Thai tax tangle: Expats warned of new rules on overseas income

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

How many of those apply to retired Pensioners, who make up the majority of these threads.

Mostly PENSION income remitted that is exempt under DTA, no need to declare. 

Though of course some types of pension income are not exempt. 

[NoDisplayName]

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

Surely you can't be fined if you have no tax to pay.   

 

Paper filings must be submitted by March 31.

Online filings get an additional week.

You can file late, and pay a 200 baht late filing fee.

[The Cyclist]

1 minute ago, 0ffshore360 said:

In that case i need advise that i reserve my apology.

 

Do what you.

 

You mistake me for someone who gives a ****

[Jingthing]

Comply?

For sure.

But do not OVER comply.

[0ffshore360]

1 minute ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Do what you.

 

You mistake me for someone who gives a ****

Troll ?

[NoDisplayName]

1 hour ago, The Cyclist said:

Try and get your head around the fact that something can be both assessable and not taxable.

 

In Thailand, assessable = taxable.

[0ffshore360]

Just now, NoDisplayName said:

 

In Thailand, assessable = taxable.

At source or  destination ????????

[The Cyclist]

Just now, Jingthing said:

Mostly PENSION income remitted that is exempt under DTA, no need to declare. 

Though of course some types of pension income are not exempt. 

 

Yes Jingthing, that is not in dispute.

 

What we cannot say at this juncture is that under a DTA there is no need to declare.

 

Yet again, I have to spell out what a DTA is for, exempt taxation, it does not exempt you filing if that is what the Country decrees, if you are a tax resident of that Country.

 

Yeah, I know what we all done for the last 15 years, that does not mean change cannot or will not happen.

 

 

[NoDisplayName]

47 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Did you phone the Thai guy yet and put him right ?
 

Let me know when you do.

 

Did you file and declare your non-assessable income?

 

Let me know when you do.

[The Cyclist]

4 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

In Thailand, assessable = taxable.

 

Yes, of course it does 😳😳

 

Income is assessable, if you are a tax resident, it is earned in 2024, remitted to Thailand in 2024.

 

That is what makes it assessable income in Thailand

 

A DTA makes it non taxable in Thailand.

 

But that is too difficult a concept to grasp.

[NoDisplayName]

9 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

How many of those apply to retired Pensioners, who make up the majority of these threads.

 

All of those apply to retired pensioners, even foreigner ones!

 

Would you mind pointing out which do NOT apply to retired pensioners?

[The Cyclist]

Just now, NoDisplayName said:

All of those apply to retired pensioners, even foreigner ones!

 

English comprehension skills failing you again.

 

Never mind

[JimGant]

50 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Did you phone the Thai guy yet and put him right ?

 

Well, yeah:

-- Hello, Thai guy -- we've got a guy on this forum who believes, when you mentioned that US Social Security was assessable income, that, well, that was the end of the matter.

-- No, I further went on to mention that, because of the DTA, US Social Security was labelled as "exclusive" to US taxation authority. Thus, because of this clause in the DTA, US Social Security was no longer considered assessable income for Thai tax purposes.

-- But, this bozo on the forum insists that, in spite of the DTA language making Social Security non assessable, that it is ASSESSABLE. What do you make of that?

-- Call the guys with the white coats.

[NoDisplayName]

17 minutes ago, 0ffshore360 said:

At source or  destination ????????

 

Destination.  Never remitted, never assessable.

 

DTA's, royal decrees, tax regulations determine whether a remittance is assessable/taxable.

 

TRD says assessable is taxable, and is used in PIT calculations.  Non-assessable is not taxable, and is NOT used in PIT calculations.

 

For the time being, we self-determine which remittances are assessable, taxable, and must be included in filing if over the 60K/120K assessable income threshhold.

 

If US sociable security were assessable, every US tax-resident receiving social security would be over the limit and would be required by law to file a tax return, would have to claim exemption under DTA on the tax return, and claim credit for tax paid in the US on social security benefits on the tax return.

 

How many US tax-residents have been told by TRD to declare their US social security? 

 

The "tax expert" said it's assessable!  We got a YouTube video!  That means it's truly truthy!

 

 

"The first rule of assessable club is not to talk about remittances"

[redwood1]

19 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Could you list you tax qualifications and the Office that you work for ?
 

If not, your nothing but an internet pixel

 

Anyone who does not agree with you....It now seems is a internet pixel....

[NoDisplayName]

3 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

 

Anyone who does not agree with you....It now seems is a internet pixel....

 

Watch it, bub, or I'll sprinkle pixel dust on ya's!

[anrcaccount]

33 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

39 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

 

No, incorrect, exempt is no need to declare. Let's add to the list:

 

• Gifts remitted, exempt, no need to declare unless over 20M THB. 
• Income remitted that is exempt under DTA, no need to declare. 
• Pre 2024 income remitted, exempt, no need to declare. 
• Remittance of proceeds of assets sold at cost or a loss, exempt, no need to declare,
• Loans,  exempt, no need to declare.
• Any asset or income not remitted to Thailand - exempt, no need to declare. 

 

How many of those apply to retired Pensioners, who make up the majority of these threads.

 

All of them. 

 

 

[Ricardo]

12 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

 

Anyone who does not agree with you....It now seems is a internet pixel....

I'm not a pixel, I'm a leprechaun or boggart, myself !  

[NoDisplayName]

4 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

awaiting updated paperwork,

 

Monday will be day 27 of the 2025 tax filing season.

 

That's 30% gone.

 

Soon to be 1/3 over.

 

You still think new, revised forms, different than the already published Thai language forms will be coming out?

 

And that tens of thousands, nay, millions of early-bird filers will have to re-file?

 

My pixelated 8-ball says "Outlook Not So Good."

[KhunHeineken]

1 hour ago, Badrabbit said:

Thay said "if you should have a problem get them to call here"

Did you get their number? 

[Badrabbit]

1 minute ago, KhunHeineken said:

Did you get their number? 

Yea two girls gave me their numbers, saying "you handsome man"

[KhunHeineken]

52 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Paper filings must be submitted by March 31.

Online filings get an additional week.

You can file late, and pay a 200 baht late filing fee.

Thanks. 

 

How late is "late?"  

 

I may extend my personal deadline and pay the 200 baht to sit back and gather more information before fling.   

[oldcpu]

2 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Correct

 

So if its assessable t needs filing

 

 

And the Royal Decree / DTA in some (not all) cases can make a foreign income  not taxable by Thailand and ultimately not to be considered as assessable. 

 

In such a case (of income not taxable in Thailand by DTA) per Royal Decree the income is exempt for Thailand tax  ... and being exempt (and not taxable by Thailand) by Royal Decree and further per the selected DTA), such exempt income  is not to be considered assessable income.

 

If it is not assessable income then it is not to be included in the determination as to whether a tax return is needed. Only assessable income is to be used for assessing if an income tax return is needed.

 

I gave Cyclist an example of this (Canadian pensions paid to a resident of Thailand) and they still do not seem to understand this.

 

Cyclist, all  you are succeeding in doing is confusing those who have not researched this.  Not every foreign income remitted to Thailand is assessable income.  OK?

 

For those puzzling over this, you really really really need to read and understand the DTA of  your income source country (or countries) with Thailand.

 

Do not follow the guidance of those (Cyclist in particular)  who state the only exempt income is that from pre-1-Jan-2024, because they are WRONG and they fail to admit such. They refuse to admit their error.

 

What does that tell you? Where else have they made an error they refuse to admit?  Note if you follow their advice, it could cost you money.

 

Do not follow the guidance of those who refuse to accept the explanation why DTA exempt foreign  income has no entry field for the exemption on a tax return going back to year 2017 (and likely to year 1969).  Instead all they can speculate is the  English language 2024 tax form might be different (when we have already seen from the 2024 Thai language tax form that there is no such difference).

 

Be careful in reading the posts of such who simply do not fully research this topic. But do follow Thai law. Just understand clearly what income of yours is assessable and what is not to be considered assessable.  And in that determination the Thai Tax code, Ministerial directives, and Royal Decrees (which also can and do call up DTAs) are relevant.

 

If in doubt you can go to your local RD, but BEFORE you do, be certain to be prepared to ask the right questions of the Thai RD with the specific DTA of your source income country with Thailand in mind.

 

 

 

[KhunHeineken]

2 hours ago, redwood1 said:

Others nationalities are miles behind on keeping up with any of this...I sure have not noticed any self proclaimed tax gurus making you tube videos in Chinese Russian or Indian

What's that got to do with anything? 

 

What a ridiculous comment. 

 

If they are tax residents, they will have to pay as well. 

[NoDisplayName]

40 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Thanks. 

 

How late is "late?"  

 

I may extend my personal deadline and pay the 200 baht to sit back and gather more information before fling.   

 

You can file three past years online.

In person?  Dunno, maybe same, maybe farther back.

 

Last July, I filed online returns for 2021, 2022, 2023.

Only one late filing fee was charged, paid online by bank xfer.

 

Received refunds for interest and dividend withholding tax for all three years. that I had blown off as not worth the trouble to file for.

I wanted to learn how to use the online system, and to have a record of filing returns...........just in case.

[KhunHeineken]

1 minute ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

You can file three past years online.

In person?  Dunno, maybe same, maybe farther back.

 

Last July, I filed online returns for 2021, 2022, 2023.

Only one late filing fee was charged, paid online by bank xfer.

 

Received refunds for interest and dividend withholding tax for all three years. that I had blown off as not worth the trouble to file for.

I wanted to learn how to use the online system, and to have a record of filing returns...........just in case.

Thanks for the information.  It gives me another option.

[NoDisplayName]

Here's a REAL tax expert.

On the YouTubes, and he's wearing a collared shirt with long sleeves.

 

At 5:30, he says....

 

"....then we look at what they bring into Thailand, so if they bring in pension income, we have to look at where the pension income's from.  If it is from the US..., so social security money, umm, then that is not taxable.  It's not assessable income, so for these people, if that's their only source of income, for your US listeners and viewers, if their only source of income is US social security, or military pension, or they worked for the US government, like a federal pension.  This is not assessable income.  They don't need to file a tax return for that income.  They don't need to do anything."

 

He then goes on to speak a bit on UK pension types, claims you CAN take a tax credit, but of course doesn't explain how.

 

At 8:40, he lists some forms that are excluded, and are not assessable, and he repeats those people with only this type of income remitted do NOT need to file a tax return and do NOT need a tax ID.  Those include US socsec, Canuck pension, and most DTA's cover government civil service and military service pensions.

 

 

Look at that face.

How could he be worng!

[anrcaccount]

7 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

Here's a REAL tax expert.

On the YouTubes, and he's wearing a collared shirt with long sleeves.

 

At 5:30, he says....

 

"....then we look at what they bring into Thailand, so if they bring in pension income, we have to look at where the pension income's from.  If it is from the US..., so social security money, umm, then that is not taxable.  It's not assessable income, so for these people, if that's their only source of income, for your US listeners and viewers, if their only source of income is US social security, or military pension, or they worked for the US government, like a federal pension.  This is not assessable income.  They don't need to file a tax return for that income.  They don't need to do anything."

 

He then goes on to speak a bit on UK pension types, claims you CAN take a tax credit, but of course doesn't explain how.

 

At 8:40, he lists some forms that are excluded, and are not assessable, and he repeats those people with only this type of income remitted do NOT need to file a tax return and do NOT need a tax ID.  Those include US socsec, Canuck pension, and most DTA's cover government civil service and military service pensions.

 

 

Look at that face.

How could he be worng!

 

 

Wow,  this guy is the absolute definition of a slick talking farang in a blue suit. I bet he's still pretty new to Thailand. 

 

I would warn my family from purchasing life insurance or an expensive vaccuum from him, should he knock at the door.

 

But, in this case, I do concede he is talking some sense.........

 

 

 

 

[oldcpu]

48 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

At 8:40, he lists some forms that are excluded, and are not assessable, and he repeats those people with only this type of income remitted do NOT need to file a tax return and do NOT need a tax ID.  Those include US socsec, Canuck pension, and most DTA's cover government civil service and military service pensions.

 

 

I have mostly only looked at Canadian DTA in any detail (pension aspect in particular) and also a bit at German pensions.  Other DTAs less so (although I have looked at some out of curiousity).

 

What he states about Canadian pensions not  being taxable in Thailand (and also not being considered assessable income for Thailand if remitted to Thailand and hence no Thai tax return required IF that is one's only income) confirms what I have read elsewhere, and also what my understanding of the Canada-Thai DTA means. 

 

Of course Canada taxes pensions pretty heavily, so one is still paying a LOT of tax (to Canada in this case).

[Felt 35]

On 1/20/2025 at 10:32 PM, NoDisplayName said:

 

PN90  Personal Income Tax Return
for taxpayer with income not only from employment

 

PN91  Personal Income Tax Return
for taxpayer with only income from employment

under Section 40 (1) of the Revenue Code Only

 

(1) Income derived from employment, whether in the form of salary, wage, per diem, bonus, bounty, gratuity, pension, house rent allowance, monetary value of rent-free residence provided by an employer, payment of debt liability of an employee made by an employer, or any money, property or benefit derived from employment.

 

Makes sense.  PN91 is the short form, only for employment income.

Under the rules, pension is considered derived from employment.

 

You have no other income streams?  No Thai sourced interest or dividends?  No remittances of capital gains or dividends from outside?

 

Maybe you can answer some of our questions:

 

Is your pension non-assessable, excluded by DTA?

If so, if entered on your PN91, how do you deduct it?

 

Do you pay any tax on your pension in your home country?

If so, how do you claim a credit for foreign tax paid?

 

 

You have no other income streams?  No Thai sourced interest or dividends?  No remittances of capital gains or dividends from outside? Not remitted to Thailand

 

Maybe you can answer some of our questions: I will try

 

Is your pension non-assessable, excluded by DTA? There are a DTA but pension is assesable in Thailand as long as it is remitted but only the part which actually are transferred.

If so, if entered on your PN91, how do you deduct it? N/A

 

Do you pay any tax on your pension in your home country? Yes

If so, how do you claim a credit for foreign tax paid? Yes, but opposite, I send Certificate of Residence (R.O22) and Income Tax Payment Certificate (R.O.21) home and I pay only tax there on the part of pension which is not remitted to Thailand.