File online, taxable pension but no tax due. Any docs needed?

[samtam]

As discussed in a previous thread of a broader nature, I plan to e-file my tax return which shows income from pension and dividends paid offshore, and some of which is used in Thailand only by foreign ATM card, or foreign debit card.

 

Does anyone else do this, and what documents do they file with the online filing?

 

NB. No transactions in the aforementioned occur in any Thailand bank account.

[JackGats]

If I understand right, in the online filing you don't provide supporting documents. You file what you know to be true and keep the supporting document at the ready in case they call you to come and explain.

 

My understanding is also that on the online form you don't mention any amount you know to be tax exempt in Thailand. For example my remittances are exempt as per LTR visa. I didn't mention them on the form. I only mentioned my Thai dividends together with the withholding tax. If they call me to check whether I didn't conceal any remittances, I'll show them my LTR visa and the Royal Decree.

[Yumthai]

You should follow your own statement from the other thread.

 

"The longer I wait to file my (e-file) saved PND90, and with the vague statement from the Finance Minister Pichai on 14 February 2025, I am now coming round to thinking it would be better not to file."

[newbee2022]

14 hours ago, samtam said:

As discussed in a previous thread of a broader nature, I plan to e-file my tax return which shows income from pension and dividends paid offshore, and some of which is used in Thailand only by foreign ATM card, or foreign debit card.

 

Does anyone else do this, and what documents do they file with the online filing?

 

NB. No transactions in the aforementioned occur in any Thailand bank account.

I sent bank statements signed by the bank. Also attached receipt of already paid taxes. The bank statement/credit card shows the Location.

[jwest10]

12 hours ago, Yumthai said:

You should follow your own statement from the other thread.

 

"The longer I wait to file my (e-file) saved PND90, and with the vague statement from the Finance Minister Pichai on 14 February 2025, I am now coming round to thinking it would be better not to file."

Yes, indeed and had a look at the e filing and all in Thai and difficult to follow and in my case have no Tin and  told I want get one from the Revenue.

I have been around my local office and get about the 220K but they stated that as my personal allowances are much higher than my income I do not have to file.
Plus the fact I have a Thai friend who has a partner who works in the office stating the same.
Keep a record on paper and many stating also let them chasing you and do not fet on the system.

Also they asked as I have no employment here or monies from work overseas why do want to file?
They stated no need as above.
 

[federicoP]

2 hours ago, newbee2022 said:

I sent bank statements signed by the bank. Also attached receipt of already paid taxes.

How did you send this document?
During the online filing I do not see the possibility to attach documents.

[samtam]

2 hours ago, newbee2022 said:

I sent bank statements signed by the bank. Also attached receipt of already paid taxes. The bank statement/credit card shows the Location.

"Bank statements" are presumably bank statements from a ban in Thailand?

"...show the location" of what?

 

[Again, my Thailand bank statements show zero transactions.]

[newbee2022]

26 minutes ago, samtam said:

"Bank statements" are presumably bank statements from a ban in Thailand?

"...show the location" of what?

 

[Again, my Thailand bank statements show zero transactions.]

The location of ATM. And bank statement without transactions? Attach it.

[samtam]

50 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

The location of ATM. And bank statement without transactions? Attach it.

 

Actually, it would be copies of the passbook, (with some ATM payments into an account), which bears no exact relationship to the withdrawal amount from the foreign bank source, as in I draw THB30K from foreign bank and pay THB20K into Thai bank. You think they would find that useful? Or do they expect unreconcilable supporting documents, which they never bother to check? 

 

The passbook shows "teller ID", which seem to be the same branch, so I presume that is the location.

 

These passbook entries do not reflect the debit card entries on the foreign bank, but maybe again the inability to reconcile the amount on the PND.90 and the supporting documents is (bizarrely) not required.

[newbee2022]

22 minutes ago, samtam said:

 

Actually, it would be copies of the passbook, (with some ATM payments into an account), which bears no exact relationship to the withdrawal amount from the foreign bank source, as in I draw THB30K from foreign bank and pay THB20K into Thai bank. You think they would find that useful? Or do they expect unreconcilable supporting documents, which they never bother to check? 

 

The passbook shows "teller ID", which seem to be the same branch, so I presume that is the location.

 

These passbook entries do not reflect the debit card entries on the foreign bank, but maybe again the inability to reconcile the amount on the PND.90 and the supporting documents is (bizarrely) not required.

Documents, which are not signed/ stamped by the bank will (probably) not be accepted (in my case). Copies definitely not accepted.

[samtam]

16 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

Documents, which are not signed/ stamped by the bank will (probably) not be accepted (in my case). Copies definitely not accepted.

Yes, weird. As long as its signed, relevance doesn't matter.

[Surasak]

A hypothetical question, just asking for a friend you understand? 

A foreign 'cash' card loaded from a foreign bank, can exchange foreign cash to THB within the app. As a VISA card it can be used to purchase goods and/or services, within Thailand. This means cash is not transferred to a Thai bank via the usual banking methods.

As such, do these transactions require to be reported to the TRD, as in most cases it would keep the card holder within the TRD allowances?  

[Phulublub]

49 minutes ago, Surasak said:

A hypothetical question, just asking for a friend you understand? 

A foreign 'cash' card loaded from a foreign bank, can exchange foreign cash to THB within the app. As a VISA card it can be used to purchase goods and/or services, within Thailand. This means cash is not transferred to a Thai bank via the usual banking methods.

As such, do these transactions require to be reported to the TRD, as in most cases it would keep the card holder within the TRD allowances?  

While using a card for ptuchases may not be " not transferred to a Thai bank via the usual banking methods." it is still a remittance of funds from abroad into Thailand. 

 

Whether the TRD can, or will, monitor such transactions is not relevant, but many have suggested that since there will be huge numbers of non-tax residents doing this, it would not be feasible or economic for them to do so for the few Thai tax residents for whom it would give rise to assessable income that would be taxed. 

 

In my case, all of my remittances are exempt by virtue of being non-assessable income or from savings held prior to 31 Dec 24....but I am maintaining clear records of all my remittances, including my foreign CC purchases, so that if ever asked I can show why I have no Thai Tax liability.

 

PH

[Surasak]

5 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

While using a card for ptuchases may not be " not transferred to a Thai bank via the usual banking methods." it is still a remittance of funds from abroad into Thailand. 

 

Whether the TRD can, or will, monitor such transactions is not relevant, but many have suggested that since there will be huge numbers of non-tax residents doing this, it would not be feasible or economic for them to do so for the few Thai tax residents for whom it would give rise to assessable income that would be taxed. 

 

In my case, all of my remittances are exempt by virtue of being non-assessable income or from savings held prior to 31 Dec 24....but I am maintaining clear records of all my remittances, including my foreign CC purchases, so that if ever asked I can show why I have no Thai Tax liability.

 

PH

The app keeps records and has done for the past 9 years. Any records are easily downloaded as are statements as required.

[topt]

11 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

savings held prior to 31 Dec 24.

I do hope you meant 2023.......

 

[Fred99]

I got my Thai teacher to help me do the filing online, it would have been difficult without her help, but once she did help me, it was easy. I was totally honest with my filing as it did not result in too much to pay relative to how much I feel I benefit from being here, I also switched to an LTR visa this year, which means going forwards I don't pay tax on my worldwide income. I reviewed my credit card statements to get everything I bought in Thailand on it and you can get a statement from your Thai bank for interest and withholding tax. I did not supply any bank or credit statements as supporting information however, as you say, there is no place on online filing I could see where I could upload.  I just know that should I be investigated, I am squeaky clean. I have no comments on those that say they won't file, I totally get that point of view also. For me, I value being able to stay here long term and paying a small amount of tax correctly this year and having no fear of any false statements come back to bite me in the future is worth it to me. 

[samtam]

6 hours ago, jwest10 said:

Yes, indeed and had a look at the e filing and all in Thai and difficult to follow and in my case have no Tin and  told I want get one from the Revenue.

I have been around my local office and get about the 220K but they stated that as my personal allowances are much higher than my income I do not have to file.
Plus the fact I have a Thai friend who has a partner who works in the office stating the same.
Keep a record on paper and many stating also let them chasing you and do not fet on the system.

Also they asked as I have no employment here or monies from work overseas why do want to file?
They stated no need as above.
 

 

Whilst what you say makes complete sense to me, your TRD office doesn't obviously follow the Thai Revenue Department guidelines:

 

Quote

 

1. Residents of Thailand If you stay in Thailand for the total of at least 180 days in the tax year, you are considered a “resident of Thailand” for tax purposes. You have to file a return on the income that you received if you meet one of the following conditions:

 

(1) Your total income exceeded 60,000 baht in the tax year.

 

(2) You were married and your income combined with that of your spouse exceeded 120,000 baht in the tax year.

 

(3) You are a Community Enterprise, which is a non-registered ordinary partnership or a non-juristic body of persons registered and received a Certificate of Registration from the Department of Agricultural Extension, with the total income exceeding 1,800,000 baht in the tax year, or with the total income exceeding 60,000 baht in the tax year, but not more than 1,800,000 baht with an exemption from income tax under rules and conditions prescribed by the Director-General.

 

 

The rest of what they've told you is not covered in the Guideline, (income after TEDA, no salary in Thailand etc). Also they do not define "remittance", as in money brought in / accessed via a method other than an overseas bank transfer. So called Thai tax experts, including those who have wheeled out TRD staff state otherwise.

 

There is simply no consistency from one office or officer to another. Perhaps the Finance Minister is realising they have opened a subject which has no concise rules. Until they do, it is anybody's guess whether one should file or not; and I've "heard" both sides numerous times, but not a specific clear directive from the Thai Revenue Department, in writing, other than the "Guideline" aforementioned.

[jwest10]

1 minute ago, samtam said:

 

Whilst what you say makes complete sense to me, your TRD office doesn't obviously follow the Thai Revenue Department guidelines:

 

 

The rest of what they've told you is not covered in the Guideline, (income after TEDA, no salary in Thailand etc). Also they do not define "remittance", as in money brought in / accessed via a method other than an overseas bank transfer. So called Thai tax experts, including those who have wheeled out TRD staff state otherwise.

 

There is simply no consistency from one office or officer to another. Perhaps the Finance Minister is realising they have opened a subject which has no concise rules. Until they do, it is anybody's guess whether one should file or not; and I've "heard" both sides numerous times, but not a specific clear directive from the Thai Revenue Department.

Precisely and when one has a Thai friend whose partner has a friend actually working in the Office stating the same thing and why volunteer information and get on their system and yes get the 220K but when they recognise you and stating do not worry about it and yes those who say get a letter but they don't do/
Hang fire and keep written and manual records but not needed!!!

[jwest10]

2 minutes ago, jwest10 said:

Precisely and when one has a Thai friend whose partner has a friend actually working in the Office stating the same thing and why volunteer information and get on their system and yes get the 220K but when they recognise you and stating do not worry about it and yes those who say get a letter but they don't do/
Hang fire and keep written and manual records but not needed!!!

 

[DaRoadrunner]

Wait n see as none of this may ever happen. I can't be arsed to file. If they want me they'll have to come get me. 

[motdaeng]

2 hours ago, DaRoadrunner said:

Wait n see as none of this may ever happen. I can't be arsed to file. If they want me they'll have to come get me. 

 

it's the other way around ... if they want you, you have to go to them ... 

[supersomchai]

You dont need a tax advisor i just asked chatGPT, shows all the tax thresholds/allowances/ punch in your circumstances and out comes what you have to pay (even says i get 60,000 

allowance for my thai wife).😀

[jwest10]

2 hours ago, supersomchai said:

You dont need a tax advisor i just asked chatGPT, shows all the tax thresholds/allowances/ punch in your circumstances and out comes what you have to pay (even says i get 60,000 

allowance for my thai wife).😀

Subject: Thailand Tax Summary

Hi,

Here’s a summary of my Thailand tax situation:

• Personal Allowance: 500,000 THB per year.
• Income Sent to Thailand: Below this amount.
• Employment Income: None (in Thailand or elsewhere).
• UK Pensions: Already taxed in the UK, so not taxable in Thailand.
• Savings: Exempt from Thai tax.
• Thai Revenue Department: Confirmed that I do not need to file a tax return.
• 220,000 THB Rule: Applies to Thai employment income, not foreign income.

✅ No tax owed, no need to file a return.

Keeping this for reference in case anything changes in the future.

[jwest10]

This information is correct as per chat GPT and even more importantly the Revenue Department locally and the personal  allowance could rise a little.
Yes the State Pension is my only assessible income and is way down on the 500K personal allowances including the 150K income tax allowance.
And been told several times and also I know someone who works in my local Revenue office and told do not worry and yes easier said than done on most things but got my figures written down just in case.

 

[jwest10]

25 minutes ago, jwest10 said:

This information is correct as per chat GPT and even more importantly the Revenue Department locally and the personal  allowance could rise a little.
Yes the State Pension is my only assessible income and is way down on the 500K personal allowances including the 150K income tax allowance.
And been told several times and also I know someone who works in my local Revenue office and told do not worry and yes easier said than done on most things but got my figures written down just in case.

 

 

[samtam]

2 hours ago, jwest10 said:

Subject: Thailand Tax Summary

Hi,

Here’s a summary of my Thailand tax situation:

• Personal Allowance: 500,000 THB per year.
• Income Sent to Thailand: Below this amount.
• Employment Income: None (in Thailand or elsewhere).
• UK Pensions: Already taxed in the UK, so not taxable in Thailand.
• Savings: Exempt from Thai tax.
• Thai Revenue Department: Confirmed that I do not need to file a tax return.
• 220,000 THB Rule: Applies to Thai employment income, not foreign income.

✅ No tax owed, no need to file a return.

Keeping this for reference in case anything changes in the future.

 

Income Sent to Thailand: Below this amount.

 

Define "Sent to Thailand".

 

Actually, rather than ChatGPT, get TRD to define it.

It doesn't, and therein lies the problem of TRD and AI.

[anrcaccount]

On 2/24/2025 at 2:52 PM, samtam said:

s income from pension and dividends paid offshore, and some of which is used in Thailand only by foreign ATM card, or foreign debit card.

 

Does anyone else do this

 

 

As I stated on the other thread, no one else does this.

 

Yet, you seem determined to be the first person to try and declare foreign ATM card and debit card transactions as income for thai tax.

 

Let us know how you go - but again, as I said on the other thread, on the balance of risk - doing nothing is much wiser. 

[samtam]

7 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

 

 

As I stated on the other thread, no one else does this.

 

Yet, you seem determined to be the first person to try and declare foreign ATM card and debit card transactions as income for thai tax.

 

Let us know how you go - but again, as I said on the other thread, on the balance of risk - doing nothing is much wiser. 

 

Got it!

 

As a matter of curiosity, what is the basis of your vehement argument to ignore TRD guidelines? Is it just the TIT lack of clarity BS that permeates, or something more substantive? I only ask candidly, because the efficacy of toeing the TRD Guidelines is rather diluted.

 

 

[offset]

2 hours ago, jwest10 said:

Subject: Thailand Tax Summary

Hi,

Here’s a summary of my Thailand tax situation:

• Personal Allowance: 500,000 THB per year.
• Income Sent to Thailand: Below this amount.
• Employment Income: None (in Thailand or elsewhere).
• UK Pensions: Already taxed in the UK, so not taxable in Thailand.
• Savings: Exempt from Thai tax.
• Thai Revenue Department: Confirmed that I do not need to file a tax return.
• 220,000 THB Rule: Applies to Thai employment income, not foreign income.

✅ No tax owed, no need to file a return.

Keeping this for reference in case anything changes in the future.

Just an question did you tell them that your tax free allowance in the UK (which as not been taxed) is more that your Thai allowance 

[treetops]

16 hours ago, jwest10 said:

I have been around my local office and get about the 220K but they stated that as my personal allowances are much higher than my income I do not have to file.
Plus the fact I have a Thai friend who has a partner who works in the office stating the same.

 

Really?  You've never mentioned it before!