Thai tax tangle: Expats warned of new rules on overseas income

[The Cyclist]

2 minutes ago, Badrabbit said:

I would get a TIN but it's very difficult to obtain, documents from your home country, translated into Thai by the Thai embassy in Bangkok, authentication by your countries embassy, ridiculous.

 

 

I'm not sure that is correct.

 

Neither do I know your circumstances. However, if your local RD is telling you no TIN and no file, just keep your all your paperwork, take a photo outside the RD Office, and keep it safe and sound in an envelope marked " Thai Tax Year 2024 "

 

How good that might be, I have no idea, but it will certainly be better than having nothing, should you get invited for an interview, audited, or otherwise investigated.

[anchadian]

5 minutes ago, Badrabbit said:

I would get a TIN but it's very difficult to obtain, documents from your home country, translated into Thai by the Thai embassy in Bangkok, authentication by your countries embassy, ridiculous.

 

Then don't get one.  Problem solved and certainly don't pay Expat tax THB7,000

[Badrabbit]

1 minute ago, The Cyclist said:

 

I'm not sure that is correct.

 

Neither do I know your circumstances. However, if your local RD is telling you no TIN and no file, just keep your all your paperwork, take a photo outside the RD Office, and keep it safe and sound in an envelope marked " Thai Tax Year 2024 "

 

How good that might be, I have no idea, but it will certainly be better than having nothing, should you get invited for an interview, audited, or otherwise investigated.

Investigated or audited who do you think I am?

I'm a nobody bringing in less than 1 mill per year, pay tax in the UK, this is a ridiculous.

[Badrabbit]

2 minutes ago, anchadian said:

Then don't get one.  Problem solved and certainly don't pay Expat tax THB7,000

I wasn't going to pay 7,000 bht, just asking.

[lordgrinz]

1 minute ago, Badrabbit said:

Investigated or audited who do you think I am?

I'm a nobody bringing in less than 1 mill per year, pay tax in the UK, this is a ridiculous.

 

Which makes you richer than 97% of Thai's, so you're known as an ATM here, enjoy your stay.

[Badrabbit]

5 minutes ago, lordgrinz said:

 

Which makes you richer than 97% of Thai's, so you're known as an ATM here, enjoy your stay.

Yea it's been a good 17 years so far.

[The Cyclist]

9 minutes ago, Badrabbit said:

Investigated or audited who do you think I am?

I'm a nobody bringing in less than 1 mill per year, pay tax in the UK, this is a ridiculous.

 

Hate to point this out.

 

But 1 million Baht year is the stuff that many Thais can only dream of.

 

So for a Westerner, 1 million baht a year is small money, you're not in the West, and it does make you a larger fish in the Thai fish pond.

[Misty]

On 1/18/2025 at 7:29 PM, samtam said:

 

None of my assessable income is from employment, but from pension and dividends in 2024, all untaxed at source and brought in through ATM, Debit Card, FPS or Credit Card expenditure, all below my TEDA.

 

As my assistant is doing me a favour it's easier for him to do the online filing, which will result in zero tax owed. Whether the online RD recipient will just say "no tax form" required in response, I don't know. I will discuss with my assistant on Monday. I have completed the PND90 by hand for him to upload (in Thai only) on the website. The mud has not cleared on a number of issues, as you say, but I cannot see any harm in filing online. Obviously, I have all the documentary evidence in my files.

 

I would prefer RD responded, and online would certainly bring that in writing, rather than a verbal "no need" if I go in person.

 

It has of course been a monumental and cumbersome task, with anxiety from the complete lack of clarity, (or variations on verbal statements from RD).

 

Hi Samtam, Please can you post a link to where to complete the 2024 PND90 online? I've been trying to get a pdf of the new 2024 form and have only come up with old forms and translations. 

 

My apologies if this form is widely available - I've used google search broadly and also on this form and not been able to find the pdf. Just a lot of discussion about it.

 

Thank you !

[anrcaccount]

1 hour ago, Badrabbit said:

I've received an email from Expat Thailand  they get the TIN for you at a cost of 7,000bht.

Is this good, all they need is your passport and vise page (copies).

 

If you're really committed to getting one, you can get it for half that price, 3500THB  with "thailawonline".

 

I believe other firms/ agents can do it for around that price also. 

 

So the price you're being quoted is not good at all, IMO predatory, just like much of what that type of agency is offering.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[oldcpu]

30 minutes ago, Misty said:

 

Hi Samtam, Please can you post a link to where to complete the 2024 PND90 online? I've been trying to get a pdf of the new 2024 form and have only come up with old forms and translations. 

 

My apologies if this form is widely available - I've used google search broadly and also on this form and not been able to find the pdf. Just a lot of discussion about it.

 

 

 

I am not Samtam. ...  and likely as you know re: RD web site tax forms ...

 

You can find Thai language tax forms here:
https://www.rd.go.th/65971.html

 

2024 Thai language (and even 2025 Thai language) tax forms are available for download.

 

However on the English language only thus far year 2023 tax form:
https://www.rd.go.th/english/65308.html

 

That sort of begs the question, if attention is being paid to expats in Thailand (with an intent to tax them) why the delay in 2024 English language Thai tax forms?

 

From here on end this is pure speculation by me ...

 

One speculative answer could be they are redesigning the English language tax form with different entries. I suppose that possible, but nominally in the past, it looked to me that both the English language and Thai language tax forms were mostly aligned, and had the same content (but with different language wording). So if there were to be big changes in the English language tax form, I would expect the same in the 2024/2025 Thai language forms. But there were no big changes.

 

Another speculative answer is there may be debate within the RD as to whether they will continue to provide English language tax forms, and until the internal debate is sorted, there will only be Thai language tax forms for year 2024.  Of course, if Thai RD is very keen to tax foreigners, why would they delay putting out the 2024 tax forms ?  or could it be rushing to tax foreigners is not as high on the Thai RD priority list as some may think?

 

Again - pure speculation.

 

[CallumWK]

10 hours ago, oldcpu said:

note the words "may be taxed" ...  That suggests to me both states (Thailand and Belgium) may be able to tax the pension.

 

That is also what my embassy informed me about in 2023.

 

The tax on my pension is covered by the DTA, so I get taxed on it in Belgium. But if I remit it to Thailand, and the tax scale in Thailand is higher than Belgium, I will pay the difference in Thailand.

Of course there was no mention of what happens if the tax scale in Thailand is lower.

And now, my pension isn't taxed in Belgium, because I'm below the threshold. I receive annually about 500K baht pension.

What happens if I remit this to Thailand, as i believe the threshold for being tax free is much lower here

 

[oldcpu]

1 minute ago, CallumWK said:

 

That is also what my embassy informed me about in 2023.

 

The tax on my pension is covered by the DTA, so I get taxed on it in Belgium. But if I remit it to Thailand, and the tax scale in Thailand is higher than Belgium, I will pay the difference in Thailand.

Of course there was no mention of what happens if the tax scale in Thailand is lower.

And now, my pension isn't taxed in Belgium, because I'm below the threshold. I receive annually about 500K baht pension.

What happens if I remit this to Thailand, as i believe the threshold for being tax free is much lower here

 

 

I think, as you note, understanding the exact levels of the taxation thresholds, will dictate how much money you can remit to Thailand before Thailand taxation sets in. 

 

I guess this becomes a 'numbers game' at a certain point of time for you, in order to legally manage your Thailand tax exposure.  .... Don't forget there is por-161/162 (ie foreign savings/income prior to 1-Jan-2024 not taxed if remitted to Thailand any time in the future).

 

Best wishes.

[Bangel72]

Has anyone done there 2024 tax returns yet? 

 

The following on the face of it seems reasonably straight forward. 

 

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/user_upload/lorkhor/newspr/2024/FOREIGNERS_PAY_TAX2024.pdf

 

However what counts as evidence for both the idea that money brought into thailand was all earned before 1st Jan 2024 or taxed abroad under a double tax treaty may prove problematic. 

 

Worth getting bank statements from foreign accounts from end of 2023 and if I never bring in more than that ever I wonder if that would suffice.

 

Edit - there may be people who have not declared non-resident in there own country even though in Thailand for over 180 days - they may be forced to do that now. How that impacts tax free allowance in foreign country or now if that could be taxed in thailand might be an interesting part.

 

Most people do not seem to be the targets of this initiative but may get caught in the crossfire due to lack of documentation and evidence rather than legitimately liable to pay tax in Thailand. 

[CallumWK]

1 minute ago, oldcpu said:

Don't forget there is por-161/162 (ie foreign savings/income prior to 1-Jan-2024 not taxed if remitted to Thailand any time in the future).

 

My pension started on January 2024, so virtually all money in the bank is from before 2024, but I'm not gonna gamble to send it here lol

[samtam]

1 hour ago, Misty said:

 

Hi Samtam, Please can you post a link to where to complete the 2024 PND90 online? I've been trying to get a pdf of the new 2024 form and have only come up with old forms and translations. 

 

My apologies if this form is widely available - I've used google search broadly and also on this form and not been able to find the pdf. Just a lot of discussion about it.

 

Thank you !

 

Only 2024 in Thai is available online, under

https://www.rd.go.th/65971.html

[oldcpu]

16 minutes ago, Bangel72 said:

Has anyone done there 2024 tax returns yet? 

 

The following on the face of it seems reasonably straight forward. 

 

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/user_upload/lorkhor/newspr/2024/FOREIGNERS_PAY_TAX2024.pdf

 

However what counts as evidence for both the idea that money brought into thailand was all earned before 1st Jan 2024 or taxed abroad under a double tax treaty may prove problematic. 

 

I think where many of us struggle, is when we look at the English language Thai tax form for tax-year 2023 (the English language year 2024 Thai tax form is not yet out) and when we look at the Thai language year 2024 tax form (and even the 2025 Thai tax form which is out) there is no place to list exemptions such as those noted in a DTA (between Thailand and one's income sourced country), no place to list an exemption for remitted income that is exempt per Por-161/162, and no place to list an exemption for income per the LTR visa for LTR-WP, LTR-WFTP, and LTR-WGC visa holders. 

 

If one goes ahead, uses the 2023 tax form (for year 2024) and puts the exemption in a field it is not intended, the risk is Thailand RD could reject the exemption and tax one the full amount on income that is legally exempt. Then one is into appeal territory and this starts to get very very painful.

 

This is nothing new.  DTAs have have been around for a long time and foreign remitted income was always table in Thailand if remitted to Thailand in the year it was earned.  Yet there has deliberately been no place for DTA tax exemptions in the Thai tax forms for years.  This has lead a number of us to speculate that if a DTA makes it clear Thailand can not tax a foreign income, then that foreign income should not be entered into a Thai tax form.

 

Of course this gets more complicated when the DTA states Thailand may tax the foreign income, and trying to find the location in the tax form to deal with this (so not to be double taxed) is not very obvious (to me). Fortunately, I am not in that situation.

 

 

16 minutes ago, Bangel72 said:

Most people do not seem to be the targets of this initiative but may get caught in the crossfire due to lack of documentation and evidence rather than legitimately liable to pay tax in Thailand. 

 

This has always been a concern, I believe, of many in this thread and in other AseanNow threads.

.

[oldcpu]

15 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

 

My pension started on January 2024, so virtually all money in the bank is from before 2024, but I'm not gonna gamble to send it here lol

 

If you have the financial luxury to wait it out (before remitting to Thailand) while the need to file or not file a Thai tax return (for pre-1-Jan-2024 remitted income to Thailand), that might be a good idea. 

 

Currently there is no place on the English language 2023 Thai tax form to list por-161/162 exempt savings as being tax exempt, nor any place on the Thai language 2024/2025 tax forms to list por-161/162 exempt savings as being tax exempt. 

 

Yet despite that, many claim one must still list those incomes, and presumably put the exemption entry in the wrong place in the tax forms (as there is no correct place to locates such - where RD Thailand could then reject the exemption and tax one the full amount).  Its a bit of a catch-22 ....

 

... and given its a bit of a catch-22, it is good if you have the luxury to wait it out.  That is also my strategy.

[samtam]

11 minutes ago, samtam said:

 

Only 2024 in Thai is available online, under

https://www.rd.go.th/65971.html

 

If you have a TIN you can E-File under this:

https://efiling.rd.go.th/rd-cms/

 

Again, only in Thai, and the latest is 2024 (2567).

[Bangel72]

27 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

 

That is also what my embassy informed me about in 2023.

 

The tax on my pension is covered by the DTA, so I get taxed on it in Belgium. But if I remit it to Thailand, and the tax scale in Thailand is higher than Belgium, I will pay the difference in Thailand.

Of course there was no mention of what happens if the tax scale in Thailand is lower.

And now, my pension isn't taxed in Belgium, because I'm below the threshold. I receive annually about 500K baht pension.

What happens if I remit this to Thailand, as i believe the threshold for being tax free is much lower here

 

This I think is a key question with huge impact.

 

If tax free threshold in Thailand in 60k and you remit 500k which was tax free in home country would 440k be taxed even with double taxation in place?

 

Retiring in Thailand would be hit hard if that's the case.

 

 

[oldcpu]

8 minutes ago, Bangel72 said:

This I think is a key question with huge impact.

 

If tax free threshold in Thailand in 60k and you remit 500k which was tax free in home country would 440k be taxed even with double taxation in place?

 

Retiring in Thailand would be hit hard if that's the case.

 

 

 

I think one can put together an exemption package much larger than 60k THB.  Will it reach 500k ?  I don't know - i suspect it depends on one's age, one's marital status ... etc.

 

Others have posted about this on this forum.

[oldcpu]

6 hours ago, Guavaman said:

How about a third possible interpretation?  Something like this:

3) There is no need to present a [copy of one's national] tax return in Thailand. Except in cases where it is necessary to show it to the agency that needs it only [such as offices of the Revenue Department for the process of calculation of tax on assessable income or for audits.]

 

That is an interpretation , but it is not one I speculate is the planned case. 

 

Why?

 

Because I believe the word "no need to present [a copy of one's foreign] tax return in Thailand" would have the word 'foreign' used.  ie. the word 'foreign' would be inserted.

 

The word 'foreign' was not inserted.

 

This is Thailand. When the Thailand RD talks of a tax return, unless otherwise very specifically and definitely specified (by typing the word "foreign") one assumes they are talking of a Thailand tax return. Not talking of a 'foreign' tax return.

 

Again  - There was no mention of 'foreign' tax return,  .... only in prior sentence a note of DTAs. So we both see different interpretations.

 

I am curious to learn how this will all plan out.  As each day goes by I am glad I took precautions in previous years to be able to ride out things financially when uncertainties such as these tax interpretations and ambiguities are in place.

 

 

[oldcpu]

38 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

This is nothing new.  DTAs have have been around for a long time and foreign remitted income was always table in Thailand if remitted to Thailand in the year it was earned.  Yet there has deliberately been no place for DTA tax exemptions in the Thai tax forms for years.  This has lead a number of us to speculate that if a DTA makes it clear Thailand can not tax a foreign income, then that foreign income should not be entered into a Thai tax form.

 

Damn auto spell check/correction  (on my computer software).

 

I meant to type "taxable" and not "table" in the above. The 'edit' time timed out before I noticed my typo

[The Cyclist]

9 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

I think one can put together an exemption package much larger than 60k THB.  Will it reach 500k ?  I don't know - i suspect it depends on one's age, one's marital status ... etc.

 

The filing levels are quite clear 60k / 120k / 220 k, depending on the income and if you file as a single person or as a couple.

 

They are set in stone in the Revenue Code.

 

The level where an individual becomes liable to pay tax. Will vary greatly between individuals

 

As a single man under 65, my taxation level  would be 310k Baht.

 

60k for me

 

100k for Pension

 

1st 150k zero tax rated.

 

 

[GarryP]

20 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

I think one can put together an exemption package much larger than 60k THB.  Will it reach 500k ?  I don't know - i suspect it depends on one's age, one's marital status ... etc.

 

Others have posted about this on this forum.

I submitted my tax form for 2024 online. Baht 60,000 for yourself and the same amount again if you are married and your wife is not working. There are also other things that can be added to exemptions. However, I really don't see how these apply to retirees bringing in a pension from overseas. My filing was done on the basis of working in Thailand, and I have been doing these filings for many years. The whole system for foreign retirees in Thailand needs adjusting (if they are truly going to enforce it) because the tax form currently used is not reallly appropriate. 

 

FWIW, I have no idea what I'll have to do next year as I am now retired and all my savings are in Thailand, and won't be drawing a UK pension until 2029. I'm just assuming I won't have to do anything.  

[4myr]

1 hour ago, oldcpu said:

 

Another speculative answer is there may be debate within the RD as to whether they will continue to provide English language tax forms, and until the internal debate is sorted, there will only be Thai language tax forms for year 2024.  Of course, if Thai RD is very keen to tax foreigners, why would they delay putting out the 2024 tax forms ?  or could it be rushing to tax foreigners is not as high on the Thai RD priority list as some may think?

 

Again - pure speculation.

 

 

I tend to agree on your last speculation - no rushing to tax foreigners as earning/cost ratio for foreigner tax residents is lower than for Thai residents.

 

Here is my logic:

 

1) the rule changes apply to both Thai as foreigner tax residents. CRS is in place and TRD know more on foreign assets of Thai residents than they do on foreign assets of foreigner residents. 

2) Thai residents are not covered by DTA's as foreigners and taxable income of foreigners are alleviated by possibly already taxed income in source country [check Chiang mai TRD 2 way tax calculations notice] 

3) I read the google translated Thai guide on PND90 [ https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/tax_pdf/pit/2567/Ins90_101067.pdf ]. I have not read any new specific guidance with regards to foreigners or foreign sourced income.

 

[NoDisplayName]

3 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Just over 2 weeks ago I went to the Big RD Office and asked if I needed to file a tax return for my UK Government Pension.

 

The lady said yes and I asked her how I go about filing as I had never done it before. She then went and got a PND 91 and filled it in with pencil for me to use as a template. Posted the whole thing on here, including a photo of the PND 91.

 

 

Are you starting to panic ?
 

I told you my Gov Pension is only taxable in UK due to DTA ( Please note, yet again. That No DTA, stipulates whether a Pension is assessable or non assessable in Thailand )

 

 * Excluslive / Primary / Secondary taxing rights ( Or words to that effect )

 

Tax is deducted at source on my UK Gov Pension

 

I posted a photo of the PND 91 she draft filled in for me.

 

Yes, you went to the tax office in podunk Pak Chong and put an uniformed oxygen sink on the spot, pointed out a misteak, and forced her to come up with something on the spot to avoid admitting her error.

 

However,...............nothing she did at that point was in accordance with Thai tax regulations.  She simply deducted the entire amount by plugging a number into a non-relevant blank.

 

And yes, you posted a "draft" tax return.  But you didn't file, did you?  All your nonsense postings are based on a penciled in form incorrectly filled out by a frightened office lady who came up with something on the spot to get rid of the pesky foreigner.

 

You did not file a tax return.  Your story doesn't even rise to anecdote, let alone data.

 

But first, I want you to provide specific instructions for how to:

 

1)  claim foreign tax credit on Thai tax return

2)  claim DTA benefit and deduct non-assessable income declared in section 1.

 

Indicate which lines on the tax forms where I enter the numbers, and cite the tax code.  You can't, it's unpossible.

 

Go to the local tax office you report to and submit that "draft", have it accepted and approved.  Then we'll talk. 

 

 

 

 

 

[The Cyclist]

11 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

Yes, you went to the tax office in podunk Pak Chong and put an uniformed oxygen sink on the spot, pointed out a misteak, and forced her to come up with something on the spot to avoid admitting her error.

 

I'll bet that the person you refer to as a " Uniformed oxygen sink " can spell mistake.

 

12 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

But first, I want you to provide specific instructions for how to:

 

1)  claim foreign tax credit on Thai tax return

2)  claim DTA benefit and deduct non-assessable income declared in section 1.

 

Do you really ?
 

Guess what. Keep wanting.

 

I could not care less what you want, what you think, or that you are panicking over this.

 

Perhaps, it might be pertinent for you, to visit your local RD Office, and enquire what they require from you.

 

Rather than being a total trumpet on here.

[aluc]

4 hours ago, Badrabbit said:

I've received an email from Expat Thailand  they get the TIN for you at a cost of 7,000bht.

Is this good, all they need is your passport and vise page (copies).

Sounds like a great deal. 

Last week I get my TIN, paid 10 baht for two stamp duties.

[NoDisplayName]

14 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

I'll bet that the person you refer to as a " Uniformed oxygen sink " can spell mistake.

 

 

Do you really ?
 

Guess what. Keep wanting.

 

I could not care less what you want, what you think, or that you are panicking over this.

 

Perhaps, it might be pertinent for you, to visit your local RD Office, and enquire what they require from you.

 

Rather than being a total trumpet on here.

 

Silly, the misteak was intended.

 

I did visit my tax office.  Showed the lady a list of my remittances.  She asked "salary or pension"?  I said neither, prior savings.  She said non-assessable is not reported, no filing necessary unless requesting a refund of withholding tax.

 

I filed online last year 2021, 2022, 2023 taxes, declared no remitted income, had them approved, and received refunds.

 

I filed online (Jan 04) my 2024 return, declared no remitted income, had it approved.  Got a system request to provide marriage certificate (filing jointly) and bank withholding statement (surprisingly not requested last year).  I'll wait until next month to get the bank statement, no point in making two trips downtown.  I've already filed.  I've got an accepted return and an official receipt.

 

Now tell us about YOU filing your draft.

 

[NoDisplayName]

1 hour ago, Bangel72 said:

This I think is a key question with huge impact.

 

If tax free threshold in Thailand in 60k and you remit 500k which was tax free in home country would 440k be taxed even with double taxation in place?

 

Retiring in Thailand would be hit hard if that's the case.

 

 

 

Unsure if "tax-free" in home country is the relevant question.

 

Is the money assessable by Thailand?  Is it covered under your DTA?