthodox Judaism...  normally a man would marry her and declare the child to be his... If not.. same as in present woman's paradise like Iran of Afghanistan: would be stoned/killed, Therefore: Not realistic.

2) In the Roman Empire counting the number of people happened several times, for one and one reason only: to know how much tax could be levied. So a person, who want to escape that, and even go to another "state" (from Galilee to  Judea...) would be seen as a tax escaper.

3) A star ( or comet) standing still above Betlehem ? Something on a distance of million(s) of kms ? Where the nonsense comes from ?

4) Three kings/wise persons, travelling from their origin to Bethlehem, on camel back.. would need several months if not longer, seen a distance of a 2000 km and a travel speed of maybe 20 km/day.

5) the murder of all children under 2 years on order of king Herodus the Great, who died somewhere 7-2 Y BC ?  No any historic evidence, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_the_Innocents

The story of the massacre is found in no gospel other than Matthew, nor is it mentioned in the surviving works of Nicolaus of Damascus (who was a personal friend of Herod the Great), nor in Josephus's Antiquities of the Jews, despite his recording many of Herod's misdeeds, including the murder of three of his own sons.

[soalbundy]

22 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

 

You seem to miss @rattlesnake's point of respect.  For surely you hold beliefs that others would find to be similarly insane and for which you could be ridiculed for believing in.  So, respect.  Respect for an individual no matter what they believe.  Put the other's shoe on your foot and you'll easily understand Rattles' post.

 

I guarantee that if it were possible to list each and every belief that anyone holds and then attempt to reconcile the totality of one's beliefs, fitting them all together in order to  paint a unified, holistic picture, you would find that the picture created would be strange indeed and make very little sense.  You would marvel just at the sheer quantity of outright contradictions that you would find, let alone the number of beliefs that utterly fail if put to the test of logic.

Yes I can agree with that but only to a certain extent, 2+2 still makes 4, if someone says it makes 5 I will call them out on it, I will also ridicule flat earthers because it goes against known knowledge. In ancient Greece an illegitimate man would call himself son of Zeus, the virgin Mary runs on the same lines, in fact the virgin Mary myth is a relatively new invention and became really popular during the Victorian era, only one of the books in the bible mentions the virgin Mary and that is thought to mean maiden or young woman and mistakenly translated as virgin.

[Neall Calvert]

People seem poorly informed on the subject of DNA. One most likely cannot create a person manifesting the kind of mastery of life that Jesus exemplified with genes from a Roman soldier. I am told that Jesus had 95% effective DNA (there's one molecule of DNA in each of the 100 trillion cells of the body), while most of us have about 35% effective DNA.

The other thing: It is known, from sources such as the Italian bible scholar Mauro Biglino and sources of galactic information such as Pleiadians (Jesus is the master of the Milky Way galaxy, not just Earth), that angels were not 'flighty beings with wings', rather human-looking entities with great power that walked around on Earth, that could emanate light energy from their hands, and appear and disappear at will (they were actually Pleiadians, who closely resemble humans, but live in the 7th dimension: highly advanced spiritual beings who can be both in the Pleiades and here at the same time).

Pleiadians were the ones who upgraded the human DNA in the first place to move us to the next level above the near-animal (took place a long time back, in the so-called 'Garden of Eden'). The angel Gabriel may have been the one with the DNA quality needed to create a being like Jesus, thus he would have impregnated Mary (in the usual way), leaving Joseph puzzled when she became pregnant. There's many levels to consider, for a being like Jesus to be born.

[BusyB]

On 12/24/2024 at 12:14 AM, Hervey Bay said:

I once read that in the Aramaic language, in which some of the bible was written (or perhaps simply the language spoken by many in biblical times), the word "virgin" simply meant a woman who had never previously had a baby.

 

Aside from that, there are pre-biblical myths about virgin births. It was certainly not exclusively Jesus.

 

 

 

Dozens of 'em. The same applies to making women out of mens' bits like ribs.

 

This is really interesting:

 

https://gsgriffin.com/2016/12/08/other-gods-born-to-virgins-on-december-25-before-jesus-christ/

 

[Hummin]

On 12/25/2024 at 5:40 PM, Tippaporn said:

 

You seem to miss @rattlesnake's point of respect.  For surely you hold beliefs that others would find to be similarly insane and for which you could be ridiculed for believing in.  So, respect.  Respect for an individual no matter what they believe.  Put the other's shoe on your foot and you'll easily understand Rattles' post.

 

I guarantee that if it were possible to list each and every belief that anyone holds and then attempt to reconcile the totality of one's beliefs, fitting them all together in order to  paint a unified, holistic picture, you would find that the picture created would be strange indeed and make very little sense.  You would marvel just at the sheer quantity of outright contradictions that you would find, let alone the number of beliefs that utterly fail if put to the test of logic.

Wise word, very wise word, considering our previously talks about beliefs and beliefs systems. 

 

Logic is an easy word to pronounce, but practice logics, or common sense, seems to be a different matter for most

[Will B Good]

On 12/27/2024 at 1:31 PM, Neall Calvert said:

People seem poorly informed on the subject of DNA. One most likely cannot create a person manifesting the kind of mastery of life that Jesus exemplified with genes from a Roman soldier. I am told that Jesus had 95% effective DNA (there's one molecule of DNA in each of the 100 trillion cells of the body), while most of us have about 35% effective DNA.

The other thing: It is known, from sources such as the Italian bible scholar Mauro Biglino and sources of galactic information such as Pleiadians (Jesus is the master of the Milky Way galaxy, not just Earth), that angels were not 'flighty beings with wings', rather human-looking entities with great power that walked around on Earth, that could emanate light energy from their hands, and appear and disappear at will (they were actually Pleiadians, who closely resemble humans, but live in the 7th dimension: highly advanced spiritual beings who can be both in the Pleiades and here at the same time).

Pleiadians were the ones who upgraded the human DNA in the first place to move us to the next level above the near-animal (took place a long time back, in the so-called 'Garden of Eden'). The angel Gabriel may have been the one with the DNA quality needed to create a being like Jesus, thus he would have impregnated Mary (in the usual way), leaving Joseph puzzled when she became pregnant. There's many levels to consider, for a being like Jesus to be born.

 

Can't believe a sentient being can write such utter drivel...who the hell brought you up?

[Tippaporn]

7 hours ago, Hummin said:

Wise word, very wise word, considering our previously talks about beliefs and beliefs systems. 

 

Logic is an easy word to pronounce, but practice logics, or common sense, seems to be a different matter for most

 

Beliefs trump logic, or rational thought, most every time.  Most do not understand what beliefs are.  Nor do they understand their effects.  If they were to even grant that they have effects in the first place.

[Tippaporn]

On 12/26/2024 at 4:47 PM, soalbundy said:

Yes I can agree with that but only to a certain extent, 2+2 still makes 4, if someone says it makes 5 I will call them out on it, I will also ridicule flat earthers because it goes against known knowledge.

 

As long as you accept being ridiculed by others for what you believe then go ahead and do so.  The old adage, those who live in glass houses should not throw stones, applies here.  Or another well known truism, what comes around goes around.  Just don't complain when you're the one being harshly ridiculed.  And demeaned.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/23/2024 at 11:04 PM, KannikaP said:

Like The Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, Henry VIII, the Irish problem etc etc.

All of which had nothing to do with the message that the Christ brought. Christianity the religion was used by the powerful to control the masses, and had little to do with the teachings of Jesus.

[thaibeachlovers]

10 hours ago, Will B Good said:

 

Can't believe a sentient being can write such utter drivel...who the hell brought you up?

IMO you are out of line for that insult. People are entitled to believe anything they want, without being lambasted by an anonymous poster.

 

In a society where some actually believe that a boy can become a real girl it's not that far out. If one can believe that people driving ICE cars are making the temperature rise, one can believe in anything.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

Beliefs trump logic, or rational thought, most every time. 

I look at the world as it is, and I doubt there is any rational thought being applied to the way humans exist in it.

 

There is no way a rational species could have an election between the 2 on offer for the recent US farce.

That's only one example of thousands how barking humanity has become. The only species capable of creating cities, flying to the moon, or inventing an AI, yet we behave as if we emerged from the cave yesterday.

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, BusyB said:

 

Dozens of 'em. The same applies to making women out of mens' bits like ribs.

 

This is really interesting:

 

https://gsgriffin.com/2016/12/08/other-gods-born-to-virgins-on-december-25-before-jesus-christ/

 

It's well known by those who's lives don't revolve around social media that Christianity co opted lots of pagan beliefs and rituals. EG Christmas was actually a pagan festival.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/24/2024 at 8:03 PM, CygnusX1 said:

Or maybe we’re only arguing over the strict definition of the word ‘virgin’.

I'd go with that.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/24/2024 at 6:02 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

It's amazing that some people still talk about this nonsense 2000 years after it supposedly happened.

 

It's amazing that some people still come on threads like this and say the same thing they said a dozen times before, while ignoring what it's all about

 

The message the Christ brought is the important thing, not the story of how he was conceived, yet you and your ilk never talk about that.

[soalbundy]

3 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

 

As long as you accept being ridiculed by others for what you believe then go ahead and do so.  The old adage, those who live in glass houses should not throw stones, applies here.  Or another well known truism, what comes around goes around.  Just don't complain when you're the one being harshly ridiculed.  And demeaned.

When one believes something it is admitting one doesn't know, you don't believe you are aware, you know it. As for being demeaned nobody can do that, one can only demean oneself. Criticism is merely the opinion of someone about oneself or ones own opinions. All religious beliefs are opinions and therefore open to criticism, indeed many scientific theories have an unproven basis on which the theory is based, quantum mechanics for example, the equations work but nobody really knows why, as Professor Feynman put it, " If you think you understand quantum mechanics then you haven't understood it". My opinion is that all religions have a kern of truth packaged in myths and distortions pointing to a truth that the mind can't comprehend, Even Buddhism which is more of a philosophy than a religion (much respected by Einstein by the way) has some ridiculous stories woven into it, people need wonders and miracles for metaphysics and religious leaders keep the opium rolling, it's a nice little earner.

[thaibeachlovers]

11 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

it's a nice little earner.

It's always about money. Power too, as they get the best looking groupies.

[scottiejohn]

55 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The message the Christ brought is the important thing,

What message was that?

[Hummin]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It's amazing that some people still come on threads like this and say the same thing they said a dozen times before, while ignoring what it's all about

 

The message the Christ brought is the important thing, not the story of how he was conceived, yet you and your ilk never talk about that.

Whatever Jesus once was, it have become pure politics at once the romans accepted the faith in the years of 300. First Constantine the great and later Theodosius 

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It's amazing that some people still come on threads like this and say the same thing they said a dozen times before, while ignoring what it's all about

 

The message the Christ brought is the important thing, not the story of how he was conceived, yet you and your ilk never talk about that.

 

Should we talk about a story which is full of lies?

Should we talk about a book from which most religious people like some parts and dismiss other parts?

We don't need Christ and religion to live a meaningful life.

 

 

[Will B Good]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO you are out of line for that insult. People are entitled to believe anything they want, without being lambasted by an anonymous poster.

 

In a society where some actually believe that a boy can become a real girl it's not that far out. If one can believe that people driving ICE cars are making the temperature rise, one can believe in anything.

 

Odd....as I have faced no end of 'abuse' for calling out Trump and a liar, a racist and a rapist.......yet I say someone posts drivel and you are all upset on their behalf.......whatevs.

[BusyB]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It's well known by those who's lives don't revolve around social media that Christianity co opted lots of pagan beliefs and rituals. EG Christmas was actually a pagan festival.

 

Indeed 🤣 

[Tippaporn]

On 12/30/2024 at 8:10 AM, soalbundy said:

When one believes something it is admitting one doesn't know, you don't believe you are aware, you know it. As for being demeaned nobody can do that, one can only demean oneself. Criticism is merely the opinion of someone about oneself or ones own opinions. All religious beliefs are opinions and therefore open to criticism, indeed many scientific theories have an unproven basis on which the theory is based, quantum mechanics for example, the equations work but nobody really knows why, as Professor Feynman put it, " If you think you understand quantum mechanics then you haven't understood it". My opinion is that all religions have a kern of truth packaged in myths and distortions pointing to a truth that the mind can't comprehend, Even Buddhism which is more of a philosophy than a religion (much respected by Einstein by the way) has some ridiculous stories woven into it, people need wonders and miracles for metaphysics and religious leaders keep the opium rolling, it's a nice little earner.

 

I'd comment but this topic matter would take us a long way from the topic subject matter of the OP.  Needs to be it's own separate thread.  Something like the God thread but with religion not at all being the focal point.