Thai Tax Laws for Expats: the Practical Implications versus the Realities

[KhunHeineken]

9 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You never know until you know.

As you say, This is Thailand, and as I say, they have foreigners by the b*lls here. 

 

They don't want you to "know."  They want you on a string, like a puppet, so at any time of their choosing, they can make you dance. 

 

No problem for me to do 179 days in Thailand, should they seek to screw me.  Others are not so lucky to have such freedom of movement, but they made their choice and ill have to live with it.  Something I am sure the Thai's will take advantage of. 

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

As you say, This is Thailand, and as I say, they have foreigners by the b*lls here. 

 

They don't want you to "know."  They want you on a string, like a puppet, so at any time of their choosing, they can make you dance. 

 

No problem for me to do 179 days in Thailand, should they seek to screw me.  Others are not so lucky to have such freedom of movement, but they made their choice and ill have to live with it.  Something I am sure the Thai's will take advantage of. 

Well I'm not at your level of paranoia but certainly if you fail to comply with what we know now is technically the Thai tax system hoping they aren't serious, you are making yourself potentially vulnerable to bad things happening later.

[KhunHeineken]

11 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Well I'm not at your level of paranoia but certainly if you fail to comply with what we know now is technically the Thai tax system hoping they aren't serious, you are making yourself potentially vulnerable to bad things happening later.

No paranoia here. 

 

Thailand is an unstable, 3rd World Country.  I have always known my stay here could end at any time, through no fault of my own.  It's as corrupt as f**k here. 

 

That retirement visa / extension is nothing more than a 12 month tourist visa. 

 

I already had a Plan B escape even before I started living here full time.

 

Unfortunately, for many who are on more than just a pension, the cost of staying in Thailand appears to be going up, by way of this tax, or, they leave for 6 months of the year.   I feel many will be facing a tough decision in the future.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

No paranoia here. 

 

Thailand is an unstable, 3rd World Country.  I have always known my stay here could end at any time, through no fault of my own.  It's as corrupt as f**k here. 

 

That retirement visa / extension is nothing more than a 12 month tourist visa. 

 

I already had a Plan B escape even before I started living here full time.

 

Unfortunately, for many who are on more than just a pension, the cost of staying in Thailand appears to be going up, by way of this tax, or, they leave for 6 months of the year.   I feel many will be facing a tough decision in the future.

Well our views are actually pretty close. 

Of course retirement extensions can never bring residence security. I'm also big on plan b and plan c and plan d.

Happy travels.

[RSD1]

6 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

The numbers have been crunched, and crunched, and crunched, several times in the past.

 

Most pensions from around the world go over the threshold, meaning, there will be some tax to pay, however small, but some tax to pay, should the whole pension be remitted every month, government service pensions aside, which many DTA's seem to exempt. 

Sorry, I should've added some caveats to my previous posts.
 

The 210,000 tax-exempt threshold I have been talking about applies to single individuals under 65. For those over 65, higher deductions apply, as they qualify for additional exemptions. Married individuals also benefit from higher deductions.

 

However, retirees living on an overseas pension and transferring it monthly into Thailand are likely to exceed the annual tax-exempt limits as you noted.
 

While the general threshold of 210,000 I gave is also a useful guideline, actual exemptions will vary based on age, marital status, and personal circumstances.

[Presnock]

14 hours ago, oldcpu said:

 

There are limits to what accounts OECD via CRS has access to.

 

For example:

 

In the Canadian agreement with OECD it is quite clear that information on Canadian government regulated accounts for individuals (ie registered Canadian tax free accounts for money growth such as RRSPs, RRIFs and some others) are NOT reported to OECD  via CRS, and Canada is under no obligation to provide such to OECD.

 

Thailand has a similar agreement for Thai government regulated accounts of individuals.  

 

That may be a mute point - but I thought it important to make the observation that all information on all accounts is NOT provided via CRS to OECD.

excellent information as some of us only know about our own govt regs so ignore what others might be looking for or provide something that is not universal in response to a question!

[KhunHeineken]

12 hours ago, RSD1 said:

However, retirees living on an overseas pension and transferring it monthly into Thailand are likely to exceed the annual tax-exempt limits as you noted.

Yes, that's what I said. 

 

Members from various countries have posted their country's pension amounts, and then some pretty common set of circumstances, such as, being married and over 65 years of age, and the result was if there to remit all of their pension on an annual basis, they would have a tax liability.  

[KhunHeineken]

16 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Well our views are actually pretty close. 

Of course retirement extensions can never bring residence security. I'm also big on plan b and plan c and plan d.

Happy travels.

Given that western pensions go over the threshold, not unlike many taxes all around the world, it seems to effect the people who can least afford it the most.  

 

As I have said in the past, "a little out of a little can be a lot for some people."  Pensioners may have to adjust their lifestyle, and budget for this tax bill every year, going forward.

 

The high net worth individuals may just pay it, but could vacate for 6 months, depending on their thoughts about this tax, rather than its affordability. 

 

It's the people in the middle that will be interesting.  They bring in more than a pension, but are not a high net worth individual.   Many could be in that "zone" of viewing this tax as a rip off, or, the tax goes a long way towards paying to live 6 months outside Thailand anyway, so why not leave? 

 

2025 is a test year for this.  We will have more official and unofficial data on what demographic decided to do what in 2026. 

 

Interesting times ahead. 

 

 

[Scouse123]

On 1/24/2025 at 4:06 PM, KhunHeineken said:

Immigration Officer:  "Do you have certificate from TRD?"

 

Expat:  "No."

 

Immigration Officer:  "Must have certificate from TRD to make extension.  You go TRD first."

 

Expat:  "Ok."

 

All it would take is the order to come down from Bangkok, and another document would be needed at extension time.   A lot easy to implement than tourist tax.  

 

No real "communication" needed between the departments.  Just tell one department a certificate is now needed from the other department.  As I have said, they have expats by the b*lls and they know it. 

 

No real "ifs and buts" about it.  It's a no brainer for the Thai government.  The certificate from the TRD will be like the bank document.

 

I would be interested to know how you propose to get around the above? 

You do your way, I'll do mine.

 

Show me one place where it says tax will be linked to retirement extensions?

 

Show me.

 

You are just surmising, what makes you an expert?

[Scouse123]

Mass hysteria by a load of AN expat " TAX" experts on a gossip forum with bugger all else to do except repeating and regurgitating pure conjecture.

[Scouse123]

On 1/24/2025 at 4:06 PM, KhunHeineken said:

Immigration Officer:  "Do you have certificate from TRD?"

 

Expat:  "No."

 

Immigration Officer:  "Must have certificate from TRD to make extension.  You go TRD first."

 

Expat:  "Ok."

 

All it would take is the order to come down from Bangkok, and another document would be needed at extension time.   A lot easy to implement than tourist tax.  

 

No real "communication" needed between the departments.  Just tell one department a certificate is now needed from the other department.  As I have said, they have expats by the b*lls and they know it. 

 

No real "ifs and buts" about it.  It's a no brainer for the Thai government.  The certificate from the TRD will be like the bank document.

 

I would be interested to know how you propose to get around the above? 

 

 

Have you never seen how quick the Thai government reverses its policies?

 

They don't have expats by the balls, and they know it, hence DTV visas and anything to keep you coming instead of you moving to other SE Asian countries.

 

A load of clowns on here saying our money is a drop in the ocean blah blah, Thai government will survive and don't care, so why are they introducing DTV visas etc  to try and keep you?

[KhunHeineken]

10 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

You do your way, I'll do mine.

Sure, but what we both need to do, like it or not, is the Thai legal way. 

 

10 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

Show me one place where it says tax will be linked to retirement extensions?

I can't, but never said I could. 

 

For me, and many others, we see the "link" is the easiest, quickest, cheapest, and most effective way to force foreigners into a TRD office.  Surely you agree with this.  It's perfect for them.  

 

10 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

You are just surmising, what makes you an expert?

I have never claimed to be an expert, and I am not "surmising" I am predicting, and I'm not the only one to put it forward. 

 

From Day 1 when the news broke of this tax, I was one of the first ones, if not the first, to say they will use foreigner's need for visas / extensions to assist with enforcing their tax policy.  I said it then, I say it now, and I stand by my prediction.

 

Why are you so confident they will not "link" the two? 

[KhunHeineken]

10 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

Have you never seen how quick the Thai government reverses its policies?

I've always said, Thailand is an unstable, 3rd World Country, so yes, I have seen some back flips. 

 

How many policies have they reversed that sees them lose money?  

 

10 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

They don't have expats by the balls, and they know it, hence DTV visas and anything to keep you coming instead of you moving to other SE Asian countries.

The DTV was just another visa class.  What's your point?

 

10 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

A load of clowns on here saying our money is a drop in the ocean blah blah, Thai government will survive and don't care, so why are they introducing DTV visas etc  to try and keep you?

Simple.  Attract or keep a foreigner, means you keep their money in the Thailand economy, and keep their tax, including VAT.

 

Money Number One.  Why do you think they announced going for this tax if they knew they couldn't do and make a baht out of it?  

 

You asked me in another post, "show me one place where is says tax will be linked to retirement extensions."  

 

Can you show me one place where it says all of this tax policy will just go away and retired expats will not have to do anything?   

[RSD1]

On 1/25/2025 at 4:57 PM, KhunHeineken said:

Given that western pensions go over the threshold, not unlike many taxes all around the world, it seems to effect the people who can least afford it the most.  

 

As I have said in the past, "a little out of a little can be a lot for some people."  Pensioners may have to adjust their lifestyle, and budget for this tax bill every year, going forward.

 

The high net worth individuals may just pay it, but could vacate for 6 months, depending on their thoughts about this tax, rather than its affordability. 

 

It's the people in the middle that will be interesting.  They bring in more than a pension, but are not a high net worth individual.   Many could be in that "zone" of viewing this tax as a rip off, or, the tax goes a long way towards paying to live 6 months outside Thailand anyway, so why not leave? 

 

2025 is a test year for this.  We will have more official and unofficial data on what demographic decided to do what in 2026. 

 

Interesting times ahead. 

 

 

Yes, interesting times ahead and it will be amusing to see how all of this actually plays out, whether or not the laws are rolled back at some point, whether many people leave or not, etc. 
 

But the high net worth individuals probably won't end up paying any tax regardless of what happens. That's because they are capable of setting up sophisticated legal structures to avoid paying tax whereas the smaller guy in the middle may not have the resources to create the same setup so easily. 

[KhunHeineken]

1 hour ago, RSD1 said:

Yes, interesting times ahead and it will be amusing to see how all of this actually plays out, whether or not the laws are rolled back at some point, whether many people leave or not, etc. 

It will be amusing for some, tears for some, and a shock for some, but I am sure this tax policy has something for everyone.  

 

1 hour ago, RSD1 said:

But the high net worth individuals probably won't end up paying any tax regardless of what happens. That's because they are capable of setting up sophisticated legal structures to avoid paying tax whereas the smaller guy in the middle may not have the resources to create the same setup so easily. 

That's true of citizens, all around the world, the problem for farang in Thailand is, we are not citizens, and remit our money.  Link it to extensions and Cha-Ching. 

 

Of course, there's no way the Thai's would link it for enforcement purposes.  They are two separate departments and don't communicate with each other. 

[RSD1]

11 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

It will be amusing for some, tears for some, and a shock for some, but I am sure this tax policy has something for everyone.  

 

That's true of citizens, all around the world, the problem for farang in Thailand is, we are not citizens, and remit our money.  Link it to extensions and Cha-Ching. 

 

Of course, there's no way the Thai's would link it for enforcement purposes.  They are two separate departments and don't communicate with each other. 

There are structures and there are structures. There are ones that where you could still transfer money in and not be taxed. 
 

Anyway, I saw the following comment posted today on an Integrity Legal YouTube video. It's anecdotal, but I don't doubt that it is valid too:

 

A mate of mine went to tax office here in Thailand. Asked for tax ID and explained he is remitting funds from abroad and retired here. He mentioned the dual tax agreement with Thailand and his country and he had documents to provide. He was basically told to go away and he didn't need to lodge for a tax ID. He tried to argue that he thought he needed to lodge a tax return. They told him it wasn't needed. So, here is the quandary. I have heard of several other expats a experiencing the same issue.

[Scouse123]

14 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

 

 

You asked me in another post, "show me one place where is says tax will be linked to retirement extensions."  

 

Can you show me one place where it says all of this tax policy will just go away and retired expats will not have to do anything?   

 

So, some of your previous stuff I can go along with.

 

However, to start making sweeping statements about visas and extensions are going to be linked to tax is just something you and others have got in your heads, there is NO SUBSTANCE to this.

 

It's supposition.

[Scouse123]

14 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

 

 

Why are you so confident they will not "link" the two? 

 

A Thai tax officer said to me, it will take years to implement tax changes (he is mid-level in government tax department)

 

They smile and laugh at us getting our knickers in a twist over this.

[Scouse123]

1 hour ago, RSD1 said:

There are structures and there are structures. There are ones that where you could still transfer money in and not be taxed. 
 

Anyway, I saw the following comment posted today on an Integrity Legal YouTube video. It's anecdotal, but I don't doubt that it is valid too:

 

A mate of mine went to tax office here in Thailand. Asked for tax ID and explained he is remitting funds from abroad and retired here. He mentioned the dual tax agreement with Thailand and his country and he had documents to provide. He was basically told to go away and he didn't need to lodge for a tax ID. He tried to argue that he thought he needed to lodge a tax return. They told him it wasn't needed. So, here is the quandary. I have heard of several other expats a experiencing the same issue.

 

And you can add me to the list.

 

I am another.

 

They said to me ' face to face '  they have had no instructions nor directives.

 

They registered my pink card for tax purposes but said to me smiling  and jokingly in a friendly way, 'Don't call us, we'll call you'

 

I keep saying this on this message board, but so many seem to be hitting hysteria, I stopped commenting.

[Scouse123]

Guys,

 

If it's any consolation to some here having panic attacks, I got all my transfers from Barclays bank, I got similar bank statements from KTB that marry up to my transfers. KTB charged me 200 baht to print it all out.

 

Furthermore, those of you who use WISE, they have just sent me a statement verifying my transfers using them for last year. I can't be the only one, many of you must have received this from WISE.

 

I have copied, printed and put all the lot in a file labelled Thai Tax.

 

All these allowances, I have done my research, so much so, I went to the disabilities' office in Kalasin, and found I could claim an additional 210,000 baht allowance, because I have a disability, and I am still only 62.

 

I have a signed and stamped document from the disabilities' office, no, I didn't get the disability card, because they stated that those cards are linked to Thai people so they can get disability payments from the Thai government.

 

The document was signed by multiple officers, it took all day.

 

So, I have been proactive, if any bugger comes knocking on my door. I have a file full of documents.

 

The local tax office, and I repeat, gave me a ' Don't call us, we'll call you ' answer.

 

I honestly think they are in a better position than AN board members.

 

I WILL NOT GET DRAGGED FURTHER INTO THIS DEBATE THAT IS NEVER ENDING ON IF'S, BUT'S AND WHAT IFS .

 

Now that's the truth, the whole truth, do with it as you wish or totally ignore my post because I am past caring.

[motdaeng]

2 hours ago, RSD1 said:

There are structures and there are structures. There are ones that where you could still transfer money in and not be taxed. 
 

Anyway, I saw the following comment posted today on an Integrity Legal YouTube video. It's anecdotal, but I don't doubt that it is valid too:

 

A mate of mine went to tax office here in Thailand. Asked for tax ID and explained he is remitting funds from abroad and retired here. He mentioned the dual tax agreement with Thailand and his country and he had documents to provide. He was basically told to go away and he didn't need to lodge for a tax ID. He tried to argue that he thought he needed to lodge a tax return. They told him it wasn't needed. So, here is the quandary. I have heard of several other expats a experiencing the same issue.

isn't it funny how everyone here knows how inconsistent and unreliable government officials can be with their answers...  

 

yet, if a low-level employee at the TRD says, "no need to file a tax return," that answer is immediately taken as fact ...

 

[Scouse123]

21 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

isn't it funny how everyone here knows how inconsistent and unreliable government officials can be with their answers...  

 

yet, if a low-level employee at the TRD says, "no need to file a tax return," that answer is immediately taken as fact ...

 

 

As opposed to listening to an unqualified non-official on a message board, wanting us to believe their view of things without verification?...😆

[Scouse123]

Too many turkeys here wishing for Christmas.

 

I've explained above already, I've done my research and covered my bases.

 

How do I sleep?

 

With the fan on full and my ass in the aircon.

[motdaeng]

28 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

 

As opposed to listening to an unqualified non-official on a message board, wanting us to believe their view of things without verification?...😆

 

some of us, apparently not you, were officially informed about the changes in tax laws through personal emails from our embassy in bangkok.

 

interestingly, just last week, i received a letter from my bank in my home country listing my assets, which, according to the OECD agreement, can be shared for tax-related purposes. things are moving on all levels ...