3 hours ago, motdaeng said:

my home bank's did require my thailand TIN as well ...

Many people have this problem, but most local TRD would still not issue a TIN unless you need it to file your tax return in Thailand.

 

3 hours ago, JohnnyBD said:

This form is not required for expat Retirees, but I bet some will start posting that it is, now that they have seen it. There's plenty of false information being posted on these tax threads.

 

Unfortunately, the Tax Clearance Certificate already exists but hopefully we will never have to use it.
More to read about it at TRD official website: https://www.rd.go.th/english/23518.html

21 hours ago, mistral53 said:

Here is an interesting tax case: 

 

Lets say I want to buy a house for THB 20 mil, I need in fact close to THB 27 mil to cover the taxation on the money I bring onto Thailand.........

 

On the other hand, if I want to buy said house for THB 20 mil, but stay under the threshold of 180 days in Thailand, no taxes are due. Problem solved? For THB 7 million I can comfortably travel around the world for 6 months - and spend the money on myself, blow and girls, instead of getting it siphoned off into the abyss of taxation.

 

Other creative solutions?

 

Don't buy the house! 

The Thai government wants to attract more foreigners to Thailand by imposing taxes on us. Brilliant idea! 😂😂😂

22 hours ago, topt said:

What are you saying is the declarable amount In total when added to the rest of whatever you are filing? 

I will be declaring the exact amount of money I have remitted to Thailand.  No point lying about that figure, the Thai banks report it anyway. 

 

The owner of my condo is a foreigner, so I pay from my home county into his home country, and bypass Thailand completely, so that saves on some remittance tax. 

 

22 hours ago, topt said:

You have been quite vocal about filing irrespective of whether it is believed necessary so unless those amounts were small surely they should be included or are you now agreeing that if not assessable (perhaps savings prior to 2024) then they can safely be "ignored"......

My remittances are still over the threshold.  They are all assessable.

 

I will be filing, declaring, and paying, yet I have been minimizing my tax liability.  

 

I will be paying some tax, but the main thing is I get the magic piece of paper that gives me the all clear here to carry on as normal.  

 

For those who do nothing, relying on pre 2024, pensions, DTA's, gifting, TiT etc etc etc etc, well, good luck to you, but in my opinion, I am sure the Thai's have something waiting for you in the future.   

22 hours ago, JJ-Thailand said:

Last time I was on a job in Panama I was not allowed to leave the country without a tax clearance certificate issued by the revenue department in Panama City, it stated that I had fulfilled my tax obligations to the country. I just checked if Thailand has something similar and they have but it is not used for people in our situation, yet. 

I believe Thailand used to have such a system.  I guess they could bring it back. 

 

Just like they can''t have over stayers leave Thailand without paying their fine, they can't have people leaving Thailand without paying their tax. 

 

I did say some time ago I would not be surprised to see a TRD desk next to the overstay desk at airports. 

10 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

Just like they can''t have over stayers leave Thailand without paying their fine, they can't have people leaving Thailand without paying their tax.

This could only happen for people having been tax audited and penalized, their passport flagged until fines are paid. Individual tax audits are nowhere to be seen.

On 3/7/2025 at 8:21 AM, Autocan said:

To my mind safest is to sit on one's hands till the dust settles. I'll be happy to pay a few k b. in late penalty to wait to make sure that I understand all the regulations (as laid out in English) and file the right forms the right way. A bad filing (e.g., oversharing or undersharing) could ripple down the years.

 

Incidentally, a big clue it's all up in the air is that there are no little-people services like Thaivisa advertising as yet to do expat taxes. You can bet that once rules are clear, like they are now with Imm services, there will be tax-filing services cropping up like weed.

 

agree, it's a sensible approach and, as you would back home, keep all tax relevant documentation to hand so when/if they request it you can provide it accurately and promptly.

2 hours ago, Yumthai said:

Individual tax audits are nowhere to be seen.

We know that Imm and TRD are sharing data, anybody that has been in Thailand for 180 days or more might be audited.
 

On 3/7/2025 at 2:18 PM, Ralf001 said:

I thought they are old tax laws finally being implemented.

Correct, the tax code hasn't changed, only the definition. 

14 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

I believe Thailand used to have such a system.  I guess they could bring it back. 

 

Just like they can''t have over stayers leave Thailand without paying their fine, they can't have people leaving Thailand without paying their tax. 

 

I did say some time ago I would not be surprised to see a TRD desk next to the overstay desk at airports. 

The system you are referring to was most probably for foreigners who were employed in Thailand, and NOT for retired expats. Many countries have a similar system where the employer gets an exit visa and tax clearance certificate for the employee when their employment ends.

 

As to your conjecture about IM stopping foreigners from leaving the country unless they have a tax clearance certificate or TRD setting up a desk at the airport, I will speculate just the opposite of you, that it will never happen.

 

We just have to wait and see who's right.

Not everybody understands that to file or not to file has nothing to do with if you need to pay tax or not.

1. Most foreigners will have to file their tax return in Thailand if they send over an assessable income above 60,000 or 120,000 Baht.
2. Most foreigners won't need to pay a penny in taxes due to a double tax agreement or due to the full use of allowances and deductions, but they still need to file.

 

13 minutes ago, JohnnyBD said:

The system you are referring to was most probably for foreigners who were employed in Thailand, and NOT for retired expats. Many countries have a similar system where the employer gets an exit visa and tax clearance certificate for the employee when their employment ends.

 

As to your conjecture about IM stopping every foreigner from leaving the country unless they have a tax clearance certificate or TRD setting up a desk at the airport, I will speculate just the opposite of you, that it will never happen.

Official information from TRD on tax clearance certificate:

Who is required to acquire a Tax Clearance Certificate?

Section 4 quarter of the Revenue Code stipulates that a foreigner departing shall apply for a Tax Clearance Certificate in the form prescribed by the Director-General within 15 days before leaving the country, whether or not there is any tax payable. A foreigner departing Thailand is required to file an application for Tax Clearance Certificate (Form P.1) and supporting documents if:

He is liable to payment of tax or tax arrears before departing Thailand
He has duty to file a tax return and pay tax on behalf of a company or juristic partnership incorporated under foreign laws and has been carrying on business in Thailand
He has taxable income, whether or not in Thailand, from being a public performer in Thailand.

The word "public performer" means a drama, movie film, radio and television performer, singer, musician, professional sportsperson or performer for any kind of entertainment.

Penalty
A foreigner departing or attempting to depart Thailand without a Tax Clearance Certificate shall pay a surcharge at the rate of 20% of the tax amount.  In addition he shall be subject to a fine not exceeding 1,000 Baht or an imprisonment not more than 1 month, or both.

Read more here: https://www.rd.go.th/english/23518.html

 

27 minutes ago, JohnnyBD said:

The system you are referring to was most probably for foreigners who were employed in Thailand, and NOT for retired expats. Many countries have a similar system where the employer gets an exit visa and tax clearance certificate for the employee when their employment ends.

 

As to your conjecture about IM stopping foreigners from leaving the country unless they have a tax clearance certificate or TRD setting up a desk at the airport, I will speculate just the opposite of you, that it will never happen.

 

We just have to wait and see who's right.

 

maybe you're right, maybe not...

 

but as we all can agree, global banking and tax systems are becoming stricter, making it harder to evade taxes to get away without paying taxes at  all.

 

if thailand gets serious about collecting taxes from foreign tax residents, the first step could be, when someone renews their annual permit,

they'll need a tax clearance document. something like that is more  likely to happen in the future ....

4 minutes ago, JJ-Thailand said:

Official information from TRD on tax clearance certificate:

Who is required to acquire a Tax Clearance Certificate?

Section 4 quarter of the Revenue Code stipulates that a foreigner departing shall apply for a Tax Clearance Certificate in the form prescribed by the Director-General within 15 days before leaving the country, whether or not there is any tax payable. A foreigner departing Thailand is required to file an application for Tax Clearance Certificate (Form P.1) and supporting documents if:

He is liable to payment of tax or tax arrears before departing Thailand
He has duty to file a tax return and pay tax on behalf of a company or juristic partnership incorporated under foreign laws and has been carrying on business in Thailand
He has taxable income, whether or not in Thailand, from being a public performer in Thailand.

The word "public performer" means a drama, movie film, radio and television performer, singer, musician, professional sportsperson or performer for any kind of entertainment.

Penalty
A foreigner departing or attempting to depart Thailand without a Tax Clearance Certificate shall pay a surcharge at the rate of 20% of the tax amount.  In addition he shall be subject to a fine not exceeding 1,000 Baht or an imprisonment not more than 1 month, or both.

Read more here: https://www.rd.go.th/english/23518.html

 

So, not all foreigners are required to get a tax certificate. Only those who have a tax liability or income generated from work in Thailand. Is that correct?

14 minutes ago, JohnnyBD said:

So, not all foreigners are required to get a tax certificate. Only those who have a tax liability or income generated from work in Thailand. Is that correct?

That's what it looks like at the moment, latest update was 23 Nov. 2020.
Unfortunately, it could change overnight, who knows what they will come up with next.

 

39 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

if thailand gets serious about collecting taxes from foreign tax residents, the first step could be, when someone renews their annual permit,

they'll need a tax clearance document. something like that is more  likely to happen in the future ....

I agree the annual renewal would be the most likely time to ensure a foreigner is paying any income taxes due, and not by checkng every foreigner leaving the country, some who may not be required to file and who owe no taxes.

On 3/8/2025 at 3:32 PM, lamyai3 said:

I wonder what will happen in practice - there was a recent poll saying that 58% of expats intend not to file at the present time.

58% sounds high to me. I guess many will change their mind and file when we get closer to the deadline. Who in his right mind wants to have potential future problems with TRD or Imm?

On the other hand, many foreigners not filing will send a message to the Thai government that taxing foreigners is not a good idea.

 

27 minutes ago, JJ-Thailand said:

On 3/8/2025 at 3:32 PM, lamyai3 said:

I wonder what will happen in practice - there was a recent poll saying that 58% of expats intend not to file at the present time.

58% sounds high to me. I guess many will change their mind and file when we get closer to the deadline. Who in his right mind wants to have potential future problems with TRD or Imm?

58% sounds low to me. The small sample surveyed by the Thai Examiner is certainly not representative of the foreigners diversity residing in Thailand.

15 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

I will be declaring the exact amount of money I have remitted to Thailand.  No point lying about that figure, the Thai banks report it anyway. 

 

The owner of my condo is a foreigner, so I pay from my home county into his home country, and bypass Thailand completely, so that saves on some remittance tax. 

 

My remittances are still over the threshold.  They are all assessable.

 

I will be filing, declaring, and paying, yet I have been minimizing my tax liability.  

 

I will be paying some tax, but the main thing is I get the magic piece of paper that gives me the all clear here to carry on as normal.  

 

For those who do nothing, relying on pre 2024, pensions, DTA's, gifting, TiT etc etc etc etc, well, good luck to you, but in my opinion, I am sure the Thai's have something waiting for

you in the future.   

 

I am sure the Thai's have something waiting for you in the future.   

 

 

Yes I look forward to the Thais rolling out the red carpet for me because I am a retired expat living in Thailand....

 

No magic paper needed for those who do not need to file...But loads of papers needed for those who file....

 

And besides its guys like me who are holding up the entire Thai economy with my nightly Chang beer purchases.......Thats  why they will be rolling out the Red carpet for me... Trust me they will do nothing to upset this cash cow...

 

5 hours ago, it is what it is said:

 

agree, it's a sensible approach and, as you would back home, keep all tax relevant documentation to hand so when/if they request it you can provide it accurately and promptly.

What will they accept of prove the amount of tax that you have paid in the UK

On 3/7/2025 at 2:15 PM, koolkarl said:

Just wait for the next shoe to drop, implementation of the CRS agreements.  For many years in Canada, if you were a tax resident there, you

had to report your world income to Taxania's tax department whether it was brought into Canada or not.

 

The Canadian requirement to report global income is not a CRS requirement.  Canada required such LONG BEFORE Canada joined CRS.

 

That statement is just a misinformed assumption.  Sorry.

20 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

For those who do nothing, relying on pre 2024, pensions, DTA's, gifting, TiT etc etc etc etc, well, good luck to you, but in my opinion, I am sure the Thai's have something waiting for you in the future.   

 

Yes - for those with the appropriate Visa, or with a DTA that clearly excludes Thai taxation of the foreign income, then an easy Visa extension with no issues will be waiting.  No issues what so ever.

6 hours ago, JohnnyBD said:

So, not all foreigners are required to get a tax certificate. Only those who have a tax liability or income generated from work in Thailand. Is that correct?

 

There is no requirement to get a tax certificate at present time.  The Tax Certificate on the Thai RD has not been a nominal requirement for years for the average expat pensioner.

40 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

Yes - for those with the appropriate Visa, or with a DTA that clearly excludes Thai taxation of the foreign income, then an easy Visa extension with no issues will be waiting.  No issues what so ever.

Keep telling yourself that long enough, and you will believe it.

5 hours ago, redwood1 said:

Trust me they will do nothing to upset this cash cow...

 

You forgot the part about the Thai's wanting more cash out of the cow.  

7 hours ago, JohnnyBD said:

he system you are referring to was most probably for foreigners who were employed in Thailand, and NOT for retired expats. Many countries have a similar system where the employer gets an exit visa and tax clearance certificate for the employee when their employment ends.

Anyone who stays more than 180 days in Thailand in a calendar years is a resident of Thailand for tax purposes, employed, or not. 

 

7 hours ago, JohnnyBD said:

As to your conjecture about IM stopping foreigners from leaving the country unless they have a tax clearance certificate or TRD setting up a desk at the airport, I will speculate just the opposite of you, that it will never happen.

 

Which is your right.

 

I never said IT WILL HAPPEN.  I have said I would not be surprised to see it in the future, and I believe such a system used to exist, so it could come back. 

 

7 hours ago, JohnnyBD said:

We just have to wait and see who's right.

For me, it's not about who's right or wrong.  It's about planning for all scenarios. 

 

This Is Thailand.  You could be right today, and wrong about the same thing tomorrow, because the Thai's have back flipped. 

 

I'm not on this forum to claim I am right and others are wrong. 

 

I am on this forum to discuss best and worse case scenarios, and options, options, options.   

10 hours ago, Yumthai said:

This could only happen for people having been tax audited and penalized, their passport flagged until fines are paid. Individual tax audits are nowhere to be seen.

Link please.

 

Have you forgotten where you are? 

1 hour ago, oldcpu said:

There is no requirement to get a tax certificate at present time. 

 

Correct, not yet.

Why cannot people who post with legitimate questions not get accurate answers?

Instead all we are responses with totally misleading conjecture?

We all have our own imaginations and do not need the tax man ghost forced upon us.