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Looming Crisis: Private Schools Face Closures Amid VAT Hike


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Posted
4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Well you can always pass time imagining such stuff.

 

Of course, my comments were 'pie in the sky'...  

 

However, who would have imagined 10 years ago that Private Schools would be targeted to fill a short fall ?

My 'what next?' is not such a huge leap of the imagination. 

 

 

 

 

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Posted
7 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Perhaps the increase of £1Billion on SEND education will factor in the decisions parents make.

 

perhaps too, had funding been maintained since 2010, parents would have had to take their children out of the state schools in the first place.

When will all this be in place for the SEND children? If not immediate then what happens those that have no suitable place now because of Labours new policy?

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Posted
16 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

perhaps too, had funding been maintained since 2010, parents would have had to take their children out of the state schools in the first place.

 

If you want to be a complete wazzock, Perhaps  if the financial crash of 2008 had not happened, funding might have been maintained since 2010.

 

Or did you forget about that.

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Posted
9 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

When will all this be in place for the SEND children?

 

By next week after the Christmas holidays 😀😀

 

We have a Party of Messiahs in power, dontcha know.

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Posted
17 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

The term increased funding for State Schools.

 

It increased funding for a minority of pupils and for teachers pay rises.

 

This is not funding for State Schools. This is funding for 2 aspects of State education.

 

I am not surprised that you cannot understand the difference. Actually, scrap that. I'm not.

Oh

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Posted
6 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

If you want to be a complete wazzock, Perhaps  if the financial crash of 2008 had not happened, funding might have been maintained since 2010.

 

Or did you forget about that.

Back to the personal attacks I see.

 

 

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Posted

VAT on schools is not a tax, but an act of class warfare

And it’s far from clear that it’s legal, too

According to Chancellor Rachel Reeves, the extra levy will raise £1.7 billion annually, allowing more to be spent on state schools, and improving education for the majority of children in the state sector. And yet, Reeves’s logic and her mathematics are both in error.
No proper account has been made for the parents who will have no choice but to move their children – increasing the burden on the state sector – or for the schools that will inevitably close, with the loss of jobs that will entail.
In reality, the Chancellor has no idea how much money will be raised, and has made no detailed assessment. As with her extra levies on farmers, this may raise nothing at all. The claim that the school system will be “improved” by imposing a tax on a significant part of it, and one that may not in fact collect any extra money for the Exchequer, is implausible at best. 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/12/29/vat-on-schools-not-tax-but-class-warfare/

https://archive.ph/wRKW0

Posted
3 hours ago, RayC said:

As I said elsewhere, the effects of this change are unknown and estimates - whether low or high - rest on even more tenuous than usual.

 

We may not know  precisely but it's already clear the receipts -never that significant in the scheme of things - will be much less than the figures bandied around.It was never the prime motive anyway,Meanwhile the dullard Education Secretary is intent on rolling back the reforms which have seen English state schools shoot up the global league tables over the past 15 years.

 

 

Posted

Any extra money for SEND has already been spent

2. £1bn for SEND, but most will cover deficits

Of the £2.3 billion schools funding increase, £1 billion is for SEND and alternative provision. The Treasury said this was a 6 per cent real-terms increase.

Councils will have “discretion” on how they will spend the additional cash, but the Treasury predicts “it is very likely that they will use the funding to reduce their in-year deficit”.

The documents suggest it would clear £865 million from SEND deficits in 2025-26.

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/budget-2024-most-of-1bn-send-injection-will-plug-deficits/

1. Four in 10 councils face bankruptcy over £4.9bn ticking timebomb deficit

NAO said four in 10 councils may be at risk of declaring effective bankruptcy if an accountancy immunity – known as a statutory override – ends in March 2026. 

Since 2020, councils have been allowed to keep high needs deficits off their books. This was due to end in 2024, but was extended until 2026 because 10 councils would have effectively gone bankrupt overnight if they had to move their deficits back onto their balance sheets.

The cumulative deficit could be up to £4.9 billion when the override ends, DfE believes. 

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/send-in-crisis-naos-8-damning-findings/

£1billion Government SEND funding 'not enough' to help the 1,800 children missing school in Surrey

https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/1billion-government-send-funding-not-30310006

Surrey County Council paid out £500,000 last year for repeatedly failing children and families

https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/surrey-county-council-paid-out-29273263

Surrey runs out of space for private school children

Local council has no vacancies for pupils in Year 9, 10 or 11 under Labour’s VAT raid

Forecasts show there are expected to be no vacancies for pupils in Year 9, 10 or 11 next September despite the Government’s own data suggesting 2,400 children in Surrey need spaces in state school as a result of its 20pc levy.

If the nearest available school is more than three miles away, the council must provide free transport to those who apply. If there is no public transport in place, they may have to pay for taxis to take children to school.

There are concerns that Labour’s VAT raid could result in councils racking up big bills for private school pupils to be taxied to school because of a lack of spaces in nearby state schools.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/tax/surrey-runs-out-space-private-school-children-forced-out/

It looks like Surrey will be paying out more in fines in 2025

Posted
20 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

You think this is a personal attack ?

 

 

The thread is called " Looming crisis in Private schools " Due to the VAT increase imposed by Labour.

 

It is not about 14 years of Tory cuts

 

Nor about 2010 funding

 

Or anything to do with the Tories.

 

And every time you bring up something to do with Tories, it makes you a complete wazzock, because all you are doing is trying to deflect, obfuscate and deny.
 

And if you think that is a personal attack, You are Owen Jones and I claim my £5.

 

Ah, yet another personal attack.

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Posted
3 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Any extra money for SEND has already been spent

2. £1bn for SEND, but most will cover deficits

Of the £2.3 billion schools funding increase, £1 billion is for SEND and alternative provision. The Treasury said this was a 6 per cent real-terms increase.

Councils will have “discretion” on how they will spend the additional cash, but the Treasury predicts “it is very likely that they will use the funding to reduce their in-year deficit”.

The documents suggest it would clear £865 million from SEND deficits in 2025-26.

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/budget-2024-most-of-1bn-send-injection-will-plug-deficits/

1. Four in 10 councils face bankruptcy over £4.9bn ticking timebomb deficit

NAO said four in 10 councils may be at risk of declaring effective bankruptcy if an accountancy immunity – known as a statutory override – ends in March 2026. 

Since 2020, councils have been allowed to keep high needs deficits off their books. This was due to end in 2024, but was extended until 2026 because 10 councils would have effectively gone bankrupt overnight if they had to move their deficits back onto their balance sheets.

The cumulative deficit could be up to £4.9 billion when the override ends, DfE believes. 

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/send-in-crisis-naos-8-damning-findings/

£1billion Government SEND funding 'not enough' to help the 1,800 children missing school in Surrey

https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/1billion-government-send-funding-not-30310006

Surrey County Council paid out £500,000 last year for repeatedly failing children and families

https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/surrey-county-council-paid-out-29273263

Surrey runs out of space for private school children

Local council has no vacancies for pupils in Year 9, 10 or 11 under Labour’s VAT raid

Forecasts show there are expected to be no vacancies for pupils in Year 9, 10 or 11 next September despite the Government’s own data suggesting 2,400 children in Surrey need spaces in state school as a result of its 20pc levy.

If the nearest available school is more than three miles away, the council must provide free transport to those who apply. If there is no public transport in place, they may have to pay for taxis to take children to school.

There are concerns that Labour’s VAT raid could result in councils racking up big bills for private school pupils to be taxied to school because of a lack of spaces in nearby state schools.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/tax/surrey-runs-out-space-private-school-children-forced-out/

It looks like Surrey will be paying out more in fines in 2025

Begs the question, why these council deficits exist.

  • Confused 1
Posted
1 minute ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Hiya Owen, sucks to be you.

What I find amusing is, unless you and your children attended/attend private schools, then you are defending a system the gives those that have/do an advantage over you and your children.

 

The majority of the general public understand this, hence the majority of public support for Labour’s policy on the matter.

 

Refer link I provided above and Labour’s manifesto.

 

 

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

unless you and your children attended/attend private schools, then you are defending a system the gives those that have/do an advantage over you and your children.

And what is wrong with giving your children an advantage in any aspect of their upbringing?

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

What I find amusing is, unless you and your children attended/attend private schools, then you are defending a system the gives those that have/do an advantage over you and your children.

 

I'm very much pro choice, not dumbing down to the lowest common denominator.

 

Which is a Socialist construct.

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Posted
10 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Refer link I provided above and Labour’s manifesto.

A totally pointless document given their totally less than stellar performance, since duping the public, on their way to their cack handed power grab!

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Posted
1 minute ago, scottiejohn said:

A totally pointless document given their totally less than stellar performance since coning their way to power!

Hardly pointless, it’s what they won an election on.

 

Further more, you are participating in’s discussion on one the commitments within the manifesto.

 

Did you think that through?

Posted
Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

Hardly pointless, it’s what they won an election on.

 

Further more, you are participating in’s discussion on one the commitments within the manifesto.

 

Did you think that through?

Their manifesto was a tissue of lies as was their pre election promises/statements and their subsequent dereliction of duty since gaining power!

Posted
3 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

I'm very much pro choice, not dumbing down to the lowest common denominator.

 

Which is a Socialist construct.

If you can provide me with any credible link to a socialist political philosophy document that promotes ‘Dumbing down to the lowest common denominator’ I might believe you.

 

Otherwise we are left with you objecting to others paying VAT when they buy an advantage over you and your children.

Posted
1 minute ago, scottiejohn said:

Their manifesto was a tissue of lies as was their pre election promises/statements and their subsequent dereliction of duty since gaining power!

And yet here you are discussing a commitment within the manifesto that has been demonstrated to be a truth.

 

Did you think that through?

  • Confused 1
Posted
3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

f you can provide me with any credible link to a socialist political philosophy document that promotes ‘Dumbing down to the lowest common denominator’ I might believe you.

 

I dont need to provide you with anything.

 

I just  need to look around the world and identify where Socialism is leaving the rest of the world in in its wake as speeds off into Utopia.

 

Perhaps you could help me identify such a Utopia ?

Posted
Just now, The Cyclist said:

 

I dont need to provide you with anything.

 

Injust need to look around the world and identify where Socialism is leaving the rest of the world in in its wake as speeds off into Utopia.

 

Perhaps you could help me identify such a Utopia ?

If you contact the forum admin they might open a thread on the subject.

 

In the meantime if you make claims it’s for you to back them up.

Posted
7 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

If you contact the forum admin they might open a thread on the subject.

 

Perhaps you should heed your own advice.

 

It will save you getting upset when others give you answers that you do not want to hear, especially when it pertains to your off topic deflection and obfuscation.

 

 

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Posted
45 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Begs the question, why these council deficits exist.

mismanagement of public funds

Lost in Iceland: £1 billion from councils, charities and police

More than 100 public bodies had money in collapsed banks

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2008/oct/10/banking-iceland

Here a Council that thinks it is a bank

Bankrupt Woking Borough Council 'cosplaying' as bank by lending millions to private school

Woking Borough Council had “no business” handing over millions of pounds in unsecured loans to a private school and was “cosplaying” at being a bank, a top ranking official has said.

Greenfield School borrowed millions of pounds from the now bankrupt borough but has since approached the authority to say it did “not currently have funds” to fully repay a debt of £2.4 million due to mature on November 25.

https://www.wokingnewsandmail.co.uk/news/bankrupt-woking-borough-council-cosplaying-as-bank-by-lending-millions-to-private-school-739817

Posted
1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Begs the question, why these council deficits exist.

Ask Lambeth, they’ll let you know how to become masters at debt

Posted

For the Top 2 posters on the thread 😀😀

 

Quote

VAT on private schools ‘won’t raise enough to hit new teacher target’

Labour has been warned that its pledge to recruit 6,500 teachers will cost £5 billion a year, while the VAT policy will raise just £1.8 billion

 

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/vat-on-private-schools-wont-raise-enough-to-hit-new-teacher-target-njmr58zzl

 

Labour. Making a field of turnips, look like a field of MENSA members.

 

As the poster above notes, the head turnips of Starmer, Reeves and the Minister for Education will be hoping that the Courts save them.

 
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Posted
10 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

For the Top 2 posters on the thread 😀😀

 

 

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/vat-on-private-schools-wont-raise-enough-to-hit-new-teacher-target-njmr58zzl

 

Labour. Making a field of turnips, look like a field of MENSA members.

 

As the poster above notes, the head turnips of Starmer, Reeves and the Minister for Education will be hoping that the Courts save them.

 

 

 

Ha ha. I mistyped. I meant sack not save them, on the off chance he's not one of them. I still believe (naively) Starmer is basically a decent man, but flawed. Reeves I think is simply incompetant, but does a good job interview. Phillipson is simply vindictive; there are dark allegations made on social media about her mother.

 

I wish I could read that article, but I suspect it will be tragically comic. VAT on gambling will raise over £3bn a year, but they won't tax that because of working man etc. Tax on TEFL schools will raise a decent £300m, but they won't do that due to Subcontinent politics. Tax on childrenswear will raise at least £1.3bn (varying estimates of the market size).

 

The government think richer parents should specifically support the education the children of poorer parents. Yet, education funding is something that is generally accepted  as something that the whole of society funds, whether with child, with children, childless, child-free. This is not out of some alturistic motivation but because today's kids are tomorrow's taxpayers. And state pension is paid by todays taxpayers, not yesterdays. Quid Pro Quo.

 

Will childless people now be targeted for more tax because, presumably, they have lots more money sloshing around that they don't know what to do with?

 

Its interesting when you dig far into the past, before VAT, when the UK had Purchase Tax (Luxury Tax introduced in WW2). Hansard debates  are interesting. It wasn't always the case that Private Education was not taxed. But parents  had tax relief that was capped at (in 1963 £) at about £80 a year (about £1200 today). It interesting to read the Hansard debate from the day. Its much the same as now, though tax relief was couched in terms of providing relief to an over stretched state sector.

 

If the government was at all concerned with children, it could have looked mutiple options and models. One is the idea of the School voucher, amounting to say £7000, which would be effectively a £7000 discount on the average £18,000 annual fee. All schools only exist at the pleasure of the government; they cannot operate without government approval. A government could easily require said schools to increase admission numbers. The net result is probably more middle class parents would be interested in independant education, VAT take increases, relief on state schools, as state schools and private schools become more and more similar.

 

Another approach is means tested tax relief, coupled with increased admission numbers, You are shifting x% of students where its going to cost you £5bn just to get 1 extra teacher for 3 schools to a system where you have 76,000 ready made teachers paid for by someone else.

 

A colleague in India explained to me how it works in India (not suggesting Indian standards). He complained there are too many schools. But there are private schools and state schools, and some of these private schools have a very good reputation. Parents who want their children to attend these schools have to go into a lottery, and children drawn at random. The state pays most of the fees, and the parents, if they wish to take up the place, pay a very modest amount. I'm sure there are flaws in that approach, but its an example of lots of ways the government could have considered, but instead followed a show of hands at a party conference, which, like all party conferences of whatever colour, is only attended by fanatics and ideologues (Student Grant Types, Lefties, Blue Rinse Brigade, Gammons, Swivel Eyed Loons, Powerfully Built Dieectors, whatever you want to call them).

 

Oh, and Philipson has put a suspension of Free School applications and anything associated. Gove's reforms have been generally welcomed by the profession, except by her. She might have got wind of Eton College proposing to open 3 state Sixth Forms. Another act of vandalism by an unusually ill-qualified Education Secretary (in truth, virtually all Education Secretaries are unqualified, one one in the last 40 years was a former teacher, and she reisgned as she felt she wasn't up to the job).

 

 

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