Zelensky Pushes Back Against Trump’s “Disinformation” on Ukraine War

[RayC]

5 hours ago, dinsdale said:

Cheers but don't listen too hard to the ramblings of some on here. What's happened are just initial talks to test the waters with Russia. Trump himself has said that Ukraine necessarily needs to be included in any negotiations toward a cease fire/peace accord. In the end Russia will keep most of the eastern region they have taken. I can't realistically see any way around this. Zelenkyy's position to bargain is not strong.  As for threatening Putin with boots on ground I can't see this happening either. Putin's hip pocket will need to be threatened and this will be focused toward oil and gas exports. Without income from this (which of course is most definitely helping to fund his war) the Russian economy will be in big problems.

 

Trump appears to view Ukraine's role as little more than a rubber stamping exercise.

 

They may have been initial talks but publicly stating that Ukraine 1) will not join NATO 2) will have to cede territory and 3) Zelensky is to blame for starting the war, seems a pretty strange opening gambit. With friends like that, etc.

 

Given Trump's proclamations I agree that It is difficult to see how Ukraine can revert to its' pre-war borders. Sadly, it is also difficult to view the likely outcome as anything other than almost total victory for Putin.

 

Russia is suffering economically - inflation is rampant - and she is almost certainly storing problems for further down the line - but, sadly, sanctions are only having a limited effect. There doesn't appear to be major food shortages, so the Russia public are unlikely to revolt. Wrt oil and gas exports. There are no shortage of willing buyers e.g. China, India, Turkey. Although revenues (in $ terms) dropped significantly in 2022 since then they have been relatively stable. Increasing the hit to Putin's pocket is no easy task.

[dinsdale]

5 hours ago, KireB said:

I didn't know you were a Trump fan or voter even, though I could have guessed seen your hostile reactions lately.  

 

If you can't understand that both Trump's and Vance's words are increasing the risk of war in Europe, you aren't a very intelligent teacher, whether your 7 year old students give you heart stickers on Valentine's day, or not.

 

Have a fantastic day. 

 

And you base your assumption on what? How exactly is there and increased threat of war in Europe? All you do is spout whatever comes into your head without anything to support it.

[candide]

5 hours ago, Presnock said:

Actually, Trump and Co. just watched as Obama let the Russians take Crimea and Trump has never lambasted Obama for just that even though he seems to have an "Obama" hate for which I can't fault him but to repeat Putin progaganda is non-excusable to me.

Trump was praising Putin for the invasion of  Crimea at that time......

 

Within weeks, Trump praised Putin for how he handled the takeover of Crimea and predicted that “the rest of Ukraine will fall … fairly quickly.” Echoing Kremlin propaganda, Trump said in a TV interview that the Crimean people “would rather be with Russia,” a position he also pushed in private. One of his 2016 campaign aides falsely claimed that “Russia did not seize Crimea.”

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/26/politics/trump-putin-ukraine/index.html

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, Harrisfan said:

I wonder why the left are war mongers and want to spend $200bn on a war to boost oil prices?

I get it, you prefer the genocide of Ukrainians.

 

If you think Putin will stop after he has digested eastern Ukraine, courtesy of Trump, you are no student of history.

[dinsdale]

7 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I get it, you prefer the genocide of Ukrainians.

 

If you think Putin will stop after he has digested eastern Ukraine, courtesy of Trump, you are no student of history.

Putin won't invade any other countries. What is more likely to happen is some eastern block countries will move under the Russian umbrella in a move away from the west.

[Harrisfan]

10 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I get it, you prefer the genocide of Ukrainians.

 

If you think Putin will stop after he has digested eastern Ukraine, courtesy of Trump, you are no student of history.

I'm not a socialist who knows everything.

[frank83628]

51 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Zelensky will not be baited by Trump to hold election. There is never any good intention by Trump. An election is just not possible during an invasion. Soldiers will have to leave the front lines to vote and refugees have to return. If Zelensky win, Trump and Putin will undermine the result and further sow division and confusion. If he lose, Ukraine step into a realm of unknown outcome.
 

If Trump and Putin are serious about an election, agree on a ceasefire and Russia military move far away from the front lines. Military aids are still flowing to Ukraine after a month since Trump ascension. He can’t cancel the congress mandated aids and there are decent republicans in Congress to stop him. Trump is a paper tiger. 

So the unelected dictator remains in power

[Lacessit]

9 minutes ago, Harrisfan said:

I'm not a socialist who knows everything.

As far as I can tell, you know nothing.

[KireB]

9 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Putin won't invade any other countries. What is more likely to happen is some eastern block countries will move under the Russian umbrella in a move away from the west.

What eastern European countries will go back to their Russian umbrella without war? This might be the dumbest comment I 've read in a long time. Thanks for making me laugh.

 

I hope you are an English teacher, and do not teach geography, history or social.

[Lacessit]

4 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

So the unelected dictator remains in power

No country holds elections when they are at war.

 

Liar, as usual.

[dinsdale]

1 minute ago, KireB said:

What eastern European countries will go back to their Russian umbrella without war? This might be the dumbest comment I 've read in a long time. Thanks for making me laugh.

 

I hope you are an English teacher, and do not teach geography, history or social.

Slovakia, Hungary and Bulgaria. All displaying pro-Russian attitudes. As I say you just spout whatever thought bubble comes into your head.

[Harrisfan]

6 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

As far as I can tell, you know nothing.

Correct that's like all magas. We wish we were poor socialists who knew everything.

[KireB]

Just now, dinsdale said:

Slovakia, Hungary and Bulgaria. All displaying pro-Russian attitudes. As I say you just spout whatever thought bubble comes into your head.

Not true at all. You are misinformed, as I have also seen in other posts. Could you show me 1 reliable source claiming these countries wanna go back under Soviet umbrella?

You can't, period. Dumber than dumb comments like this. 

[dinsdale]

15 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

No country holds elections when they are at war.

 

Liar, as usual.

Tuesday, November 2, 1944. US presidential election. Roosevelt who was the incumbent won. Sometimes people just shouldn't post things.

[Lacessit]

14 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Putin won't invade any other countries. What is more likely to happen is some eastern block countries will move under the Russian umbrella in a move away from the west.

Eastern bloc countries rushed for the exits when the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991. Most of their economies improved in leaps and bounds, as the Russians were no longer looting their countries.

 

My congratulations, your post has to be the most stupid I have read on ASEAN in a long time.

[Lacessit]

3 minutes ago, Harrisfan said:

Correct that's like all magas. We wish we were poor socialists who knew everything.

Poor maga, you don't even realise you are being thrown under a bus as it is happening.

 

How's the price of eggs?

[dinsdale]

1 minute ago, KireB said:

Not true at all. You are misinformed, as I have also seen in other posts. Could you show me 1 reliable source claiming these countries wanna go back under Soviet umbrella?

You can't, period. Dumber than dumb comments like this. 

You are misrepresenting my post. This is something you are known for on here not only with my posts but others. I simply said it's more likely than a war in Europe. If you cannot distinguish the difference this is a reflection on you and not me. 

[Eric Loh]

14 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

So the unelected dictator remains in power

He was an elected President by a landslide of over 73%. The Ukraine constitution state that no election should be held while martial law is in effect (country at war). 

 

Now consider yourself educated. 

[dinsdale]

4 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Eastern bloc countries rushed for the exits when the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991. Most of their economies improved in leaps and bounds, as the Russians were no longer looting their countries.

 

My congratulations, your post has to be the most stupid I have read on ASEAN in a long time.

Yet, there are some countries in Eastern Europe that still harbour baffling sympathies for Russia, despite having faced Russian aggression in the past. Slovakia, Bulgaria and Hungary have stood out over the past year as particularly pro-Russia in their attitudes.

A September poll conducted in Slovakia shows that the majority of Slovaks would welcome a Russian military victory over Ukraine. In another survey conducted in May, only 33 percent of Bulgarians and 45 percent of Hungarians perceived Russia as a threat. Hungary, Slovakia, and Bulgaria also tend to show the weakest support in the region for European Union sanctions against Russia, according to a Eurobarometer survey conducted in the fall of 2022.

These attitudes have been reflected in government policies and rhetoric. Bulgaria and Hungary are the only NATO and EU members to have officially refused to deliver arms to Ukraine, echoing the popular belief that doing so would drag these countries into the conflict. Bulgaria’s previous government had to secretly provide Kyiv with ammunition and fuel, concealing the fact from the public.

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/2/6/why-some-eu-countries-still-harbour-pro-russian-sentiments

[Harrisfan]

9 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Slovakia, Hungary and Bulgaria. All displaying pro-Russian attitudes. As I say you just spout whatever thought bubble comes into your head.

He is a socialist. Forgive him.

[Lacessit]

8 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Slovakia, Hungary and Bulgaria. All displaying pro-Russian attitudes. As I say you just spout whatever thought bubble comes into your head.

Slovakia, Hungary and Bulgaria are all NATO members.

 

You seem determined to double down on the dumb posts.

[Harrisfan]

3 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Poor maga, you don't even realise you are being thrown under a bus as it is happening.

 

How's the price of eggs?

I don't know. I go to restaurants. You can't afford it.

[Harrisfan]

Just now, Lacessit said:

Slovakia, Hungary and Bulgaria are all NATO members.

 

You seem determined to double down on the dumb posts.

Smart being broke? Great theory.

[Lacessit]

4 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Yet, there are some countries in Eastern Europe that still harbour baffling sympathies for Russia, despite having faced Russian aggression in the past. Slovakia, Bulgaria and Hungary have stood out over the past year as particularly pro-Russia in their attitudes.

A September poll conducted in Slovakia shows that the majority of Slovaks would welcome a Russian military victory over Ukraine. In another survey conducted in May, only 33 percent of Bulgarians and 45 percent of Hungarians perceived Russia as a threat. Hungary, Slovakia, and Bulgaria also tend to show the weakest support in the region for European Union sanctions against Russia, according to a Eurobarometer survey conducted in the fall of 2022.

These attitudes have been reflected in government policies and rhetoric. Bulgaria and Hungary are the only NATO and EU members to have officially refused to deliver arms to Ukraine, echoing the popular belief that doing so would drag these countries into the conflict. Bulgaria’s previous government had to secretly provide Kyiv with ammunition and fuel, concealing the fact from the public.

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/2/6/why-some-eu-countries-still-harbour-pro-russian-sentiments

What you say may be true.I guess some people don't fight back after a whipping.

 

Going from that to being a vassal of Russia all over again is a logical bridge too far.

 

While the caution is about not offending Russia, Ukraine has shown the Russian army is no longer the second most powerful army in the world.

[Lacessit]

13 minutes ago, Harrisfan said:

I don't know. I go to restaurants. You can't afford it.

Salad roll and mango smoothie at one of my favorite restaurants.

 

I suspect you will never stop bruising yourself, jumping to conclusions.

[KireB]

14 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

You are misrepresenting my post. This is something you are known for on here not only with my posts but others. I simply said it's more likely than a war in Europe. If you cannot distinguish the difference this is a reflection on you and not me. 

No, you said that eastern European countries are willing to join a new kind of Warschaw Pact (Russian umbrella).
Don't tell porkies.

 

[frank83628]

24 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

He was an elected President by a landslide of over 73%. The Ukraine constitution state that no election should be held while martial law is in effect (country at war). 

 

Now consider yourself educated. 

But Zelenskys term ended a year ago, the law states that the president of the Parliament should have taken over.

 

Consider yourself educated further.

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, Summerinsiam said:

While everyone knows that Trump's words should not be taken at face value, it must have come as a shock to Zelensky to be talked about like that. After all, he has spent the last three years being lauded like a superstar and flying around the world, while pushing the same old tired false narrative: that it is an existentialist crisis and not a territorial dispute with its roots in the cold war and the break-up of the former Soviet Union. I am not a Trump fan, but in this instance I think he may be right. You have to talk to your enemy no matter how unpalatable that may be. The current approach is clearly not working: sanctions and isolating Russia have not had the desired effect and on the battlefield the Ukrainians are losing. Indeed, they are currently facing a recruitment crisis, with thousands deserting and unwilling to fight. For them and their European sponsors, it is an outrage that someone has told the truth and shattered the illusion that has been crafted in the last three years. Hegseth was engaging in realpolitik and only saying out loud what most Europeans already knew: that it is not realistic for Ukraine to regain its lost territory or join NATO. It may be just that it does, but sadly we live in the real world. Just because Macron and Starmer keep saying it will happen doesn't make it so. A new approach and a shift in direction and momentum have clearly being needed for some time. What is the alternative? Continue to escalate a war that cannot be won with the ever- present danger that it may eventually engulf the whole world?

You seem to imply that the aggressor should be rewarded with territories that they took illegally and by force and to bow to Putin's demand for Ukraine not joining Nato. Nato is the only entity that can stop Putin;s imperial ambition. WW2 is a reminder to all how imperislistic ambition can lead to world war. 

[Harrisfan]

8 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Salad roll and mango smoothie at one of my favorite restaurants.

 

I suspect you will never stop bruising yourself, jumping to conclusions.

Salad roll 

[Eric Loh]

1 minute ago, frank83628 said:

But Zelenskys term ended a years ago, the lawl states that the president of the Parliament should have taken over.

 

Consider yourself educated further.

There is no President of Parliament in Ukraine.