The Pelicot Rape

[BangkokReady]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I doubt that 70 men could be found willing to rape an unconcious woman and not tell their friends about it.

 

The thing is, this isn't a group of 70 men sampled at random.  They could have met online and all been very sick and twisted people.

[Will B Good]

3 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

 

I've also found the "fingering is also rape" thing to be kind of weird.  They obviously aren't the same.  You would feel differently if someone put their finger inside you than if they put their penis inside you, had sex with you, and climaxed, so it seems unfair to say that someone who did the former has committed the same crime as someone who did the latter.

 

Maybe the severity of punishment is where the distinction arises, as opposed to the definition of.....

[BangkokReady]

11 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

Maybe the severity of punishment is where the distinction arises, as opposed to the definition of.....

 

Whilst I hope that is the case, it seems like maybe reactionary/misandrist left-wing types are desperate to have as many men as possible labelled as rapists.  (They do love to be able to bend the meaning of words whenever it benefits them.)

[Elkski]

I found it odd she never woke up or remembering passing out.   It said he put the drug combo in her food so did she pass out at the table and he carried her to bed?   I also wondered how there wasn't suspicious traces of lube or other stuff that she noticed.   

70 guys.  I heard of this story a month ago on the radio news (possibly BBS) but not before that.    I recall the guys were widely various ages and different races.    Also something about one child defending his ( nots so by me) harsh punishment. 

Anyone who thinks this is some leftist witch hunt is deplorable. But maybe not unexpectedly considering the audience here. 

[Liverpool Lou]

On 12/27/2024 at 11:16 AM, xtrnuno41 said:

n India girls age 7 and up are sold or kidnapped for having sex in the bigger cities, prostitution !

And the list goes on and on. Endless.

What "endless list"?  You mentioned one type of incident in one location on your "list" that did end after only one example.

[Liverpool Lou]

On 12/29/2024 at 3:16 AM, FritsSikkink said:

Who is Mrs.Pelicots?

Anything to do with Thailand?

Does she have to have anything to do without Thailand?

[Flyguy330]

52 minutes ago, Elkski said:

I found it odd she never woke up or remembering passing out.   It said he put the drug combo in her food so did she pass out at the table and he carried her to bed?   I also wondered how there wasn't suspicious traces of lube or other stuff that she noticed.   

70 guys.  I heard of this story a month ago on the radio news (possibly BBS) but not before that.    I recall the guys were widely various ages and different races.    Also something about one child defending his ( nots so by me) harsh punishment. 

Anyone who thinks this is some leftist witch hunt is deplorable. But maybe not unexpectedly considering the audience here. 

Yes you bring up an interesting point - the actual 'mechanics' of how it was done to her, how she was drugged. So, he arranged to have men come over to 'rape' her. If she was not 'in on it' she had to be unconscious by the time they arrived (or awkward questions would be asked). So he had to time the administration of the drug (what drug was it anyway?). Keeping her unconscious would also have been tricky. She mustn't wake up during the proceedings. But equally she hadn't to be poisoned by an overdose. That's quite a feat to acheive I imagine.

There are just so many unanswered questions about this whole thing that I find it hard to believe.

As to it being 'a leftist witch hunt' - do you mean all the media attention and praise for her is to be taken at face value too and simply accepted? We live in times of total fakery by the media, and nothing they print seems to be without agenda. I for one am not so gullible as to believe all I read or hear. Everything has spin. Everything.

[Liverpool Lou]

15 hours ago, swissie said:

I am not buying the victims story 100%.

No one except the jury had to and the opinion of those of us who did not hear the evidence and do not accept her story and whether she was truthful is irrelevant.

[Liverpool Lou]

11 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

20 hours ago, AlexRich said:

Says a guy who’s never heard of the most publicised rape case of the year? 

I live in Thailand, needed to google what this what about as it isn't news in all countries.

It was reported in Thailand.

[Flyguy330]

So juries never feel intimidated or swept up by massive publicity?

It was a public trial I presume, so lots of people besides the jury heard the arguments.

What was the defense? Was there one? I haven't heard it.

[chickenslegs]

25 minutes ago, Flyguy330 said:

So juries never feel intimidated or swept up by massive publicity?

It was a public trial I presume, so lots of people besides the jury heard the arguments.

What was the defense? Was there one? I haven't heard it.

Pelicot himself admitted to what he had done, drugging his wife and inviting/recruiting men to rape her. Some of the men have also admitted to being rapists. A Court heard all the evidence and found them guilty. What more do you want?

One link to a news report ...

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/9/17/i-am-a-rapist-french-man-admits-to-drugging-and-mass-rape-of-his-ex-wife

There are many others.

[jaywalker2]

I agree the story sounds strange.  But from what I can gather the gang rapes did not involve that many men. Over the course ten year period, there were 92 separate incidents involving 72 men, and even though some of the men raped her more than once, it seems her husband was careful to orchestrate the rapes in such a way to mitigate the effect it would have on her when she woke up (even though he himself anally raped her, since she would not consent to that particular sex act).

 

Before the rapes began she had already been prescribed an anti-anxiety drug that had the effect of making her drowsy. He just added a little more to her food to ensure she remained unconscious. So if you figure that ten years is 3650 days and there were 92 incidents, you can see that he was probably trying space out the incidents so that he could successfully explain away whatever complaints she might make.

 

Even so, she did have blackouts and other symptoms. She went to several doctors but none of them bothered to check her blood for drugs apparently and a cursory examination revealed nothing wrong with her. Every time she was accompanied by her husband who explained away her symptoms by saying she was exhausted from caring for her grandchildren so perhaps the doctors didn't take her seriously as a result, hence her anger at French male society. Then, again, she was in her sixties, so the idea that her husband was drugging her and soliciting men to rape her was probably not something most doctors would think of.

 

The husband, of course, completely confessed, so if there is more to the story, it could be that he's trying to protect others. He was a member of a forum dedicated to stories and discussions about raping and abusing women while drugged and taught one of his friends how to drug and rape his own wife and then raped her himself.

 

He was also accused of raping at least one other women and was implicated in the murder and rape of another woman. Still, at the trial his wife said that he was an ideal husband who always took care of her. The psychotherapist who examined him called it a case of split personality.

 

Well, as Hamlet said, "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." What is most chilling is that there is a whole subculture out there of men who engage in acts like this or even worse and they meet online and exchange stories and photos. Incredible.

 

 

 

 

[Elkski]

20 years or if it's a life sentence at his age is still not harsh enough.  

I've always said the death penalty needs to be by guillotine at half time of major televised sporting events.  And only 5 years of appeals.  Of course lots of recent cases of frame jobs and wrongful convictions proven by DNA.   Make my idea of maximum deterrent not practical. 

I did envision slow mo (on the diamondtron)  of the head rolling down the white sheet wrapped ramp into the woven basket. 

[liddelljohn]

Just Castrate them all  with a guillotine  then bury them alive , why should the French tax payers have to pay to lock up all those scumbags for 20 years .

 

Give Madame Pelicot a big government pension in honor for her bravery

[FritsSikkink]

11 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Does she have to have anything to do without Thailand?

Read that again a couple of times.

[rattlesnake]

6 hours ago, Elkski said:

20 years or if it's a life sentence at his age is still not harsh enough.  

I've always said the death penalty needs to be by guillotine at half time of major televised sporting events.  And only 5 years of appeals.  Of course lots of recent cases of frame jobs and wrongful convictions proven by DNA.   Make my idea of maximum deterrent not practical. 

I did envision slow mo (on the diamondtron)  of the head rolling down the white sheet wrapped ramp into the woven basket. 

 

In my first year in Thailand, back in 2009, I remember watching an execution by firing squad on TV. Drug traffickers, if my memory serves me correctly. I remember thinking "wow, now that's an effective deterrent". I wonder if they still do it, I don't recall ever seeing that again.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/30/2024 at 2:25 PM, BangkokReady said:

 

I've also found the "fingering is also rape" thing to be kind of weird.  They obviously aren't the same.  You would feel differently if someone put their finger inside you than if they put their penis inside you, had sex with you, and climaxed, so it seems unfair to say that someone who did the former has committed the same crime as someone who did the latter.

Rape isn't just the penis or fingers in, it's more the mental anguish of being violated against one's will and the feeling of powerlessness. The physical trauma goes away, but the mental anguish never does. If the woman being unconcious changes that I can not say. Obviously she has no mental anguish of the action at the time. On that basis, fingers might not be relevant to rape, though sexual activity on a non consenting person is the issue here.

[Flyguy330]

21 hours ago, chickenslegs said:

Pelicot himself admitted to what he had done, drugging his wife and inviting/recruiting men to rape her. Some of the men have also admitted to being rapists. A Court heard all the evidence and found them guilty. What more do you want?

 

I never doubted his admissions. What I doubt is how she claims to have been totally ignorant of what was going on.

 

[Flyguy330]

10 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

 

In my first year in Thailand, back in 2009, I remember watching an execution by firing squad on TV. Drug traffickers, if my memory serves me correctly. I remember thinking "wow, now that's an effective deterrent". I wonder if they still do it, I don't recall ever seeing that again.

That recent really? Wow, I never heard of it.

I worked in Nigeria for a while in the early 80's and they televised regular firing squad executions from the beach in Lagos. I think there are still videos online.

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, jaywalker2 said:

He was a member of a forum dedicated to stories and discussions about raping and abusing women while drugged a

Rape porn is popular, but it doesn't mean that men that watch rape porn go out and actually rape women.

 

Seems that if it all real, an unusual group of men happened to become associated, and able to make their fantasies come real.

 

I say unusual, because I'll wager that most men that watch rape porn would never actually do it, even if offered the chance.

[thaibeachlovers]

5 minutes ago, Flyguy330 said:

I never doubted his admissions. What I doubt is how she claims to have been totally ignorant of what was going on.

 

On that I can agree. IMO there is more to the story than we know of.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/30/2024 at 2:38 PM, BangkokReady said:

 

The thing is, this isn't a group of 70 men sampled at random.  They could have met online and all been very sick and twisted people.

but where online? I don't know a lot about the internet, but I do know that it's all monitored, which is how child sex offenders are picked up. So, how did it happen for years if it was discussed on a medium subject to monitoring? We are not talking about a couple of people using code.

[josephbloggs]

11 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

 

In my first year in Thailand, back in 2009, I remember watching an execution by firing squad on TV. Drug traffickers, if my memory serves me correctly. I remember thinking "wow, now that's an effective deterrent". I wonder if they still do it, I don't recall ever seeing that again.

Yeah - what a deterrent, all drug trafficking immediately stopped that day.

[BangkokReady]

12 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Rape isn't just the penis or fingers in, it's more the mental anguish of being violated against one's will and the feeling of powerlessness. The physical trauma goes away, but the mental anguish never does. If the woman being unconcious changes that I can not say. Obviously she has no mental anguish of the action at the time. On that basis, fingers might not be relevant to rape, though sexual activity on a non consenting person is the issue here.

 

The issue I have with it, is that people are going to have a certain image in their mind when someone says "rape" and I don't think digital penetration deserves to have that label applied to it.

 

They are both bad but, and excuse me for being graphic, the image of a man holding a woman down, forcing his penis inside her, then having sex until he climaxes, is not the same as a man inserting his finger into her.

 

The reason it seems misandrist to me is that it feels like some people specifically want that label/image to be attached to a man who has not actually done that thing.

[BangkokReady]

10 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

but where online? I don't know a lot about the internet, but I do know that it's all monitored, which is how child sex offenders are picked up. So, how did it happen for years if it was discussed on a medium subject to monitoring? We are not talking about a couple of people using code.

 

I think a lot isn't actually monitored. Or they join groups through some sort of app. That always seems to be the case in reports in Thailand, they're in some sort of group chat.

[thaibeachlovers]

8 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

 

I think a lot isn't actually monitored. Or they join groups through some sort of app. That always seems to be the case in reports in Thailand, they're in some sort of group chat.

Well, seems that it's a bit like Russian Roulette- take the chance it isn't monitored. Anyway, only takes one guy to report it.

 

I don't understand how 70 or more guys could just stumble on to it though. It's not like they go on facethingy and ask if there are any guys wanting to start a group about raping unconcious women.

 

I have no doubt that AI is being used to look at every site now. People might have got away with it 20 years ago, but a new sheriff is in town.

[thaibeachlovers]

16 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

That always seems to be the case in reports in Thailand, they're in some sort of group chat.

but we only know that because the group's chat site got discovered.

[thaibeachlovers]

22 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

The reason it seems misandrist to me is that it feels like some people specifically want that label/image to be attached to a man who has not actually done that thing.

I have no doubt there are people out there looking to tarnish as many men as possible. Any reason will do.

[jaywalker2]

23 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Rape porn is popular, but it doesn't mean that men that watch rape porn go out and actually rape women.

 

Seems that if it all real, an unusual group of men happened to become associated, and able to make their fantasies come real.

 

I say unusual, because I'll wager that most men that watch rape porn would never actually do it, even if offered the chance.

Well, the forum was implicted in 23,000 crimes during the ten years of its existence and Pelicote didn't seem to have any trouble recruiting men in the general vicinity to rape his elderly wife. Maybe only a small percentage of men act on their fetish fantasies but the ones who do seem to be really really sick, 

https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2024/12/europe/gisele-pelicot-france-case-messages/

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, jaywalker2 said:

Well, the forum was implicted in 23,000 crimes during the ten years of its existence and Pelicote didn't seem to have any trouble recruiting men in the general vicinity to rape his elderly wife. Maybe only a small percentage of men act on their fetish fantasies but the ones who do seem to be really really sick, 

https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2024/12/europe/gisele-pelicot-france-case-messages/

If there was just one thing that the human world is not short of it's really really sick ( mentally ) individuals.

Most of them used to get killed off in wars, but we haven't had any big ones for a long time and they are still out there.