Increases in vaccine-preventable disease outbreaks threaten years of progress

[richard_smith237]

15 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

By all means, the superior members of society should devise an actionable Final Solution to resolve the "Antivaxxer Question"…

 

They already have....   they called it Vaccination !!!!... 

 

The word "vaccination" comes from the Latin word vacca, meaning "cow."

 

In the late 18th century, English physician Edward Jenner discovered that milkmaids who had caught cowpox (a much milder disease) seemed immune to smallpox, a deadly disease at the time. In 1796, he tested this by taking pus from a cowpox sore on a milkmaid’s hand and inoculating it into a young boy. The boy didn’t get smallpox - and voilà, the first vaccine was born.

Jenner called the procedure "vaccination" to honour the cow connection - from variolae vaccinae, Latin for "cowpox." Over time, "vaccination" came to refer more broadly to any immunisation procedure.

[richard_smith237]

2 hours ago, Stiddle Mump said:

2 hours ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

What does nature suggest if I get bubonic plague. Eat an apple. Go for a run. 

Nature would say to take care of yourself. Eat nutritious food. Stay away for vaccines.

 

An apple a day - keeps the doctor away.

 

Wrong - nature would 'say'... 30 to 60% us are dead !... 

 

... or if the infection progresses to septicemic or pneumonic plague - the fatality rate would be 100%

 

... but sure... take that apple.....    ignore antibiotics !!! nature has a way, right ? 

 

[rattlesnake]

4 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

They already have....   they called it Vaccination !!!!... 

 

The word "vaccination" comes from the Latin word vacca, meaning "cow."

 

In the late 18th century, English physician Edward Jenner discovered that milkmaids who had caught cowpox (a much milder disease) seemed immune to smallpox, a deadly disease at the time. In 1796, he tested this by taking pus from a cowpox sore on a milkmaid’s hand and inoculating it into a young boy. The boy didn’t get smallpox - and voilà, the first vaccine was born.

Jenner called the procedure "vaccination" to honour the cow connection - from variolae vaccinae, Latin for "cowpox." Over time, "vaccination" came to refer more broadly to any immunisation procedure.

 

Interesting, I did not know that.

 

I have more of a problem with the heavy metals included in the recent versions, which are demonstrably problematic, as well as the frequency of inoculations in babies (c.f. the CDC graph from the other thread where one can verify that a minimum of 17 doses are injected into humans by the time they reach 6 months of age).

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, rattlesnake said:

 

Interesting, I did not know that.

 

I have more of a problem with the heavy metals included in the recent versions, which are demonstrably problematic, as well as the frequency of inoculations in babies (c.f. the CDC graph from the other thread where one can verify that a minimum of 17 doses are injected into humans by the time they reach 6 months of age).

 

1) Which heavy metals ?...   

 

Aluminium salts (adjuvants) - found in some flu vaccines, not MMR. They stimulate a stronger immune response. You actually get more aluminium from food and water than from a vaccine.

 

Thimerosal (ethylmercury) - found only in some multi-dose flu vials (not in MMR). It's a preservative and has been mostly phased out due to public concern, even though studies show it's safe in those tiny amounts.

 

 

2) In that 'other thread' you posted a very bold bright alarming infographic which stated a 6 month old baby has had more vaccinations than an us (the reader) ??...  You've now changed that to 17 doses of vaccinations.

 

Interesting how the narrative evolves...   

 

It was a decade ago - but I dont recall 17 doses for my son... if my count is correct - 5 vaccines is the number (12 doses in total - or if you wanted to be particularly alarmist DTP-Hib-IPV is a combo vaccine, so you could count thats as 15 doses - but to do so would really betray some bias.

 

BCG (Tuberculosis) - 1st dose – At birth (only dose)

Hepatitis B - 1st (Birth) / 2nd (2 Mo) / 3rd (6 Mo)

DTP-Hib-IPV (Diphtheria, Tetanus, Pertussis, influenzae type B, Polio) - 1st (2 Mo) / 2nd (4 Mo) / 3rd (6 Mo)

Rotavirus - 1st (2 Mo) / 2nd (4 Mo) / 3rd dose (6 Mo) 

PCV (Pneumococcal Conjugate Vaccine) - 1st (2 Mo) / 2nd  (4 Mo) / 3rd (6 Mo)

 

 

 

 

[rattlesnake]

19 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

1) Which heavy metals ?...   

 

Aluminium salts (adjuvants) - found in some flu vaccines, not MMR. They stimulate a stronger immune response. You actually get more aluminium from food and water than from a vaccine.

 

Thimerosal (ethylmercury) - found only in some multi-dose flu vials (not in MMR). It's a preservative and has been mostly phased out due to public concern, even though studies show it's safe in those tiny amounts.

 

Here is information which those reading can go check by themselves.

 

Ingredients included in the vaccines injected into children's (often babies') bodies:

Polysorbate 80

Thimerosal Mercury

Aluminum

Formaldehyde

M59 Squalene

Acetone Sodium Borate (Borax)

2-Phenoxyethanol

SV40

Triton X-100

Bovine Calf Serum

Poultry Serum

Poultry Byproducts

 

Animal Organs Used To Make Vaccines:

MDCK: Madin Darby Canine Kidney, female Cocker Spaniel

VERO: African Green Monkey Kidney

FRHL: Fetal Rhesus Monkey Lung

CHO: Chinese Hamster Ovary

PK-15: Pork Kidney

RK-13: Rabbit Kidney

SIRC: Rabbit Cornea

 

Harvested human organs used to make vaccines:

HEK-293: Human Embryo Kidney, aborted female; used in development of Ebola & Covid

MRC-5: Human Lung, 14 week old aborted male; used in Polio, Rabies, Chickenpox, Hep A & Shingles

WI-38: Human Lung, 12 week old aborted female; used in Polio, Rabies, Chickenpox, Hep A & Shingles

RA 27-3: Human Kidney, 6 weeks old, used in the Rubella & MMR

PER-C6: Human Retina, 18 weeks old, used in the development of Ebola & Covid

IMR-90: Lung from a 16 week old fetus; to replace the WI-38 line

WALVAX-2: Lung from a 3 month old fetus; to replace the WI-38 and MRC-5 line

[rattlesnake]

20 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

2) In that 'other thread' you posted a very bold bright alarming infographic which stated a 6 month old baby has had more vaccinations than an us (the reader) ??...  You've now changed that to 17 doses of vaccinations.

 

Interesting how the narrative evolves...   

 

It was a decade ago - but I dont recall 17 doses for my son... if my count is correct - 5 vaccines is the number (12 doses in total - or if you wanted to be particularly alarmist DTP-Hib-IPV is a combo vaccine, so you could count thats as 15 doses - but to do so would really betray some bias.

 

BCG (Tuberculosis) - 1st dose – At birth (only dose)

Hepatitis B - 1st (Birth) / 2nd (2 Mo) / 3rd (6 Mo)

DTP-Hib-IPV (Diphtheria, Tetanus, Pertussis, influenzae type B, Polio) - 1st (2 Mo) / 2nd (4 Mo) / 3rd (6 Mo)

Rotavirus - 1st (2 Mo) / 2nd (4 Mo) / 3rd dose (6 Mo) 

PCV (Pneumococcal Conjugate Vaccine) - 1st (2 Mo) / 2nd  (4 Mo) / 3rd (6 Mo)

 

Things have changed a lot in ten years, this is part of the problem.

 

Yes, 17 doses is more than what the typical adult over 35 has had in a lifetime, so this meme was grounded in reality and thought-provoking (which is the purpose of memes), and as I stated in that thread, one would have to be dishonest to disregard the issue raised – if I realise I am not dealing with an honest interlocutor, I usually cut short as my time is very precious.

[impulse]

5 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Here's where Trump, Bhattacharya, RFK Jr. and their fellow anti-vaxers are steering the U.S. and the world to the extent they can influence it:

 

Measles Surge in Southwest Is Now the Largest Single Outbreak Since 2000

 

Growing case numbers suggest that national total will surpass that seen during the last large outbreak in 2019.

 

April 22, 2025

 

The spread of measles in the Southwest now constitutes the largest single outbreak since the United States declared the disease eliminated in 2000, federal scientists told state officials in a meeting on Monday.

The New York Times obtained a recording of the meeting. Until now, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention had not publicly described the outbreak in such stark terms.

...

As of Thursday, the C.D.C. had reported 800 measles cases nationwide, but the current tally is likely to be higher because it takes time for the agency to collate state reports. More than 20 separate outbreaks brought the national case count in 2019 up to 1,249, a figure that the country is likely to surpass this year.

(more)

 

New York Times

https://archive.ph/txXD0

 

That's what happens when you let in millions from the 3rd world.  Probably not coincidental that it's in the Southwest.  Where's the border?

 

And how evil do you have to be to allow that to happen at the same time we weren't even allowed to go out to eat?

 

[richard_smith237]

6 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

Here is information which those reading can go check by themselves.

 

Ingredients included in the vaccines injected into children's (often babies') bodies:

Polysorbate 80

Thimerosal Mercury

Aluminum

Formaldehyde

M59 Squalene

Acetone Sodium Borate (Borax)

2-Phenoxyethanol

SV40

Triton X-100

Bovine Calf Serum

Poultry Serum

Poultry Byproducts

 

Animal Organs Used To Make Vaccines:

MDCK: Madin Darby Canine Kidney, female Cocker Spaniel

VERO: African Green Monkey Kidney

FRHL: Fetal Rhesus Monkey Lung

CHO: Chinese Hamster Ovary

PK-15: Pork Kidney

RK-13: Rabbit Kidney

SIRC: Rabbit Cornea

 

Harvested human organs used to make vaccines:

HEK-293: Human Embryo Kidney, aborted female; used in development of Ebola & Covid

MRC-5: Human Lung, 14 week old aborted male; used in Polio, Rabies, Chickenpox, Hep A & Shingles

WI-38: Human Lung, 12 week old aborted female; used in Polio, Rabies, Chickenpox, Hep A & Shingles

RA 27-3: Human Kidney, 6 weeks old, used in the Rubella & MMR

PER-C6: Human Retina, 18 weeks old, used in the development of Ebola & Covid

IMR-90: Lung from a 16 week old fetus; to replace the WI-38 line

WALVAX-2: Lung from a 3 month old fetus; to replace the WI-38 and MRC-5 line

 

That list is clearly written to sound alarming...   its the sort of list we see in an anti-vax social media post or an Anti-vax website...

 

Given your recent posting of a meme-like alarmist info graphic, I'd argue that you are getting your information of a Social Media Anti-vaccination group...  Anti-Vax facebook group or something similar and simply repasting it here... 

 

While the words and acronyms sound concerning its 'fear-washing'... 

.... "would you really inject 'compound beta-162-zytenol' into your innocent little baby ?"... Or

..... "do you really think something made with Chihuahas left testis is safe to inject into a defenceless infant" .... 

 

Lets face it - none of any of the list below is cause for any concern at all....    there is no Thimerosal Mercury in vaccines any more... the amounts of Aluminium are less than we acquire in daily consumption of food and water.

 

The list below - while 'close' to fact, is really alarmist and nothing more....  It has served to waste some time in a debate while I fact check and debunk...  And this is the issue with such discussions, anti-vaxxers can paste lists and information which look alarming, and they take time and energy to fact check so most people don't bother - but when we do, your lists and information are readily debunked....

... how do you respond ?... "thats just mainstream thinking" ...  its a no win, you'll just past more lists and compounds and mixtures no one knows or understands but sound alarming until they are fact-checked...

... "Compounds"... whoa... "you inject compounds into babies ??"  - anything can sound alarmist, until fact checked.... 

 

 

This is my debunk:

 

Ingredients included in the vaccines injected into children's (often babies') bodies:

Polysorbate 80 – An emulsifier used to help ingredients mix properly; generally regarded as safe, though rare allergic reactions may occur.

Thimerosal Mercury – A preservative containing ethylmercury, not methylmercury; phased out of most childhood vaccines in the early 2000s due to public concern, though shown to be safe at low doses.

Aluminium – Used as an adjuvant to boost immune response; safe in small amounts used in vaccines, much less than environmental exposure.

Formaldehyde – Used to inactivate viruses during production; present in trace amounts far lower than naturally occurs in the human body; considered safe.

M59 Squalene – An adjuvant used in some vaccines (not all); has been used safely in flu vaccines in Europe with no evidence of harm.

Acetone Sodium Borate (Borax) – Used occasionally in stabilising solutions; borax can be toxic in high doses, but vaccine levels are far below harmful thresholds.

2-Phenoxyethanol – A preservative used in some vaccines; generally safe in low concentrations, though large amounts could cause irritation.

SV40 – A virus that was present in early polio vaccines in the 1950s-60s; no longer used, and current vaccines are free of SV40.

Triton X-100 – A detergent used in manufacturing to split cells; not present in significant amounts in final vaccines; considered safe in this context.

Bovine Calf Serum – Used as a growth medium for viruses; removed during purification; no evidence of harm in final vaccine products.

Poultry Serum – Used similarly to bovine serum in virus cultivation; well-controlled for safety; not present in final vaccine.

Poultry Byproducts – Used in egg-based vaccine production (e.g. flu); final vaccines are purified and free from byproducts; safe for most unless allergic to eggs.

 

Animal Organs Used To Make Vaccines:

MDCK: Madin Darby Canine Kidney, female Cocker Spaniel – Used to grow flu viruses for vaccines; highly purified in final product; no evidence of harm.

VERO: African Green Monkey Kidney – Used in making polio and other vaccines; cells are filtered out in processing; safe for human use.

FRHL: Fetal Rhesus Monkey Lung – Used in virology research and production; not present in final vaccines; processed to remove cells.

CHO: Chinese Hamster Ovary – Widely used in biotech for protein production; very common, thoroughly purified in end products.

PK-15: Pork Kidney – Used in viral vaccine development; well-regulated and not present in final product; no known risk to humans.

RK-13: Rabbit Kidney – Used in some research and vaccine processes; not part of final vaccine; no health risk to recipients.

SIRC: Rabbit Cornea – Used in lab testing and not typically found in final vaccines; minimal concern for safety.

 

Harvested human organs used to make vaccines:

HEK-293: Human Embryo Kidney, aborted female; used in development of Ebola & Covid – A cell line from a 1970s abortion; widely used for research; cells are cloned, not taken from new tissue; not harmful or present in final vaccines.

MRC-5: Human Lung, 14 week old aborted male; used in Polio, Rabies, Chickenpox, Hep A & Shingles – Cell line developed in 1966; only lab-grown descendants are used; no fetal tissue in vaccines themselves.

WI-38: Human Lung, 12 week old aborted female; used in Polio, Rabies, Chickenpox, Hep A & Shingles – Similar to MRC-5, developed in 1962; not part of final vaccine; used for growing viruses in early stages.

RA 27-3: Human Kidney, 6 weeks old, used in the Rubella & MMR – Virus strain originally grown in fetal cells; final vaccine does not contain these cells.

PER-C6: Human Retina, 18 weeks old, used in the development of Ebola & Covid – Developed in 1985; used in some COVID-19 vaccine production; cells not included in vaccines.

IMR-90: Lung from a 16 week old fetus; to replace the WI-38 line – Another lab-grown cell line from decades ago; safe and only used in early production.

WALVAX-2: Lung from a 3 month old fetus; to replace the WI-38 and MRC-5 line – A more recent cell line (2015); used in some vaccine research; not part of the final injectable product.

[richard_smith237]

32 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

Things have changed a lot in ten years, this is part of the problem.

 

Yes, 17 doses is more than what the typical adult over 35 has had in a lifetime, so this meme was grounded in reality and thought-provoking (which is the purpose of memes), and as I stated in that thread, one would have to be dishonest to disregard the issue raised – if I realise I am not dealing with an honest interlocutor, I usually cut short as my time is very precious.

 

I've actually received more vaccinations in adulthood than I ever did as a child. I’d likely have had even more at a younger age had I been born a decade or two later.

 

As you've rightly pointed out, the landscape of vaccination has evolved significantly over the past ten years. That’s why your comment and info graphic was only misleading, it was alarmist and disingenuous...

 

... implying that infants today are somehow being 'over-vaccinated' and placed at risk, while adults are somehow being neglected.

 

That simply isn’t the case. In fact, the range of available vaccines has expanded considerably, not just for children but for adults as well.

 

Take a moment to consider: as an adult, haven’t you received vaccinations for Polio, Tetanus, Diphtheria, Typhoid, Tuberculosis, Hepatitis (A and B), Measles, or Mumps? Many of us have - because these vaccines either weren’t part of the standard childhood immunisation schedule when we were young because they weren't available back then - which is why children were still seen walking around with leg braces and horrific images of kids in iron lungs were not uncommon...  that doesn't happen anymore.

 

 

 

[rattlesnake]

24 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

That list is clearly written to sound alarming...   its the sort of list we see in an anti-vax social media post or an Anti-vax website...

 

Given your recent posting of a meme-like alarmist info graphic, I'd argue that you are getting your information of a Social Media Anti-vaccination group...  Anti-Vax facebook group or something similar and simply repasting it here... 

 

While the words and acronyms sound concerning its 'fear-washing'... 

.... "would you really inject 'compound beta-162-zytenol' into your innocent little baby ?"... Or

..... "do you really think something made with Chihuahas left testis is safe to inject into a defenceless infant" .... 

 

Lets face it - none of any of the list below is cause for any concern at all....    there is no Thimerosal Mercury in vaccines any more... the amounts of Aluminium are less than we acquire in daily consumption of food and water.

 

The list below - while 'close' to fact, is really alarmist and nothing more....  It has served to waste some time in a debate while I fact check and debunk...  And this is the issue with such discussions, anti-vaxxers can paste lists and information which look alarming, and they take time and energy to fact check so most people don't bother - but when we do, your lists and information are readily debunked....

... how do you respond ?... "thats just mainstream thinking" ...  its a no win, you'll just past more lists and compounds and mixtures no one knows or understands but sound alarming until they are fact-checked...

... "Compounds"... whoa... "you inject compounds into babies ??"  - anything can sound alarmist, until fact checked.... 

 

 

This is my debunk:

 

Ingredients included in the vaccines injected into children's (often babies') bodies:

Polysorbate 80 – An emulsifier used to help ingredients mix properly; generally regarded as safe, though rare allergic reactions may occur.

Thimerosal Mercury – A preservative containing ethylmercury, not methylmercury; phased out of most childhood vaccines in the early 2000s due to public concern, though shown to be safe at low doses.

Aluminium – Used as an adjuvant to boost immune response; safe in small amounts used in vaccines, much less than environmental exposure.

Formaldehyde – Used to inactivate viruses during production; present in trace amounts far lower than naturally occurs in the human body; considered safe.

M59 Squalene – An adjuvant used in some vaccines (not all); has been used safely in flu vaccines in Europe with no evidence of harm.

Acetone Sodium Borate (Borax) – Used occasionally in stabilising solutions; borax can be toxic in high doses, but vaccine levels are far below harmful thresholds.

2-Phenoxyethanol – A preservative used in some vaccines; generally safe in low concentrations, though large amounts could cause irritation.

SV40 – A virus that was present in early polio vaccines in the 1950s-60s; no longer used, and current vaccines are free of SV40.

Triton X-100 – A detergent used in manufacturing to split cells; not present in significant amounts in final vaccines; considered safe in this context.

Bovine Calf Serum – Used as a growth medium for viruses; removed during purification; no evidence of harm in final vaccine products.

Poultry Serum – Used similarly to bovine serum in virus cultivation; well-controlled for safety; not present in final vaccine.

Poultry Byproducts – Used in egg-based vaccine production (e.g. flu); final vaccines are purified and free from byproducts; safe for most unless allergic to eggs.

 

Animal Organs Used To Make Vaccines:

MDCK: Madin Darby Canine Kidney, female Cocker Spaniel – Used to grow flu viruses for vaccines; highly purified in final product; no evidence of harm.

VERO: African Green Monkey Kidney – Used in making polio and other vaccines; cells are filtered out in processing; safe for human use.

FRHL: Fetal Rhesus Monkey Lung – Used in virology research and production; not present in final vaccines; processed to remove cells.

CHO: Chinese Hamster Ovary – Widely used in biotech for protein production; very common, thoroughly purified in end products.

PK-15: Pork Kidney – Used in viral vaccine development; well-regulated and not present in final product; no known risk to humans.

RK-13: Rabbit Kidney – Used in some research and vaccine processes; not part of final vaccine; no health risk to recipients.

SIRC: Rabbit Cornea – Used in lab testing and not typically found in final vaccines; minimal concern for safety.

 

Harvested human organs used to make vaccines:

HEK-293: Human Embryo Kidney, aborted female; used in development of Ebola & Covid – A cell line from a 1970s abortion; widely used for research; cells are cloned, not taken from new tissue; not harmful or present in final vaccines.

MRC-5: Human Lung, 14 week old aborted male; used in Polio, Rabies, Chickenpox, Hep A & Shingles – Cell line developed in 1966; only lab-grown descendants are used; no fetal tissue in vaccines themselves.

WI-38: Human Lung, 12 week old aborted female; used in Polio, Rabies, Chickenpox, Hep A & Shingles – Similar to MRC-5, developed in 1962; not part of final vaccine; used for growing viruses in early stages.

RA 27-3: Human Kidney, 6 weeks old, used in the Rubella & MMR – Virus strain originally grown in fetal cells; final vaccine does not contain these cells.

PER-C6: Human Retina, 18 weeks old, used in the development of Ebola & Covid – Developed in 1985; used in some COVID-19 vaccine production; cells not included in vaccines.

IMR-90: Lung from a 16 week old fetus; to replace the WI-38 line – Another lab-grown cell line from decades ago; safe and only used in early production.

WALVAX-2: Lung from a 3 month old fetus; to replace the WI-38 and MRC-5 line – A more recent cell line (2015); used in some vaccine research; not part of the final injectable product.

 

Of course I get my anti-vaccine information from anti-vaccine sources, just as you get yours from pro-vaccine sources. Both will naturally be formulated according to their bias, emphasising or minimising specific aspects in order to convey the desired message.

 

The core issue is that people never think independently or research things in order to form their own opinion: they should.

 

As I said, people can get acquainted with the information, parse what they deem to be relevant or not and draw their own conclusions. That's all it is about. There are moral and ethical issues about certain facts, such as the use of aborted fetal cells to develop what is colloquially referred to as "medecine". I certainly have reservations about this, and the problem is that the vast majority of the population is not informed about it.

[rattlesnake]

32 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I've actually received more vaccinations in adulthood than I ever did as a child. I’d likely have had even more at a younger age had I been born a decade or two later.

 

As you've rightly pointed out, the landscape of vaccination has evolved significantly over the past ten years. That’s why your comment and info graphic was only misleading, it was alarmist and disingenuous...

 

... implying that infants today are somehow being 'over-vaccinated' and placed at risk, while adults are somehow being neglected.

 

That simply isn’t the case. In fact, the range of available vaccines has expanded considerably, not just for children but for adults as well.

 

Take a moment to consider: as an adult, haven’t you received vaccinations for Polio, Tetanus, Diphtheria, Typhoid, Tuberculosis, Hepatitis (A and B), Measles, or Mumps? Many of us have - because these vaccines either weren’t part of the standard childhood immunisation schedule when we were young because they weren't available back then - which is why children were still seen walking around with leg braces and horrific images of kids in iron lungs were not uncommon...  that doesn't happen anymore.

 

 

 

 

"The landscape of vaccination has evolved" is your way of putting it. Fine, I respect that.

 

I see that I received approximately 10 vaccine doses between the age of 0 and 18, and that this number has now risen to 70 as per CDC guidelines. No need to put a spin on it, that's the reality. And the inconvenient fact is that people nowadays are not healthier than the previous couple of generations, quite the contrary.

 

Those who start threads and routinely complain about "the rise of distrust in science" should take a step back, acknowledge these figures and understand that a significant number of people are simply not okay with this.

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

Of course I get my anti-vaccine information from anti-vaccine sources, just as you get yours from pro-vaccine sources.

 

No.. I don't get my information from 'pro-vaccine' sources - I just get the information from 'scientific sources'... 

 

You call them 'pro-vaccine'...  for everyone else, its just scientific fact...

 

Whereas the anti-vaccination propoganda can so easily be debunked and picked apart.

 

2 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

Both will naturally be formulated according to their bias, emphasising or minimising specific aspects in order to convey the desired message.

 

The core issue is that people never think independently or research things in order to form their own opinion: they should.

 

It’s a bit of a conundrum, really. Take the flat Earth analogy: I could insist on travelling to space to see the planet’s curvature with my own eyes, or I could choose to understand and trust the science - and the testimony of those who have seen it for themselves.

 

Biology presents a similar case. I’ve never seen a cell with the naked eye, yet I accept its existence because scientists, armed with evidence and expertise, tell us so.

 

The reality is, we can't spend our lives independently verifying every claim. I believe Concorde flew at Mach 2, not because I witnessed it firsthand, but because the overwhelming body of evidence leaves little room for doubt.

 

Vaccination is no different. The scientific consensus, bolstered by decades of rigorous study, shows that vaccines work - and that they are overwhelmingly safe. Of course, like anything in life, there are risks. But then, even eating grapes carries a risk if you look closely enough.

 

 

2 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

As I said, people can get acquainted with the information, parse what they deem to be relevant or not and draw their own conclusions. That's all it is about. There are moral and ethical issues about certain facts, such as the use of aborted fetal cells to develop what is colloquially referred to as "medecine". I certainly have reservations about this, and the problem is that the vast majority of the population is not informed about it.

 

Do we really need to be informed about it ? Must we really be outraged about it?

I mean, let’s take a step back - what exactly is the moral dilemma in using fetal fibroblast cells, especially if they come from long-ago, ethically approved sources? If these cells - replicated for decades in a lab - can be used to develop life-saving treatments or vaccines, is that not a profoundly humane application?

 

Where, truly, is the ethical conflict? I struggle to see one. We’re not talking about new terminations or ongoing exploitation, but about scientific progress built on a legacy that, however complex, now holds the potential to preserve countless lives.

 

Isn’t that a moral good in itself?

[richard_smith237]

5 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

"The landscape of vaccination has evolved" is your way of putting it. Fine, I respect that.

 

I see that I received approximately 10 vaccine doses between the age of 0 and 18, and that this number has now risen to 70 as per CDC guidelines. No need to put a spin on it, that's the reality. And the inconvenient fact is that people nowadays are not healthier than the previous couple of generations, quite the contrary.

 

Development of vaccines that were not available to you and I in childhood is an incredible medical advancement.

 

Your statement is also flawed - life expectancy is higher now than its ever been. The reasons are multifaceted and vaccination can be factored in to that.

 

5 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

Those who start threads and routinely complain about "the rise of distrust in science" should take a step back, acknowledge these figures and understand that a significant number of people are simply not okay with this.

 

That’s all well and good - provided you’re also prepared to avoid international travel and accept the ethical responsibility of potentially endangering others, all based on personal, untrained beliefs.

 

If you find yourself placing more trust in the voices of anti-vaccine activists than in the collective knowledge of conventional medicine, it’s worth asking - what would happen if the tables turned?

 

If you became formally educated in virology, witnessed the overwhelming evidence first-hand, and shifted toward supporting vaccination, would your former peers simply dismiss you as having been “taken in by the mainstream”?

 

Likewise, if I immersed myself in virology and, despite the data, emerged convinced that vaccines did more harm than good - would the broader scientific community ignore me as just another anti-vax eccentric?

 

The real dilemma lies in who we choose to trust. And in a world where doubt is easily spread, I find grounding in one thing: statistics..... Life expectancy continues to rise. The heartbreaking images of children ravaged by Polio and Measles have faded. Smallpox has vanished. Diphtheria is virtually forgotten. Rabies? Hardly a death sentence anymore.

 

And that’s not magic. That’s medicine, thats vaccines.

 

Those who reject vaccination must understand - they aren’t just questioning science; they’re challenging decades of global health progress that has spared millions from suffering.

 

 

[GinBoy2]

I have to grimace every time I read the anti vac nonsense.

 

I think most of the demographic reading this remember a time before vaccines.

 

I was the first generation to receive the polio vaccine when I was 5 years old. I remember my mother thanking the doctor so much as I got the vaccine on a sugar lump, she cried when she thanked the Doctor

 

Back then there were hospitals still full of folks destined to spend their lives in iron lungs

 

Measles, chickenpox mumps, kids died ffs.

 

Our mothers took us to pox parties to try to head it off, but kids still died or were handicapped because of it.

 

The trouble with young parents today, they have no memory of what it was like before vaccines, and they buy into the nonsense of online conspiracy  theories