Thai tax tangle: Expats warned of new rules on overseas income

[NoDisplayName]

6 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

I believe it was actually the RD Official that actually entered it onto the computer. So if there is an error, that error was caused by the RD Official.

 

Never entered into the Thai system computer.

He deducted the foreign tax paid from his assessable remittance prior to declaring the assessable remittance.

 

As he was above the threshold for incoming assessable remittances, he had to file.  As the amount of assessable income was below his TEDA and the 0% tax bracket, he owed no tax.

 

Likely the TRD lady accepted his assessable income declaration amount, since it came out to the same result......and she wouldn't have to spend time correcting the error.

 

Or perhaps she knew something we also know.  There is no space on the tax return to deduct foreign tax paid as a direct credit against tax due.

 

Actually claiming that tax credit would  require manual intervention by the officer accepting the form.

 

Too much trouble.

 

12 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

If he has already filed, how  can I be giving him advice ?

 

You are making claims, giving incorrect advice to posters that somehow know less about this than you.  Advice that can cost them.

 

In this case, instead of reducing his potential tax due by the full 39,000 baht foreign tax paid, he would only see a potential 2,000 baht savings by removing the tax paid from the remittance amount prior to declaring.

 

Something that, according to you, is illegal under CRS rules.

 

[The Cyclist]

1 minute ago, NoDisplayName said:

Never entered into the Thai system computer.

 

Ohhhh shut up and go back and check his original post.

 

Entered on computer and printed off a no tax to pay document.

 

3 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

ou are making claims, giving incorrect advice to posters that somehow know less about this than you.  Advice that can cost them.

 

 Go and report me or shut your piehole.

 

 

[anrcaccount]

49 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Are you somewhat challenged ?
 

I never mentioned anything about a tax credit being deducted from anywhere.

 

 

Mentalism at its finest

 

Posting a copy of the RD Credit Method. Is not giving anyone advice.

 

I said I believed he had done the right thing in filing. I made not a single comment on what he did to file, during the filing, or finishing his filing.

 

Now cease and desist with your absolute claptrap,sort your English comprehension skills out, or I will start reporting every post you make, when your comprehension skills are abysmal.

 

 

 

You're the guy that argued you need to list all your remitted income on a tax residency declaration form to a Thai bank. 

 

You then proceeded to be fixated on CRS as a bogeyman, that required every remitted transaction to be shared and declared.

 

Next, onto the next phantom fixation with declaring items that are clearly exempt, when multiple sources agree that there's no need to declare it, if it's exempt. 

 

Now, starting to talk about reporting posts for comprehension. 

 

We have someone so obstinate, they simply cannot accept when they're wildly inaccurate, despite being clearly shown many times.

 

 

 

 

[The Cyclist]

8 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

You're the guy that argued you need to list all your remitted income on a tax residency declaration form to a Thai bank. 

 

Nope, I said this is how I would have filled in the form. That is not arguing.

 

If you cannot get that correct, no point in reading anymore of your comment.

 

Now I really got to ask myself, why you, gant, and a couple of others are so enthralled about what I do with tax filing ?
 

Are you all one and the same person ? You all appear to suffer from the same affliction, bad English comprehension skills.

 

Or are you scared that someone doing what they believe to be the correct thing, puts a target on your back ?
 

It must be something. They way you all cannot accept that someone can read something differently and take a different course of action, is not normal behaviour.

 

You're acting like a pack of soi dogs.

 

Not one of you is qualified to question my interpretation, and I will do what I believe to be the correct thing to stay sweet within Thai bureaucracy, even it turns to be not actually needed. No harm done. 

[NoDisplayName]

37 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Ohhhh shut up and go back and check his original post.

 

Entered on computer and printed off a no tax to pay document.

 

Go and report me or shut your piehole.

 

O'tay!  Let's!

 

The pensions concerned and aggregated are: UK Teachers Pension (deemed private pension scheme by HMRC) a Prudential Annuity (private scheme) and a small UK State Pension. HMRC add all these sources of income and then deduct UK tax accordingly. It is the UK Tax assessment for 2024/25 which I printed out to present to the TRD as evidence, and, until told otherwise, claimed as Tax Credit which I unilaterally deducted from my total remittances.

 

I declared the full total of two inward remittances on my spreadsheet, then deducted the Baht equivalent of UK PAYE tax deducted on my UK pensions (42.30 exchange rate).

 

And his response to my questions, he deducted tax paid from inward assessable remittances on HIS spreadsheet, then TRD lady used that number as the base for calculating tax.  She did not award him a tax credit.

 

Could you explain how the foreign tax deduction was claimed on the tax form?

It wasn't claimed on the form.

 

Was this just the tax official acknowledging that you paid some tax (yes) but not used in the calculations, (No. It was used as the base for calculation. I declared I had deducted it) or was it actually deducted at some point from your tax due? 

 

 

[NoDisplayName]

11 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Now I really got to ask myself, why you, gant, and a couple of others are so enthralled about what I do with tax filing ?

 

You haven't filed.

[The Cyclist]

6 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

The pensions concerned and aggregated are: UK Teachers Pension (deemed private pension scheme by HMRC) a Prudential Annuity (private scheme) and a small UK State Pension. HMRC add all these sources of income and then deduct UK tax accordingly. It is the UK Tax assessment for 2024/25 which I printed out to present to the TRD as evidence, and, until told otherwise, claimed as Tax Credit which I unilaterally deducted from my total remittances.

 

Well done you belter. That is not the original post.

 

The original post had, as I previously said, a comment on the printed out " No tax to Pay " sheet of paper.

 

Yes, your piehole is gaping

[NoDisplayName]

6 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Well done you belter. That is not the original post.

 

The original post had, as I previously said, a comment on the printed out " No tax to Pay " sheet of paper.

 

 

 

Oops!  You caught me!

 

I read ALL of his posts, and referenced the pertinent information.

 

Try it.

 

**EDIT**

 

So here's a quote from his original post:

 

my own Excel spreadsheet in English (with Google Translated Thai) showing MY calculations;

 

a print-out from Gov UK HMRC web-site of UK tax deducted from all UK pensions for Tax Year 2024-25

 

My spreadsheet declared the two large payments brought into Thailand (with dates) and, on my own initiative, unilaterally deducted Baht equivalent of UK Tax paid, about 39,000 Baht (proof above) showing new reduced total of inward remittances. Then deducted 100,000 Baht 'expenses' allowed against income. 

 

She worked entirely from my figures on my Excel Spreadsheet, put all the information into her computer, then entered all the numbers (which I didn't fully understand and omitted or pencilled-in) on my Form 90. 

 

She knew nothing of the Thai/UK DTA, but accepted my 'evidence above' along with my figure for claiming credit for tax already paid in UK.

 

Seems to be a lot you overlooked here.

[The Cyclist]

2 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

You haven't filed.

 

And why does that concern you ?
 

It must be something for you to follow me about like a little puppy that keeps pooping on the floor.

[Wyabcp]

On 1/19/2025 at 3:24 PM, KhunHeineken said:

My reason for using an agent is more for the protection of my money, not due to lack of affordability. 

 

It was a no brainer when the 800k kept invested in my home country more than paid for the agent.

 

 

 

This is a good point, never thought of keeping the investment in home country (UK) for me, invested correctly would help a lot. Could you let me know which agent you used please?  and if possible cost ? thanks

[Nik23]

Good evening to all!                                                                                                                                                                                                           Does anyone has any experience, regarding, what is the RD's view on ATM withdrawals?

Do we have to declare them?Or is best  to do nothing (at least this year )and wait for more clarity on this matter?

Has anyone here declare ATM withdrawals ?

[The Cyclist]

The most clear and concise presentation that I have come across yet.

 

Given by a Thai, who is a Tax Consultant, who one could reasonably expect to know what he is talking about.

 

 

The example he uses is US Social Security, and by extension, will also apply to every other source of income that falls under the  Exclusive Taxation Rights clause of a DTA.

 

1. Receive and remit that US Social Security in the year you are a tax resident, it is assessable income.

 

2. It is not subject to Thai Tax, due to the Exclusive Taxation Rights clause of a DTA.

 

I think that the perceived wisdom is, if you have assessable income ( above 60 / 120 / 220k Baht ) you must file a tax return.

 

I think that is generally known in Thailand as filing a ' Null ' tax return.

[anchadian]

Quoted on one of my Thai banks fund confirmation notes is a 13 digit tax ID number  เลขประจําตัวผู้เสียภาษีอากร / Tax ID. No : 09........

 

Is this the actual TIN or the bank's own tax fund number?

 

[anrcaccount]

1 hour ago, The Cyclist said:

The most clear and concise presentation that I have come across yet.

 

Given by a Thai, who is a Tax Consultant, who one could reasonably expect to know what he is talking about.

 

 

The example he uses is US Social Security, and by extension, will also apply to every other source of income that falls under the  Exclusive Taxation Rights clause of a DTA.

 

1. Receive and remit that US Social Security in the year you are a tax resident, it is assessable income.

 

2. It is not subject to Thai Tax, due to the Exclusive Taxation Rights clause of a DTA.

 

I think that the perceived wisdom is, if you have assessable income ( above 60 / 120 / 220k Baht ) you must file a tax return.

 

I think that is generally known in Thailand as filing a ' Null ' tax return.

 

Please, stop, spreading this rubbish.

 

It's been clearly established by multiple sources that (remitted) US Social security income does not need to be declared on a Thai tax return. 

 

If that is someones only Thai income, no tax return need be filed at all.

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

 

Please, stop, spreading this rubbish.

 

It's been clearly established by multiple sources that (remitted) US Social security income does not need to be declared on a Thai tax return. 

 

If that is someones only Thai income, no tax return need be filed at all.

That's where I'm at now with that.

But in fairness, like a lot of this stuff, disagreements exist.

The recent tax topic speaker at the Pattaya City Expat Club (not endorsing) said that income like that can not be put on filing forms, but they are adding a custom memo page to declare income like that.

They suggest that would be a wise proactive action if audited later on the issue (comparing to remittances).

Personally, I wouldn't do that. It seems to me with good records you wouldn't need to do that.

[SHA 2 BKK]

2 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

The most clear and concise presentation that I have come across yet.

 

Given by a Thai, who is a Tax Consultant, who one could reasonably expect to know what he is talking about.

 

 

The example he uses is US Social Security, and by extension, will also apply to every other source of income that falls under the  Exclusive Taxation Rights clause of a DTA.

 

1. Receive and remit that US Social Security in the year you are a tax resident, it is assessable income.

 

2. It is not subject to Thai Tax, due to the Exclusive Taxation Rights clause of a DTA.

 

I think that the perceived wisdom is, if you have assessable income ( above 60 / 120 / 220k Baht ) you must file a tax return.

 

I think that is generally known in Thailand as filing a ' Null ' tax return.

 

I found this quite a poor video.  No mention of pre 2024 saving remittances or LTR Visas that via Royal Decree are not subject to the same taxation treatment.  Seems like a cage fight, Benjamin vs Siam Legal vs Carl Turner and we are the poor buggers in the audience trying to heads or tails the whole affair.

[The Cyclist]

16 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

 

Please, stop, spreading this rubbish.

 

It's been clearly established by multiple sources that (remitted) US Social security income does not need to be declared on a Thai tax return. 

 

If that is someones only Thai income, no tax return need be filed at all.

 

Why do you need to come charging out the blocks and blame the messenger ?
 

Here is what to do, take this

 

 

Phone Siam Legal and ask to get put through to Dhanabol, the Tax Accountant, and tell him he is spreading rubbish.

 

Be sure to give him your tax credentials, and highlight that you are so clued up and on top of the tax game, that apparently you do not even know your own TIN

 

1 hour ago, anchadian said:

Is this the actual TIN or the bank's own tax fund number?

 

[The Cyclist]

2 minutes ago, SHA 2 BKK said:

I found this quite a poor video.  No mention of pre 2024 saving remittances

 

TBF, it was a short video and only addressed specific points.

 

I don't think there is any argument that Pre 2024 Savings are exempt, but keep on top of the paperwork.

 

3 minutes ago, SHA 2 BKK said:

LTR Visas that via Royal Decree are not subject to the same taxation treatment.

 

Don't know anything about the LTR.

 

4 minutes ago, SHA 2 BKK said:

Seems like a cage fight, Benjamin vs Siam Legal vs Carl Turner and we are the poor buggers in the audience trying to heads or tails the whole affair.

 

Yes, I agree

 

So I have no idea why posters on here need to go on the attack when people post things that are pertinent, and by people, who by all accounts, are actually qualified to speak.

[The Cyclist]

20 minutes ago, SHA 2 BKK said:

Seems like a cage fight, Benjamin vs Siam Legal vs Carl Turner and we are the poor buggers in the audience trying to heads or tails the whole affair.

 

And right on cue, here is Benjamin

 

 

 

Yes Ben a Single wire transfer will probably not be a taxable event.

 

12 monthly wire transfers to a Thai Tax Resident, will mostly likely be a taxable event, how much tax, if any will, depend on the DTA

[redwood1]

15 minutes ago, SHA 2 BKK said:

 

I found this quite a poor video.  No mention of pre 2024 saving remittances or LTR Visas that via Royal Decree are not subject to the same taxation treatment.  Seems like a cage fight, Benjamin vs Siam Legal vs Carl Turner and we are the poor buggers in the audience trying to heads or tails the whole affair.

 

Seems like a cage fight, Benjamin vs Siam Legal vs Carl Turner

 

 

These tax advice giving farangs will be put in Prison soon for doing a job reserved for Thais......

It will not be easy for these  charlatans  to continue to give their self serving tax advice from the Bangkok Hilton....

[4myr]

I'm still in the woods whether I need to file, even though I have remitted income that Thai RD on paper confirmed that it is not seen as taxable - savings and income prior 2024.

 

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/user_upload/lorkhor/newspr/2024/FOREIGNERS_PAY_TAX2024.pdf 

 

Expat Tax Thailand is most clear on this topic [ I do not need to file ], in this video: https://www.expattaxthailand.com/do-you-need-to-file/. However their latest interview with 2 RD tax experts made it less clear. Siam Legal did not answer, nor Benjamin Hart.

 

Some in this forum has chosen a route by filing a nil return. At least you can show evidence even though the rules whether to file are not clear to me.

 

Some is very vocal in saying you have to file, because any remitted income is assessable.

I am not buying this argument, as the current 2024 Thai forms only allow a listed Revenue code TEDA exemptions and allowances, that has not been changed between 2023/2024.

When I last visited the RD local office, the lady showed a tax calculation that cannot be represented in the form, so is to me not transparent and not usable for future audits, as it will only available in the records of RD.

 

So for now my attitude is to wait and see for a few weeks if there is more news and then make up my mind.

 

[lordgrinz]

I am so glad I didn't make a single remittance in 2024, and will try hard not to do so in 2025 either. I figure by spring of next year (2026), this should have all been sorted, with more than enough anecdotal cases to study.

[Jim Blue]

On 1/22/2025 at 6:46 AM, Badrabbit said:

Strange question, they get the TIN for you.

Thanks I got my 13  digit tax no. at the tax office near VT condo res in about 3 min for 20 baht. I thought it was a bit expensive until she explained it was for the photocopy fee?????

[Expat68]

1 hour ago, 4myr said:

I'm still in the woods whether I need to file, even though I have remitted income that Thai RD on paper confirmed that it is not seen as taxable - savings and income prior 2024.

 

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/user_upload/lorkhor/newspr/2024/FOREIGNERS_PAY_TAX2024.pdf 

 

Expat Tax Thailand is most clear on this topic [ I do not need to file ], in this video: https://www.expattaxthailand.com/do-you-need-to-file/. However their latest interview with 2 RD tax experts made it less clear. Siam Legal did not answer, nor Benjamin Hart.

 

Some in this forum has chosen a route by filing a nil return. At least you can show evidence even though the rules whether to file are not clear to me.

 

Some is very vocal in saying you have to file, because any remitted income is assessable.

I am not buying this argument, as the current 2024 Thai forms only allow a listed Revenue code TEDA exemptions and allowances, that has not been changed between 2023/2024.

When I last visited the RD local office, the lady showed a tax calculation that cannot be represented in the form, so is to me not transparent and not usable for future audits, as it will only available in the records of RD.

 

So for now my attitude is to wait and see for a few weeks if there is more news and then make up my mind.

 

Agree. A good eight weeks yet. No need to panic 

[Badrabbit]

53 minutes ago, Jim Blue said:

Thanks I got my 13  digit tax no. at the tax office near VT condo res in about 3 min for 20 baht. I thought it was a bit expensive until she explained it was for the photocopy fee?????

Can you say what was needed as my tax office say I would need documents from the UK confirming funds coming into Thailand.

[JimGant]

2 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

And right on cue, here is Benjamin

His last sentence is dead wrong, where he says: Taxability of a wire transfer depends on "the underlying purpose of the funds being transferred." Nonsense. Taxability depends on the nature of the funds transferred, whether income or not -- and if income, whether or not Thailand considers it assessable (taxable) income. 

 

Shame on you, Benjamin. You're beginning to sound like Thomas Carden.

[The Cyclist]

Just now, JimGant said:

His last sentence is dead wrong, where he says: Taxability of a wire transfer depends on "the underlying purpose of the funds being transferred." Nonsense. Taxability depends on the nature of the funds transferred, whether income or not -- and if income, whether or not Thailand considers it assessable (taxable) income. 

 

Shame on you, Benjamin. You're beginning to sound like Thomas Carden.

 

Why you telling me ?
 

 

 

Phone Benjamin and tell hime he is " Dead wrong "

[redwood1]

9 minutes ago, JimGant said:

His last sentence is dead wrong, where he says: Taxability of a wire transfer depends on "the underlying purpose of the funds being transferred." Nonsense. Taxability depends on the nature of the funds transferred, whether income or not -- and if income, whether or not Thailand considers it assessable (taxable) income. 

 

Shame on you, Benjamin. You're beginning to sound like Thomas Carden.

 

Dont worry Benjamin will be wearing a orange or striped jumper suit soon..

[NoDisplayName]

5 hours ago, anchadian said:

Quoted on one of my Thai banks fund confirmation notes is a 13 digit tax ID number  เลขประจําตัวผู้เสียภาษีอากร / Tax ID. No : 09........

 

Is this the actual TIN or the bank's own tax fund number?

 

 

If it doesn't match your TIN or pink ID, then it's probably the bank's TIN.

 

It should appear on any bank withholding statement you receive.  For BKK Bank, it printed in the upper block, top right.

 

Don't know about other documents.  I checked a BKK Bank mutual fund confirmation/tax invoice without their TIN.

 

Google it!  I put that number in the search bar and got BKK Bank's general information page.

[JimGant]

42 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Why you telling me ?

Are you serious? Nobody can tell you anything.