Thai tax tangle: Expats warned of new rules on overseas income

[Jabberwocky]

36 minutes ago, Card said:

Do Some people really think the Thai tax dept like others that di the same around the workd haven't thought of such a potential.loophole?

I wonder if a foreign bank, asked to hand out data to Thailand or elsewhere, will not at least need  proof  of a criminal investigation. Even then I guess they would first check back with their home tax department if the credit card holder has paid his taxes. And if so, why would they comply, knowing of double tax treaties? 

[bkk6060]

1 hour ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

It was a huge upheaval but so relieved we left last year for more a favourable tax climate. We had been looking to buy a villa but a $1.5m villa would effectively be costing an extra 30% due to transferring from abroad, er no thanks. Plus the drama and uncertainty of filing Thai tax returns again years after retiring and stopping doing returns. Bet there were lots of happily retired families like us that bailed.

You have Thai lady?  Gift her the money and let her buy it.  Then, pay rent to her when you stay there. 

[jayboy]

56 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

When I was on a work permit, there was no need to file a tax return.

 

The employer would have filed a tax return on your behalf.

[Card]

41 minutes ago, Jabberwocky said:

I wonder if a foreign bank, asked to hand out data to Thailand or elsewhere, will not at least need  proof  of a criminal investigation. Even then I guess they would first check back with their home tax department if the credit card holder has paid his taxes. And if so, why would they comply, knowing of double tax treaties? 

Google 'Common reporting standard'. The dtas require full disclosure by participating states to prevent tax evasion 

[Briggsy]

15 minutes ago, jayboy said:

 

The employer would have filed a tax return on your behalf.

If they did, they never mentioned it.

[MikeandDow]

43 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

You have Thai lady?  Gift her the money and let her buy it.  Then, pay rent to her when you stay there. 

There are always way around Tax laws in every country !! whether or not its illegal!!, Thai laws are the same always loop holes.!! me dont trust banks here!  dont do bank tranfers, deal in cash !! bring cash  into thailand  You can bring up to $20,000 USD or the equivalent in foreign currency into Thailand without declaring it to customs. You can also bring up to 500,000 Thai baht (THB) into the country.  I work FIFO every trip do the same been doing it for 15yrs  the old phrase "Money under the bed" works for me ( Iam a poor pensioner )

[Retfed50]

21 hours ago, TheAppletons said:

Yawn.  Another for profit tax advisor sowing fear and confusion in an attempt to drum up business.

 

Criminal misinformation/misdirection.  

 

“All foreign income must be declared but this doesn’t always mean a tax liability.”  That's a straight up lie.

 

 

  Yeah, good luck with that.  

I have always said that they have no clue here how credit cards work. When you use a credit card, you are actually getting a loan from your bank and it has to be paid back. It is not income by any definition!

[jayboy]

27 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

If they did, they never mentioned it.

 

If they didn't you wouldn't have obtained your work permit.

[Card]

19 minutes ago, Retfed50 said:

I have always said that they have no clue here how credit cards work. When you use a credit card, you are actually getting a loan from your bank and it has to be paid back. It is not income by any definition!

You don't understand. Foreign Credit card use to buy goods abd services in thailabd is assessable fir tax in thailand if you pay off the card debt using assessable income. All you card transactions involving what you buy and how you pay off the debt is recorded and accessible by the Thai tax authorities. If u pay fir example the card debt with savings from before 1 Jan 2024 then the card debt is not taxable in thailand.

[VBF]

22 hours ago, sungod said:

22 hours ago, MikeandDow said:

They will have to be knocking on my door before i fill out any of there BS

I believe that to be the right approach.

None of this affects me, so only reading "OOI" but if it did, I'd agree, UNLESS a link is made between tax returns and visa renewals / extensions.

[MikeandDow]

1 minute ago, VBF said:

None of this affects me, so only reading "OOI" but if it did, I'd agree, UNLESS a link is made between tax returns and visa renewals / extensions.

Yep that would be the only reason i would go shxx!!  but again there would be ways around it !!

[Card]

1 minute ago, VBF said:

None of this affects me, so only reading "OOI" but if it did, I'd agree, UNLESS a link is made between tax returns and visa renewals / extensions.

And that will come. A direct link will arrive when they start taxing global income and that is likely this year or next. There is already a proposal.put forward to the thai parliament by the Thai revenue dept. The next step is to put it into law 

[MikeandDow]

4 minutes ago, Card said:

And that will come. A direct link will arrive when they start taxing global income and that is likely this year or next. There is already a proposal.put forward to the thai parliament by the Thai revenue dept. The next step is to put it into law 

2 years is a Loooooooong time in politics,  and as i said there will be ways around it

[Card]

30 minutes ago, MikeandDow said:

There are always way around Tax laws in every country !! whether or not its illegal!!, Thai laws are the same always loop holes.!! me dont trust banks here!  dont do bank tranfers, deal in cash !! bring cash  into thailand  You can bring up to $20,000 USD or the equivalent in foreign currency into Thailand without declaring it to customs. You can also bring up to 500,000 Thai baht (THB) into the country.  I work FIFO every trip do the same been doing it for 15yrs  the old phrase "Money under the bed" works for me ( Iam a poor pensioner )

You don't understand common reporting standards do you? All your financial dealings are recorded. You bring in foreign currency in your baggage? Where will u exchange it in thailand? Forex dealings require your passport. Where will you get Thai baht to bring into the country? In a foreign bank, of course and your foreign bank is obligated to transfer all your financial dealings with the thai tax authorities! Tax evasion is a serious crime in thailand involving enormous fines and imprisonment and exile. Is tax evasion really worth it?

[Card]

1 minute ago, MikeandDow said:

2 years is a Loooooooong time in politics,  and as i said there will be ways around it

Like how?

[oldestswinger]

12 minutes ago, Card said:

You don't understand. Foreign Credit card use to buy goods abd services in thailabd is assessable fir tax in thailand if you pay off the card debt using assessable income. All you card transactions involving what you buy and how you pay off the debt is recorded and accessible by the Thai tax authorities. If u pay fir example the card debt with savings from before 1 Jan 2024 then the card debt is not taxable in thailand.

Sorry to say it but your posts are a pain to read. Sure, everyone makes typing mistakes, but you make the same ones over and over again in your posts.

[Card]

1 minute ago, oldestswinger said:

Sorry to say it but your posts are a pain to read. Sure, everyone makes typing mistakes, but you make the same ones over and over again in your posts.

Don't read them then.

[Mattd]

1 hour ago, Briggsy said:

If they did, they never mentioned it.

Were they deducting income tax?

If so, then 100% they were filing the return on your behalf, it is done online nowadays.

[Neeranam]

5 hours ago, black tabby12345 said:

Another stupid Scare Tactics by the bunch of Crook Bas*ard for easy money for the 

Useless 'Expert Advice' on what is not really announced officially.

Another form of Scammers Capitalizing What is not in place in the first place.

 

 

 

Indeed. 

Unless Thomas Carden possesses a CPA license issued by the Federation of Accounting Professions (TFAC), which he doesn't seem to have, he is working illegally. Foreigners can't give advice on tax laws. 

[KhunHeineken]

7 hours ago, darrenrrrr said:

I am an Australia we have a double tax treaty with Thailand , clause 19 says pensions won’t be subject to tax, does this include government pension but also private pensions (that the retiree funded themselves during their working life , we call it superannuation ). Also our private pensions are tax free from 60 years old if you are fully retired which means we pay not tax on earnings such as interest and capital gains tax (CGT). As such clause 19 read also with clause 20 is a bit confusing.

 

So I am assuming if I have a regular pension payment to my Australian bank and then send over my monthly pension amount to a Thai bank is this income taxable by Thailand or it’s not considered income ?

You will also have to keep an eye out this. 

 

Plenty on the internet about it, and plenty of debate about it in the Australia Forum.  It's in the mail. 

 

Non resident tax is 30% from $0 to $135,000.   Note, that's from the first dollar.  No tax free threshold.   

 

https://hlb.com.au/tax-residency-changes-for-individuals/

 

Basically, Australia will change its 90 year old tax residency laws to a time based and physical presence model, like Thailand.

 

Outside of Australia for 183 days, non resident for for tax purposes.   

 

 

[KhunHeineken]

4 hours ago, stubuzz said:

So, buy a condo and receive a 30% tax bill the folowing year. Not going to help the housing market.

Add to that an unforeseen medical operation, and buying a new car. 

 

They both become more expensive when you get a tax bill for the remitted funds for paying form them early the next year. 

[The Cyclist]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Indeed. 

Unless Thomas Carden possesses a CPA license issued by the Federation of Accounting Professions (TFAC), which he doesn't seem to have, he is working illegally. Foreigners can't give advice on tax laws. 

 

I wonder why such a high profile individual has not been arrested ?
 

Did Mr Hart in one of his ranty videos not say that Carden was an IRS Agent ?

[KhunHeineken]

4 hours ago, koolkarl said:

Even if you paid only 100 baht, you get nothing in return except more polluted air.  Still have to do 90 day, have to report to immigration within 24 hours even if you stayed 1 nite in a hotel, max retirement visa is 1 year which is nothing more than a tourist visa, can't own land, no health care, no immigrant status, etc.  Talk about a rip off.

Yes. 

 

The price has gone up for living here, with no value added for a farang for the extra money.   

[Neeranam]

3 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

I wonder why such a high profile individual has not been arrested ?
 

Did Mr Hart in one of his ranty videos not say that Carden was an IRS Agent ?

If it considered 'local' it is illegal. He might be allowed to give cross border remittance advice to US people but....

Claiming expertise in Thai tax law without proper credentials is immoral and shows deception, as well as could lead to criminal consequences. 

Does this guy even live in Thailand?

 

[Presnock]

6 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I don't believe the Thai government has ever requested retired expats to file Thai tax returns. The wording of any official statements seems to be looking for Thai citizens to file on their overseas incomes.

 

All the claims that retired expats need to file seem to be from white crooks looking to make money from elderly and gullible foreign retirees.

earlier thsi month, an officIAL of the trd or finance ministry said all folks need to file income taxes he specifically mentioned expats and foreign tax residents will need to file for taxes

[The Cyclist]

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

If it considered 'local' it is illegal. He might be allowed to give cross border remittance advice to US people but....

Claiming expertise in Thai tax law without proper credentials is immoral and shows deception, as well as could lead to criminal consequences. 

Does this guy even live in Thailand?

 

 

I don't know him or the guy from Expattax

 

But they are both hiding in plain sight, and I think if they were acting illegally, they would have been arrested.

 

Whether they live in Thailand, I do not know, but they both represent companies that are registered in Thaialnd.

[aussienam]

Integrity Legal channel on YouTube hosted by a US lawyer who is a Thai National with an office based in Bangkok, has blasted those foreigners who have given tax advice, in breach of prohibited occupations for foreigners. 

 

He also has stated that the changes announced are still not a forgone conclusion and is potentially causing people unnecessary financial harm by scaring them into applying for a Thai tax ID. 

 

Even Thai citizens who are giving financial advice I would be wary of and not take it for granted they are correct.  

 

I believe for most expats, they will hold off unless they are communicated with relevant authorities.  In the meantime, my personal feeling is minimizing remittances into Thailand, and not remitting any large sums of money to purchase condos, vehicles, other big ticket items in case of being slammed with a huge tax bill on top.  

 

Unfortunately, a lot of the Dual Taxation Agreements are unfair (in my opinion) and outdated in their approach to retirement income, such as privately funded tax exempt pensions being taxable when remitted to Thailand, but others are exempt and therefore unaffected due to that country's tax structure, agreement, or based on pensions sourced from tax-exempt occupations. 

Also other tax exemptions and tax credits in your country may not be recognised in Thailand.  Overall most of us have paid a ton of tax in our lives and we spend a fair amount into Thailand into the community.  

 

Plus 'Plan B' considerations to resettle in another country if this all goes ahead and, like most, you don't want to have to spend under 6 months a year every year for the rest of your retirement life to protect your retirement income sources from this punitive tax. 

[MikeandDow]

1 hour ago, Card said:

Like how?

It has NOT happened Yet !! so how can you get around something if it has not happend Duh!!!

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, MikeandDow said:

There are always way around Tax laws in every country !! whether or not its illegal!!, Thai laws are the same always loop holes.!! me dont trust banks here!  dont do bank tranfers, deal in cash !! bring cash  into thailand  You can bring up to $20,000 USD or the equivalent in foreign currency into Thailand without declaring it to customs. You can also bring up to 500,000 Thai baht (THB) into the country.  I work FIFO every trip do the same been doing it for 15yrs  the old phrase "Money under the bed" works for me ( Iam a poor pensioner )

I could take in 450,000 baht without declaration from Laos, Cambodia or Myanmar. 

[MikeandDow]

3 minutes ago, aussienam said:

Integrity Legal channel on YouTube hosted by a US lawyer who is a Thai National with an office based in Bangkok, has blasted those foreigners who have given tax advice, in breach of prohibited occupations for foreigners. 

 

He also has stated that the changes announced are still not a forgone conclusion and is potentially causing people unnecessary financial harm by scaring them into applying for a Thai tax ID. 

 

Even Thai citizens who are giving financial advice I would be wary of and not take it for granted they are correct.  

 

I believe for most expats, they will hold off unless they are communicated with relevant authorities.  In the meantime, my personal feeling is minimizing remittances into Thailand, and not remitting any large sums of money to purchase condos, vehicles, other big ticket items in case of being slammed with a huge tax bill on top.  

 

Unfortunately, a lot of the Dual Taxation Agreements are unfair (in my opinion) and outdated in their approach to retirement income, such as privately funded tax exempt pensions being taxable when remitted to Thailand, but others are exempt and therefore unaffected due to that country's tax structure, agreement, or based on pensions sourced from tax-exempt occupations. 

Also other tax exemptions and tax credits in your country may not be recognised in Thailand.  Overall most of us have paid a ton of tax in our lives and we spend a fair amount into Thailand into the community.  

 

Plus 'Plan B' considerations to resettle in another country if this all goes ahead and, like most, you don't want to have to spend under 6 months a year every year for the rest of your retirement life to protect your retirement income sources from this punitive tax. 

Sound Advice!!