13 years since my last visit

[lungbing]

I've just returned from a week's holiday in Pattaya.  It was my first visit in 13 years.
And boy has it changed!  Here are some observations in no particular order.

 

1.  Far, far less bars. Up on my old stomping ground on Second Rd about soi 2-4 the
bars are not only closed, but gone and built over.  That includes the former Carlton Hotel
at the top of soi 4 where I used to stay.  Now they're just anonymous offices.
Most bars along Beach Rd gone.

 

2.  Far, far more massage parlours.  Not the soapy sort, the open to the street ones.
    All appeared to be doing no business at all.

 

3.  Far, far more Indian restaurants, all appearing empty.  
    13 years ago you'd have been hard pressed to find one.

 

4   Far more families.

 

5.  Far more Russians.

 

6.  Far, far more Indian people, including a large proportion of the shop owners.
   
7.  Ganja shops.  They just didn't exist 13 years ago.  

 

8.  Walking Street and soi 8 now mere shadows of their former selves.

 

9.  A much cleaner beach.

 

10.  Ladies of the night standing on their own patch all along the Beach Rd were from every nationality   under the sun.  I've never seen African women there before.

 

11.  Far less ladymen on Beach Rd.

 

12.  Speedboats getting far too close to the beach and swimmers.

 

I can recommend the buffet breakfast at the LK Empress Hotel.  350 baht per person and very good it is too.  Fill up there and you won't need lunch.

 

Finally, can any tell me what is the sailing ship in the bay down towards Nahklua?  I was half excpecting  Captain Jack Sparrow to appear.

 

 

[rattlesnake]

Would you say it has changed for better or worse?

[Maxbkkcm]

10 minutes ago, lungbing said:

I've just returned from a week's holiday in Pattaya.  It was my first visit in 13 years.
And boy has it changed!  Here are some observations in no particular order.

 

1.  Far, far less bars. Up on my old stomping ground on Second Rd about soi 2-4 the
bars are not only closed, but gone and built over.  That includes the former Carlton Hotel
at the top of soi 4 where I used to stay.  Now they're just anonymous offices.
Most bars along Beach Rd gone.

 

2.  Far, far more massage parlours.  Not the soapy sort, the open to the street ones.
    All appeared to be doing no business at all.

 

3.  Far, far more Indian restaurants, all appearing empty.  
    13 years ago you'd have been hard pressed to find one.

 

4   Far more families.

 

5.  Far more Russians.

 

6.  Far, far more Indian people, including a large proportion of the shop owners.
   
7.  Ganja shops.  They just didn't exist 13 years ago.  

 

8.  Walking Street and soi 8 now mere shadows of their former selves.

 

9.  A much cleaner beach.

 

10.  Ladies of the night standing on their own patch all along the Beach Rd were from every nationality   under the sun.  I've never seen African women there before.

 

11.  Far less ladymen on Beach Rd.

 

12.  Speedboats getting far too close to the beach and swimmers.

 

I can recommend the buffet breakfast at the LK Empress Hotel.  350 baht per person and very good it is too.  Fill up there and you won't need lunch.

 

Finally, can any tell me what is the sailing ship in the bay down towards Nahklua?  I was half excpecting  Captain Jack Sparrow to appear.

 

 

would say it was better before more authentic and quiet or is today better? 

[lungbing]

I was careful not to say if it was better or worse.  But, as you've asked, I think worse.  I miss the Malibu Bar revue, the banter with the girls, The Wienchang restaurant where the waiter would wear roller skates to bring your food while blowing a whistle.  I think I remember Pattaya at its best.  The best value there now is the 10 baht songtaew ride. Pattaya now is more like Blackpool (UK). 

[rattlesnake]

My brother was here recently (not in Pattaya) after a 10-year hiatus, and one of the things that struck him was that the Thais have lost their smile.

[connda]

24 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

Would you say it has changed for better or worse?

Me an Pattaya.  Visited in 1986. Came back in 2007.  Spent one night and left. Never been back.

[Maxbkkcm]

5 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

My brother was here recently (not in Pattaya) after a 10-year hiatus, and one of the things that struck him was that the Thais have lost their smile.

Lost their smile in what ways? Less genuine than before ? 

[rattlesnake]

5 minutes ago, Maxbkkcm said:

Lost their smile in what ways? Less genuine than before ? 

 

Just not as happy looking, more serious. I suspected that was the case, but was interested in having his view as he could compare two distinctive points in time (unlike myself as I live here and have seen the change take place very gradually).

[Sir Dude]

Well, if you are in the tourist hotspots, then I can imagine it has changed a lot with the influx of Russians, Arabs, Ukrainians, Chinese etc. for all sorts of reasons, from draft dodging the Ukraine war to the Chinese trying to flee with their money from the CCP. 

I can also imagine many old hands returning to the holiday hotspots thinking that they are no longer how they remember, and are disappointed. You can still have fun, but it clearly has lost some shine and is not was it was back in the glory days.... change is inevitable, I guess.

You have to make a choice... accept the new reality and FUBAR stuff going on now in such places... or migrate to more sensible places in Thailand that still offer the real experience. There are pros and cons in all things, but the caveats in tourist places are getting more numerous... your call.

[Celsius]

29 minutes ago, lungbing said:

Pattaya now is more like Blackpool (UK). 

 

Oh no, so you are saying it's exactly like UK without NHS

[Maxbkkcm]

3 minutes ago, Sir Dude said:

Well, if you are in the tourist hotspots, then I can imagine it has changed a lot with the influx of Russians, Arabs, Ukrainians, Chinese etc. for all sorts of reasons, from draft dodging the Ukraine war to the Chinese trying to flee with their money from the CCP. 

I can also imagine many old hands returning to the holiday hotspots thinking that they are no longer how they remember, and are disappointed. You can still have fun, but it clearly has lost some shine and is not was it was back in the glory days.... change is inevitable, I guess.

You have to make a choice... accept the new reality and FUBAR stuff going on now in such places... or migrate to more sensible places in Thailand that still offer the real experience. There are pros and cons in all things, but the caveats in tourist places are getting more numerous... your call.

Which place offer the real experience these days? 

[Don Giovanni]

Same here. I'm back in Japan now and will never go back to Thailand in High Season ever again.

 

The things I saw there (I also went to Pattaya) really did shock me.

 

Don.

[Lucky Bones]

20 minutes ago, connda said:

Me an Pattaya.  Visited in 1986. Came back in 2007.  Spent one night and left. Never been back.

Agreed. I did similar over similar times with Phukit. Reckon we and the cities change. Each generation will experience differently.🙃🙃

[Sir Dude]

11 minutes ago, Maxbkkcm said:

Which place offer the real experience these days? 

Use your imagination... you (and others) can still do that, I guess, but it depends what you are after and what floats your boat, which only you can answer. Not for me to apply cannon law on this one... your call if you are wondering about it, and if you aren't, then my post is nonsense. Up to you.

[Maxbkkcm]

13 minutes ago, Don Giovanni said:

Same here. I'm back in Japan now and will never go back to Thailand in High Season ever again.

 

The things I saw there (I also went to Pattaya) really did shock me.

 

Don.

What did you see there? 

[DrJack54]

Apparently you skipped over Covid effect on places such as Rolling bar Soi 8 as just One Example.

 

[rattlesnake]

35 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Apparently you skipped over Covid effect on places such as Rolling bar Soi 8 as just One Example.

 

 

Covid was definitely a pivotal event. Thailand as a whole still hasn't recovered from it.

[Patong2021]

1 hour ago, Maxbkkcm said:

Which place offer the real experience these days? 

 

Try Issan and Northern Thailand. I find the Issan/Laotian people to be genuinely kind hearted, friendly and decent compared to urban Thais and southerners. Even The areas up in Loei, Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai were friendly in their own way. Urban Thais are as miserable as any other urban people. Miserable from the stress of city life. Traffic, air pollution, the cost of everything in a city makes it hard to be happy. As my friend from Bangkok says, at least when he goes home to visit the grandparents in  rural Ubon, if he ever gets hungry, there is always a banana or a papaya on a tree and people will always share food. 

[ChaiyaTH]

30 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

Covid was definitely a pivotal event. Thailand as a whole still hasn't recovered from it.

Nothin to do with covid but with that Thailand has been in a downward spiral ever since '16 and '17. Worst yet have to start too as they are even getting lazier, I wrongfully hoped and thought during covid that this would be their big wake up call. All that happened since is higher prices for even less service / quality.

 

Same, IDK it is me but anytime I check tickets the price from Thailand to a place, is almost double compared to flying back to Thailand from that place. To the point that flights that used to be max 2K baht now costing 6K or even more. It's sometimes even cheaper to fly via Singapore.

[Maxbkkcm]

3 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

 

Try Issan and Northern Thailand. I find the Issan/Laotian people to be genuinely kind hearted, friendly and decent compared to urban Thais and southerners. Even The areas up in Loei, Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai were friendly in their own way. Urban Thais are as miserable as any other urban people. Miserable from the stress of city life. Traffic, air pollution, the cost of everything in a city makes it hard to be happy. As my friend from Bangkok says, at least when he goes home to visit the grandparents in  rural Ubon, if he ever gets hungry, there is always a banana or a papaya on a tree and people will always share food. 

what about nakhon sawan?

[ChaiyaTH]

2 hours ago, Maxbkkcm said:

Lost their smile in what ways? Less genuine than before ? 

Apathy is the new normal, the smiles were never genuine there just a lot different ones.

[rattlesnake]

10 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Nothin to do with covid but with that Thailand has been in a downward spiral ever since '16 and '17. Worst yet have to start too as they are even getting lazier, I wrongfully hoped and thought during covid that this would be their big wake up call. 

 

Could you expand on this? 2016 was the death of the King (and I definitely think this was a pivotal event too), is that what you are referring to?

 

My wife is from Ubon and I know a lot of people there. I have definitely noticed a before/after Covid. Many people were doing just fine before, now they are struggling, the flashy cars were repossessed long ago and they are in debt, with no solid prospects. The government's current focus on tourism may boost figures on a macro level, but it isn't doing much for mainland Thailand, and this certainly isn't going to be resolved by sporadic 10k handouts.

[ChaiyaTH]

2 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

Could you expand on this? 2016 was the death of the King (and I definitely think this was a pivotal event too), is that what you are referring to?

 

My wife is from Ubon and I know a lot of people there. I have definitely noticed a before/after Covid. Many people were doing just fine before, now they are struggling, the flashy cars were repossessed long ago and they are in debt, with no solid prospects. The government's current focus on tourism only may boost figures on a macro level, but it isn't doing much for mainland Thailand, and this certainly isn't going to be resolved by sporadic 10k handouts.

It was the peak of real estate and tourist arrivals, while at that time the tourists where still spending good and also came from the old school countries. Now it is replaced for a large part with those from other countries like Chinese, Arabs, Indians Russians/Ukrainians and Israeli.

 

But yeah now you say so, interesting that it is the same time.

[ChaiyaTH]

9 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

My wife is from Ubon and I know a lot of people there. I have definitely noticed a before/after Covid. Many people were doing just fine before, now they are struggling, the flashy cars were repossessed long ago and they are in debt, with no solid prospects. The government's current focus on tourism only may boost figures on a macro level, but it isn't doing much for mainland Thailand, and this certainly isn't going to be resolved by sporadic 10k handouts.

Well this stuff never made any sense to begin with, how do you explain around that same time, everyone suddenly owned a condo, had a brand new car, the latest iphone, was always going out and having fun, while they earned way less than me.

I never understood how these money printers kept going for so long, then they squeezed the easy credit and all people stuck repaying. Hence you see them smile less / outside too. As of no new suckers, the economy then eventually tanks.

Is like all these grab drivers with new cars on a 10-20 year payment plan while they drive like a taxi AKA the car won't even last 5 years.

[rattlesnake]

9 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

It was the peak of real estate and tourist arrivals, while at that time the tourists where still spending good and also came from the old school countries. Now it is replaced for a large part with those from other countries like Chinese, Arabs, Indians Russians/Ukrainians and Israeli.

 

But yeah now you say so, interesting that it is the same time.

 

The change in tourist demographics and spending habits are definitely notable. The Thai government clearly still believes that foreigners = big money, but this is not the case anymore.

 

I saw a cocktail bar open just recently in Hua Hin, nice place, with a bit of an "exclusive" vibe. The place is always dead. Why? Because the farangs who have moved here over the past 2 years (and I know several personally) are poor, they don't have enough money to make it in their respective countries and are surviving here on 20-40k/month.

[ChaiyaTH]

1 minute ago, rattlesnake said:

 

The change in tourist demographics and pending habits are definitely notable. The Thai government clearly still believes that foreigners = big money, but this is not the case anymore.

 

I saw a cocktail bar open just recently in Hua Hin, nice place, with a bit of an "exclusive" vibe. The place is always dead. Why? Because the farangs who have moved here over the past 2 years (and I know several personally) are poor, they don't have enough money to make it in their respective countries and are surviving here on 20-40k/month.

They went from quality to quantity tourists, it is like getting people from Europe doing a holiday to a country in Europe. In terms of like bars and restaurants the problem is also that everyone copies the exact same thing, and there is way way way too many of them + the idiots now spread it out over too many areas everywhere to think and be smart with having lower rents. The result: almost no customers in each place which then also results in no vibes at all.

 

Even with the current demographics and budgets it could still be fine if that was fixed. We basically need a big crash, wipe out the weak hands.

[rattlesnake]

1 minute ago, ChaiyaTH said:

In terms of like bars and restaurants the problem is also that everyone copies the exact same thing, and there is way way way too many of them

 

100%, I rarely give my opinion but if asked, I will always say "do something nobody else is doing" (and think "please, pretty please don't open a bar, restaurant or massage parlor!!").

[ChaiyaTH]

4 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

they don't have enough money to make it in their respective countries and are surviving here on 20-40k/month.

Well I guess these few people are the only ones left, it is the same up north with that. They now simply get noticed more as that is all there is lol. Sad but true.

[ChaiyaTH]

1 minute ago, rattlesnake said:

 

100%, I rarely give my opinion but if asked, I will always say "do something nobody else is doing" (and think "please, pretty please don't open a bar, restaurant or massage parlor!!").

It's in almost any way you look at it, a ego thing to even consider starting to do here, even business in general. There is just better alternatives with less risk. Thailand is a place to spend the money, not to earn it.

[Maxbkkcm]

7 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Well this stuff never made any sense to begin with, how do you explain around that same time, everyone suddenly owned a condo, had a brand new car, the latest iphone, was always going out and having fun, while they earned way less than me.

I never understood how these money printers kept going for so long, then they squeezed the easy credit and all people stuck repaying. Hence you see them smile less / outside too. As of no new suckers, the economy then eventually tanks.

Is like all these grab drivers with new cars on a 10-20 year payment plan while they drive like a taxi AKA the car won't even last 5 years.

do you think they identify with their possesions instead of finding self worth inside? Isnt it paradoxal for them?