Thai tax tangle: Expats warned of new rules on overseas income

[KhunHeineken]

8 hours ago, anrcaccount said:

You would have no Thai tax liability for these 2 transfers,  and neither would your wife or sister in law as the recipients. 

Then, I would expect little booths to pop up all over Thailand, like money exchanges, where you can transfer money to the staff behind the counter as  "gift" and they hand you cash, minus a small commission. 

 

[cliveshep]

10 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Then, I would expect little booths to pop up all over Thailand, like money exchanges, where you can transfer money to the staff behind the counter as  "gift" and they hand you cash, minus a small commission. 

 

Logically, giving money to your immediate family with no demands or requirements can be nothing but gifts. Doing so to complete strangers can only be a tax evasion scam.  So I think your idea is a fallacy.

[KhunHeineken]

1 minute ago, cliveshep said:

Logically, giving money to your immediate family with no demands or requirements can be nothing but gifts.

How do Thai authorities know they are immediate family?  

 

I can gift a bargirl while we are standing at an ATM and then give her a payment for her trouble, and arrange to do it again next week. 

 

2 minutes ago, cliveshep said:

Doing so to complete strangers can only be a tax evasion scam. 

Same with gifting family.

 

The "gift" debate has been done and dusted. 

 

Roll the dice with your "gifting" work around.  You don't think the Thai's haven't thought about this loophole????

[Yumthai]

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

How do Thai authorities know they are immediate family?  

Weird question... How will TRD know your income is tax exempted? Maybe by asking supporting docs.

In that case a simple birth certificate will do the trick.

 

2 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

I can gift a bargirl while we are standing at an ATM and then give her a payment for her trouble, and arrange to do it again next week.

That's what actually happens or do you seriously think the thousands of "working girls" declare their emoluments?

And for some it's not weekly but several times daily along with multiple offshore sponsors sending monthly wires.

[KhunHeineken]

13 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

How will TRD know your income is tax exempted?

Weird question. 

 

They won't.  That's why you have to file and declare and get that magic piece of paper from them.

 

14 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

Maybe by asking supporting docs.

In that case a simple birth certificate will do the trick.

 

A birth certificate proves source of funds. Really???? 

 

15 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

That's what actually happens or do you seriously think the thousands of "working girls" declare their emoluments?

And for some it's not weekly but several times daily along with multiple offshore sponsors sending monthly wires.

You missed the point entirely. 

 

The member thinks he can just "gift away" funds to come under the threshold, with the money staying in the family. 

 

I could gift a bargirl at an ATM and she withdraws it, I give her a commission, and I've done the same thing. 

 

Gifting has been well debated and debunked on this forum. 

[Yumthai]

9 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

They won't.  That's why you have to file and declare and get that magic piece of paper from them.

Not if you have self-assessed you have no assessable income.

IF an authority someday requires you something just be prepared and ready with your answers/docs/bribe (if it's your thing).

 

10 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

A birth certificate proves source of funds. Really???? 

For the giftee, source of fund is a gift. Birth certificate will prove how the gifter and the giftee are related, if ever asked during an unlikely audit.

 

14 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Gifting has been well debated and debunked on this forum. 

... and still perfectly legal in Thailand when complying with the gift tax law.

[KhunHeineken]

19 hours ago, Yumthai said:

Not if you have self-assessed you have no assessable income.

IF an authority someday requires you something just be prepared and ready with your answers/docs/bribe (if it's your thing).

This has been debated over and over again. 

 

The Thai authorities do not know the source of the income, and you can bet that "someday" with be at extension time or at an airport.  

 

We have heard from members that filed, declared, paid zero tax, but got the certificate of clearance.  Some members filed, declared, and paid a small amount of tax, but also got a certificate of clearance. 

 

Without that magic piece of paper, you roll the dice. 

 

19 hours ago, Yumthai said:

For the giftee, source of fund is a gift. Birth certificate will prove how the gifter and the giftee are related, if ever asked during an unlikely audit.

Is a farang husband listed on their Thai wife's birth certificate? 

 

19 hours ago, Yumthai said:

and still perfectly legal in Thailand when complying with the gift tax law.

It's obvious some members are considering "gifting" as a method of tax evasion. 

[JimGant]

2 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

We have heard from members that filed, declared, paid zero tax, but got the certificate of clearance.  Some members filed, declared, and paid a small amount of tax, but also got a certificate of clearance. 

 

Without that magic piece of paper, you roll the dice. 

You're nuts. There's no " certificate of clearance" to be obtained. Owe no taxes, file no tax return. No "certifcate of clearance" asked for by Immigration. Heck, have assessable income below TEDA, thus file no tax return -- ignore those 60/120/220k thresholds -- those aren't codified requirements.

 

What the heck does this imaginary "certificate of clearance" look like anyway? Bet you can't produce one.

 

Quit scare mongering, KH. You're getting tiresome.

[anchadian]

6 minutes ago, JimGant said:

You're nuts. There's no " certificate of clearance" to be obtained. Owe no taxes, file no tax return. No "certifcate of clearance" asked for by Immigration. Heck, have assessable income below TEDA, thus file no tax return -- ignore those 60/120/220k thresholds -- those aren't codified requirements.

 

What the heck does this imaginary "certificate of clearance" look like anyway? Bet you can't produce one.

 

Quit scare mongering, KH. You're getting tiresome.

Well stated.

[Yumthai]

3 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

Is a farang husband listed on their Thai wife's birth certificate? 

In that case replace the word "birth" by "marriage" and the magic will happen, amazing isn't it?

 

3 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

It's obvious some members are considering "gifting" as a method of tax evasion. 

There is no possible tax evasion by complying with the (gift) tax law.

[KhunHeineken]

2 hours ago, JimGant said:

You're nuts. There's no " certificate of clearance" to be obtained. Owe no taxes, file no tax return. No "certifcate of clearance" asked for by Immigration. Heck, have assessable income below TEDA, thus file no tax return -- ignore those 60/120/220k thresholds -- those aren't codified requirements.

 

What the heck does this imaginary "certificate of clearance" look like anyway? Bet you can't produce one.

 

Quit scare mongering, KH. You're getting tiresome.

Good Luck with doing nothing. 

 

In my opinion you are leaving yourself exposed to extortion.  

 

You can sell it all you like on this forum, but I'm not buying it.

 

It's better to have that magic piece of paper than not.  Simple as that. 

 

 

[KhunHeineken]

42 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

In that case replace the word "birth" by "marriage" and the magic will happen, amazing isn't it?

So the marriage is on the Thai lady's birth certificate, is it? 

 

43 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

There is no possible tax evasion by complying with the (gift) tax law.

Good Luck with that. 

 

I'm sure the Thai's have something planned for those who are going down that route. 

[KhunHeineken]

2 hours ago, anchadian said:

Well stated.

Or, understated. 

[Yumthai]

2 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

I'm sure the Thai's have something planned for those who are going down that route. 

Sounds like a cheap fortune teller.

 

4 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Good Luck with doing nothing. 

Rather do nothing than frauding.

[topt]

12 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Good Luck with doing nothing. 

 

In my opinion you are leaving yourself exposed to extortion.  

 

You can sell it all you like on this forum, but I'm not buying it.

 

It's better to have that magic piece of paper than not.  Simple as that. 

 

 

So 3 hours ago I asked you in another thread have you filed yet - as you have said before you would be. As time is passing or are you still prevaricating?

Normally so quick to respond......

I also asked if you planned to declare the cash you had brought in from your foreign trips - whether last year or this - so?

[rough diamond]

22 minutes ago, topt said:

So 3 hours ago I asked you in another thread have you filed yet - as you have said before you would be. As time is passing or are you still prevaricating?

Normally so quick to respond......

I also asked if you planned to declare the cash you had brought in from your foreign trips - whether last year or this - so?

Will you actually believe whatever answer, if any, that you get?

[rough diamond]

On 3/7/2025 at 8:24 PM, KhunHeineken said:

That's why you have to file and declare and get that magic piece of paper from them.

What "magic piece of paper" and what does it do?

[topt]

12 minutes ago, rough diamond said:

Will you actually believe whatever answer, if any, that you get?

 

8 minutes ago, rough diamond said:

What "magic piece of paper" and what does it do?

Same same, but different perhaps............

[Felt 35]

3 hours ago, JimGant said:

You're nuts. There's no " certificate of clearance" to be obtained. Owe no taxes, file no tax return. No "certifcate of clearance" asked for by Immigration. Heck, have assessable income below TEDA, thus file no tax return -- ignore those 60/120/220k thresholds -- those aren't codified requirements.

 

What the heck does this imaginary "certificate of clearance" look like anyway? Bet you can't produce one.

 

Quit scare mongering, KH. You're getting tiresome.

 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/23518.html

 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/21977.html

 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/21978.html

[NoDisplayName]

6 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

We have heard from members that filed, declared, paid zero tax, but got the certificate of clearance.  Some members filed, declared, and paid a small amount of tax, but also got a certificate of clearance. 

 

Who got a "certificate of clearance"?

I must have missed that.

 

Do you mean a receipt for filing tax?

I've got a bunch of those.

How 'bout you?

 

[NoDisplayName]

On 3/7/2025 at 8:24 PM, KhunHeineken said:

Gifting has been well debated and debunked on this forum. 

 

Not exactly.  If the gifting laws are abused to evade taxes, then you may have problems if caught.  If the gifting laws are followed, you'll be fine. 

 

Wife called the TRD helpline to confirm, gifting law applies to funds given to a spouse into an offshore account, and she can bring in the funds as she pleases.  NOT for OUR daily expenses, of course, or for the donor's benefit.

 

I mean, like, dude, really........this particular law was written by those with wealth for their patrons with wealth to reduce their tax burden.  Otherwise why set the limit at 20 million baht per year in a land of subsistence farmers.

[Badrabbit]

14 hours ago, JimGant said:

You're nuts. There's no " certificate of clearance" to be obtained. Owe no taxes, file no tax return. No "certifcate of clearance" asked for by Immigration. Heck, have assessable income below TEDA, thus file no tax return -- ignore those 60/120/220k thresholds -- those aren't codified requirements.

 

What the heck does this imaginary "certificate of clearance" look like anyway? Bet you can't produce one.

 

Quit scare mongering, KH. You're getting tiresome.

I'm am sick of this thread, agents trying to drum up business, tax office said "you won't need to.pay tax, what is a certificate of clearance, you don't need a TIN, you don't need to file a tax return, Expat tax want a fortune just to get advice, go away.

[JimGant]

Here's a good read on Thai Tax Clearance certificates -- a relic of the past, but still on the books:

https://www.legal.co.th/resources/corporate-and-tax-advisory/thailand-tax-law/what-thai-tax-clearance-certificate/

 

One of the more glaring statements in this presentation is this:

Quote

 It is my understanding that about 20 years ago they really stopped doing them in earnest but the regulatory structure as evidenced by the fact that this is on the Revenue Department's website still exists and depending on a given set of circumstances, I have seen limited circumstances where just to be safe, foreigners have been advised to go ahead and obtain a Thai Tax Clearance Certificate just to sort of "put all their ducks in a row".

Sound like advice from a certain someone on this thread? Or a typical charlatan Agent pitch to scare you into forking over some baht?

 

No, we've not seen any evidence of anyone exiting Thailand being asked for this certificate. Maybe a remote chance, if you're running a business here in Thailand.....  But certainly a retired expat, who wasted time, money, and energy getting such a certificate -- would be -- to put it nicely -- foolish.

 

 

[JimGant]

12 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

Wife called the TRD helpline to confirm, gifting law applies to funds given to a spouse into an offshore account, and she can bring in the funds as she pleases. 

Ah, I give my Thai-US wife my annual private pension earned in the US. (We both have US bank accounts - but we're both Thai tax residents.) She puts it into her US savings account, where it has now become savings (I, of course, have already paid the US tax on this pension). And, per US tax law, I pay no US gift tax, as it's a gift to my spouse.

 

As a private pension, should I remit it to Thailand, then Thailand has primary taxation rights on it, per DTA. But if I "filter" it through my wife's savings account -- and she remits it -- this gift, which has morphed into savings, is no longer income, let alone assessable income. And, assuming the wife remits this money into her Thai bank account, it's lost its 'gift' aspect -- so no Thai gift tax for her to pay, if in excess of 20m baht.

 

Anyway, that TRD should offer this "filtering" mechanism to get around Thai tax on a gift (can we call it "laundering?") suggests TRD is aware that remitted assessable income doesn't lose its taxability just because its purpose is as a gift. Remember the argument: assessable remitted income, whether used to buy a condo, a Honda, or groceries -- is still taxable, as purpose of that remittance is immaterial. And this, goes the argument, applies to gifts. Sounds like the TRD hotline is well aware of this.

[NoDisplayName]

1 hour ago, JimGant said:

As a private pension, should I remit it to Thailand, then Thailand has primary taxation rights on it, per DTA. But if I "filter" it through my wife's savings account -- and she remits it -- this gift, which has morphed into savings, is no longer income, let alone assessable income. And, assuming the wife remits this money into her Thai bank account, it's lost its 'gift' aspect -- so no Thai gift tax for her to pay, if in excess of 20m baht.

 

No, it doesn't "morph" into savings.  She still has a gift of $xxx,xxx regardless of what she may have done with the funds before remitting.  The money can move through multiple accounts, buying and selling stocks, whatever, but she still may remit the amount of the gift as a gift under the gifting rules.

 

Interest or capital gains or dividends she has earned from the gift is taxable/assessable, and she would even qualify for a foreign tax credit on the 15% withholding on interest and dividends.

 

As long as she follows the gifting rules.

 

1 hour ago, JimGant said:

But if I "filter" it through my wife's savings account -- and she remits it -- this gift, which has morphed into savings, is no longer income, let alone assessable income.

 

"Filter?"  Like at a, you know, laundry? 

 

Naughty, if she's bringing in the gift money to pay general expenses from which you benefit.  That is no longer a gift.  If you get caught, there will be TRD to pay.

 

My plan is to gift the wife ~1 million baht as a birthday or xmas gift each year, deposited into her Schwab brokerage account.  The money will be invested to "take care" her after I've departed.  Perfectly legal, in accordance with gifting law.

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, NoDisplayName said:

"Filter?"  Like at a, you know, laundry? 

Right. That's why TRD said you couldn't send it VFR direct as assessable income and just say, hey, this is a gift; 'cause taxability depends only on the characteristics of the remitted income, not what it is finally used for. Your characteristics, by sending direct, wouldn't be overcome by declaring it as a gift. The wife, remitting from a savings account full of fungible dollars -- with only the interest earned on these dollars possibly subject to Thai tax -- is home free. All the money in her savings account is post-US taxation, which, ipso facto, makes it savings.

 

Why do you think TRD advised you to laundry thru a foreign account -- and not send direct and then claim its use was as a gift? Obvious answer -- and nice to see there are some helpful folks at TRD.

[Yumthai]

16 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

Wife called the TRD helpline to confirm, gifting law applies to funds given to a spouse into an offshore account, and she can bring in the funds as she pleases.  NOT for OUR daily expenses, of course, or for the donor's benefit.

That is surely TRD wishful thinking. In practice this is not enforceable, so as foreign credit cards spending.

 

Are there any reports of gifts being re-qualified as assessable income because it has been proven to have somehow benefited the gifter?

 

As you mentioned the THB20M gift tax-free threshold is a joke, why would they more care about how the gift money is spent.

 

1 hour ago, NoDisplayName said:

My plan is to gift the wife ~1 million baht as a birthday or xmas gift each year, deposited into her Schwab brokerage account.

Not sure a Schwab International brokerage account (held by a non US person) can be funded from a third-party.

 

 

 

[beammeup]

OK so wife needs a new car, I can gift her the money and she can transfer from our joint offshore account into her local account. No tax obligation for her or me?

[NoDisplayName]

2 hours ago, JimGant said:

Right. That's why TRD said you couldn't send it VFR direct as assessable income and just say, hey, this is a gift; 'cause taxability depends only on the characteristics of the remitted income, not what it is finally used for.

 

They no say that.  Wife asked if gift rules apply to funds received in an offshore account.  TRD says yes, gift rules are not limited to Thai bank accounts only.  There was talk on previous threads that gifts received offshore don't get gift tax exemption.  That is untrue.

 

I don't want to send direct to her Thai account, because I would be the remitter, in which case million baht deposits might draw attention.   Sure, I could (try to) prove non-assessable funds, but I don't want to. 

 

2 hours ago, JimGant said:

Why do you think TRD advised you to laundry thru a foreign account -- and not send direct and then claim its use was as a gift? Obvious answer -- and nice to see there are some helpful folks at TRD.

 

They did not.  We want to gift offshore so that remittances are her gift, NOT my funds deposited in her account and then declared as a gift. 

 

[NoDisplayName]

2 hours ago, Yumthai said:

Are there any reports of gifts being re-qualified as assessable income because it has been proven to have somehow benefited the gifter?

 

No, not yet.  Tax policy is fluid now, no telling what changes are coming, or what might flag interest.  If I follow a procedure that is unquestionably legal, no worries.  I've got plenty of non-assessable funds and in-country savings to spend down that will cover all foreseeable expenses.

 

2 hours ago, Yumthai said:

Not sure a Schwab International brokerage account (held by a non US person) can be funded from a third-party.

 

Been there, done that.  We both have Schwab accounts.  I can pull cash by ACH from my other brokerage into my Schwab cash account.  Then I have a standing order allowing my to send cash only, one way, to the wifi's account.  Everything set up, all links tested.  Good to go.  Everything can be done online now without having to contact a representative.