Thai tax tangle: Expats warned of new rules on overseas income

[oldcpu]

31 minutes ago, WebGuy said:

Didn't know that if being on LTR and getting income from abroad is not taxed. Is this really correct? 

 

If this is correct, I am closing my Thai company and switching to LTR.

 

This is correct according to Royal Decree 743 (section-5) for 3 categories of the LTR, those being Wealthy Global Citizen, Wealthy Pensioner, and Work From Thailand Professional. 

 

Some are trying to (IMHO) misinterpret the Royal Decree and claim it depends on the tax year of the income that is remitted, but my view is it makes no difference.

 

That is not to say an UNKNOWN future change in Thailand tax policy won't come about and change things - but we can only do the best we can with the information we have to date. The sky might fall also tomorrow.

.

[samtam]

1 hour ago, NoDisplayName said:

***UPDATE TO YEAR 2024 TAX FILING***

 

I filed online Jan 06 with no supporting documentation, assuming TRD had access to 2024 tax withholding data.  Maybe this was too soon?

 

Received a text message today to check the system for additional documentation request.

 

I must now provide (*):

 

1.  Certificate of withholding tax, Section 40(4)(a) Interest (bank deposits, bonds, etc.)

2.  Marriage certificate

 

(*)  ONLY if I want a refund.  The return was accepted and confirmed.  If I ignore the document request, I've still filed a valid return.  I just won't get withholding tax refunded.

 

Last year, filing late, this documentation was not requested.

 

I filed a joint return with my wife (no income), and requested refund of interest and dividend tax withholding.  I declared NO remittances, and no other income.

 

The Kenyan CRS Task Force has not arrived at my residence, and no jackbooted thugs are kicking in the door to drag me off for trial and deportation.

 

Wish me lucky!!!

 

Thanks for the update. You filed online, (is that centralised?)

Certificate of withholding tax seems rather a bother, I agree, especially as the amount (in my case) is pretty paltry. Anyway, I will ask my bank; they'll probably charge more than the refund. I do have each withholding tax item listed in my passbook, after the interest amount, but I suppose that would be too simple.

[WebGuy]

2 hours ago, oldcpu said:

 

This is correct according to Royal Decree 743 (section-5) for 3 categories of the LTR, those being Wealthy Global Citizen, Wealthy Pensioner, and Work From Thailand Professional. 

 

Some are trying to (IMHO) misinterpret the Royal Decree and claim it depends on the tax year of the income that is remitted, but my view is it makes no difference.

 

That is not to say an UNKNOWN future change in Thailand tax policy won't come about and change things - but we can only do the best we can with the information we have to date. The sky might fall also tomorrow.

.

 

Thank you. I will explore this. 

The other question would be if based on being on LTR I can apply for Thai citizenship. 

 

I am married with Thai wife and we have a daughter. I must wait for 3 years to be on non O marriage visa and then I can apply. I don't think the the response will be positive on this one.

[oldcpu]

1 minute ago, WebGuy said:

 

Thank you. I will explore this. 

The other question would be if based on being on LTR I can apply for Thai citizenship. 

 

I am married with Thai wife and we have a daughter. I must wait for 3 years to be on non O marriage visa and then I can apply. I don't think the the response will be positive on this one.

I don't know.

 

I doubt that it does. 

 

I have read no documents stating nor suggesting that the LTR provides a path to Thai citizenship. 

 

I do believe if you became a permanent resident or citizen of Thailand,  you would immediately lose all benefits that come with an LTR visa.

[NoDisplayName]

2 hours ago, samtam said:

 

Thanks for the update. You filed online, (is that centralised?)

Certificate of withholding tax seems rather a bother, I agree, especially as the amount (in my case) is pretty paltry. Anyway, I will ask my bank; they'll probably charge more than the refund. I do have each withholding tax item listed in my passbook, after the interest amount, but I suppose that would be too simple.

 

Yes, it can be a bother.  My local branch has only two service desks, and only one service clerk.  We'll get a number in the morning, go shopping, have lunch, return mid-afternoon and only have to wait half an hour.

 

My local branch can produce the withholding statement, free of charge, in about 20 minutes.  But my local branch will NOT include savings accounts.  They only provide the statement for fixed accounts.

 

YKMV

[samtam]

10 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Yes, it can be a bother.  My local branch has only two service desks, and only one service clerk.  We'll get a number in the morning, go shopping, have lunch, return mid-afternoon and only have to wait half an hour.

 

My local branch can produce the withholding statement, free of charge, in about 20 minutes.  But my local branch will NOT include savings accounts.  They only provide the statement for fixed accounts.

 

YKMV

 

I don't know whether you mentioned that you were completing a PND90 - because you're not salaried in Thailand. I've been reading about how the current 2023 PND90 forms don't take into account "inward remittances", but I shall file under "salary, wages and pensions" for everything, however it comes in, (ATM, debit card, FPS), but not foreign Credit Card, unless there is a definitive change in the latter. If it does change, it may be possible they will allow a refiling. My verbal inquiries to RD, through my Thai assistant have been "no need to include credit cards". But everything is in a state of flux, and may remain so until the end of March when RD assess whether the can of worms they have opened is counterintuitive.

[NoDisplayName]

4 minutes ago, samtam said:

 

I don't know whether you mentioned that you were completing a PND90 - because you're not salaried in Thailand. I've been reading about how the current 2023 PND90 forms don't take into account "inward remittances", but I shall file under "salary, wages and pensions" for everything, however it comes in, (ATM, debit card, FPS), but not foreign Credit Card, unless there is a definitive change in the latter. If it does change, it may be possible they will allow a refiling. My verbal inquiries to RD, through my Thai assistant have been "no need to include credit cards". But everything is in a state of flux, and may remain so until the end of March when RD assess whether the can of worms they have opened is counterintuitive.

 

PN91 is for income ONLY from employment. and is considerably shorter than the PN90 which is for income from employment AND other sources.  Interest and dividends and rental income is all other than employment.  Refund of withholding tax is only possible with PN90.

 

Think of the PN91 as sorta kinda like filing the old 1040EZ, which was a simplified version of the more complicated 1040 long-form tax return.

 

No need to declare all ATM and debit card remittances.  It comes down to the source of the funds.  It's not the ATM withdrawal itself that would be taxed, it's the current year income you're bringing in through the ATM.

 

Are you bringing in enough assessable funds to meet the requirements that you must file?

[samtam]

23 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

Are you bringing in enough assessable funds to meet the requirements that you must file?

 

I'm bringing in less than my THB500K TEDA

[samtam]

1 minute ago, samtam said:

 

I'm bringing in less than my THB500K TEDA

 

But yes, more than THB60K

[NoDisplayName]

25 minutes ago, samtam said:

 

But yes, more than THB60K

 

Now you're in the gray zone.  Technically, according to the rule..........you probably should file a return even though you will owe nothing.  But in the real world, most TRD offices seem to be telling people that if they don't owe, don't bother.

 

If you file online and put all your assessable income under employment, if it's all employment-related, your allowances should bring you to zero tax.  You can always do an online return to check the numbers, save it, but not submit until the mud has settled.

 

Or you could take your assistant to the local office, show them the numbers.  They'll either help you file a paper return, or they'll tell you to go home.

 

***NOT ADVICE.  FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY.***

[samtam]

14 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Now you're in the gray zone.  Technically, according to the rule..........you probably should file a return even though you will owe nothing.  But in the real world, most TRD offices seem to be telling people that if they don't owe, don't bother.

 

If you file online and put all your assessable income under employment, if it's all employment-related, your allowances should bring you to zero tax.  You can always do an online return to check the numbers, save it, but not submit until the mud has settled.

 

Or you could take your assistant to the local office, show them the numbers.  They'll either help you file a paper return, or they'll tell you to go home.

 

None of my assessable income is from employment, but from pension and dividends in 2024, all untaxed at source and brought in through ATM, Debit Card, FPS or Credit Card expenditure, all below my TEDA.

 

As my assistant is doing me a favour it's easier for him to do the online filing, which will result in zero tax owed. Whether the online RD recipient will just say "no tax form" required in response, I don't know. I will discuss with my assistant on Monday. I have completed the PND90 by hand for him to upload (in Thai only) on the website. The mud has not cleared on a number of issues, as you say, but I cannot see any harm in filing online. Obviously, I have all the documentary evidence in my files.

 

I would prefer RD responded, and online would certainly bring that in writing, rather than a verbal "no need" if I go in person.

 

It has of course been a monumental and cumbersome task, with anxiety from the complete lack of clarity, (or variations on verbal statements from RD).

[anrcaccount]

1 minute ago, samtam said:

 

None of my assessable income is from employment, but from pension and dividends in 2024, all untaxed at source and brought in through ATM, Debit Card, FPS or Credit Card expenditure, all below my TEDA.

 

As my assistant is doing me a favour it's easier for him to do the online filing, which will result in zero tax owed. Whether the online RD recipient will just say "no tax form" required in response, I don't know. I will discuss with him on Monday. I have completed the PND90 by hand for him to upload (in Thai only) on the website. The mud has not cleared on a number of issues, as you say, but I cannot see any harm in filing online. Obviously, I have all the documentary evidence in my files.

 

I would prefer RD responded, and online would certainly bring that in writing, rather than a verbal "no need" if I go in person.

 

It has of course been a monumental and cumbersome task, with anxiety from the complete lack of clarity, (or variations on verbal statements from RD).

 

You're probably the first person they have ever come across who has attempted to file in this manner, and the first time they've ever seen the that detail of remitted income.

 

Don't be surprised, if you find this is much more trouble than it was worth.