US Social Security

[cdemundo]

2 hours ago, Dan747 said:

Here is Musk’s direct quote: “The waste and fraud in entitlement spending — which is most of the federal spending is entitlements — so, that’s, like, the big one to eliminate. That’s the, sort of half-trillion, maybe $6-700 billion a year.”

And he’s exactly right.

• FACT: The U.S. Government Accountability Office estimates taxpayers lose as much as $521 billion annually to fraud — and most of that is within entitlement programs, such as Medicare and Medicaid.
• FACT: Over the past two decades, the federal government has made an estimated $2.7 trillion in “improper payments” — the majority of which come in the form of “payments to deceased individuals or those who no longer [are] eligible for government programs.”
• FACT: The Social Security Administration made an estimated $72 billion in improper payments between 2015 and 2022.
• FACT: The Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services estimated it made $140+ billion in improper payments in 2024 alone.

What kind of a person doesn’t support eliminating waste, fraud, and abuse in government spending that ultimately costs taxpayers more?

The kind of person that doesn't trust Trump or Musk.

A realistic person.

[JimHuaHin]

Considering Trump's recent actions - and he has only been in power (this time) for about 10 weeks - if I was an American on SS I would be very worried.

[jas007]

6 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Which is why the world economy has shrunk to nothing since Fiat currency became the norm? At least, that's apparently the case in the alternate universe you seem hail from.

Currently, the US dollar is, I believe, the longest lasting fiat currency.  Historically, every single one of them has eventually reverted to its real value of zero.  The game is nothing new.  Once upon a time, the Romans started to add base metals to their coins.  They needed money to pay their soldiers to hold their empire together and that was their solution. Sound money that wasn't so sound.  Sound familiar? 

 

Anyway, chalk up the dollar's resilience to the gargantuan explosion of debt around the world.  The problem is so large that it's almost not quantifiable.  Consider gold, for example.  Some people hold the real thing. That's real money. But on paper, many parties seem to think they own that same gold.  It's been hypothecated and re-hypothecated so many times, it's hard to quantify at this point.  Derivatives of derivatives.  No one knows for sure.  How much gold is really in Ft. Knox? Gold actually owned by the USA?  Or, in vaults in NYC? 

 

Whenever the debt market freezes up, all bets are off.  

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, jas007 said:

Currently, the US dollar is, I believe, the longest lasting fiat currency.  Historically, every single one of them has eventually reverted to its real value of zero.  The game is nothing new.  Once upon a time, the Romans started to add base metals to their coins.  They needed money to pay their soldiers to hold their empire together and that was their solution. Sound money that wasn't so sound.  Sound familiar? 

 

Anyway, chalk up the dollar's resilience to the gargantuan explosion of debt around the world.  The problem is so large that it's almost not quantifiable.  Consider gold, for example.  Some people hold the real thing. That's real money. But on paper, many parties seem to think they own that same gold.  It's been hypothecated and re-hypothecated so many times, it's hard to quantify at this point.  Derivatives of derivatives.  No one knows for sure.  How much gold is really in Ft. Knox? Gold actually owned by the USA?  Or, in vaults in NYC? 

 

Whenever the debt market freezes up, all bets are off.  

The real value of the dollar is zero? So the world economy is the same size as it was back in 2013 or was only expanded to keep pace with population growth? You really want to run with that?

[cdemundo]

46 minutes ago, Mike_Hunt said:

You don't know what you are talking about.   SS can only be eliminated by an act of Congress. 

 

Right, that's what the rules say right?

 

But Trump and Musk don't necessarily follow the rules.

 

Witness Musk as the unelected, unvetted, holder of multiple conflicts of interest, who bought and paid for his position.

[jas007]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

Just before you made your post I corrected mine. It's what comes of dictating to an Android phone without checking it first. So it is a fact that despite decrease in value of the dollar what counts is how many dollars you have and what their total purchasing power is. And anybody who thinks otherwise is the truly clueless person.

Of course it's about the "value" of the dollar.  People aren't totally stupid.  But even you must admit, if you're honest, that the "value" of the dollar has decreased over time.  Nothing goes in a straight line, but that's the unmistakeable trend.  In recent memory, depending on how old people are, I'm sure there are people here who remember the America they grew up in.  The Post-WWII America and the great middle class that once was but that has now mostly disappeared, thanks to the politicians, the debt based banking system, and the Fed.  Before long, they'll own it all. That's the plan.  "You'll own nothing and you'll be happy."  Was that Klaus Schwab at the WEF? 

 

In the Post WWII US economy, A single man could graduate from high school, find a factory job in one day, and with the pay from that one job, buy a house in the suburbs, buy a car for the family, support a wife and a couple of kids, send those kids to college, and have money left over to save for retirement.  Try telling that to a kid today.  ""Work hard kid. Get a Job in a factory, save your money, and you too can live the American Dream." 

 

And yet there are problems with that scenario, no?  The factory jobs have largely disappeared. Saving money is a fools game because of inflation, and even if such a job could be found, it wouldn't pay enough to support a wife and a few kids, the kids could not afford to go to school, and, if they did get an education, they wouldn't be able to find a job when they graduated, and if they did find jobs, those jobs would pay peanuts.  

 

What happened to the value of the dollar? 

[hotsun]

26 minutes ago, jas007 said:

Currently, the US dollar is, I believe, the longest lasting fiat currency.  Historically, every single one of them has eventually reverted to its real value of zero.  The game is nothing new.  Once upon a time, the Romans started to add base metals to their coins.  They needed money to pay their soldiers to hold their empire together and that was their solution. Sound money that wasn't so sound.  Sound familiar? 

 

Anyway, chalk up the dollar's resilience to the gargantuan explosion of debt around the world.  The problem is so large that it's almost not quantifiable.  Consider gold, for example.  Some people hold the real thing. That's real money. But on paper, many parties seem to think they own that same gold.  It's been hypothecated and re-hypothecated so many times, it's hard to quantify at this point.  Derivatives of derivatives.  No one knows for sure.  How much gold is really in Ft. Knox? Gold actually owned by the USA?  Or, in vaults in NYC? 

 

Whenever the debt market freezes up, all bets are off.  

The issue is you have to trust them not to make it more worthless. Id rather not trust people when it comes to money 

[jas007]

4 minutes ago, hotsun said:

The issue is you have to trust them not to make it more worthless. Id rather not trust people when it comes to money 

Let's assume that's right.  What then?  Who do you trust?  The people who have been destroying the dollar since 1913?  The politicians who enable them? The "Democrats."  The Republicans?  

 

Some people are advocating for a return to "sound money."  That's what the constitution calls for.  Gold and silver.  Go read it. And yet somewhere along the line  that idea went by the wayside and here we are.  

 

If you'd rather not trust "people" when it comes to your money, that's reasonable.  Buy some real money with your increasingly worthless dollars.  Buy some gold coins.  Maybe buy some silver. Find a place to hide it and hope nobody steals it from you. 

[hotsun]

1 minute ago, jas007 said:

Let's assume that's right.  What then?  Who do you trust?  The people who have been destroying the dollar since 1913?  The politicians who enable them? The "Democrats."  The Republicans?  

 

Some people are advocating for a return to "sound money."  That's what the constitution calls for.  Gold and silver.  Go read it. And yet somewhere along the line  that idea went by the wayside and here we are.  

 

If you'd rather not trust "people" when it comes to your money, that's reasonable.  Buy some real money with your increasingly worthless dollars.  Buy some gold coins.  Maybe buy some silver. Find a place to hide it and hope nobody steals it from you. 

Either control your own finances or let someone else do it for you

[jas007]

5 minutes ago, hotsun said:

Either control your own finances or let someone else do it for you

So, how are you controlling yours? What's your plan, going forward?  If you have a foolproof solution, let us know. 

[hotsun]

4 minutes ago, jas007 said:

So, how are you controlling yours? What's your plan, going forward?  If you have a foolproof solution, let us know. 

This is what future generations will have to consider

[Hawaiian]

On 3/21/2025 at 3:30 PM, fredwiggy said:

Lot being said about SS and some sounds like it can be stopped, but although I dislike trump, some of what he's trying to do is actually preventing the loss of benefits. Time will tell. No one in their right minds would try and take survival money away from over 70 million Americans because it would be about the last thing they would do.

Agree.  There will blood in the streets.

[placeholder]

27 minutes ago, jas007 said:

Of course it's about the "value" of the dollar.  People aren't totally stupid.  But even you must admit, if you're honest, that the "value" of the dollar has decreased over time.  Nothing goes in a straight line, but that's the unmistakeable trend.  In recent memory, depending on how old people are, I'm sure there are people here who remember the America they grew up in.  The Post-WWII America and the great middle class that once was but that has now mostly disappeared, thanks to the politicians, the debt based banking system, and the Fed.  Before long, they'll own it all. That's the plan.  "You'll own nothing and you'll be happy."  Was that Klaus Schwab at the WEF? 

 

In the Post WWII US economy, A single man could graduate from high school, find a factory job in one day, and with the pay from that one job, buy a house in the suburbs, buy a car for the family, support a wife and a couple of kids, send those kids to college, and have money left over to save for retirement.  Try telling that to a kid today.  ""Work hard kid. Get a Job in a factory, save your money, and you too can live the American Dream." 

 

And yet there are problems with that scenario, no?  The factory jobs have largely disappeared. Saving money is a fools game because of inflation, and even if such a job could be found, it wouldn't pay enough to support a wife and a few kids, the kids could not afford to go to school, and, if they did get an education, they wouldn't be able to find a job when they graduated, and if they did find jobs, those jobs would pay peanuts.  

 

What happened to the value of the dollar? 

No it's not about the value of the dollar. It's about how many dollars you have. Actually the top 10% are doing better than they ever have before. What is the dollar decline got to do with that. What's happened in America is rising income inequality. Some of it is due to the decline of unions. People think manufacturing jobs magically mean that people are going to get higher pay. But the fact is that without unions what negotiating power to workers have? Another problem is the slashing of income tax rates which disproportionately favored the wealthy. And by rates I just don't mean earned income. I mean returns on investment and all the thousand and one tax dodges that have repeatedly come into play. A recent poll show that a big majority of Americans even Republicans would be willing to pay more in social security taxes to guarantee their payments for the future. Fox News had supposed to even a big majority of Republicans support raising taxes on the wealthy. America also has the most expensive health care in the world. And it's far from being the best. To repeat it's not about the value of the individual dollar it's about how many dollars you've got. If you're in the top 10% in America it's a great time to be an American. If not, not so much.

[jas007]

2 minutes ago, Hawaiian said:

Agree.  There will blood in the streets.

Blood in the streets?  That might happen, but it probably won't be from rioting grandmas and grandpas.  

 

Will some people lose out in the process? Sure. The fraudsters and the people who have been scamming the system for years. The people collecting checks who don't even show up to work. They'll be screaming bloody murder and they'll be torching car dealerships and they'll be trying to blame everyone but themselves. 

[riclag]

On 3/22/2025 at 8:21 AM, pchansmorn said:

Are any American Expats worried Trump will stop there retirement income?  He’s headed for that next step.  He will destroy the SS system and Americans won’t have money to live on anymore.  We have our savings but it won’t last forever.  A reverse mortgage may be in our future.

I gave a sad emoji!

You come with no sources to the Soapbox.

You come with no sources and drop a serious allegation ! 
Rule of thumb:“Stay on topic and back up any claims with credible sources”. 

 

 

 

 

[Presnock]

On 3/22/2025 at 8:30 AM, fredwiggy said:

Lot being said about SS and some sounds like it can be stopped, but although I dislike trump, some of what he's trying to do is actually preventing the loss of benefits. Time will tell. No one in their right minds would try and take survival money away from over 70 million Americans because it would be about the last thing they would do.

Gotta love the Commerce Secretary - he stated that they should cut out the monthly payment - his mother-in-law would not call to complain about a missed check and say " oh well won't worry about it until next month for the check" Then he said that the loudest to complain is always the one committing fraud!  just go and arrest that guy and check him out!  Yeah all these rich guys could not care less about the poor missing a check as they think it shows that that person is just not a producer! but a taker only!  He forgets, the SS recipients paid into that fund for their retirement!  now Trump/Musk want to destroy SS altogether.  Time for the poor to get rid of the rich for sure.

[riclag]

On 3/22/2025 at 8:54 AM, jas007 said:

No.  Trump has said repeatedly that he won't cut Social Security, He has even advocated for no tax on Social Security benefits.  That said, the Fed has been destroying the value of the dollar since 1913, and Trump is on a path to spend tons of money and has no debt ceiling to contend with for a while, so there's always the danger that the dollar will collapse entirely.  At that point, you may still be receiving your benefits, but what will you do with your monthly check? Buy a cup of coffee? 

 

It probably won't come to that anytime soon, though.  Still, he dollar decline is inevitable, so it would be smart to start investing in assets that will generate an income, regardless of the dollar's value, either through dividends or capital gains.  And it wouldn't hurt to have some gold and silver and maybe some crypto. 

Thank you it was a brilliant response!

I ‘m happy your response came after the op’s opinion . After reading your response many 

innocent Unsuspecting expats would see its just another leftist opinion!

[Hawaiian]

2 minutes ago, jas007 said:

Blood in the streets?  That might happen, but it probably won't be from rioting grandmas and grandpas.  

 

Will some people lose out in the process? Sure. The fraudsters and the people who have been scamming the system for years. The people collecting checks who don't even show up to work. They'll be screaming bloody murder and they'll be torching car dealerships and they'll be trying to blame everyone but themselves. 

What happens when the grandmas and grandpas can't pay their bills and turn to their children and grandchildren for survival?  There are more guns in America than people and they are not all owned  by young people.

[fredwiggy]

6 minutes ago, Presnock said:

Gotta love the Commerce Secretary - he stated that they should cut out the monthly payment - his mother-in-law would not call to complain about a missed check and say " oh well won't worry about it until next month for the check" Then he said that the loudest to complain is always the one committing fraud!  just go and arrest that guy and check him out!  Yeah all these rich guys could not care less about the poor missing a check as they think it shows that that person is just not a producer! but a taker only!  He forgets, the SS recipients paid into that fund for their retirement!  now Trump/Musk want to destroy SS altogether.  Time for the poor to get rid of the rich for sure.

If they actually stopped those 70 million receiving money to keep them afloat, they would be taken care of properly, and immediately.

[Hawaiian]

6 minutes ago, Presnock said:

Gotta love the Commerce Secretary - he stated that they should cut out the monthly payment - his mother-in-law would not call to complain about a missed check and say " oh well won't worry about it until next month for the check" Then he said that the loudest to complain is always the one committing fraud!  just go and arrest that guy and check him out!  Yeah all these rich guys could not care less about the poor missing a check as they think it shows that that person is just not a producer! but a taker only!  He forgets, the SS recipients paid into that fund for their retirement!  now Trump/Musk want to destroy SS altogether.  Time for the poor to get rid of the rich for sure.

Where do you think much of the money comes from for the rich to be rich? 

[jas007]

7 minutes ago, placeholder said:

No it's not about the value of the dollar. It's about how many dollars you have. Actually the top 10% are doing better than they ever have before. What is the dollar decline got to do with that. What's happened in America is rising income inequality. Some of it is due to the decline of unions. People think manufacturing jobs magically mean that people are going to get higher pay. But the fact is that without unions what negotiating power to workers have? Another problem is the slashing of income tax rates which disproportionately favored the wealthy. And by rates I just don't mean earned income. I mean returns on investment and all the thousand and one tax dodges that have repeatedly come into play. A recent poll show that a big majority of Americans even Republicans would be willing to pay more in social security taxes to guarantee their payments for the future. Fox News had supposed to even a big majority of Republicans support raising taxes on the wealthy. America also has the most expensive health care in the world. And it's far from being the best. To repeat it's not about the value of the individual dollar it's about how many dollars you've got. If you're in the top 10% in America it's a great time to be an American. If not, not so much.

 In other words, you can't win this argument.  Not in a million years.   The value of the dollar is, for the most part,  vanishing as I type his.  And to the extent that, for some purposes, the value of the dollar has increased, there's a good explanation.  

 

Some factors are deflationary.  Computerization, for example.  The invention of the silicon chip was hugely deflationary.  For example, offices full of accountants keeping track of budget expenditures have been replaced by a computer somewhere, and all those people previously employed doing so had to look for other work.  The AI revolution that's under way now will be deflationary.  Millions will be put out of work by AI agents, self driving cars and taxis, robots.  It's all coming and it can't be stopped.

 

Other expenditures couldn't be shipped overseas and perhaps can't be performed by robots in the future.  Education, health care, etc.  Costs for these are through the roof, no? 

[hotsun]

6 minutes ago, jas007 said:

 In other words, you can't win this argument.  Not in a million years.   The value of the dollar is, for the most part,  vanishing as I type his.  And to the extent that, for some purposes, the value of the dollar has increased, there's a good explanation.  

 

Some factors are deflationary.  Computerization, for example.  The invention of the silicon chip was hugely deflationary.  For example, offices full of accountants keeping track of budget expenditures have been replaced by a computer somewhere, and all those people previously employed doing so had to look for other work.  The AI revolution that's under way now will be deflationary.  Millions will be put out of work by AI agents, self driving cars and taxis, robots.  It's all coming and it can't be stopped.

 

Other expenditures couldn't be shipped overseas and perhaps can't be performed by robots in the future.  Education, health care, etc.  Costs for these are through the roof, no? 

Bitcoin will seem so obvious in retrospect. The world is simply unaware that they need it

[jas007]

6 minutes ago, hotsun said:

Bitcoin will seem so obvious in retrospect. The world is simply unaware that they need it

I have some of that and some other cryptos I've had since 2017.  I still don't trust it, though.  

 

Where did it come from? Did they ever figure out who created it?  One time, Jaime Dimon (CEO of Chase) stated that anyone who thinks the creator didn't leave a back door somewhere is crazy.  Maybe it's a government program designed to introduce the world to an alternate source of money? Money they control?  

 

Personally, I don't really trust the government with anything.  I don't have much choice, though, so I do the best I can. 

[hotsun]

Just now, jas007 said:

I have some of that and some other cryptos I've had since 2017.  I still don't trust it, though.  

 

Where did it come from? Did they ever figure out who created it?  One time, Jaime Dimon (CEO of Chase) stated that anyone who thinks the creator didn't leave a back door somewhere is crazy.  Maybe it's a government program designed to introduce the world to an alternate source of money? Money they control?  

 

Personally, I don't really trust the government with anything.  I don't have much choice, though, so I do the best I can. 

Every time dimon trashes it i buy more. Bankers are the worst people on the planet

[Autocan]

Trump won't touch SS. In fact, he may reduce the tax on SS. Because it's a 70,000,000 voting bloc and Republicans obviously have plans for 28 (heck, according to the Cuomo-Bannon interview Trump may be in the running himself).

 

As for SS staff cuts hurting services keep in mind Musk fired 80% of Twitter/X personnel and it's operating just fine. And that was a private firm. Imagine the bloat at a government org.

[placeholder]

20 minutes ago, jas007 said:

 In other words, you can't win this argument.  Not in a million years.   The value of the dollar is, for the most part,  vanishing as I type his.  And to the extent that, for some purposes, the value of the dollar has increased, there's a good explanation.  

 

Some factors are deflationary.  Computerization, for example.  The invention of the silicon chip was hugely deflationary.  For example, offices full of accountants keeping track of budget expenditures have been replaced by a computer somewhere, and all those people previously employed doing so had to look for other work.  The AI revolution that's under way now will be deflationary.  Millions will be put out of work by AI agents, self driving cars and taxis, robots.  It's all coming and it can't be stopped.

 

Other expenditures couldn't be shipped overseas and perhaps can't be performed by robots in the future.  Education, health care, etc.  Costs for these are through the roof, no? 

Yes the costs are through the roof in some areas of the economy. But why is that the fault of the dollar. Prices rise for all kinds of reasons. The recent battle of inflation was pretty much worldwide. It wasn't just about the dollar. But there was one big exception: China. Where there's actually deflation. Do you think the Chinese economy is in good shape? It has some bright spots but overall not. Once again it's purchasing power that counts. The dollar has been inflating for a century at least. During that time Americans reached an unprecedented level of prosperity. How do you reconcile that with inflation? High inflation is a symptom or consequence, not a cause.

[Presnock]

25 minutes ago, Hawaiian said:

Where do you think much of the money comes from for the rich to be rich? 

As a US civil servent (retired) I have noted how rich our Congress folks get and noted that they couldn't even floor a bill outlawing insider trading.  Pelosi's husband's company became super rich with many govt contracts.  It is IMHO time to replace them all and hope some honest folks come in.  With unlimited terms (lifetime for many they easily see ways to profit IMHO and have done so.  A move is under way to get eough states to propose an amendment to the constitution to limit the number of years for congressfolks.  Getting close now.

[jas007]

1 minute ago, Autocan said:

Trump won't touch SS. In fact, he may reduce the tax on SS. Because it's a 70,000,000 voting bloc and Republicans obviously have plans for 28 (heck, according to the Cuomo-Bannon interview Trump may be in the running himself).

 

As for SS staff cuts hurting services keep in mind Musk fired 80% of Twitter/X personnel and it's operating just fine. And that was a private firm. Imagine the bloat at a government org.

Anyone who has ever worked for the government will tell you, if they're being honest, that most of the work is done by about 20% of the people.  30% more sort of work, and the other 50% could be gone tomorrow and no one would ever notice the difference. The question is: how to identify the people that are worthless?  Currently, they're protected by unions and civil service regulations.  So it's not so simple.  And yet some balked at having to reply to an email questioning what they did last week. 

[Presnock]

1 hour ago, jas007 said:

Of course it's about the "value" of the dollar.  People aren't totally stupid.  But even you must admit, if you're honest, that the "value" of the dollar has decreased over time.  Nothing goes in a straight line, but that's the unmistakeable trend.  In recent memory, depending on how old people are, I'm sure there are people here who remember the America they grew up in.  The Post-WWII America and the great middle class that once was but that has now mostly disappeared, thanks to the politicians, the debt based banking system, and the Fed.  Before long, they'll own it all. That's the plan.  "You'll own nothing and you'll be happy."  Was that Klaus Schwab at the WEF? 

 

In the Post WWII US economy, A single man could graduate from high school, find a factory job in one day, and with the pay from that one job, buy a house in the suburbs, buy a car for the family, support a wife and a couple of kids, send those kids to college, and have money left over to save for retirement.  Try telling that to a kid today.  ""Work hard kid. Get a Job in a factory, save your money, and you too can live the American Dream." 

 

And yet there are problems with that scenario, no?  The factory jobs have largely disappeared. Saving money is a fools game because of inflation, and even if such a job could be found, it wouldn't pay enough to support a wife and a few kids, the kids could not afford to go to school, and, if they did get an education, they wouldn't be able to find a job when they graduated, and if they did find jobs, those jobs would pay peanuts.  

 

What happened to the value of the dollar? 

Look at England - every 45 minutes of the year 2024 a rich England family relocated to a non-tax country in the midedle east as the economy in Engl;and is like the US, the younger generations have lost out due to being educated for yesteryear's economy so can't find a job to enable them to buy a house nor raise a family comfortably.  Just like the US is becoming today too!

[Presnock]

3 minutes ago, jas007 said:

Anyone who has ever worked for the government will tell you, if they're being honest, that most of the work is done by about 20% of the people.  30% more sort of work, and the other 50% could be gone tomorrow and no one would ever notice the difference. The question is: how to identify the people that are worthless?  Currently, they're protected by unions and civil service regulations.  So it's not so simple.  And yet some balked at having to reply to an email questioning what they did last week. 

I can remember a program about 40 years ago that was started in an agency of the US - they worked with EEO and other offices to come up with 10 different categories of negative work traits and decided that one would need to meet at least 3 before being terminated.  The first ten candidates meeting that criteria were ID'd, then the EEO said it wouldn't work as all ten were black so that program was terminated.  I was a civil servent for 40 years and in my particular office I met very very few that were not working diligently almost all the time.  When I became a manager/worker, all my people worked ALL the time or soon departed from my office.  BUT, I rewarded the strongest workers and as all employees noted that they all began doing extra and people lined up to come work in my office as it was one of the best producers but not always the top as competition and pride of accomplishment zoomed.  Job satisfaction and recognition by seniors made folks stronger!