4M baht taxable?

[Airalee]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

My understanding is that would be irrelevant IF the wife is actually paying for living expenses for both. If she wants to pay the rent, make car payments, pay for dinner, why not.

Sure….I can understand what you’re saying.  But I wouldn’t be surprised if there is an audit to see if all of the sudden someone’s historical remittances go from a million baht per year down to zero.

[chiang mai]

I live in Thailand with my wife but earn income overseas which I remit to my wife as a gift to escape tax........What a deal that would be, nobody would need to pay tax any longer, just invest overseas and send the income to your wife as a gift!!!!!

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, Airalee said:

Sure….I can understand what you’re saying.  But I wouldn’t be surprised if there is an audit to see if all of the sudden someone’s historical remittances go from a million baht per year down to zero.

The key is that the Thai recipient could decide one day not pay for stuff and all of it would still legally be all her money.

[anrcaccount]

21 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

25 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

 

Based on the professional advice received and shared by another member, it's absolutely possible, using the parameters the OP outlined. 

 

Unless you have differing professional / official sourced advice to share, I'd suggest this is the best source available. 

 

Here is the link to  the thread again, if unclear:

 

 

I don't care what is said in another thread, prove it to using the links I supplied earlier, or othe TRD sources.

 

Right, so you don't care what another members professional advice stated, OK then. 

 

Where you said this:

 

"The op is the one who remits the income, remitting it to a third party doesn't make it suddenly not assessable"

 

Do you have professional advice or any sources, that support your opinion on this as it relates to a gifting situation?

 

None of the links you provided, state anything, regarding any form of tax liability, for giver of the gift.
 

[Airalee]

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

The key is that the Thai recipient could decide one day not pay for stuff and all of it would still legally be all her money.

Yup.

[chiang mai]

9 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

 

Right, so you don't care what another members professional advice stated, OK then. 

 

Where you said this:

 

"The op is the one who remits the income, remitting it to a third party doesn't make it suddenly not assessable"

 

Do you have professional advice or any sources, that support your opinion on this as it relates to a gifting situation?

 

None of the links you provided, state anything, regarding any form of tax liability, for giver of the gift.
 

Of course they don't, it's a given that the normal rules of assessable income apply, changing the payee doesn't change that.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, Barney13 said:

I want to remit 4M baht from my UK personal pension to my wife's Thai bank account via wise. Technically when this cash crosses the 'border' it's my remittance, therefore tax to be paid.

Your understanding is incorrect according to advice from one of the big four accounting firms, if it doesn’t touch your account.

 

2 hours ago, Barney13 said:

I also understand that I can 'gift' my wife up to 20M baht per year tax free.

That is correct, she pays no tax.

 

1 hour ago, Barney13 said:

TRD needs to detail a procedure for gifts

It has a detailed guide on gifts, have you read it?

 

Professional advice is that gift contracts are advisable as proof for TRD

 

[dayo202]

Where's the 4M coming from ? UK saving before 2024 ? If so my understanding that's not taxable 

[Barney13]

16 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

I live in Thailand with my wife but earn income overseas which I remit to my wife as a gift to escape tax........What a deal that would be, nobody would need to pay tax any longer, just invest overseas and send the income to your wife as a gift!!!!!

I live in Thailand with my wife but earn income overseas which I remit to my wife as a gift, correct, who is escaping tax, gifting is legal. 20M baht gift IS the deal if you're married isn't it?

[Jingthing]

22 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

I live in Thailand with my wife but earn income overseas which I remit to my wife as a gift to escape tax........What a deal that would be, nobody would need to pay tax any longer, just invest overseas and send the income to your wife as a gift!!!!!

Rules are rules.

 

[Barney13]

2 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Your understanding is incorrect according to advice from one of the big four accounting firms, if it doesn’t touch your account.

 

That is correct, she pays no tax.

 

It has a detailed guide on gifts, have you read it?

 

Professional advice is that gift contracts are advisable as proof for TRD

 

It has a detailed guide on gifts, who?

[Barney13]

4 minutes ago, dayo202 said:

Where's the 4M coming from ? UK saving before 2024 ? If so my understanding that's not taxable 

Personal pension due in 4 months

[chiang mai]

7 minutes ago, Barney13 said:

I live in Thailand with my wife but earn income overseas which I remit to my wife as a gift, correct, who is escaping tax, gifting is legal. 20M baht gift IS the deal if you're married isn't it?

Yes, but you can't use that as a way to evade assessment on the income you gifted.

[Barney13]

1 minute ago, chiang mai said:

Yes, but you can't use that as a way to evade assessment on the income you gifted

I'm gifting to avoid tax, not evade tax. So gifting is dependant on the type of remittance, I'll therefore avoid tax by leaving Thailand, simple.

[sometimewoodworker]

 

22 minutes ago, Barney13 said:

It has a detailed guide on gifts, who?

Did you not read the reply?

[sometimewoodworker]

14 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Yes, but you can't use that as a way to evade assessment on the income you gifted.

One of the directors of one of the big four accounting firms explicitly disagrees with you, though you need to do it correctly.

[Barney13]

3 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Did you not read the reply?

Sorry missed that, when was said guide made available, and why does nobody find an answer to all this using said guide. You for instance!

[sometimewoodworker]

4 minutes ago, Barney13 said:

Sorry missed that, when was said guide made available, and why does nobody find an answer to all this using said guide. You for instance!

I have!

I paid for what I have got, so can you.

 

As has been said if you pay nothing for advice it is likely to be as worth as much as the amount paid.

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

One of the directors of one of the big four accounting firms explicitly disagrees with you, though you need to do it correctly.

Yes yes yes, if you are not tax resident and/or if the gift is made overseas, there are ways around the rule, but NOT given the parameters set down by the OP.

 

I really do not understand why, given the number of times this topic has been discussed, why some posters  continue to have a circular debate about something that doesn't even pass the sniff test, for which there is no supporting evidence whatsoever. Turning the argument around and asking for evidence that the remitted income gift is taxable on the giver, is unhelpful and nothing more that a diversion and a distraction. 

 

As for "rules are rules".....again, nonsense! Understanding only half the rules doesn't make the argument complete or suddenly robust.  

[Barney13]

1 minute ago, sometimewoodworker said:

I have!

I paid for what I have got, so can you.

Loser

[sometimewoodworker]

3 minutes ago, Barney13 said:

Loser

Trying to leach?

 

PLONK!

[Barney13]

1 minute ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Trying to leach?

Leach? Trying to get help

[NoDisplayName]

38 minutes ago, dayo202 said:

Where's the 4M coming from ? UK saving before 2024 ? If so my understanding that's not taxable 

 

If you have prior savings, and documentation to prove that if necessary, you can remit the funds to your Thai account without paying tax, as those funds are non-assessable.  That's clearly stated in the tax laws.

 

From there you can gift up to 20 million baht to your wife with no tax consequences for either of you.

 

Since those funds are already established as non-taxable, there is no question of tax avoidance/evasion.

[sometimewoodworker]

18 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Yes yes yes, if you are not tax resident and/or if the gift is made overseas, there are ways around the rule, but NOT given the parameters set down by the OP.

The guidance is precisely as the OP “now ignored” as stated. No overseas inter-account transfer required, other than to the overseas Wise receiving account,. Irrespective of Tax residency of the person making the gift

 

Others disagree. YMMV TIT

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

If you have prior savings, and documentation to prove that if necessary, you can remit the funds to your Thai account without paying tax, as those funds are non-assessable.  That's clearly stated in the tax laws.

 

From there you can gift up to 20 million baht to your wife with no tax consequences for either of you.

 

Since those funds are already established as non-taxable, there is no question of tax avoidance/evasion.

Yes prior savings as of December 31. 2023.

In that case the source of those savings is irrelevant and can be remitted at any time in the future.

Generally talking about bank account funds.

Some members here have asserted that the value of retirement accounts (such as U.S. IRA accounts) on that date is also excluded. I find that extremely hard to believe. 

[Barney13]

16 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

I have!

I paid for what I have got, so can you.

 

As has been said if you pay nothing for advice it is likely to be as worth as much as the amount paid.

So you've basically got involved here to say I know the answer, but I'm not telling? Waste of skin!

[NoDisplayName]

45 minutes ago, Barney13 said:

I'm gifting to avoid tax, not evade tax. So gifting is dependant on the type of remittance, I'll therefore avoid tax by leaving Thailand, simple.

 

My wife called the 1161 TRD helpline (NOT our local TRD office) last week and confirmed with them that a gift received outside of Thailand is treated as a gift when the recipient remits into Thailand.

 

**edit to change who wife called!**

 

We plan to set up a Schwab account in her name to receive annual gifts of perhaps US$ equivalent of 1 million baht.  She will invest in US-registered ETF's earning many times more than she could earn on investments here.  Schwab will withhold 15% of dividends per DTA, and 0% of capital gains.  She will invest in capital appreciation funds that pay little/no dividends.  No US tax return needed.

 

After I'm gone, she can remit as needed.  That will give her experience investing, and she'll have funds available as IRS may take up to a year to produce the required tax document to release my assets she receives in my will.

 

All of the gifts will be from non-assessable prior savings, so I could remit first and then gift, but I don't want to take the risk of going through an audit and having to provide all the documentation.

 

 

[chiang mai]

3 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

The guidance is precisely as the OP “now ignored” as stated. No overseas inter-account transfer required, other than to the overseas Wise receiving account,. Irrespective of Tax residency of the person making the gift

 

Others disagree. YMMV TIT

That advice is wrong, either incomplete, misunderstood or plain and simply wrong and I don't care who gave it.

[sometimewoodworker]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Some members here have asserted that the value of retirement accounts (such as U.S. IRA accounts) on that date is also excluded. I find that extremely hard to believe. 

It is, in fact true, though if you did not crystallise the accounts as of 1/1/2024 you now have commingled funds this makes life complicated.

 

 

[NoDisplayName]

6 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

The guidance is precisely as the OP “now ignored” as stated. No overseas inter-account transfer required, other than to the overseas Wise receiving account,. Irrespective of Tax residency of the person making the gift

 

Others disagree. YMMV TIT

 

The overseas Wise account is in the OPs name, thus OP is remitting the funds and may be liable for tax.

 

If the wife had a Wise account, OP could perhaps gift into that.

 

Of course, would have to determine whether the wife's Wise account is registered as a Thailand-based account.