13 years since my last visit

[ChaiyaTH]

2 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

My brother was here recently (not in Pattaya) after a 10-year hiatus, and one of the things that struck him was that the Thais have lost their smile.

Well that was about their only USP compared to like Vietnam lol.  I heard short time now even often is quoted at 2.5-3K already in PTY...

[ChaiyaTH]

8 minutes ago, Maxbkkcm said:

do you think they identify with their possesions instead of finding self worth inside? Isnt it paradoxal for them?

It's not even a thinking matter, that is a fact. Anyone knows, even Thais will tell you that right away. The entire life is about face and face is appearance, surface, not depth. That's why even the fake gucci is better than no gucci in a rural village amongst teens too, even all know it's fake.

[rattlesnake]

Just now, ChaiyaTH said:

Well that was about their only USP compared to like Vietnam lol.  I heard short time now even often is quoted at 2.5-3K already in PTY...

 

Yeah… Another thing he said what that Thailand was still a lot more attractive than the UK, for various reasons (relaxed atmosphere, prices, cheap quality food…). That's the thing, the whole world is in a downwards spiral, 2024 Thailand is not as good as 2014 Thailand, but still better than 2024 Europe.

[ChaiyaTH]

2 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

Yeah… Another thing he said what that Thailand was still a lot more attractive than the UK, for various reasons (relaxed atmosphere, prices, cheap quality food…). That's the thing, the whole world is in a downwards spiral, 2024 Thailand is not as good as 2014 Thailand, but still better than 2024 Europe.

Well that is very relative, if you are at minimum wage level to begin with, you would be better off in Europe even it is nicer here, specially if you would have a child / small family. If I would get back to that income level again for some reason, I'd be moving to Vietnam the month after.

 

It's easier to stay here with her having family here, else I'd already be elsewhere with the recent years BS.

[Packer]

5 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

I heard short time now even often is quoted at 2.5-3K already in PTY

 

Is that Rupees, Yuan or Rubles. 

[ChaiyaTH]

9 minutes ago, Packer said:

 

Is that Rupees, Yuan or Rubles. 

Thai baht obviously, nonsense question. Used to be possible go in and out with room and all for 1.5-2K in soi 6 right before covid, even with 2 drinks. Now you look more at like losing at very least 4-5K. Just going out once a week, which i would consider modest, sets one back already 20K a month.

 

This is also why the new generation just goes for the girlfriend / dating way, it is easier to just maintain a girl then. They (thais) all do it to themself.

 

I'm even pretty sure that the increase of drug incidents (by tourists) is related to the high alcohol prices in clubs etc.

[rattlesnake]

4 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Well that is very relative, if you are at minimum wage level to begin with, you would be better off in Europe even it is nicer here, specially if you would have a child / small family. If I would get back to that income level again for some reason, I'd be moving to Vietnam the month after.

 

It's easier to stay here with her having family here, else I'd already be elsewhere with the recent years BS.

 

Ultimately, the issue is that too many people are doing BS jobs. A "content creator" or "online copywriter" or whatever can make up to 1,000 euros per month, but there are no solid prospects when one chooses this avenue. I very much doubt that the new arrivals in Thailand (typically young, single and poor) will make it here in any significant way.

[ChaiyaTH]

2 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

Ultimately, the issue is that too many people are doing BS jobs. A "content creator" or "online copywriter" or whatever can make up to 1,000 euros per month, but there are no solid prospects when one chooses this avenue. I very much doubt that the new arrivals in Thailand (typically young, single and poor) will make it here in any significant way.

Is have nothing to do with BS jobs, I know plenty that do those kind of things and it is not that hard to make 2000-3000 per month with that as well. There is just a lot of people who 'try' to also do that but lack the skills and discipline to also make it sustainable. 

The sad thing is actually that people think that the money is that little lol, it often is actually much more that online people earn, like 4-5k usd. Just a lot of wannabes and then all people with traditional jobs or retirements that hate to believe it and see it.

 

I mean I would be pissed off if I worked my ass off for 40 years to see a 20-30 year old chilling off 3-5K a month working 24-30 hours a week.

[rattlesnake]

3 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Is have nothing to do with BS jobs, I know plenty that do those kind of things and it is not that hard to make 2000-3000 per month with that as well. There is just a lot of people who 'try' to also do that but lack the skills and discipline to also make it sustainable. 

The sad thing is actually that people think that the money is that little lol, it often is actually much more that online people earn, like 4-5k usd. Just a lot of wannabes and then all people with traditional jobs or retirements that hate to believe it and see it.

 

I mean I would be pissed off if I worked my ass off for 40 years to see a 20-30 year old chilling off 3-5K a month working 24-30 hours a week.

 

I definitely agree, I have been working online myself for 15+ years and I have actual skills… But I can only notice the current massive inlux of "content creators" who have no skills. It's similar to the bars and massage parlors, I mean who needs another geezer walking on the beach with his phone in selfie mode, explaining what it's like to live in Thailand, yet there are 50 who pop up per month.

[Maxbkkcm]

36 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

The change in tourist demographics and spending habits are definitely notable. The Thai government clearly still believes that foreigners = big money, but this is not the case anymore.

 

I saw a cocktail bar open just recently in Hua Hin, nice place, with a bit of an "exclusive" vibe. The place is always dead. Why? Because the farangs who have moved here over the past 2 years (and I know several personally) are poor, they don't have enough money to make it in their respective countries and are surviving here on 20-40k/month.

so why they keep opening place overpriced? why not cater for the lower budgets instead? 

[ChaiyaTH]

1 minute ago, Maxbkkcm said:

so why they keep opening place overpriced? why not cater for the lower budgets instead? 

That culture, is the entire issue. There is like so many solutions in this country, that is why I believed in it 15 years ago, we are still in debate on the same topics lol.

 

Is like a guy buys a bike with installments and 10% interest, then he wants to sell it half way for what he paid incl interest + the remaining installments, thinking that is normal. 

[rattlesnake]

Just now, Maxbkkcm said:

so why they keep opening place overpriced? why not cater for the lower budgets instead? 

 

They obviously don't do the basic due diligence and are under some sort of illusion… which quickly dissipates as these places never last long.

[ChaiyaTH]

5 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

I definitely agree, I have been working online myself for 15+ years and I have actual skills… But I can only notice the current massive inlux of "content creators" who have no skills. It's similar to the bars and massage parlors, I mean who needs another geezer walking on the beach with his phone in selfie mode, explaining what it's like to live in Thailand, yet there are 50 who pop up per month.

I think since quite a few years, the actual earners on digital nomads, by far, spend more than retirees i see here. There is just a few high spending farangs on every 50 I met. Even a startup nomad with 1K is totally perfect, that is the same as a backpacker used to spend, these people sort themselves out anyway with growing or failing and returning home.

 

I rather have 5 million of those with 1.5K a month than 15M chinese spending 500 dollars in a 7 day trip.

[Maxbkkcm]

2 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

That culture, is the entire issue. There is like so many solutions in this country, that is why I believed in it 15 years ago, we are still in debate on the same topics lol.

 

Is like a guy buys a bike with installments and 10% interest, then he wants to sell it half way for what he paid incl interest + the remaining installments, thinking that is normal. 

why they put stuff and material over self reflection? Plus its not Korea so why they want luxuries wihout working hard? 

[rattlesnake]

3 minutes ago, Maxbkkcm said:

why not cater for the lower budgets instead? 

 

The lower budgets go to Thai-owned places, there is very little space for farangs here, as ChaiyaTH said, best to make the money elsewhere and spend it here.

[Maxbkkcm]

27 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

It's not even a thinking matter, that is a fact. Anyone knows, even Thais will tell you that right away. The entire life is about face and face is appearance, surface, not depth. That's why even the fake gucci is better than no gucci in a rural village amongst teens too, even all know it's fake.

and why no depth? Depth is everything. Fakeness does not exist, just an illusion. Why not accept the reality and self reflect?

[rattlesnake]

2 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

I think since quite a few years, the actual earners on digital nomads, by far, spend more than retirees i see here.

 

Definitely.

[ChaiyaTH]

3 minutes ago, Maxbkkcm said:

why they put stuff and material over self reflection? Plus its not Korea so why they want luxuries wihout working hard? 

Self reflection = face only. But yes it is pathetic at this stage as they even lose face by not being able to keep the fakeness up anymore. I guess that's why no more smile. Guess we resolved the mistery.

[Maxbkkcm]

2 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Self reflection = face only. But yes it is pathetic at this stage as they even lose face by not being able to keep the fakeness up anymore. I guess that's why no more smile. Guess we resolved the mistery.

so what's the future will be you think? Prices increases too. Will tourists and expats keeps coming? 

[ChaiyaTH]

4 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

The lower budgets go to Thai-owned places, there is very little space for farangs here, as ChaiyaTH said, best to make the money elsewhere and spend it here.

Low budget mid budget high budget does not really change anything in the first place. The service still always lacks, they still make the mistakes all the time etc etc. I guess the only exception is when you really go to high tier places and the 5 star hotels. But I mean, you then also pay western prices X2.

[ChaiyaTH]

9 minutes ago, Maxbkkcm said:

so what's the future will be you think? Prices increases too. Will tourists and expats keeps coming? 

Well the clown show will drag on until global economy collapses or the Thai economy collapses before that itself already like Indonesia. However in case of Thai economy collapsing and foreign currencies getting very strong for THB, we will only attract more of the current type of tourists and problems. 

Then the typical Thai government response will be what you already see now: the farang hate news, wanting to reduce visa's etc etc. Then we will see again.. Rinse and repeat. Wax on Wax off. Regardless of what happens; never fix the real underlying cause.

 

You could see that with covid, even they were send back to farms and stuck with instant noodles, they not changed a inch, even worse, they went back to things like begging and donations. Foreigners fueled this only further by donating too. Farmers who could not even grow food....

 

This is also not different with western countries by the way, just different level of issues at higher stakes dollars. As long people have a roof and bread; they will comply.

[Maxbkkcm]

3 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Well the clown show will drag on until global economy collapses or the Thai economy collapses before that itself already like Indonesia. However in case of Thai economy collapsing and foreign currencies getting very strong for THB, we will only attract more of the current type of tourists and problems. 

Then the typical Thai government response will be what you already see now: the farang hate news, wanting to reduce visa's etc etc. Then we will see again.. Rinse and repeat. Wax on Wax off. Regardless of what happens; never fix the real underlying cause.

 

You could see that with covid, even they were send back to farms and stuck with instant noodles, they not changed a inch. This is also not different with western countries by the way, just different level of issues at higher stakes dollars. As long people have a roof and bread; they will comply.

so no chance of becoming the new korea or singapore? Bangkok wants to look like that sometimes. And how do you think these bad tourists can have so much money to travel? I never understood, in the past low iq people did not have money and stay home. Now its the opposite, everything Upside down and nothing make sense anymore like 10 15 years ago.... Do you know what has happened to be like that?

[ChaiyaTH]

3 minutes ago, Maxbkkcm said:

so no chance of becoming the new korea or singapore? Bangkok wants to look like that sometimes. And how do you think these bad tourists can have so much money to travel? I never understood, in the past low iq people did not have money and stay home. Now its the opposite, everything Upside down and nothing make sense anymore like 10 15 years ago.... Do you know what has happened to be like that?

It's not much at all, you talk about like half the global population being near Thailand. They just visit here on packages and pre booked deals like Europeans do within Europe. Maybe you forget that the west is basically broke, that doesn't mean the money went out of global circulation, it went elsewhere instead. 

 

A chinese could been paying 50 dollars monthly for a year or 2 already, to then arrive here with a group. You could have 250 million of them over the next 10 years alone. Thai elite earns on flights, all things that earn regardless of the type of tourist that matter to real Thais / SME business.

[scorecard]

3 hours ago, Don Giovanni said:

Same here. I'm back in Japan now and will never go back to Thailand in High Season ever again.

 

The things I saw there (I also went to Pattaya) really did shock me.

 

Don.

Examples... things that shocked you... please share.

[rattlesnake]

2 minutes ago, Maxbkkcm said:

so no chance of becoming the new korea or singapore? Bangkok wants to look like that sometimes. And how do you think these bad tourists can have so much money to travel? I never understood, in the past low iq people did not have money and stay home. Now its the opposite, everything Upside down and nothing make sense anymore like 10 15 years ago.... Do you know what has happened to be like that?

 

Those new demographics have no families or responsibilities. So they can easily save the few hundred euros required for their plane tickets. It's totally normal nowadays to meet a 40 year-old with no prospects or life plan. 15 years ago, this was still pretty rare.

[ChaiyaTH]

2 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Examples... things that shocked you... please share.

Demographics. Vibe. Prices X2 minimum. Less smiles. - That's about all that makes TH unique.

[ChaiyaTH]

3 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

Those new demographics have no families or responsibilities. So they can easily save the few hundred euros required for their plane tickets. It's totally normal nowadays to meet a 40 year-old with no prospects or life plan. 15 years ago, this was still pretty rare.

Yeah but a round trip for them is also just as little as 150 dollars, they then buy a package deal and sometimes just stay a week. Even a person earning just 500-600 a month in India or china can afford this by paying monthly, which is common with those things. Thais do this a lot too, to korea etc.

[hotsun]

6 minutes ago, Maxbkkcm said:

so no chance of becoming the new korea or singapore? Bangkok wants to look like that sometimes. And how do you think these bad tourists can have so much money to travel? I never understood, in the past low iq people did not have money and stay home. Now its the opposite, everything Upside down and nothing make sense anymore like 10 15 years ago.... Do you know what has happened to be like that?

Thailand is not intelligent enough to become developed. The leaders there will always put themselves and china before their own people

[Maxbkkcm]

2 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

Those new demographics have no families or responsibilities. So they can easily save the few hundred euros required for their plane tickets. It's totally normal nowadays to meet a 40 year-old with no prospects or life plan. 15 years ago, this was still pretty rare.

so its the me me me syndrom? These selfish millenials who dont believe in anything? Who are not ready to sacrifice and prefer be degenerate in developped countries? The west used to be more positive back in the days...

[ChaiyaTH]

3 minutes ago, hotsun said:

Thailand is not intelligent enough to become developed. The leaders there will always put themselves and china before their own people

I think it's by design. But yes the people as a result are def. not smart enough and fked by it as it became one with culture. The same elite is also top investor in Vietnam, where they do do all right... So they clearly know then...