Musk targets Social Security with blatant misinformation

[NoDisplayName]

3 minutes ago, Dan O said:

Nice try but you need to do some research as its not just about using id or not. Each state has different requirements normally but the GOP has been actively working to eliminate ability to vote at all for many classes of citizens outside the usa in some of those cases 

 

Well, you can post those isolated incidents.  I did a quick googles, and it was about 1) lack of ID/proof of citizenship, and 2) voting in a state never a resident in.

[cdemundo]

1 hour ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

How nice of you to be so generous with other peoples' earnings!

 

I can fix it!  Let's just take more of that guy's money and give it to that illegal alien guy over there!

Hysterical old hen, "give it to that illegal alien guy over there!"

 

Once again, no reports of illegal aliens collecting Social Security, you are probably thinking of dining on cats and dogs.

 

My earnings required FICA contributions to the full extent of my earnings, why should high income individuals not pay to the full extent of their earnings?

What is the basis for exempting earnings over a certain limit?

 

Anyway it's clear you are not interested in solving the problem just calling names.

[NoDisplayName]

6 minutes ago, cdemundo said:

My earnings required FICA contributions to the full extent of my earnings, why should high income individuals not pay to the full extent of their earnings?

What is the basis for exempting earnings over a certain limit?

 

Your benefits are much greater than the sum of your contributions.

 

That other guy over there pays much more, but his benefits are capped, so it's nothing but a cash grab.

 

What is the basis for exempting earnings over a certain limit?  That would be the limiting of benefits over a certain limit.  Drop the cap on contributions should be followed by dropping the cap on benefits.

 

You want to have that other guys' cake and you and the illegals can eat it, too.

[cdemundo]

27 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Your benefits are much greater than the sum of your contributions.

 

That other guy over there pays much more, but his benefits are capped, so it's nothing but a cash grab.

 

What is the basis for exempting earnings over a certain limit?  That would be the limiting of benefits over a certain limit.  Drop the cap on contributions should be followed by dropping the cap on benefits.

 

You want to have that other guys' cake and you and the illegals can eat it, too.

You clearly don't know what you are talking about.

Once again the obsession with illegals, get help.

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, Dan O said:

Nice try but you need to do some research as its not just about using id or not. Each state has different requirements normally but the GOP has been actively working to eliminate ability to vote at all for many classes of citizens outside the usa in some of those cases 

You have stated this as fact several times and it is not true. You are a liar. 

 

 

[mogandave]

1 hour ago, candide said:

You replied to my post with your usual deflections. If you want to comment on the subject of my post which was that Trump was diffusing Russian disinformation, you are welcomed and will get a reply.

Run away brave leftie, run away!

[Yellowtail]

41 minutes ago, cdemundo said:

You clearly don't know what you are talking about.

Once again the obsession with illegals, get help.

There is a cap on Social Secuity benefits, that's why there is a cap on Social Security contributions. As was said, if you want to remove the cap on contributions, remover the cap on benefits. 

 

There is no cap on Medicare benefits, and Medicare contributions are not capped. 

 

What is the maximum Social Security retirement benefit payable? | Frequently Asked Questions | SSA

[candide]

45 minutes ago, mogandave said:

Run away brave leftie, run away!

Blah blah

[Dan O]

50 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

You have stated this as fact several times and it is not true. You are a liar. 

 

 

It is quite true. They tried to exclude citizens not just on id issue but proof of residencies and in  family relationships. They had lawsuits in 4 states that I know of and had to resubmit as the courts refused to accept them as filled. Again time for your nap

[Yellowtail]

8 minutes ago, Dan O said:

It is quite true. They tried to exclude citizens not just on id issue but proof of residencies and in  family relationships. They had lawsuits in 4 states that I know of and had to resubmit as the courts refused to accept them as filled. Again time for your nap

 

You have not supported your claim, and the one link you provided proved you were lying. 

 

Now you are doubling down with your false claims. 

 

If you are a resident of a state, why should you be permitted to be registered to vote in a state. 

 

The left wants to allow people that live overseas, that have no state residence, and no identification or proof of citizenship to vote in state and federal elections. And you support them. 

 

[Dan O]

28 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

You have not supported your claim, and the one link you provided proved you were lying. 

 

Now you are doubling down with your false claims. 

 

If you are a resident of a state, why should you be permitted to be registered to vote in a state. 

 

The left wants to allow people that live overseas, that have no state residence, and no identification or proof of citizenship to vote in state and federal elections. And you support them. 

 

You post the most moronic replies and I believe you may have some senility issues. I clearly stated in my reply I was only posting 1 link and there are many for the person that claim there were no lawsuits. YOU were not the poster I was replying to. You are just a typical stalker and all mouth hiding behind a keyboard. Im not part of your cult and have no idea why they would file the lawsuits tgey did other than the build up to claim fraud if they lose. Take it up with them. Im done with you on this topic as you haven't any credibility and do nothing but try to make arguments unnecessarily. You are quite lost soul. Good bye  

[Yellowtail]

12 minutes ago, Dan O said:

You post the most moronic replies and I believe you may have some senility issues. I clearly stated in my reply I was only posting 1 link and there are many for the person that claim there were no lawsuits. YOU were not the poster I was replying to. You are just a typical stalker and all mouth hiding behind a keyboard. Im not part of your cult and have no idea why they would file the lawsuits tgey did other than the build up to claim fraud if they lose. Take it up with them. Im done with you on this topic as you haven't any credibility and do nothing but try to make arguments unnecessarily. You are quite lost soul. Good bye  

So now, because you are not able to support your false claims, you attack me personally, typical leftist. 

 

I never claimed there were no lawsuits, I only said that your claim that the GOP is attempting to limit voting rights of some citizen groups living outside the USA was false. You have not supported your claim, because it untrue, and the one link you provided proved you were lying. 

 

Again, if you are not a resident of a state, why should you be permitted to be registered to vote in a state? 

 

Again, the left wants to allow people that live overseas, that have no state residence, and no identification or proof of citizenship to vote in state and federal elections. And you support them. Why? 

[Purdey]

When someone says I found 150-year-olds claiming social security which is against the law, should they be prosecuted immediately? Would the court cases be evidence that there is some possibility of truth to this allegation, and should no prosecutions mean that Musk is lying?

[gamb00ler]

On 2/19/2025 at 1:51 PM, Patong2021 said:

The issue is whether it is fair to the US taxpayers that the benefits be topped up  by the US taxpayers and that excess to be spent outside of the USA. 

Currently no income taxes(except the tax on SS benefits) go towards social security benefits.  I am not positive about the benefits in the early years of SS but for decades already the benefits are funded completely by those who contributed.  There is no "topping up" by taxpayers and there is no "excess" that SS recipients are spending.

 

There is no transfer of income tax dollars to SS and also no transfer of SS funds to general federal government revenue streams.

 

Before the boomers started retiring, the SS trust fund grew every year.  It was earning interest at the same rate as the Treasury bills that are sold to investors.

 

[Yellowtail]

26 minutes ago, Purdey said:

When someone says I found 150-year-olds claiming social security which is against the law, should they be prosecuted immediately? Would the court cases be evidence that there is some possibility of truth to this allegation, and should no prosecutions mean that Musk is lying?

How do you know there are no prosecutions? 

 

It took the Biden Administration New York almost eight years to prosecute Trump. 

 

The same leftists that are howling that Musk has access to Social Security for "privacy issues", are howling for Musk to make everyone's information public before even an investigation, much less a conviction. 

 

You guys crack me up. 

[placeholder]

5 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

How nice of you to be so generous with other peoples' earnings!

 

I can fix it!  Let's just take more of that guy's money and give it to that illegal alien guy over there!

Thanks for the remarkably clueless comment. In fact, illegal aliens pay into social security but they don't get anything back out of it. They are net contributors.

[Yellowtail]

36 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Thanks for the remarkably clueless comment. In fact, illegal aliens pay into social security but they don't get anything back out of it. They are net contributors.

More leftist nonsense. Illegal aliens only pay into SS if they are working legitimate jobs, with legitimate companies that make the deductions. 

 

And they get their medical and other benefits while they are in the US, and the bit they "pay" in hardly covers it. 

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

More leftist nonsense. Illegal aliens only pay into SS if they are working legitimate jobs, with legitimate companies that make the deductions. 

 

And they get their medical and other benefits while they are in the US, and the bit they "pay" in hardly covers it. 

I didn't say all illegal aliens pay into the system. But the fact is a lot do.

 

In total, the tax contribution of undocumented immigrants amounted to 26.1 percent of their incomes in 2022. This figure is close to the 26.4 percent rate facing the median income group of the overall U.S. population.^[5] This closeness is the net result of factors that tend to lower the tax contributions of undocumented immigrants relative to U.S. citizens (such as lower incomes, lower income tax compliance, and lower smoking rates), as well as factors that tend to increase the contributions of those immigrants (such as tax credit restrictions, reduced likelihood of claiming refunds owed, and lower prevalence of tax-preferred retirement and investment income). These issues are discussed in more detail in the report methodology.

https://itep.org/undocumented-immigrants-taxes-2024/

Are you claiming that the taxes illegal aliens pay into the system don't cover what they cost the government? Show a link to evidence to back up that claim.

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I didn't say all illegal aliens pay into the system. But the fact is a lot do.

 

In total, the tax contribution of undocumented immigrants amounted to 26.1 percent of their incomes in 2022. This figure is close to the 26.4 percent rate facing the median income group of the overall U.S. population.^[5] This closeness is the net result of factors that tend to lower the tax contributions of undocumented immigrants relative to U.S. citizens (such as lower incomes, lower income tax compliance, and lower smoking rates), as well as factors that tend to increase the contributions of those immigrants (such as tax credit restrictions, reduced likelihood of claiming refunds owed, and lower prevalence of tax-preferred retirement and investment income). These issues are discussed in more detail in the report methodology.

https://itep.org/undocumented-immigrants-taxes-2024/

Are you claiming that the taxes illegal aliens pay into the system don't cover what they cost the government? Show a link to evidence to back up that claim.

We were talking about Social Security, and now you changed the subject to all taxes, including sales, gasoline, and every other tax. 

 

And how do they know what their total income is? They have no way of knowing. As is typical, they made it up. 

 

And the leftist "study" you linked claims there are less than eleven million illegal aliens in the US. 

 

 

[John Drake]

3 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

Currently no income taxes(except the tax on SS benefits) go towards social security benefits.  I am not positive about the benefits in the early years of SS but for decades already the benefits are funded completely by those who contributed.  There is no "topping up" by taxpayers and there is no "excess" that SS recipients are spending.

 

There is no transfer of income tax dollars to SS and also no transfer of SS funds to general federal government revenue streams.

 

Before the boomers started retiring, the SS trust fund grew every year.  It was earning interest at the same rate as the Treasury bills that are sold to investors.

 

 

Without looking it up, my light reading on social security shows that contributions closely match benefits rendered. It was something like one percent or so, with there being a positive balance in some recent years. The problem is with medicare and medicaid, which outstrip contribution by 85 percent.

[John Drake]

20 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I didn't say all illegal aliens pay into the system. But the fact is a lot do.

 

In total, the tax contribution of undocumented immigrants amounted to 26.1 percent of their incomes in 2022. This figure is close to the 26.4 percent rate facing the median income group of the overall U.S. population.^[5] This closeness is the net result of factors that tend to lower the tax contributions of undocumented immigrants relative to U.S. citizens (such as lower incomes, lower income tax compliance, and lower smoking rates), as well as factors that tend to increase the contributions of those immigrants (such as tax credit restrictions, reduced likelihood of claiming refunds owed, and lower prevalence of tax-preferred retirement and investment income). These issues are discussed in more detail in the report methodology.

https://itep.org/undocumented-immigrants-taxes-2024/

Are you claiming that the taxes illegal aliens pay into the system don't cover what they cost the government? Show a link to evidence to back up that claim.

 

Question: how does the amount going into social security compare to the amounts being paid out to illegals using ITINS who then turn around and claim EITC?

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

We were talking about Social Security, and now you changed the subject to all taxes, including sales, gasoline, and every other tax. 

 

And how do they know what their total income is? They have no way of knowing. As is typical, they made it up. 

 

And the leftist "study" you linked claims there are less than eleven million illegal aliens in the US. 

 

 

Do you read what you write? You're the one who threw in the bit about illegal aliens not paying for health care and all that stuff. If you want to confine it to social security payments, the payments illegal aliens make into social security are definitely a net plus for the government. As for the rest of your nonsense, it's what you usually resort to when you have nothing to offer which is virtually always. Come on, for a change link to something that actually backs up what you claim. 

[placeholder]

6 minutes ago, John Drake said:

 

Question: how does the amount going into social security compare to the amounts being paid out to illegals using ITINS who then turn around and claim EITC?

To claim EITC, you have to have a social security number. An ITIN won't do it.

https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/individuals/earned-income-tax-credit/who-qualifies-for-the-earned-income-tax-credit-eitc

[gamb00ler]

7 minutes ago, placeholder said:

If you want to confine it to social security payments, the payments illegal aliens make into social security are definitely a net plus for the government

The government gets NONE of the social security taxes paid by illegal aliens.  All money collected by employment taxes goes into the SS trust fund.  It is the people receiving SS benefits that are being rewarded in that the SS trust fund will last somewhat longer than it would without illegal aliens contributions.

 

Illegal aliens pay into the SS trust fund but will not be able to collect unless they become permanent residents or citizens.

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

Do you read what you write? You're the one who threw in the bit about illegal aliens not paying for health care and all that stuff. If you want to confine it to social security payments, the payments illegal aliens make into social security are definitely a net plus for the government. As for the rest of your nonsense, it's what you usually resort to when you have nothing to offer which is virtually always. Come on, for a change link to something that actually backs up what you claim. 

Do you believe there are fewer than 11 million illegal aliens in the US? 

 

“Illegal immigration costs each American taxpayer $1,156 per year ($957 after factoring in taxes paid by illegal aliens).”

“Each illegal alien or U.S.-born child of illegal aliens costs the U.S. $8,776 annually.”

 

CBO: Medicaid Spending on Illegal Aliens Has Cost Taxpayers over $16.2 Billion Under Open Border Czar Harris | The U.S. House Committee on the Budget - House Budget Committee

 

[John Drake]

Just now, placeholder said:

To claim EITC, you have to have a social security number. An ITIN won't do it.

https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/individuals/earned-income-tax-credit/who-qualifies-for-the-earned-income-tax-credit-eitc

 

Okay. I see you're correct. I thought I remembered them using it 25 years or so ago. But I guess I was wrong. I did just find this. So how is the child tax credit different from EITC and its availability.

Quote

The question is frequently asked whether aliens who enter or remain in the United States in violation of federal immigration law (called unlawfully present aliens for purposes of this report) are permitted to claim refundable tax credits. There is no general provision in the Internal Revenue Code (IRC) prohibiting unlawfully present aliens from claiming refundable tax credits. Rather, the restrictions that exist are established on a credit-by-credit basis. For example, one credit—the earned income tax credit (EITC)—requires that taxpayers provide work-authorized Social Security numbers (SSNs) for themselves, a spouse if filing a joint return, and any qualifying children. Because of this requirement, aliens who are not authorized to work in the United States are ineligible for the credit. This treatment can be contrasted with another credit, the additional child tax credit, which does not have an SSN requirement and can be claimed by taxpayers regardless of their immigration or work authorization status. A related issue is whether any refundable tax credits are “Federal public benefits” under the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996 (PRWORA). Section 401 of that act disallows such benefits to unlawfully present aliens. If any refundable tax credits were federal public benefits, it could be argued the credits should be disallowed to these aliens, even if the IRC does not contain such a restriction. It appears the IRS does not interpret PRWORA to apply to refundable tax credits. No court has examined this issue, and Congress has not taken any action to address it legislatively. Thus, at this time, the only clear restrictions on the ability of unlawfully present aliens to claim refundable tax credits are those found in the IRC. https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/R/R44290/4

 

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, John Drake said:

 

Okay. I see you're correct. I thought I remembered them using it 25 years or so ago. But I guess I was wrong. I did just find this. So how is the child tax credit different from EITC and its availability.

 

I wasn't aware that people who have an ITIN number pay taxes.

[John Drake]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I wasn't aware that people who have an ITIN number pay taxes.

 

This says they do: 

Quote

The Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN) is a tax-processing number issued by the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) to ensure that people—including undocumented immigrants—pay taxes even if they do not have a Social Security number (SSN) and regardless of their immigration status. https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/facts-about-individual-taxpayer-identification-number-itin

 

[gamb00ler]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I wasn't aware that people who have an ITIN number pay taxes.

I'm only familiar with the use of ITINs in the gambling world.  Foreigners having gambling income in the US may have some percentage of their win withheld.  They can file US taxes (using an ITIN) as a non-resident alien and may end up paying less tax than was withheld.  Usually they do end up giving Uncle Sam a cut.

[placeholder]

12 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Do you believe there are fewer than 11 million illegal aliens in the US? 

 

“Illegal immigration costs each American taxpayer $1,156 per year ($957 after factoring in taxes paid by illegal aliens).”

“Each illegal alien or U.S.-born child of illegal aliens costs the U.S. $8,776 annually.”

 

CBO: Medicaid Spending on Illegal Aliens Has Cost Taxpayers over $16.2 Billion Under Open Border Czar Harris | The U.S. House Committee on the Budget - House Budget Committee

 

And what's that got to do with the social security trust fund? Are you back on to the issues that you criticize me for addressing? You know, the issues that you originally raised.