So now they are terrorists.

[Photoguy21]

3 hours ago, billd766 said:

One easy to know if they were terrorists or not would be to collate the results of the trials. That will be difficult to prove, as they never went to trial in the first place. 

Many of the MS13 gang have gone on trial

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, jas007 said:

I just noticed.  You're from Britain? 

 

Check your Magna Carta.  The right was granted there, for sure, and has evolved over time.  In America, we now have procedural due process and substantive due process.  It's not all etched in stone. 

There's never been due process in the UK, the authorities do whatever they want, then hope you aren't rech or influential enough to do anything about it.

Unless you're a non white in which case they might be more careful, or they might empty a gun into your head while waiting for the subway.

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, Smokin Joe said:

 

While Boasberg was a FISC judge he authorized the Dems to use federal agents to do surveillance on the Trump campaign in order to assist Hillary. 

 

This info has been conveniently left out of his Wiki page.

 

https://time.com/7269502/who-is-judge-james-boasberg-trump-wants-him-impeached/

From the article:

"Boasberg presided over dozens of cases against defendants charged with storming the U.S. Capitol after Trump lost the 2020 presidential election, often issuing sentences significantly more lenient than what prosecutors recommended and displaying a measured and patient approach...

Later, as the surveillance court's presiding judge, Boasberg chided the Justice Department for having “breached its duty of candor to the Court with respect to those applications” and said the frequency and gravity of the errors during the Russia investigation had “called into question the reliability of the information proffered in other FBI applications.”

In response to the errors, he mandated that the Justice Department provide him with information about its efforts to implement reforms meant to improve the accuracy of warrant applications submitted to the surveillance court."

[Smokin Joe]

14 minutes ago, placeholder said:

From the article:

"Boasberg presided over dozens of cases against defendants charged with storming the U.S. Capitol after Trump lost the 2020 presidential election, often issuing sentences significantly more lenient than what prosecutors recommended and displaying a measured and patient approach...

Later, as the surveillance court's presiding judge, Boasberg chided the Justice Department for having “breached its duty of candor to the Court with respect to those applications” and said the frequency and gravity of the errors during the Russia investigation had “called into question the reliability of the information proffered in other FBI applications.”

In response to the errors, he mandated that the Justice Department provide him with information about its efforts to implement reforms meant to improve the accuracy of warrant applications submitted to the surveillance court."

 

That was all long after his FISC court ruling when he authorized the Dems to use federal agents to do surveillance on the Trump campaign.

[pedro01]

8 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

The  underlying issue is that people who are innocent of criminal activity are being arrested and sent to a foreign prison without due process. There are people who reportedly had  tatoos of a humminbird or Real Madrid that were mistaken for gang tatoos who were sent to foreign prisons.

 

They are all criminals.

 

They committed a criminal offense by stepping into the US without permission.

[Mike_Hunt]

8 hours ago, placeholder said:

I guess since America is composed mostly of the descendants of wave after wave of immigrants,  that would mean that immigration in the United States hasn't worked out well for almost everybody. Is that what you're getting at?

The current levels of mass immigration are not sustainable. 

[Cryingdick]

8 hours ago, placeholder said:

I guess since America is composed mostly of the descendants of wave after wave of immigrants,  that would mean that immigration in the United States hasn't worked out well for almost everybody. Is that what you're getting at?

I am saying the waves benefit but the people before them not so much.

[billd766]

5 hours ago, Photoguy21 said:

Many of the MS13 gang have gone on trial

But how many were on trial and for for what?

 

Being an illegal immigrant?

 

Being a gangster?

 

Being a terrorist?

[Patong2021]

3 hours ago, pedro01 said:

 

They are all criminals.

 

They committed a criminal offense by stepping into the US without permission.

 

You really  haven't a clue. Please educate us and cite the law that  says that. 

 

Under federal immigration law, unlawful presence in the USA is a civil offense. The civil penalty for being in  the USA  is deportation, or removal, which the U.S. Supreme Court has held is not “criminal punishment.” Source: CT Gov website.  

https://portal.ct.gov/-/media/ocpd/child_protection/training/day3/immigrationcheatsheetbysnhforgalamcclasspdf.pdf

 

Given the choice of taking legal counsel from legal experts or the  opinion of an uneducated person, I will listen to the legal experts.

 

And even if the people  are legally subject to deportation, sending them to a foreign prison without due process, without a legal hearing is a wrongful act. These deportees  will be held without trial in a prison  known for its human rights abuses and  high rate of physical harm to inmates.

 

The issue is not the deportation of people who should be deported. Rather, it is the intentional violation of their basic human rights. They are being incarcerated for indefinite periods without any trial or access to legal rights. If they were convicted of a crime in the jurisdiction where they are to be detained, fine, but they were not.

 

[placeholder]

12 hours ago, Smokin Joe said:

 

While Boasberg was a FISC judge he authorized the Dems to use federal agents to do surveillance on the Trump campaign in order to assist Hillary. 

 

This info has been conveniently left out of his Wiki page.

 

https://time.com/7269502/who-is-judge-james-boasberg-trump-wants-him-impeached/

'in order to assist Hillary"

Is that what he wrote? You have a quote from him somewhere to prove that?

 

[placeholder]

On 3/20/2025 at 12:05 PM, Photoguy21 said:

Do you know better and are sure they are not terrorists? If not maybe your comment is out of place. The South American gangs are a form of terrorism

Being a violent criminal doesn't make one a terrorist. Terrorism is about accomplishing some social or political goal by spreading terror via violence. In fact the Trump administration claimed that tren de agua was working in concert with a government of Venezuela. The evidence is thin. This reminds me of the time the Bush administration claimed that the 9/11 terrorists were working in concert with Saddam Hussein. In order to justify the war on Iraq.

 

[Yagoda]

8 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

You really  haven't a clue. Please educate us and cite the law that  says that. 

You really havent a clue and you were lying so here is your education. 8 USC 1325.

 

You blatantly lied to this entire Forum about a statue you could have read yourself

[jas007]

15 hours ago, BritManToo said:

There's never been due process in the UK, the authorities do whatever they want, then hope you aren't rech or influential enough to do anything about it.

Unless you're a non white in which case they might be more careful, or they might empty a gun into your head while waiting for the subway.

Better watch what you post, or they might come looking for you.  What would you be, a terrorist? 

[LosLobo]

12 hours ago, pedro01 said:

They are all criminals.

 

They committed a criminal offense by stepping into the US without permission.

Facts don't seem to be your friend!

Pro Soccer Player Claims He Was Wrongly Deported Over Real Madrid Tattoo

'A soccer player who entered the U.S. legally was deported to an El Salvador prison last week in part because of a tattoo inspired by his favorite team'.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/pro-soccer-player-claims-wrongly-195443740.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAFak7u-EAd8fkNY9N0bSoFf7V1dbLbmri8HG4qAoNEmJZIJghSy_ox3j8n2rdH_EcQQ0ZqwwPHp-WYlmS_yMe1m1RUBgK4KMYnDSeTBaJT1rLeu1wHl3_E7UnOkYuYrKlpvERlPjQ0POFWymD7vcwk0_HdyBJJg-7F9bQL5GKT8W

[Patong2021]

3 hours ago, Yagoda said:

You really havent a clue and you were lying so here is your education. 8 USC 1325.

 

You blatantly lied to this entire Forum about a statue you could have read yourself

 

Did you read the law that you reference?  You call me a liar. OK. show me where I lied.

You are not educating anyone, Rather you are demonstrating how ignorant you are, by your failure at reading comprehension.  The application of this law  has been addressed by the courts including the SCOTUS who have ruled that  unauthorized immigrants are not in themselves criminals. You are no different than the buffoons who claim  they are sovereign citizens with their intentional misinterpretation of the US Constitution.

 

The act of being present in the United States in violation of the immigration laws is not, standing alone, a crime. While federal immigration law does criminalize some actions that may be related to undocumented presence in the United States, undocumented presence alone is not a violation of federal criminal law. Entering the United States without being inspected and admitted, i.e., illegal entry, is a misdemeanor or can be a felony, depending on the circumstances. 8 U.S.C. § 1325. But many undocumented immigrants do not enter the United States illegally. They enter legally but overstay, work without authorization, drop out of school or violate the conditions of their visas in some other way. Current estimates are that approximately 45% of undocumented immigrants did not enter illegally. Source: Pew Hispanic Center, Modes of Entry for the Unauthorized Migrant Population [May 22, 2006].

 

Undocumented presence in the United States is only criminally punishable if it occurs after an individual was previously formally removed from the United States and then returned without permission. 8 U.S.C. § 1326 (any individual previously “deported or removed” who “enters, attempts to enter, or is at any time found in” the United States without authorization may be punished by imprisonment up to two years). Mere undocumented presence in the United States alone, however, in the absence of a previous removal order and unauthorized reentry, is not a crime under federal law.

 

 “Criminal alien” is not a legal term and undocumented immigrants are not “criminal aliens” under federal law. The term “criminal alien” is not defined anywhere in the federal Immigration and Nationality Act (INA). To the extent it appears at all in the INA, it is used in the subject heading of several provisions that describe documented and undocumented immigrants who have been convicted of criminal offenses (after a trial or guilty plea) that are designated as “aggravated felonies” or as “crimes involving moral turpitude.” See 8 U.S.C. §§ 1226, 1228, 1252. A conviction of such a crime may subject an immigrant to removal from the United States, even if she is a lawful permanent resident. In contrast, immigrants who are undocumented but have not been convicted of any crime are not referred to as “criminal aliens” under the immigration laws.

 

The above are the documented legal opinions of qualified experienced immigration lawyers.

You vomited up an idiotic accusation, and are too arrogant and uneducated to realize that you have misinterpreted the law.

[placeholder]

18 hours ago, Photoguy21 said:

Many of the MS13 gang have gone on trial

Are they being tried for terrorism?

[Photoguy21]

14 hours ago, billd766 said:

But how many were on trial and for for what?

 

Being an illegal immigrant?

 

Being a gangster?

 

Being a terrorist?

If you enter a country without the proper documentation you are illegal and have no right to remain in that country. They were on trail for many things including murder. Look the data up on the internet.

[Photoguy21]

5 hours ago, placeholder said:

Being a violent criminal doesn't make one a terrorist. Terrorism is about accomplishing some social or political goal by spreading terror via violence. In fact the Trump administration claimed that tren de agua was working in concert with a government of Venezuela. The evidence is thin. This reminds me of the time the Bush administration claimed that the 9/11 terrorists were working in concert with Saddam Hussein. In order to justify the war on Iraq.

 

I tell you what why don't you take in an illegal in to live with you and your family assuming you don't live alone? People talk a lot but want everyone else to take the responsibility. Enter a country without the proper paperwork and you should be deported. What Bush did along with Blair in the UK does nont justify letting anyone into your country.

[billd766]

7 minutes ago, Photoguy21 said:

If you enter a country without the proper documentation you are illegal and have no right to remain in that country. They were on trail for many things including murder. Look the data up on the internet.

So you should be deported to yor country of origin, and not to a third country.

[billd766]

8 minutes ago, Photoguy21 said:

I tell you what why don't you take in an illegal in to live with you and your family assuming you don't live alone? People talk a lot but want everyone else to take the responsibility. Enter a country without the proper paperwork and you should be deported. What Bush did along with Blair in the UK does nont justify letting anyone into your country.

Nice comment.

 

Exactly how many illegal immigrants have you taken in to your home to live with your family?

[Yagoda]

7 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

 

Did you read the law that you reference?  You call me a liar. OK. show me where I lied.

You are not educating anyone, Rather you are demonstrating how ignorant you are, by your failure at reading comprehension.  The application of this law  has been addressed by the courts including the SCOTUS who have ruled that  unauthorized immigrants are not in themselves criminals. You are no different than the buffoons who claim  they are sovereign citizens with their intentional misinterpretation of the US Constitution.

 

The act of being present in the United States in violation of the immigration laws is not, standing alone, a crime. While federal immigration law does criminalize some actions that may be related to undocumented presence in the United States, undocumented presence alone is not a violation of federal criminal law. Entering the United States without being inspected and admitted, i.e., illegal entry, is a misdemeanor or can be a felony, depending on the circumstances. 8 U.S.C. § 1325. But many undocumented immigrants do not enter the United States illegally. They enter legally but overstay, work without authorization, drop out of school or violate the conditions of their visas in some other way. Current estimates are that approximately 45% of undocumented immigrants did not enter illegally. Source: Pew Hispanic Center, Modes of Entry for the Unauthorized Migrant Population [May 22, 2006].

 

Undocumented presence in the United States is only criminally punishable if it occurs after an individual was previously formally removed from the United States and then returned without permission. 8 U.S.C. § 1326 (any individual previously “deported or removed” who “enters, attempts to enter, or is at any time found in” the United States without authorization may be punished by imprisonment up to two years). Mere undocumented presence in the United States alone, however, in the absence of a previous removal order and unauthorized reentry, is not a crime under federal law.

 

 “Criminal alien” is not a legal term and undocumented immigrants are not “criminal aliens” under federal law. The term “criminal alien” is not defined anywhere in the federal Immigration and Nationality Act (INA). To the extent it appears at all in the INA, it is used in the subject heading of several provisions that describe documented and undocumented immigrants who have been convicted of criminal offenses (after a trial or guilty plea) that are designated as “aggravated felonies” or as “crimes involving moral turpitude.” See 8 U.S.C. §§ 1226, 1228, 1252. A conviction of such a crime may subject an immigrant to removal from the United States, even if she is a lawful permanent resident. In contrast, immigrants who are undocumented but have not been convicted of any crime are not referred to as “criminal aliens” under the immigration laws.

 

The above are the documented legal opinions of qualified experienced immigration lawyers.

You vomited up an idiotic accusation, and are too arrogant and uneducated to realize that you have misinterpreted the law.

In other words under the statute and alien that enters in violation of the statute on his first offense is guilty of a misdemeanor. That's a crime. So you can spend all time you want twisting the arguments of some immigration lawyers whose interest is making money, or you can read the statue. Find me a case that holds that people that enter illegally are not committing a crime under the statue. You won't

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, Yagoda said:

In other words under the statute and alien that enters in violation of the statute on his first offense is guilty of a misdemeanor. That's a crime. So you can spend all time you want twisting the arguments of some immigration lawyers whose interest is making money, or you can read the statue. Find me a case that holds that people that enter illegally are not committing a crime under the statue. You won't

Jaywalking is generally a crime too. The likelihood that some undocumented aliens are crossing streets while the light is green should terrify us all.

[Yagoda]

35 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Jaywalking is generally a crime too. The likelihood that some undocumented aliens are crossing streets while the light is green should terrify us all.

The US Code is enacted by Congress as the representatives of the people. If you wish to change the US code, lobby your congressman. Unlawful entry into the US is a CRIME, and anyone who says it isnt is totally and blatantly wrong.

[frank83628]

On 3/20/2025 at 10:26 AM, bubblegum said:

White house presser is now saying they won't disclose any info on the 200 or so illegals that were supposed to be from some gang because it was a "counter terrorist" action. So the nameless people rotting in an, for profit jail in El Salvador are now promoted to being terrorist. Can't make this <deleted> up.

Are you going to offer your place as a sanctuary home for a poor misguided ms13 gang member? 

You're American right,  Otherwise it won't work?

[Patong2021]

2 hours ago, Yagoda said:

In other words under the statute and alien that enters in violation of the statute on his first offense is guilty of a misdemeanor. That's a crime. So you can spend all time you want twisting the arguments of some immigration lawyers whose interest is making money, or you can read the statue. Find me a case that holds that people that enter illegally are not committing a crime under the statue. You won't

 

You really  are devoid of cognitive ability rendering your reading comprehension below that of a high school student. There is no law making it a crime to live in the U.S. as an undocumented immigrant. Instead, the law treats it as a civil violation. If the undocumented immigrant has lied, or misrepresented on legal forms to enter the USA, then that act may be criminal if a court so rules.    Undocumented presence alone is not a violation of federal criminal law. 

 

You can't have it both ways. The Trump administration has been relying on the  current civil laws to carry out its campaign. Federal immigration laws are principally enforced through civil proceedings administered by the Department of Homeland Security. Because these are civil proceedings, the accused immigration offenders do not have the same protections  that apply when someone is charged with a crime. 

[placeholder]

20 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

The US Code is enacted by Congress as the representatives of the people. If you wish to change the US code, lobby your congressman. Unlawful entry into the US is a CRIME, and anyone who says it isnt is totally and blatantly wrong.

Jaywalking is a CRIME. And anyone who says it isn't is totally wrong.

[Patong2021]

20 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

The US Code is enacted by Congress as the representatives of the people. If you wish to change the US code, lobby your congressman. Unlawful entry into the US is a CRIME, and anyone who says it isnt is totally and blatantly wrong.

 

The people being  deported did not necessarily  unlawfully enter the USA. Many entered on bonafide visas.

Which law and where does the law explicitly state that it is a crime. to be an undocumented  immigrant? The Supreme Court of the US has already stated that undocumented status in itself is not a crime.

[Yagoda]

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Jaywalking is a CRIME. And anyone who says it isn't is totally wrong.

Show us where Jaywalking is a crime.

 

2 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

 

The people being  deported did not necessarily  unlawfully enter the USA. Many entered on bonafide visas.

Which law and where does the law explicitly state that it is a crime. to be an undocumented  immigrant? The Supreme Court of the US has already stated that undocumented status in itself is not a crime.

Spin and thrash all you want but read the statute. You are wrong and not honest enough to admit it.

[Patong2021]

19 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

Are you going to offer your place as a sanctuary home for a poor misguided ms13 gang member? 

You're American right,  Otherwise it won't work?

Are you prepared to personally compensate anyone incarcerated who was not a violent criminal as described? ICE has been stopping Navajo Nation members and demanding that they prove their status. Some people have been detained. Aside from it being a violation of basic  civil rights, it is police state action. The citizen militias were  always accusing other administrations of trying to do this, but only Trrump is  detaining and harassing  US citizens.

[Yagoda]

7 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

 

You really  are devoid of cognitive ability rendering your reading comprehension below that of a high school student. There is no law making it a crime to live in the U.S. as an undocumented immigrant. Instead, the law treats it as a civil violation. If the undocumented immigrant has lied, or misrepresented on legal forms to enter the USA, then that act may be criminal if a court so rules.    Undocumented presence alone is not a violation of federal criminal law. 

 

You can't have it both ways. The Trump administration has been relying on the  current civil laws to carry out its campaign. Federal immigration laws are principally enforced through civil proceedings administered by the Department of Homeland Security. Because these are civil proceedings, the accused immigration offenders do not have the same protections  that apply when someone is charged with a crime. 

Read the statute, and weep.