what money is taxed 2024 ?

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Re your 5 MB example, the tax advisor folks have been saying the same kind of thing about Thai property purchases.

 

If you move in 5 MB THB of otherwise non-exempted foreign funds in a year where you're a Thai tax resident (180+ days of presence in the calendar year), you're gonna be on the hook for Thai tax on that amount.

 

In the real estate example, their typical response/answer has been to say, leave Thailand so that you're NOT going to be present for 180+ days in that calendar year, then you can bring in all the foreign funds you want without Thai taxation.

 

Of course, that notion doesn't work so well if one is sick and/or hospitalized, and not likely to be relocating countries for 6+ months!!!

Agreed. If you did want to leave to avoid being a tax resident during the large medical expense that would only sometimes be possible based on the timing.

For example in the seventh month of a stay in Thailand you did the remittance, you would owe the next year regarless.

Some might be tempted to just leave Thailand altogether. So then it would be down to ENFORCEMENT. Would/could Thailand go after such people after they've left if they have nothing left in Thailand? I don't know. But one thing they COULD eventually do is to require tax clearances to leave. In which case in the medical crisis example, the survivor if they couldn't pay could end up in Thai prison for not paying.

Big fun!

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

20 minutes ago, JimGant said:

FATCA reports income, not remittances. You think FATCA was reworded to accomodate weirdo countries like Thailand and Malta, the only two countries that tax remittances, not income per se. Nope. FATCA only looks at income -- to include Thailand and Malta.

 Thanks Jim... that's a good point!

 

I probably should have used a CRS country instead of a FATCA country like the U.S. in that example. As I understand it, CRS countries like Thailand and various European ones also are/can be sharing data on a wide range of financial stuff, including foreign remittances and income, financial transactions, earnings, etc.

[JimGant]

4 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Rather than simply omitting any mention of those, since the online Thai tax forms for 2024 reportedly provide no ability to report TAX EXEMPT remittances, he's been saying that his firm plans to attach a document file with the online filing reporting the TAX EXEMPT remittances and the basis for them being tax exempt.

Carden's a friggin' snake oil salesman. He's the one, as you remember, advertised to US tax payers that, if you're here for over 180 days (i.e., a tax resident), you can cash-in your Traditional IRA tax free -- no US, no Thai taxes, because of how he interprets the wording of the DTA. Bonkers, really -- move to Thailand and cash in your tax deferred Traditional IRA tax free ....? Seemingly, however, he's gotten away with this scheme, as the IRS has bigger fish to fry. Not sure how he manages this now, with Por 161 in effect...

 

Anyway, keep Carden at arms length, and more.

[NoDisplayName]

1 hour ago, oldcpu said:

In regards to the quality of hospitals in different South East Asian countries. Singapore and Thailand have the best hospitals.

 

After that, in order of decreasing quality are Malaysia, Philippines,  and Vietnam. So if leaving Thailand,  but staying in South East Asia,  that may be a consideration.

 

 

I'd go to India for medical again.

Less expensive than Thailand, no concerns over tax on remittance for surgery, and the hospital food is awesome.

[NoDisplayName]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Panama for example no taxation on non Panama income or assets.

 

Might as well move back to the US in that case, as Panama will soon be the 58th state.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

7 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Carden's a friggin' snake oil salesman. He's the one, as you remember, advertised to US tax payers that, if you're here for over 180 days (i.e., a tax resident), you can cash-in your Traditional IRA tax free -- no US, no Thai taxes, because of how he interprets the wording of the DTA. Bonkers, really -- move to Thailand and cash in your tax deferred Traditional IRA tax free ....? Seemingly, however, he's gotten away with this scheme, as the IRS has bigger fish to fry. Not sure how he manages this now, with Por 161 in effect...

 

Anyway, keep Carden at arms length, and more.

 

And yet, he's been one of the most visible and active expat Thai tax figures opining on all this stuff, appearing before the Pattaya Expats Club and in various other presentations/interviews.... He's providing information, but he's also heavily pitching his company's paid services to prospective clients.

 

[TheAppletons]

14 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 Thanks Jim... that's a good point!

 

I probably should have used a CRS country instead of a FATCA country like the U.S. in that example. As I understand it, CRS countries like Thailand and various European ones also are/can be sharing data on a wide range of financial stuff, including foreign remittances and income, financial transactions, earnings, etc.

 

  It's been posted before but CRS reports year end account balances (along with name, account number.)  That's it.

 

  It doesn't (in general) report individual transactions unless specifically requested or somehow otherwise flagged.

[JimGant]

4 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

And yet, he's been one of the most visible and active expat Thai tax figures opining on all this stuff,

Yeah, a real Elmer Gantry.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

8 minutes ago, TheAppletons said:

 

  It's been posted before but CRS reports year end account balances (along with name, account number.)  That's it.

 

  It doesn't (in general) report individual transactions unless specifically requested or somehow otherwise flagged.

 

What some of the expat tax consultants have been saying is that Thailand will have the ability to do an annual exchange of info with other CRS countries, and they've described that as potentially very far encompassing, going beyond just bank account stuff.  But I'm just repeating what they've been saying. CRS is not my personal area of knowledge.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Another niggly detail I've been coming across is the whole area of tax exemption for LTR visa holders. I've seen it described here and elsewhere as a blanket exemption for bringing in foreign source income.

 

But now, both Siam Legal and another tax advisory firm have both been limiting that, advising that the tax exemption for LTR holders ONLY applies to remittance of foreign income earned from the PRIOR year... and not the current year, like if someone was transferring their salary every month as it was earned.

 

Example, per Siam Legal:

 

 

https://youtu.be/syQXa8gcVfE?t=1915

 

Meaning, the TRD seems to be interpretting the LTR exemption in the same, prior year way that they used to treat all foreign remittances, that they were tax-free as long as they were earned in the prior year (and not the current year).

 

 

[TheAppletons]

7 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

What some of the expat tax consultants have been saying is that Thailand will have the ability to do an annual exchange of info with other CRS countries, and they've described that as potentially very far encompassing, going beyond just bank account stuff.  But I'm just repeating what they've been saying. CRS is not my personal area of knowledge.

 

 

  From Eurobank's FAQs regarding CRS reporting:

 

 "The minimum information that financial institutions are obliged to report to the tax authorities regarding holders of a reportable account are:

Full name
Address
Tax identification number (TIN)
Tax residency
Account number
Balance or value of the account at the end of the relevant calendar year or other corresponding period
Any interest or other payments deposited into the account"

 

https://www.eurobank.gr/en/faqs-common-reporting-standard-crs#:~:text=Information included in the CRS&text=Tax identification number (TIN),year or other corresponding period

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 minute ago, TheAppletons said:

 

  From Eurobank's FAQs regarding CRS reporting:

 

 "The minimum information that financial institutions are obliged to report to the tax authorities regarding holders of a reportable account are:

Full name
Address
Tax identification number (TIN)
Tax residency
Account number
Balance or value of the account at the end of the relevant calendar year or other corresponding period
Any interest or other payments deposited into the account"

 

https://www.eurobank.gr/en/faqs-common-reporting-standard-crs#:~:text=Information included in the CRS&text=Tax identification number (TIN),year or other corresponding period

 

I'll note, your excerpt above opens with the terminology of those being the "minimum" that FIs are required to report...

 

I've been clipping the various tax advice opinions that the various local folks have been putting out. I'll try to go back and find the CRS-related post that I was recapping above... Of course, that doesn't mean that the advice/guidance they're giving is accurate/correct!

 

[JimGant]

4 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

But now, both Siam Legal and another tax advisory firm have both been limiting that, advising that the tax exemption for LTR holders ONLY applies to remittance of foreign income earned from the PRIOR year.

Read the LTR thread. I think you'll find that BOI -- the LTR visa folks -- have snuffed the notion that only prior year income is exempt from taxation. Their say on LTR visas, and the tax exemptions derived from, certainly should hold more sway than Siam Legal. Again, all these firms reaching out to hold your hand, and pocket book, re new tax regulations -- should be discounted accordingly.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Interesting commentary from Siam Legal on the prospective legality of all this stuff TRD is putting forward, because it's largely based on regulatory statements not supported by underlying actual legislation. Sounds like Siam Legal is looking for a would-be client to challenge this whole new tax regime:

 

 

 

https://youtu.be/syQXa8gcVfE

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Read the LTR thread. I think you'll find that BOI -- the LTR visa folks -- have snuffed the notion that only prior year income is exempt from taxation. Their say on LTR visas, and the tax exemptions derived from, certainly should hold more sway than Siam Legal. Again, all these firms reaching out to hold your hand, and pocket book, re new tax regulations -- should be discounted accordingly.

 

 Of course, BOI has a vested interest in making THEIR product as appealing to buy as possible.

 

In the end, it's not what the BOI says, or what Siam Legal says, but what kind of tax regime the TRD puts forward and tries to enforce that will matter.

 

Like so many things on this whole topic, there are many entities putting out many different details and interpretations of how this or that aspect of things is going to/supposed to work. No wonder, so many of us are confused and unsure of where we stand.

 

 

[oldcpu]

42 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Another niggly detail I've been coming across is the whole area of tax exemption for LTR visa holders. I've seen it described here and elsewhere as a blanket exemption for bringing in foreign source income.

 

But now, both Siam Legal and another tax advisory firm have both been limiting that, advising that the tax exemption for LTR holders ONLY applies to remittance of foreign income earned from the PRIOR year... and not the current year, like if someone was transferring their salary every month as it was earned.

 

Example, per Siam Legal:

 

 

https://youtu.be/syQXa8gcVfE?t=1915

 

Meaning, the TRD seems to be interpretting the LTR exemption in the same, prior year way that they used to treat all foreign remittances, that they were tax-free as long as they were earned in the prior year (and not the current year).

 

 

 

And a phone call to the Thai Revenue Department will remove that incorrect interpretation.  One of our forum members checked with the RD tax department. No tax on remitted forum income for LTR visa holders.  The Royal Decree is worded that way because when filing annual Thai tax returns one is always referring to the previous tax year.

 

However those tax advisory companies don't want to go the extra check to confirm their error (by contacting the Thai RD).  Why?  Because clarifying is not in their financial interest as they may lose a potential frightened LTR visa holder as a client, where the LTR visa holder (and the Tax Advisory companies) did not bother to check with the Thai RD help line (or read the Forum user's post who noted what the THAI REVENUE department confirmed)

 

(Edit - I refer specifically to LTR-WP, LTR-WGC, and LTR-WFTP visa holders)

 

Some seem to take a joy out of posting misinformation - without taking the time to check themselves.

.

 

[oldcpu]

26 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

 Of course, BOI has a vested interest in making THEIR product as appealing to buy as possible.

 

In the end, it's not what the BOI says, or what Siam Legal says, but what kind of tax regime the TRD puts forward and tries to enforce that will matter.

 

Absolutely and Thai RD confirmed. NO TAX on remitted foreign income for LTR visa holders.  NO CAVEATS in that confirmation by the Thai RD. (Edit - I refer specifically to LTR-WP, LTR-WGC, and LTR-WFTP visa holders)

 

That information has been posted a number of times already on this forum in different threads.

 

[1FinickyOne]

On 1/15/2025 at 12:03 PM, kimothai said:

These are already taxed in America.

What I read once, was that you might owe a tax on the difference between rates, if the Thai tax rate is higher...  as most, I have paid different tax rates on different income and then put them in the bank - long standing bank accounts - how would anyone know if I spent my capital gains from 1995 or my dividends from 2018? The money sent here was not likely from last years profits but from long held accounts that have been invested and reinvested through the years... 

[KhunHeineken]

23 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

I'd go to India for medical again.

Less expensive than Thailand, no concerns over tax on remittance for surgery, and the hospital food is awesome.

I suppose you can do without a second kidney. 

[JackGats]

A short heads-up about glitches when e-filing Form 90.

 

I managed to send in my Form 90 (with a request for refund of paid dividends) after some trial and error.

 

On my MacBook I couldn't log into my e-filing account at all. The system returned an error message when I sent back my OTP number.

 

On my iPad I could get into my account, fill in the form and complete the whole process up to the very last step but the final submission didn't go through. Worse still, when I relogged to start from scratch, all my figures were gone. My personal data remained unscathed.

 

Finally, on my Samsung Galaxy all went smoothly and I got an acknowledgement of receipt from the TRD.

 

P.S. I ended up filing on my own - taking things into my own hands - after the tax agency I contracted seemed to be making nothing but a dog's breakfast of the whole thing.

[dinga]

On 2/8/2025 at 7:41 PM, oldcpu said:

 

And a phone call to the Thai Revenue Department will remove that incorrect interpretation.  One of our forum members checked with the RD tax department. No tax on remitted forum income for LTR visa holders.  The Royal Decree is worded that way because when filing annual Thai tax returns one is always referring to the previous tax year.

 

However those tax advisory companies don't want to go the extra check to confirm their error (by contacting the Thai RD).  Why?  Because clarifying is not in their financial interest as they may lose a potential frightened LTR visa holder as a client, where the LTR visa holder (and the Tax Advisory companies) did not bother to check with the Thai RD help line (or read the Forum user's post who noted what the THAI REVENUE department confirmed)

 

(Edit - I refer specifically to LTR-WP, LTR-WGC, and LTR-WFTP visa holders)

 

Some seem to take a joy out of posting misinformation - without taking the time to check themselves.

.

 

I have no interest in an LTR Visa, so at the risk of being accused of scaremongering, I call BS on the claim that dissenting tax advisory companies have not clarified this issue with the TRD.

 

Suggest you look at the material on the Expat Tax Thailand website  -  here's an extract:

Can you please confirm that Wealthy Pensioner LTR Visa holders are exempt from tax on foreign source income remitted to Thailand

Yes the Wealthy Pensioner LTR is exempt from foreign sourced income if remitted the following tax year.

Category: Visa and Tax Declarations

Tags: LTR Visa, Pension, Tax Exemption

 

Amongst that website material is a recording of an interview ETT had with a Senior Lawyer from the TRD Legal Section.  My recollection is that the above extract is 100% consistent with the verbal advice from that Lawyer.

 

I just suggest LTR Holders clarify the tax position to their own level of satisfaction.

[JimGant]

2 hours ago, dinga said:

Amongst that website material is a recording of an interview ETT had with a Senior Lawyer from the TRD Legal Section.  My recollection is that the above extract is 100% consistent with the verbal advice from that Lawyer.

There is so much BS floating around on these threads. ETT presents its position smoothly, but gets it wrong sometimes -- and not necessarily because of their interpretation of matters, but because they're ill-served by "senior lawyers from the TRD," who are talking off the cuff, and not from any established Code.

 

I think most of us LTR-WP visa holders can rest assured that any and all remitted foreign income is tax exempt per Royal Decree 743 - regardless of what year it is remitted. We've gotten enough assurance for this from BOI, as many of us have queried them on this matter. And because it's a mainstay of BOI's selling position of LTRs -- you think they're blowing smoke for such a high positioned matter?

 

2 hours ago, dinga said:

Suggest you look at the material on the Expat Tax Thailand website  -  here's an extract:

 Yeah, well, ETT online material has a lot of misrepresentations. One of the major ones, as regards LTR-WP visa holders, is ETT's claim that such holders DO need to file a tax return, listing all their non assessable (non taxable) income. But, there's no place on the form to put non assessable income -- because TRD is not interested in it. HELLO ETT! And BOI has responded to many questions on this, with: NO, YOU DON'T NEED TO FILE A TAX RETURN! Anyway, this forum at least can get folks to analyze the situation with all the various forum inputs -- and maybe just blow away tax advisory creeps like ETT.

[oldcpu]

6 hours ago, dinga said:

I have no interest in an LTR Visa, so at the risk of being accused of scaremongering, I call BS on the claim that dissenting tax advisory companies have not clarified this issue with the TRD.

 

 

I pointed out , on this forum, in their questions pages, that one of the tax advisor sites stated the wrong things about the LTR visa. It may  or may not have been Expat tax. I can no longer recall.   I do recall thou, I recommended in that post, that they update their web page.  Maybe they have ... or maybe they  have not updated their page.

 

But you clearly have not been tracking this as it is NOT BS. 

 

Tax advisor sites have made mistakes here, and they have left their mistakes posted for what some of us consider an excessive period of time.  Why?  I see only 3 possibilities.  1. They forgot they made the mistake. 2.  They did not want to admit they made a mistake as people would lose confidence in them. ...  or 3. They did not want to admit they made a mistake because they were trying to drum up business.

 

I don't care which - as I think it pretty much agreed now for all LTR-WP, LTR-WGC, and LTR-WFTP visa holders, they if their only income is remitted foreign income after obtaining the visa, they do not have to file a Thai tax return, nor do they need a Thai tax ID number for that remitted income.

[JimGant]

12 hours ago, oldcpu said:

They did not want to admit they made a mistake because they were trying to drum up business

You think? 7500 for a TIN; 15000 to do a return, with all 'zeros' on the income lines..... What could be wrong with this picture?