Breaker box look correct?

[SailingHome]

I've never seen one like this just one strip at the top. No buses for hot and neutral is that correct? Is this for an RV or common here? New Cir.2021

[bearded_bluto]

I see a neutral bar on top and a ground bar on left.  Use multimeter to be sure.  I'm no expert, but the wire looks too small for your main breaker 50A and the 32A one. Very colorful. Looks like a ouchy or soon to be funeral to me.

[Crossy]

This ^^^ 

 

BUT!!!

 

The bar to the left of the incoming breaker should be the NEUTRAL.

 

The bar at the top which is bolted to the case should be the EARTH/GROUND.

 

Wire sizes need to be checked.

 

I also note that there is no earth-leakage protection (as a minimum an RCBO incoming breaker), this is a vital safety feature.

 

IMHO It's a total mess, I recommend getting a competent sparks in and re doing the whole shebang (with emphasis on the "bang")!

 

[SailingHome]

Are you saying that not only are some of the neutrals bonded to the ground, but that the case itself is neutral? Which would especially within air conditioner give rise to considerable shocks? If it had been set up that way from the beginning with zero ground wires what would be the implications? Are there any indications that some of the neutral go to the correct neutral bar?

 

 

[Crossy]

1 hour ago, SailingHome said:

Are you saying that not only are some of the neutrals bonded to the ground, but that the case itself is neutral? Which would especially within air conditioner give rise to considerable shocks? If it had been set up that way from the beginning with zero ground wires what would be the implications? Are there any indications that some of the neutral go to the correct neutral bar?

 

Wire colours mean nothing!

 

You won't (ok shouldn't) get shocks from the neutral, but if you install an RCBO with the box as it appears to be wired then it won't stay switched on.

 

But I see a lot of grey wires on what is supposed to be the ground bar, and green/yellow wires on what is supposed to be the neutral.

 

Working out exactly what is going on is nigh on impossible from a photo, you need to be hands-on with some basic test gear.

 

The only way to be certain is to disconnect everything, and with the power off of course buzz-out (meter, bulb and battery) the neutrals from each circuit.

 

Whilst you are at it those taped joints have to go!!! Particularly the one connecting a brown and blue (what did I say about wire colours).

 

[Dante99]

2 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Whilst you are at it those taped joints have to go!!!

What do you replace them with?  Photo please if not too inconvenient.  Thank you.

[SailingHome]

Well, in fact, what's the new air conditioner was put in the shocks got greater and greater which is all explainable according to the IEEE and even Thai sources. Remember that none of those green wires were there. If none of those green wires were there and nothing else was moved what are you looking at?

[Crossy]

9 minutes ago, SailingHome said:

If none of those green wires were there and nothing else was moved what are you looking at?

 

A complete mess!

 

If you are getting shocks, time to turn off at the mains and get a competent sparks in!!!!!!!!!

 

Is there a ground rod anywhere? Where is it connected to??

[Crossy]

6 minutes ago, Dante99 said:

What do you replace them with?  Photo please if not too inconvenient.  Thank you.

 

As a Brit I would use Wago connectors.

 

Failing those, wire nuts (not permitted in the UK)

 

 

[SailingHome]

Just now, Crossy said:

 

A complete mess!

 

... Yes. I believe the electrical code calls for workmanship but remember those are old brittle wires from an old fuse box being reused and that location can't be reached in an emergency. However I don't think Thailand is as advanced with their electrical code yet to say that anytime work is done it must be brought up to code.

Specifically I'm wondering if you removed those green and black ground wires that were added for my safety on the left hand side don't you see some neutral connected to ground as if Willy nilly any bus is OK or is that just my eyes deceiving me?

[Crossy]

Sorry. without being there I really can't say what is going on.

 

WIRE COLOURS MEAN NOTHING!!!!! For all we know he's used brown for earth.

 

Do you have any test gear (a simple multimeter would do)? A neon screwdriver would also be handy.

 

Seriously, you need to get a man in before someone dies or a conflagration starts. Try talking to your local PEA/MEA office, many of their chaps are not averse to a bit of moonlighting and they are likely to be decently competent.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

11 minutes ago, SailingHome said:

... Yes. I believe the electrical code calls for workmanship but remember those are old brittle wires from an old fuse box being reused and that location can't be reached in an emergency. However I don't think Thailand is as advanced with their electrical code yet to say that anytime work is done it must be brought up to code.

Specifically I'm wondering if you removed those green and black ground wires that were added for my safety on the left hand side don't you see some neutral connected to ground as if Willy nilly any bus is OK or is that just my eyes deceiving me?

As @Crossy said it’s a total mess as are the cables coming in. None of the wires have brittle insulation. There is no code enforcement in Thailand and often never an inspection.

 

you don’t say where you are located, in the northeast I have the contact information of an electrician. Your install looks to have been done by a blind plumber in the dark. It certainly isn’t the worst but it is getting there.

[Crossy]

2 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Your install looks to have been done by a blind plumber in the dark.

 

He was probably wearing boxing-gloves too.

[SailingHome]

Just now, sometimewoodworker said:

As @Crossy said it’s a total mess as are the cables coming in. None of the wires have brittle insulation. There is no code enforcement in Thailand and often never an inspection.

 

you don’t say where you are located, in the northeast I have the contact information of an electrician. Your install looks to have been done by a blind plumber in the dark. It certainly isn’t the worst but it getting there.

Only juristic offices are qualified and certified other than very large company electricians. That I know of there are no inspection services as those that I can find won't come. "Electricians" IE Western qualified to higher standards, or Thai who routinely contract to do electrical work are not an authority.  What does the condominium act say of the Juristic body if they install electrical in the room and don't check the box?

[SailingHome]

6 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

As @Crossy said it’s a total mess as are the cables coming in. None of the wires have brittle insulation. There is no code enforcement in Thailand and often never an inspection.

 

you don’t say where you are located, in the northeast I have the contact information of an electrician. Your install looks to have been done by a blind plumber in the dark. It certainly isn’t the worst but it getting there.

Bangkok, but thanks for the offer 🙂 I now a lot of electricians and EE's

[Crossy]

15 minutes ago, SailingHome said:

I now a lot of electricians and EE's

 

Get one of them in to have a look.

 

And then ask them to fix it if they don't run away screaming!!

[Crossy]

Is this your home or a rental??

 

If a rental get the landlord to sort it!

[Dante99]

45 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

As a Brit I would use Wago connectors.

https://assets.aseannow.com/forum/uploads/monthly_2024_12/Screenshot2024-12-25082216.jpg.2f45ac7cba0a5fddc2f703da30506f61.jpg

 

Failing those, wire nuts (not permitted in the UK)

 

https://assets.aseannow.com/forum/uploads/monthly_2024_12/Screenshot2024-12-25082409.jpg.4feb97da568c77e980d8a0d623356033.jpg

 

I found Wagu 221-412 on Shopee for 47 baht.  It not the same as your photo but seems to be the same function.  Does it look okay to you? Or should I search further for one that matches your photo?  Many thanks.

[Crossy]

1 minute ago, Dante99 said:

I found Wagu 221-412 on Shopee for 47 baht.  It not the same as your photo but seems to be the same function.  Does it look okay to you? Or should I search further for one that matches your photo?  Many thanks.

 

I have no beef with the ones you show, they are intended for wires up to 4mm². The smaller ones are good to 2.5mm².

 

[Dante99]

3 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

I have no beef with the ones you show, they are intended for wires up to 4mm². The smaller ones are good to 2.5mm².

 

Spec online says good up to 4mm.  Another says 24-12 AWG which is 3.3mm according to a chart I found.

 

Again thank you very much.  I am very happy to have a new and better way to connect wires.  

[UWEB]

1 hour ago, Dante99 said:

Spec online says good up to 4mm.  Another says 24-12 AWG which is 3.3mm according to a chart I found.

 

Again thank you very much.  I am very happy to have a new and better way to connect wires.  

Have used hundreds of them for my new builds two years ago, they are perfect. If needed you can get even some up to 6 sq mm cable size.

[SailingHome]

2 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

Get one of them in to have a look.

 

And then ask them to fix it if they don't run away screaming!!

😉 That's an option. Do you consider that a minor repair having a certified electrician not just electrician come and sort it out properly when the office of the condo won't do so in your rental?

Let's talk about getting landlords to do something in Thailand if they don't want to and let's talk about their ability

[Crossy]

Personally, I would get one of your friends over to survey the installation and document exactly what is awry.

 

Then, either fix it on the QT, or go to the juristic with your documented survey and ask if they have a certified electrician they can recommend.

 

That said, if it was done by their certified sparks ... 

 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

2 hours ago, Dante99 said:

I found Wagu 221-412 on Shopee for 47 baht.  It not the same as your photo but seems to be the same function.  Does it look okay to you? Or should I search further for one that matches your photo?  Many thanks.

https://assets.aseannow.com/forum/uploads/monthly_2024_12/sg-11134201-7rdym-ly0wfar71bhi7c_tn.jpeg.437689cf102e3c84f1ac54ea2c36aab1.jpeg

Those are a copy of the newer style. The copies are available in many configurations on AliExpress they have been tested to over 5 x the rated current after that they heated enough to melt the insulation, the connections never failed.

 

 

 

the latest clip together

 

 

https://assets.aseannow.com/forum/uploads/monthly_2024_12/IMG_1999.thumb.jpeg.cedc0932c8c6a3133f56642a9d2ec7fc.jpeg

https://assets.aseannow.com/forum/uploads/monthly_2024_12/IMG_1999.thumb.jpeg.cedc0932c8c6a3133f56642a9d2ec7fc.jpeg
 

 

[KannikaP]

5 hours ago, Crossy said:

The bar to the left of the incoming breaker should be the NEUTRAL.

 

The bar at the top which is bolted to the case should be the EARTH/GROUND.

Are these two bus bars not then connected together, so it matters not which ones the wires go into?

[Crossy]

10 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

Are these two bus bars not then connected together, so it matters not which ones the wires go into?

 

Sort of.

 

If the system is TNC-S (MEN) there is a link between the INCOMING neutral (that is before the main switch) and the earth bar. But the bus bars are not actually connected together. This arrangement is important if an RCBO incomer is used as linking after the incomer will mean the RCBO will not operate correctly (at all).

 

Our OP is in a condo which is likely TNS with a separate earth running right back to the transformer where the N and E are connected together and to an earth mat. If it's an older building then the N-E link might be at the bus-bars on each floor. Just how it's done varies.

 

This is how TNC-S (MEN) is implemented in Thailand. Note the routing of the incoming neutral via the earth bar.

Diagram is from this PEA document Groundwire Mk2 book-Manual.pdf my translations.

 

[NanLaew]

Here's my, similar-sized CU. Maybe something the OP's chosen remedial electrician should aspire to?

 

https://assets.aseannow.com/forum/uploads/monthly_2024_12/IMG_20241225_1128322.thumb.jpg.0a6d81824743a7a9ff89d4d610510c50.jpg

[In Full Agreement]

 

 

The installation shows little to no pride in workmanship.

 

https://assets.aseannow.com/forum/uploads/monthly_2024_12/Box1.thumb.jpg.8b3791ac051d631ac3ba350dd1ce07f7.jpg

https://assets.aseannow.com/forum/uploads/monthly_2024_12/MainsBox2.thumb.jpg.2fac9baf8408b176b1431db9fbd35b3b.jpg

https://assets.aseannow.com/forum/uploads/reactions/react_like.png

• Quote

[SailingHome]

Just now, NanLaew said:

Here's my, similar-sized CU. Maybe something the OP's chosen remedial electrician should aspire to?

 

https://assets.aseannow.com/forum/uploads/monthly_2024_12/IMG_20241225_1128322.thumb.jpg.0a6d81824743a7a9ff89d4d610510c50.jpg

https://assets.aseannow.com/forum/uploads/monthly_2024_12/IMG_20241225_1128322.thumb.jpg.0a6d81824743a7a9ff89d4d610510c50.jpg

That still makes no sense... is the left bar neutral? So the breaker attaches to a rail and one rail to one or 2 screws on the left? Different box though. mine can be a differnt setup.. 

[NanLaew]

1 minute ago, In Full Agreement said:

 

 

The installation shows little to no pride in workmanship.

 

 

 

Yes, the OP's CU is a total shambles, similar to the large CU in my home that was built and wired over fifteen years ago. That's four times the size of the OP's CU (and the one in my shed, above).

 

We did get a qualified sparky in, he said the only safe way to proceed was to do a total rewire of the house as there was no way of telling what was spliced and jointed in the roof space or in conduit. A few of the outlets show that original clown sparky decided that MEN bonding can be done safely (cheaply) at the receptacle...but only some. Most have no ground connected at all.