My Thai Tax Office Tax Filing Experience...

[NoDisplayName]

3 hours ago, alanrchase said:

The income was processed under 1. 1. 40(1). That is for salary, wages, pension etc.. Theoretically it should be under interest I suppose but I am retired so it is like a pension to me.

 

If you had entered your foreign interest in 40(4), the system may have required matching with bank withholding records, with option not to declare if tax paid.

 

Might be that the system is designed for the Thai banking system with interest withheld at source, and taxed at a standard 15%.

 

Foreign interest likely does not fall under the Thai 15% rule, and is taxed as normal income, according to your specific tax bracket.

 

Putting the foreign interest as "derived from employment" means you should have paid tax at the 5% rate.  That also allowed you to take the 100K exemption.  If declared as interest, the "pension expense" would not be applicable.

 

Just my guess.

 

 

[NoDisplayName]

On 2/4/2025 at 12:58 PM, alanrchase said:

454,000 transfered from an offshore account, source of funds declared as interest, no dual taxation treaties apply.

 

I assume you were unable to apply a foreign tax credit for any tax paid on that interest?

 

 

[alanrchase]

3 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

If you had entered your foreign interest in 40(4), the system may have required matching with bank withholding records, with option not to declare if tax paid.

 

Might be that the system is designed for the Thai banking system with interest withheld at source, and taxed at a standard 15%.

 

Foreign interest likely does not fall under the Thai 15% rule, and is taxed as normal income, according to your specific tax bracket.

 

Putting the foreign interest as "derived from employment" means you should have paid tax at the 5% rate.  That also allowed you to take the 100K exemption.  If declared as interest, the "pension expense" would not be applicable.

 

Just my guess.

 

 

The calculations were as follows

Declared 454,575

Deductible expenses 100,000

Total 354,575

Thai bank interest 4,542

Total 359,117

Then 2×60,000 deductible for personal allowance for wife and I.

Total 239,117 

First 150,000 tax exempt

Total 89,117

Tax bracket 5%.

5% of 89,117 = 4,455 to be paid

Subtract 681 for withholding tax paid

Total 3,774 tax to be paid.

 

[alanrchase]

11 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

I assume you were unable to apply a foreign tax credit for any tax paid on that interest?

 

 

My accounts are tax free offshore.

[NoDisplayName]

On 2/4/2025 at 12:58 PM, alanrchase said:

454,000 transfered from an offshore account, source of funds declared as interest

 

On 2/4/2025 at 12:58 PM, alanrchase said:

requested a FST for the single transfer I had made in April last year

 

Wait................you declared US$13,500 interest earned entirely in the first quarter of 2024?

 

None of that was "in the bank" prior to Jan 01 2024, and thus non assessable?????????

[alanrchase]

1 minute ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

 

Wait................you declared US$13,500 interest earned entirely in the first quarter of 2024?

 

None of that was "in the bank" prior to Jan 01 2024, and thus non assessable?????????

I am not getting into arguments about whether interest earned was left in the account and savings from 2023 were transferred with the RD over 3,774 baht. I inherited some money from my grandmother years ago, I suppose I could argue that I have not spent any of that yet and am just starting to use it in Thailand. That would be tax free as well. 

[samtam]

19 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

Another Expat Tax video on the Youtubes, thoroughly frustrating.  TRD legal guy drones on endlessly, translator gives a short, muddled, sort of English version, but can't seem to follow the script.

 

Foreigner guy asks what to do if we get conflicting statements from TRD office, if you know you owe tax and need to file, but TRD staff send you away.  Answer -- basically, learn Thai.

 

Foreigner guy asks about filing requirements for non-assessable income.  Answer -- if your social security is not assessable, however if you bring the assessable income and you want a tax credit you need to file the tax return.

 

Foreigner guy asks about prior "cash in the bank"...and he quickly under his breath adds "pre-2024 income that is actually moved into cash."

 

Foreigner guy gets the expected, known answer and says "just for cash in the bank, not pensions, not investments.  great, that's really useful.  fine, so moving on...."   But we already know this, ask the real questions, dammit!  Why move on, instead of following up with, "well, what about investments pre-2024?" 

 

Sad.  Bigly sad.  A prestigious internet law firm should be able to hire a competent translator.

 

 

 

Foreigner guy asks what to do if we get conflicting statements from TRD office, if you know you owe tax and need to file, but TRD staff send you away.  Answer -- basically, learn Thai.

 

 

18 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Did he?  Let's hear from some posters who can translate what the man actually said.

 

It was uncomfortable from the start, as foreign guy was accusing TRD staff of incompetence.  Translator says "sensative question... hahahah ..(nervous laughter)" to which foreigner guy gives him an out by offering stupid foreigners can't speak Thai.

 

TRD legal guy speaks for well over a full minute, and translator guy and foreigner guy agree it's just a language issue, so just bring more paper.

 

He didn't address the issue.  Foreign shows up, claims need to file due to assessable income, TRD official either isn't interested or doesn't know how to do the job.

 

Watch the body language of TRD legal guy during the explanation.  If he was in court for a parking ticket, the jury would find him guilty of murder!

 

Foreigner guy just goes along with the farce, "just need to take documentary evidence to prove you owe tax."

 

"and yeah, ok, clear, that makes sense."

 

Translator says "sensative question... hahahah ..(nervous laughter)" to which foreigner guy gives him an out by offering stupid foreigners can't speak Thai.

 

 

18 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

I accept this, but will it "fly" with your immigration office at extension time, or the immigration desk at the airport? 

 

The TRD gets your bank remittance details.  Somchai at your local TRD says, "No need to file" because it's near his lunch break.

 

Is it soooo left field that Somchai gave the wrong advice, and you may have problems down the track? 

 

Yeah, yeah, I know.  In Somchai we trust, and it's just scaremongering blah blah blah. 

 

@NoDisplayName & @KhunHeineken

 

Yes, I felt the same way about this webinar, TRD Q&A. Blaming the various interpretations/responses given by different TRD officers/offices reported by many foreigners "on language difficulties" is completely wrong, (in my experience). Every inquiry I have made to TRD, by phone or in person within Sathorn district (there are several offices) have received varying replies, and have been made by a Thai person in Thai. Language has nothing to do with it. A complete lack of clarity from TRD management is to blame. Of course it's a "sensitive subject", because it exposes the incompetence of this exercise, the norm for Thai bureaucracy.

 

 

16 hours ago, WingNut said:

 

I wanted to add that if you only submit photo copies of your bankbook pages that they could still request statements later if they decide to dig deeper. It might seem redundant, but it is a known fact that bankbooks in Thailand often don't contain all the transactions that occurred on the account whereas a statement does. This is why the Immigration department requires 12 month's of bank statements, in addition to the updated bankbook, when extending a long term visa.

 

For me the issue is submitting bank statements of my accounts in another country, where the transactions, (ATM withdrawals, debit card usage, QR debits and pensions and dividends all take place). I have prepared an Excel reconciliation sheet, but it would be difficult to follow if the checker here is not familiar with a composite multicurrency bank statement, and when for example my UK State Pension is paid into my UK account and partially transferred to my foreign multicurrency account in GBP, and then converted to HKD or THB depending on my required usage.

 

But if it's paper they want, however meaningless to them, they can have it. My only fear is giving all this information, like name & account numbers and data protection being flouted, as it routinely is by government agencies.

[NoDisplayName]

2 hours ago, alanrchase said:

I am not getting into arguments about whether interest earned was left in the account and savings from 2023 were transferred with the RD over 3,774 baht. I inherited some money from my grandmother years ago, I suppose I could argue that I have not spent any of that yet and am just starting to use it in Thailand. That would be tax free as well. 

 

Not arguing.  Merely asking for clarification.  This is all new to most here, and the rules are.........complicated.

 

Asked about tax credits, because none have reported actually filing with a tax credit approved.  (unless I missed one)

 

Asking whether your interest (which really wasn't interest?) was earned pre-2024, but TRD wouldn't let you claim prior savings.

 

It appears you could easily have self-determined, and provided documentation if asked, that your remittances were all non-assessable.

 

In that case you didn't need to pay tax, didn't need to file, and may not have even needed a TIN.

 

It appears you chose to self-determine, for your own reasons, that your remittances were assessable, and chose to owe tax.

 

Again, not arguing, asking for clarification.  Your case would be atypical.

[WingNut]

1 hour ago, samtam said:

For me the issue is submitting bank statements of my accounts in another country, where the transactions, (ATM withdrawals, debit card usage, QR debits and pensions and dividends all take place). I have prepared an Excel reconciliation sheet, but it would be difficult to follow if the checker here is not familiar with a composite multicurrency bank statement, and when for example my UK State Pension is paid into my UK account and partially transferred to my foreign multicurrency account in GBP, and then converted to HKD or THB depending on my required usage.

 

But if it's paper they want, however meaningless to them, they can have it. My only fear is giving all this information, like name & account numbers and data protection being flouted, as it routinely is by government agencies.

 

I understand your concern. There are two possible solutions:

 

1 - Set up a second bank account at the same Thai bank you are using now, dedicated solely to incoming transfers. Once the funds arrive, transfer them to your older primary account for everyday spending. This keeps one account "clean," showing only incoming transfers on its statements. I use a similar setup already. My transfer account has no daily spending activity, just a few incoming and outgoing transfers to my other Thai bank accounts and some occasional interest. My main account handles all my regular transactions, keeping things organized and reducing the chance of the TRD scrutinizing other regular spending activities.

 

2 - Provide them funds transfer receipts instead of bank statements. Instead of submitting full bank statements, you can provide copies of transfer receipts from your sending bank as supporting documentation for the amount you are claiming you transferred in as income for the year. I should have done that this year, but I didn't think of it at the time. But this is my planned approach going forward. Since I send all my funds transfers to my Thai bank account through Wise, I can easily download PDF receipts from my Wise account for all the transfers. Next year, I’ll submit only those receipts, ensuring they all add up to the total amount declared as income on my tax return.

[alanrchase]

1 hour ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Not arguing.  Merely asking for clarification.  This is all new to most here, and the rules are.........complicated.

 

Asked about tax credits, because none have reported actually filing with a tax credit approved.  (unless I missed one)

 

Asking whether your interest (which really wasn't interest?) was earned pre-2024, but TRD wouldn't let you claim prior savings.

 

It appears you could easily have self-determined, and provided documentation if asked, that your remittances were all non-assessable.

 

In that case you didn't need to pay tax, didn't need to file, and may not have even needed a TIN.

 

It appears you chose to self-determine, for your own reasons, that your remittances were assessable, and chose to owe tax.

 

Again, not arguing, asking for clarification.  Your case would be atypical.

Not saying you are arguing, saying I don't want an argument with the TRD. 

The  money is interest.

Yes, I could just tell myself the money transferred was pre 2024 but as I was paid interest from the account in 2024 how would I prove to the TRD that I transferred pre 2024 capital and not the interest earned? Maybe they would never ask but for this year I am happy to keep it simple. 

If there is more clarification about what they will and will not accept during the year I will adapt to any confirmed information.

[KhunHeineken]

3 hours ago, samtam said:

Yes, I felt the same way about this webinar, TRD Q&A. Blaming the various interpretations/responses given by different TRD officers/offices reported by many foreigners "on language difficulties" is completely wrong, (in my experience). Every inquiry I have made to TRD, by phone or in person within Sathorn district (there are several offices) have received varying replies, and have been made by a Thai person in Thai. Language has nothing to do with it. A complete lack of clarity from TRD management is to blame. Of course it's a "sensitive subject", because it exposes the incompetence of this exercise, the norm for Thai bureaucracy.

I've always said there will be chaos, but at the end of the day, the Thai's will turn a baht out of this. 

 

There's already some chaos, and some members have already filed, so they have turned a baht out of it. 

 

What remains to be seen is how hard they go at every single baht, from every single person.   

[Jingthing]

27 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

I've always said there will be chaos, but at the end of the day, the Thai's will turn a baht out of this. 

 

There's already some chaos, and some members have already filed, so they have turned a baht out of it. 

 

What remains to be seen is how hard they go at every single baht, from every single person.   

Most likely it will be a gradual thing over the next few years. But the trouble with that for expats is that they have the power to demand back year audits.