Britain’s Sharia Courts and the Challenge of Religious Freedom

[brewsterbudgen]

2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

I gave you facts but you are denying them and standing with the abusers obviously. Links to evidence already supplied throughout the topic

 

 

 

Yes, I'm denying them because they are not 'facts'.  You should try to get factual information from reputable sources not extreme websites.

[Bkk Brian]

8 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

 

Yes, I'm denying them because they are not 'facts'.  You should try to get factual information from reputable sources not extreme websites.

What extreme websites? Since when has the Times and sunday times become extreme, oh got it, when you want to ignore the facts, how about the BBC, ignore it again because its extreme. 

 

Your admission to denying the facts and the subsequent abuse these women and children go through puts you in the same league as the perpetrators. The Sharia court decisions.

 

 

[brewsterbudgen]

24 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

What extreme websites? Since when has the Times and sunday times become extreme, oh got it, when you want to ignore the facts, how about the BBC, ignore it again because its extreme. 

 

Your admission to denying the facts and the subsequent abuse these women and children go through puts you in the same league as the perpetrators. The Sharia court decisions.

 

 

 

Apologies if I missed them, but can you repost the Times and Sunday Times links about Sharia courts.  

[Bkk Brian]

7 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

 

Apologies if I missed them, but can you repost the Times and Sunday Times links about Sharia courts.  

You can scroll back in the topic yourself to the links, posted on here including the publication mentioned in your post. It would be assumed you'd already done that before denying the facts of the abuses that are handed out by the courts. 

 

34 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

 

Yes, I'm denying them because they are not 'facts'.  You should try to get factual information from reputable sources not extreme websites.

 

[brewsterbudgen]

14 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

You can scroll back in the topic yourself to the links, posted on here including the publication mentioned in your post. It would be assumed you'd already done that before denying the facts of the abuses that are handed out by the courts. 

 

 

 

I did. I couldn't find the links you were referring to.   

[Bkk Brian]

15 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

 

I did. I couldn't find the links you were referring to.   

No you didn't. Pretty obvious you're dishonesty goes hand in hand with your beliefs

 

 

Here's another from the Times for you:

 

https://archive.ph/JqIU7

 

8 pages in and your still avoiding the facts. shame on you

 

 

[Presnock]

6 hours ago, cjinchiangrai said:

Totally false, the US has never recognized religious courts or non-statute laws.

That is why I said illegal but just like the Chinese police in some areas, illegal but they are stukk there, just like illegal drugs, still widespread...while these things are illegal, they still exist

[brewsterbudgen]

51 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

No you didn't. Pretty obvious you're dishonesty goes hand in hand with your beliefs

 

 

Here's another from the Times for you:

 

https://archive.ph/JqIU7

 

8 pages in and your still avoiding the facts. shame on you

 

 

 

As I said, they're sharia councils not "courts". They only apply to family matters and cannot overrule UK courts.  I'm not Muslim so they don't concern me, nor most of my muslim friends and colleagues.  But I'm not Islamophobic.

[MangoKorat]

3 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Sad to see the Islamophobia on this thread continuing unabated.  🙄

You don't see a difference between Islamaphobia and being disgusted by the actions of some Muslim factions?

 

I would condemn disgusting behaviour by any group or religious sect - as I did against those who rioted in the UK this summer.

 

However, I would remind you that this thread is about Shariah Courts - a facet of the muslim religion. It should not be surprising then, that the behaviour of muslims is discussed.

 

The BBC for example, regularly report on the situation in Afghanistan where women have recently been banned from talking outside their home.  Are they wrong to call out such behaviour?

 

Is the treatment of women and gay people by hardline Islamic sects acceptable?  You cannot fairly state that the calling out of such behaviour is a phobia.

 

Its right that people call it out, its not acceptable - in the UK or anywhere. Men and women of any or no religion and of any sexuality have a right to live their lives free of persecution. They have a right to live freely without being coerced or forced to live according to any religious group claiming to hold authority over them.

 

Relating that to the UK - we are a free society and we will not accept such behaviour. We welcome and accept any religion provided that its practices do not harm the normal life and freedoms of either its or our people.

 

Where we have gone wrong is we have failed to recognise what's been going on in the UK's muslim societies, we have bent and adapted to accomodate them and they have abused that.

 

If calling all of this out is Islamaphobic in your book - so be it but I think most would disagree.

[brewsterbudgen]

4 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

You don't see a difference between Islamaphobia and being disgusted by the actions of some Muslim factions?

 

I would condemn disgusting behaviour by any group or religious sect - as I did against those who rioted in the UK this summer.

 

However, I would remind you that this thread is about Shariah Courts - a facet of the muslim religion. It should not be surprising then, that the behaviour of muslims is discussed.

 

The BBC for example, regularly report on the situation in Afghanistan where women have recently been banned form talking outside their home.  Are they wrong to call out such behaviour?

 

Is the treatment of women and gay people by hardline Islamic sects acceptable?  You cannot fairly state that the calling out of such behaviour is a phobia.

 

Its right that people call it out, its not acceptable - in the UK or anywhere. Men and women of any or no religion and of any sexuality have a right to live their lives free of persecution. They have a right to live freely without being coerced or forced to live according to any religious group claiming to hold authority over them.

 

Relating that to the UK - we are a free society and we will not accept such behaviour. We welcome and accept any religion provided that its practices do not harm the normal life and freedoms of either its or our people.

 

Where we have gone wrong is we have failed to recognise what's been going on in the UK's muslim societies, we have bent and adapted to accomodate them and they have abused that.

 

If calling all of this out is Islamaphobic in your book - so be it but I think most would disagree.

 

You misunderstood my point.  Of course I don't think the treatment of women, gays or sharia punishments carried out in countries like Afghanistan, Iran and even Saudi Arabia is acceptable.  But to somehow imply that that is where the UK is heading is ridiculous and only promoted by Islamophobes like Tommy R, Farage and many on this thread.  

[Bkk Brian]

8 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

 

As I said, they're sharia councils not "courts". They only apply to family matters and cannot overrule UK courts.  I'm not Muslim so they don't concern me, nor most of my muslim friends and colleagues.  But I'm not Islamophobic.

You are trolling, the links very clearly states the facts that you denied, I also suggest you read the OP. I never claimed you are Islamophobic. Who is? Can you name them or just more dishonesty?

[brewsterbudgen]

5 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

You are trolling, the links very clearly states the facts that you denied, I also suggest you read the OP. I never claimed you are Islamophobic. Who is? Can you name them or just more dishonesty?

 

Islamophobia is a fear or hatred of the muslim religion.  To claim the these family councils are somehow overriding UK law and that we're heading for a UK caliphate is Islamophobic in the extreme.  I'm not blaming you particularly although you're the main person backing this premise.  I do call out the extreme right such as many Reform members (Tommy R and Farage being the names most know) who know exactly what they're doing to stir up hatred, just like after the Southport stabbings.  Loathsome creatures.

[The Cyclist]

15 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

As I said, they're sharia councils not "courts"

 

The UK Government disagrees with you

 

https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CDP-2019-0102/CDP-2019-0102.pdf

 

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, brewsterbudgen said:

 

Islamophobia is a fear or hatred of the muslim religion.  To claim the these family councils are somehow overriding UK law and that we're heading for a UK caliphate is Islamophobic in the extreme.  I'm not blaming you particularly although you're the main person backing this premise.  I do call out the extreme right such as many Reform members (Tommy R and Farage being the names most know) who know exactly what they're doing to stir up hatred, just like after the Southport stabbings.  Loathsome creatures.

Have you turned into a high school dictionery? I know what Islamophobia is. So what am I claiming that is not mentioned in the facts presented in the links? Did you even read them or still in denial? The same denial that they were in etreme websites. All I am reading from you is unsubstaniated claims with zero links or basis that attempts to minimizes the abuses going on from the decisions of the courts. Quite disgusting.

[MangoKorat]

3 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

 

You misunderstood my point.  Of course I don't think the treatment of women, gays or sharia punishments carried out in countries like Afghanistan, Iran and even Saudi Arabia is acceptable.  But to somehow imply that that is where the UK is heading is ridiculous and only promoted by Islamophobes like Tommy R, Farage and many on this thread.  

I agree to an extent and I have stated that the behaviour of hardline muslims plays directly into the hands of racists.

 

However there is an old saying - give them an inch and they will take a mile and I'm sorry to admit that in this case its very true.  We granted these people a home and a right to live and work freely in the UK. In doing that, I don't think it was ever anticipated that they would segregate themselves and move their entire society over here. They hardline groups have no intention of integrating.

 

We allow Sharia Courts to exist for example - because they claim to be societal advisers.  As evidenced by the links I posted earlier, they are far from that.

 

I dont' think there is anything more I have to say on the matter except that if you take an overview of the world's troublespots, the vast majority of them have a common denominator - Islam.  Even in totally muslim societies, they fight amongst themselves - hardline groups seek to impose their brand of islam on others. Even Thailand does not escape that phenomenon.

[MangoKorat]

14 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

To claim the these family councils are somehow overriding UK law

Have you read the links I posted?

 

The UK needs to take action now.

 

I would point out that I have no time at all for Robinson, Reform or Farage but I repeat, the actions of these Sharia Courts plays directly into their hands.

 

They call themselves 'courts' by the way and state that they do not recognise UK law - read the accounts contained within links.

[Social Media]

After a number of unsubstaniated claims @brewsterbudgen, your most recent post containing the same has been removed. Any further will go the same way & a warning issued if you are going to keep making inflammatory remarks about other members and anyone that disagrees with Sharia courts in the UK as an islamaphobic. The links already provided are from credible sources for your information. The topic of the thread being:

 

Britain’s Sharia Courts and the Challenge of Religious Freedom

[simple1]

2 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

 

The UK Government disagrees with you

 

https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CDP-2019-0102/CDP-2019-0102.pdf

 

 

Did you read the content of your link? e.g.

 

 

Sharia councils have no official legal or constitutional role in the UK. Their work consists primarily of adjudicating on religious divorces, usually at the request of women. They may also give verdicts on other aspects of day-today life, for example on Sharia-compliant finance or on halal food.4

 

It seems some of these Councils /Courts exceed their remit, Councils exceeding their remit HMG need to remove the decision maker /  makers by enacting legislation. IMO such legislation is also well past due for Cannon Law, Jewish religious law and so on.

 

I have observed the successful outcome for Muslim women requesting divorce in Thailand. Accordingly it's a matter of appointing the 'right' people, not those pandering to prejudices. .

[The Cyclist]

Just now, simple1 said:

Did you read the content of your link? e.g.

 

 

Sharia councils have no official legal or constitutional role in the UK.

 

Another strawman or is it an educational thing ?

 

I never mentioned anything about official legal or constitutional role.

 

I posted the link to show another poster that the UK Gov considers Sharia Councils and Sharia Courts,  to be one and the same.

Feel free to come back when you sort your issue out.

 

[MangoKorat]

There are a lot of people commenting on this thread who rely on what they read and reports they've seen. I doubt those people have any direct knowledge of how muslim society in the UK operates.

 

There is a lot that goes on in British muslim society that is closed off to most.  I suggest that some commentators speak to a police officer who operates in a largely muslim area before trying to make little of the authority of Sharia Courts. and the other muslim 'institutions' that exist.

 

Ask that officer about the illegal banks, the unlicenced tour operators, money transfer services that don't report transactions, unrecognised lawyers etc. that exist alongside the illegal schools and these 'Sharia Courts'.

 

It is this 'creating' of an 'islamic society' within the UK with parallel institutions and the failure to recognise the paramount authority of British institutions that fuels the racists.

 

Further, we do not live in the 'dark ages' - women's rights in the UK have come a long way in the last 50 years.  Reasonable British people (including reasonable muslims) accept equal women's rights readily. Hardline Islamist muslim males do not.

 

Objecting to all of that is in no way racist. It is illegal behaviour and it should be stamped out. They must abide by the laws of the UK, there is no place for their 'parallel society'. However, criticise them and you are very likely to find yourself prosecuted for 'racism' and hate speech -  Just as those here cry 'islamaphobia'.

[MangoKorat]

5 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Yes, I'm denying them because they are not 'facts'.  You should try to get factual information from reputable sources not extreme websites.

Why should he?  Would you be persuaded if he did? You appear to have failed to read the testimonies given by muslim women to the British parliamentary committee investigating Sharia Courts. Either that or you have ignored them because they don't support your point of view.