Revenue Department boss calls on tax residents in Thailand to file 2024 returns by March 31

[Will B Good]

1 hour ago, jesimps said:

I read on AN a few months back a lawyer advising that those exempt under the DTA need NOT file a return. As a British ex-government employee, I will take his advice. 

 

So if you are in receipt of a government pension it is exempt?

 

I receive three pensions and rental income, one of the pensions is a government pension....they all go into my UK bank account.

 

So as long as I only transfer an amount equivalent to my government pension each year I'm in the clear?

[Neeranam]

5 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

You're just trying to cause trouble, make upset and make something out of nothing.

 

You found the expert package at 26k but ignored the first one on the list that costs 8K.

 

You also chose to ignore the following:

 

We are authorised and regulated by the
Thailand Federation of Accounting Professions (TFAC)

 

Shame on you!

 

 

 

As a company they can give tax advice but the foreign guy can't, as previously mentioned, he would need to possess a CPA license issued by the Federation of Accounting Professions (TFAC), which he doesn't seem to have. Shame on yourself. The cheapest one I see is 14k. 

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, crazykopite said:

I already pay UK taxes of which Thailand has an agreement with Soi won’t be filling a return on monies already taxed 

It does not necessarily follow that because you paid UK tax you owe no Thai tax.  Thresholds and tax rates differ. 

 

You can of course claim UK tax paid as a credit on Thai return. 

[The Cyclist]

2 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

However, Thai tax forms contain no wsy to declare non-assessable income.

 

Anything declared will be assumed (and treated) as assessable. 

 

If you go back to my post of Monday, followed up by the more detailed post I made on Tuesday.

 

The lady at the Revenue Office on Monday, on a PND 91

 

Box 1, Salaries, wages, pensions etc,  - put my total annual remittance.

 

After a bit of back and forwards

 

Box 2, Less exempted income - Same figure as box 1

 

Box 17, 19 & 20 - Put a zero.

 

She told me that I had to file, and this is how I need to fill in the PND 91.

 

I know, understand and accept that none of us have done this before, myself included.

 

I can also hold my hands up and say that right up until Monday, I was also of the opinion, stick with the status quo and dont bother filing.

 

I have now changed my mind, based on the 3/bullet points that I posted in response to @chiang mai on the previous page.

 

 

[Sheryl]

5 hours ago, UKresonant said:

It does make me think back to a conversation with a UK HMRC Technician, back in 2018. She said it would be likely the my exempt .gov pension would have to be declared  .. in some places they wanted to show it taxed, and the refund it on the other side of the page as credit / refund of the tax...

 

>It would be great if some transparency would be given on practical RD operation of tax credits.

 

I'm pondering, the exempt would have to feature in the calculation eg. much simplified, roughly...

 

Say £20000 taxable in TH, UK private pensions, already taxed in UK -£1485.

£ 2000 UK .gov pension, -£400 tax (just coincidental, sequence of when pension was initiated, not the rate for that pension type)

 

So tax paid £1885/20115so approx £0.0937 for each net £. Only net £s being actual remitted to Thailand. 

 

So if THB 500k sent to Thailand, say £12000 x0.0937=£1124 or THB 46850 Tax credit. 

2000/22000 9.09% of each is non taxable, THB 450500 taxable, with a Tax credit of THB 42211.85.

 

No forms apparent.to express the tax credit?

 

How will it work!

 

There is no distinct separation at the UK taxed end, for DTA consideration subsequently....<

 

[Not currently tax res]

 

 

 

 

 

 

RD has stated forms are being revised to include section for foreign tax credits.

 

But  credit for foreign taxes paid are a different issue from non-assessable income.  I have not seen a single RD statement about the latter. It is  not clear to me they even realize that (for nationals of  some countries at least) this issue exists  

[jwest10]

43 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

 Now I see why these people are spreading fear and lies on forums such as this.  Disgraceful. It takes me no more than 15 minute to do my tax return online. 

Expert Expat

Tax Filing

From
THB 26,000

Lucky you as most of us are first- timers and can not on line or any other means as no forms 90 and 91 and the Exempt/ Allowance form???

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, jwest10 said:

Lucky you as most of us are first timers and can not on line or any other means as no forms 91 and 92 and the Exempt/ Allowance form???

Do you work  in Thailand?

[Sheryl]

5 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

If you go back to my post of Monday, followed up by the more detailed post I made on Tuesday.

 

The lady at the Revenue Office on Monday, on a PND 91

 

Box 1, Salaries, wages, pensions etc,  - put my total annual remittance.

 

After a bit of back and forwards

 

Box 2, Less exempted income - Same figure as box 1

 

Box 17, 19 & 20 - Put a zero.

 

She told me that I had to file, and this is how I need to fill in the PND 91.

 

I know, understand and accept that none of us have done this before, myself included.

 

I can also hold my hands up and say that right up until Monday, I was also of the opinion, stick with the status quo and dont bother filing.

 

I have now changed my mind, based on the 3/bullet points that I posted in response to @chiang mai on the previous page.

 

 

But why  did you file PND91? Isn't that only for people employed in Thailand?

[jwest10]

Just now, Neeranam said:

Do you work  in Thailand?

No I do not and woul;d only want the none-existent  90 form and Exemtion/Allowance form

[Neeranam]

2 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

But why  did you file PND91? Isn't that only for people employed in Thailand?

it is, in my understanding.

[jwest10]

3 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

But why  did you file PND91? Isn't that only for people employed in Thailand?

Yes the 90 form only and the Exemption/Allowance form  but there are no forms to be downloaded anywhere???

[Neeranam]

4 minutes ago, jwest10 said:

No I do not and woul;d only want the none-existent  90 form and Exemtion/Allowance form

Why would you want any at all? 

 

BTW, from the OP - this is totally untrue if you don't work in Thailand. 

Expats with over 180 days in Thailand must submit returns for income remitted in 2024. New tax rules require filing electronically, with possible refunds for early submissions.

[anchadian]

25 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I can't see any service for 7k, even then that is a total ripoff.  

You have now:

[jwest10]

3 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Why would you want any at all? 

 

BTW, from the OP - this is totally untrue if you don't work in Thailand. 

Expats with over 180 days in Thailand must submit returns for income remitted in 2024. New tax rules require filing electronically, with possible refunds for early submissions.

That is the point one can not do electronically as can not as do not need a Tin as told to me by the local Revenue several times but believe you can file a non-existant 90 form?

[The Cyclist]

1 minute ago, Sheryl said:

But why  did you file PND91? Isn't that only for people employed in Thailand?

 

I haven't filed anything, yet.

 

I went into the RD Office, as I was at the car testing station, which is next door to an RD Office, to explain my remittances ( UK Government Pension ) into Thailand and ask if I needed to file anything.

 

Her answer was yes.

 

She then went and printed off a PND 91 and filled it in for me in pencil, to use as a template. She again reiterated that I had to file and could do it at the small RD Office, rather than going back  out to the large RD Office.

 

Box 1 - Annual figure remitted

 

Box 2 - Same figure

 

Boxes 17, 19 & 20 - Zero tax to pay.

 

Easy and straightforward

 

 

[Neeranam]

2 minutes ago, anchadian said:

You have now:

7,000 baht to get a TIN only. Then you pay minimum 14,000 baht to get advice on how to fill in a form. Unbelievable. 

My local tax office has a separate person for foreigners and it would take about 20 minutes to get a TIN. 

 

[Sheryl]

3 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

 

The UK - Thai DTA explicitly states that UK Gov Pensions are only taxable in the UK. Quite simple and easy to understand.

 

What the UK - Thai DTA does not state, is.

 

1. You are exempt from Reporting / Declaring that pension.

 

2. You are exempt from Thai tax Law should you become a tax resident of Thailand.

 

3. This Pension is non - Assessable for tax purposes in Thailand.

 

 

Govt pensions are only taxable in UK means same thing as govt pensions are non-assessable for tax purposes. 

 

Naturally the DTA says nothing about whether/how to declare non-assessable income, structure of Thai tax forms is up to Thailand and also subject to change. 

 

I would much prefer  to file showing my non-assessable remittances but the Thai  tax forms do not seem to allow for this and I have seen no indication this will change. 

[jwest10]

2 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

I haven't filed anything, yet.

 

I went into the RD Office, as I was at the car testing station, which is next door to an RD Office, to explain my remittances ( UK Government Pension ) into Thailand and ask if I needed to file anything.

 

Her answer was yes.

 

She then went and printed off a PND 91 and filled it in for me in pencil, to use as a template. She again reiterated that I had to file and could do it at the small RD Office, rather than going back  out to the large RD Office.

 

Box 1 - Annual figure remitted

 

Box 2 - Same figure

 

Boxes 17, 19 & 20 - Zero tax to pay.

 

Easy and straightforward

 

 

91 form clearly states from Employment and it states this on old forms!!

[The Cyclist]

1 minute ago, Sheryl said:

Naturally the DTA says nothing about whether/how to declare non-assessable income, structure of Thai tax forms is up to Thailand and also subject to change. 

 

Exactly, and it also does notbsay that one is exempt from Declaring / Reporting this income in Thailand.

 

And if one thinks about it logically, for Thailand to comply with its CRS requirements, that income would need to be declared / Reported.

[The Cyclist]

2 minutes ago, jwest10 said:

91 form clearly states from Employment and it states this on old forms!!

 

It also clearly states Pensions etc.

 

Right here

 

[Neeranam]

10 minutes ago, jwest10 said:

That is the point one can not do electronically as can not as do not need a Tin as told to me by the local Revenue several times but believe you can file a non-existant 90 form?

So, you don't work in Thailand, you've visited the RD, who tell you you don't need a TIN, there is no form for you to fill in but you still want to do it, why? 

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, The Cyclist said:

 

It also clearly states Pensions etc.

 

Right here

 

Pensions in Thailand.

[jwest10]

1 minute ago, The Cyclist said:

 

It also clearly states Pensions etc.

 

Right here

 

Seen this too but we all await as no forms for 2024

[jwest10]

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

So, you don't work in Thailand, you've visited the RD, who tell you you don't need a TIN, there is no form for you to fill in but you still want to do it, why? 

Not going to file but just stating several times what the local Revenue has stated

[jwest10]

5 minutes ago, jwest10 said:

Not going to file but just stating several times what the local Revenue has stated

I just want the non-existent PND90 form and the Exemption form but under the thresholds anyway and several times been advised by the local Revenue no need to file!!!

 

[The Cyclist]

5 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Pensions in Thailand.

 

Do you think the lady at the Revenue Department might have guessed that I was a foreigner,  and as such it might be unlikely that I had a Thai Pension, considering that I had just told her it was UK Gov Pension ?

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, jwest10 said:

I just want the non-existent PND90 form and the Exemption form but under the thresholds anyway

This whole nonsense reminds me of when many foreigners were told they could get a pink Thai ID card and all went running to the district office to get a useless card. Likewise many people who don't have to file a tax return are running to the Rd to get a useless TID. There is no new tax law for expat's!!!!! 

It's scaremongering click ait which only benefits charlatan foreign tax agents. 

[Neeranam]

6 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Do you think the lady at the Revenue Department might have guessed that I was a foreigner,  and as such it might be unlikely that I had a Thai Pension, considering that I had just told her it was UK Gov Pension ?

I've no idea what her motive was but I've been filing taxes here for 30 years and have va Thai pension and due to get a UK pension in 8 years which is not to be put on said form. She probably didn't want to tell you she didn't know. 

[jwest10]

3 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

This whole nonsense reminds me of when many foreigners were told they could get a pink Thai ID card and all went running to the district office to get a useless card. Likewise many people who don't have to file a tax return are running to the Rd to get a useless TID. There is no new tax law for expat's!!!!! 

It's scaremongering click ait which only benefits charlatan foreign tax agents. 

Got a pink ID card and Carl stated I could use but as there are no forms available in any case so at present can not amd will not!!1

[The Cyclist]

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

I've no idea what her motive was but I've been filing taxes here for 30 years and have va Thai pension and due to get a UK pension in 8 years which is not to be put on said form. 

 

Neither have I, but guess what, I will comply with what my local RD Office advises.

 

Just like I comply with my local Immigration Office, who appear to have slightly different rules from other Immigration Offices.

 

If there is 2 Offices that I'm not going to go out of my way to upset, it will be the Tax Office and Immigration Office