Where can Thais get help against a scammer?

[Lorry]

A friend got a phone call.

It seems the scammer knew her bank details,  from KTB.

He called (not from the bank's number) and said, he called from KTB. Then transferred the call to a "police", who added her in line and sent a "polce letter" by line only.

An official looking letter, supposedly from the police in Lamphun, with Garuda and stamps.

The letter told her not to tell anybody about this letter,  it's a goverment secret. 

Asking for 35,000, accusing her of money laundering.

 

They told her the account where to send the money (it is not written in the letter).

She sent the balance of her bank account (5600) to an SCB account of an stranger and is now asking all her friends to lend her 35,000.

I still don't understand the details,  but I think it's a scam. 

I am not in Thailand, so it's a bit difficult for me to help. 

She has the idea to travel to Lamphun (from Bangkok) to ask whether the letter is real.

I think that's ridiculous. Any better ideas?

 

I think the 5600 is lost,  or would it help to complain to KTB?

I think she should change her account to another bank? Which one?

I think complaining to police is useless? 

 

 

[Puccini]

It is definitely a scam. She should immediately report it to her bank and to the local police.

 

She should immediately change her phone number and no longer accept calls from numbers she does not know nor call anybody she does not know.

 

Somebody should make sure that she transfers or otherwise pays no more money to the scammers or anybody who claims they can get the money back for her.

[richard_smith237]

One of you are being scammed... 

 

Why is she asking 'all her friends' for 35,000 baht, if she lost just 5600 baht ?

 

The SCB account will be a Mule Account.

She should report this to the Police (though its unlikely the do anything) - she should give the police the SCB account details into which she complained. 

She should take the Police Report to Kasikorn Bank and report the scam to them too.

 

Her 5600 baht is very likely lost.

 

She should ignore calls from any number she doesn't recognise as she's not sharp enough to recognise an obvious scam.

 

-------------

 

Of course, its your choice if you send her money...   but the 35,000 baht when she has lost 5600 baht indicates something is amiss. 

[Will B Good]

31 minutes ago, Lorry said:

but I think it's a scam

 

 

That made me laugh.

[Lorry]

By now, friends told her it was a scam. 

She blocked the number and the line account of the caller.

She realizes 5600 is gone (= life savings).

@richard_smith237She wanted 35,000 because that's what the scammer was asking for. 

Originally,  she was very upset, feels better now.

 

I will tell her

- change bank

- change phone number

- change line

1 hour ago, Puccini said:

Somebody should make sure that she transfers or otherwise pays no more money to ... anybody who claims they can get the money back for her.

 

Thx, didn't think of that.

 

The scammer knew all her personal details including ID number, bank account and place of birth (which isn't written on the ID card and which she hardly tells anybody).

So it's an inside job of government staff  and bank staff.

That's why I think complaining to police and KTB (= Krung Thai) is a waste of time. But she should probably do it.

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

She should ignore calls from any number she doesn't recognise as she's not sharp enough to recognise an obvious scam

Correct. 

But beware: very sharp people (eg an American submarine commander,  a German professor of a law school) can get so shocked by these calls that they don't realise it's scam.

 

BTW further reading:

 

https://www.usip.org/publications/2024/05/transnational-crime-southeast-asia-growing-threat-global-peace-and-security

 

[phetphet]

The person could try calling the bank, explaining the scam, and they might freeze scammer's account for three days and give a number to take to the police to report the crime. They will need to take photocopies of all evidence. LINE chats, call logs etc.

 

But don't hold out much hope.

 

The scammers use other people's accounts. The Police, even if they could be bothered, are absolutely overwhelmed with these crimes.

 

Happened to my GF buying on Facebook Marketplace. Bank froze the account, I went with her top the police station. 

While waiting, I saw three or four people coming in to report being scammed in one way or another.

She never had any luck getting her money back.

 

 

[richard_smith237]

54 minutes ago, Lorry said:

Correct. 

But beware: very sharp people (eg an American submarine commander,  a German professor of a law school) can get so shocked by these calls that they don't realise it's scam.

 

BTW further reading:

 

https://www.usip.org/publications/2024/05/transnational-crime-southeast-asia-growing-threat-global-peace-and-security

 

I nearly got caught out in the UK...   A very convincing scam.

 

I'd just listed a car on Auto-trader and within minutes I received a call from Auto-trader, stating I'd just made a payment of £xx.x for the advert... but it didn't go through... Could I give the card details again... 

 

Sure, I said, I'll call you back on the Official Autotrader number...  The woman (very well spoken) got irritated with me, that was when I first realised it might be a scam !!!..  

 

They are often very convincing... I never click on a link in an e-mail etc.

 

BUT - the British Government, send out e-mails with links to click !!! - performance survey etc (after a recent passport renewal) - they must be stupid if they think people will click on a link, rather, only the naive ones will. 

So, I can't tell them how terribly they did as I don't want to click on a link !!!... Win win for them, only the mentally feckless can give them feedback !!! 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

59 minutes ago, Lorry said:

I will tell her

- change bank

- change phone number

- change line

 

There's no harm in doing any of that and it protects her.

 

Though - that won't protect her from future scams...   so she has to understand, do not send money to anyone ever... unless she instigates a purchase etc

 

- Changing Bank will be easy... 

- Changing phone number will be easy, although other's who have her number will be unable to contact her in future and she will get just as many cold and scam calls - but they will be less advanced.

- Changing LINE messenger will be the hardest as most of her contacts will be on that, she could keep the LINE messenger (if its registered to a login and not a phone number - but thats another step to go through).

 

- She can just block Scammer on LINE - that doesn't stop another from contacting her, but she's alert to this by now and can just block any new attempt. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Lorry said:

2 hours ago, Puccini said:

Somebody should make sure that she transfers or otherwise pays no more money to ... anybody who claims they can get the money back for her.

Thx, didn't think of that.

 

This is the most important point for her...

- Never send anyone money if she is not 100% certain and has not instigated a purchase etc (even then, be extremely careful)

- Hang up on any calls where she doesn't know the other party in person

- Never respond to any messages on Messaging services from those she does not know

 

 

[richard_smith237]

Finally........

 

Does she now understand and accept that this is a scam ?... 

 

OR...   is she still asking for 35,000 baht from you and friends ?

[Lorry]

20 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Does she now understand and accept that this is a scam ?... 

Yes

 

20 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 is she still asking for 35,000 baht from you and friends ?

No, some "pi" convinced her (could even be me, as I am one of these people she calls "pi")

She is now sad about her savings.  But I think 5600 is not too high a price to learn an important lesson

[richard_smith237]

3 minutes ago, Lorry said:

Yes

 

No, some "pi" convinced her (could even be me, as I am one of these people she calls "pi")

She is now sad about her savings.  But I think 5600 is not too high a price to learn an important lesson

 

Understandable...  5600 baht is a lot of money to some and loosing it in a scam is horribly violating. 

 

I lost 2800 baht with a purchase on Facebook... All looked legitimate. 

The scammer had a decent profile - a FB profile opened 6 years ago, lots of contacts etc.

Wife transfered the money for the item - we didn't hear anything from the scammer for a few days, so checked the FB profile again and it was not there, the scammer had closed their account - it was likely a mule FB account and Bank account.

 

 

I'm wondering how many accounts have been opened over 5-6 years to look more legitimate and they get closed after 1 successful scam - a lot of work... but if it pays off. 

 

I was angry...  and have since looked for the same photos being posted (same item being used for a scam)... but still don't know how we'd catch the scammer without police support and they just can't be bothered with this small stuff.... 

 

We did file a Police report and told our bank though - but the bank can do nothing without a warrant to check where the funds went... and again, the Police can't be bothered to do that for 2800 baht (& neither would the UK police either)... Chalk it down to experience, nevertheless, its very annoying, especially when poor people are targeted. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Puccini]

4 hours ago, Lorry said:

...So it's an inside job of government staff  and bank staff...

 

No, it is definitely not an inside job of government staff and bank staff.

[Liverpool Lou]

5 hours ago, Lorry said:

So it's an inside job of government staff  and bank staff.

That's why I think complaining to police and KTB (= Krung Thai) is a waste of time. But she should probably do it.

Bit rich to assign blame to the government and KTB staff without any evidence.

 

There is a number to call to report theses scams that gets the receiving bank account frozen almost immediately.  It was widely publicised about a year ago.   Those who have been scammed online can contact the Anti-Online Scam Center at 1441. Reporting helps track scammers and potentially recover funds.

 

https://library.siam-legal.com/what-is-thailands-anti-online-scam-operation-center/

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Bit rich to assign blame to the government and KTB staff without any evidence.

 

There is a number to call to report theses scams that gets the receiving bank account frozen almost immediately.   Those who have been scammed online can contact the Anti-Online Scam Center at 1441. Reporting helps track scammers and potentially recover funds.

 

I've read this from you before...    but I can't remember the response to the question probably asked at the time.

 

What is to stop someone from calling up 'this number' and reporting someone they've had an argument with and getting their account frozen almost immediately ?

 

Is a police report and some form of warrant not necessary to freeze an account ?

 

[Lorry]

21 minutes ago, Puccini said:

 

No, it is definitely not an inside job of government staff and bank staff.

So how did the scammer have all this information?

[Liverpool Lou]

5 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

8 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Bit rich to assign blame to the government and KTB staff without any evidence.

 

There is a number to call to report theses scams that gets the receiving bank account frozen almost immediately.   Those who have been scammed online can contact the Anti-Online Scam Center at 1441. Reporting helps track scammers and potentially recover funds.

Expand  

 

I've read this from you before...    but I can't remember the response to the question probably asked at the time.

 

What is to stop someone from calling up 'this number' and reporting someone they've had an argument with and getting their account frozen almost immediately ?

 

Is a police report and some form of warrant not necessary to freeze an account ?

You heard it from me before because it is factual.    The AOC, banks and police work together on this and, for the initial investigation, I  don't believe that a warrant is necessary as the time delay would defeat the object of the exercise that is to try to reimburse people who have been scammed before the funds are transferred out of the mule bank account to a third party.  

[Lorry]

19 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Bit rich to assign blame to the government and KTB staff without any evidence.

 

There is a number to call to report theses scams that gets the receiving bank account frozen almost immediately.  It was widely publicised about a year ago.   Those who have been scammed online can contact the Anti-Online Scam Center at 1441. Reporting helps track scammers and potentially recover funds.

 

https://library.siam-legal.com/what-is-thailands-anti-online-scam-operation-center/

Thx. I remember. 

I asked my bank (which isn't KTB) and they told me to call 1441.

[richard_smith237]

6 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

17 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

I've read this from you before...    but I can't remember the response to the question probably asked at the time.

 

What is to stop someone from calling up 'this number' and reporting someone they've had an argument with and getting their account frozen almost immediately ?

 

Is a police report and some form of warrant not necessary to freeze an account ?

You heard it from me before because it is factual.    The AOC, banks and police work together on this and, for the initial investigation, I  don't believe that a warrant is necessary as the time delay would defeat the object of the exercise that is to try to reimburse people who have been scammed before the funds are transferred out of the mule bank account to a third party.  

 

Is there anything in place that stops me from blocking my Wife's account (just to use an example) ?

 

It seems, if it was this easy, anyone could block anyone else's account and use this tool as revenge etc.

 

Thus: How easy is this actually ?

 

(not argumentative but genuinely interested )

 

Wife and I were scammed 2800 baht - I would have very much liked to have the recipient account frozen.

[still kicking]

15 minutes ago, Lorry said:

So how did the scammer have all this information?

They are very sophisticated this days I watched a show about scammers in OZ  one person lost 400.000 $ the total lost to scammers is estimated 400 million $ in one year.

[Lorry]

The government knows the place of birth of a Thai.

It's not written on the ID and not normally used for identification in Thailand. 

I wouldn't know where else than in  government databases is this information stored.

Account number and ID number are relatively easy to get - but by far thre easiest way  to get them is buying these data in bulk from the bank. The seller may not be authorized to sell the data, but that doesn't change anything. 

[Puccini]

16 hours ago, Lorry said:

So how did the scammer have all this information?

 

From what one reads in the news, it is usually the result  of phishing, sometimes of data accidentally leaked from databases of online sellers or media because of insufficient protection.

 

Phishing is continually getting more sophisticated and one reads about highly educated people in high job positions falling for it and falling for scams about alleged money laundering or other money-grabbing scams.

 

For background information:

https://world.thaipbs.or.th/detail/widespread-online-scams-pose-daunting-challenge-to-thai-authorities/221

 

[Lorry]

2 hours ago, Puccini said:

 

From what one reads in the news, it is usually the result  of phishing, sometimes of data accidentally leaked from databases of online sellers or media because of insufficient protection.

 

Phishing is continually getting more sophisticated and one reads about highly educated people in high job positions falling for it and falling for scams about alleged money laundering or other money-grabbing scams.

 

For background information:

https://world.thaipbs.or.th/detail/widespread-online-scams-pose-daunting-challenge-to-thai-authorities/221

 

Phishing is very labor-intensive and requires skilled staff. 

It's  a one-by-one operation,  not scalable. 

Absolutely not worth it for 5600 baht, not even for 35,000 (if they had gotten the whole amount,  which they probably don't get in most cases).

 

According to

23 hours ago, Lorry said:

https://www.usip.org/publications/2024/05/transnational-crime-southeast-asia-growing-threat-global-peace-and-security

the scamming industry generates about 350 USD per day, per employee (estimate based on witnesses).  You cannot do this with phishing, you need  bulk business. You need to buy whole databases, wholesale, just like you buy 200,000 SIM cards wholesale and you make millions of cold calls.

 

In my home country,   banks (and sometimes police) usually blame the victim and say his data must have been obtained by phishing. 

In reality,  almost all cases I have ever read about or heard from were cold calls. 

Just like @richard_smith237reports about Auto-trader.

Just like the cold calls all of us get regularly.

 

Having said that, phishing does happen, on a massive scale. Just look at all the beautiful girls on TF or other websites who make their money by bitcoins/forex.

From the various online scams quoted on your PBS link, "shopping scams, luring job seekers to transfer money, lending scam, investment scam, and making threats via telephone calls.," some are more suitable to phishing,  some (eg threatening calls) to cold calls.

 

[bfc1980]

My friend was hit with the exact same scam a couple of years ago. Told she wasn't allowed to even tell her husband or they'd both be arrested and her kid thrown into care. Looking back, it's absurd but at the time it was absolutely terrifying for her. Fortunately she didn't pay. 

 

I'm sure I get many scam calls but once I come out with, "Eh up mate, do ya speak English?" they put the phone down. 

 

[FritsSikkink]

On 12/28/2024 at 3:35 PM, Lorry said:

 

I still don't understand the details,  but I think it's a scam. 

 

I think you are right and your friend shouldn't believe everything that people are telling her/him.

[Lorry]

5 hours ago, bfc1980 said:

Told she wasn't allowed to even tell her husband

Yes, not even parents