What exactly is a "facist"?

[Cameroni]

2 minutes ago, StandardIssue said:

 

Yes, exactly. This latest move toward protectionism as Trump has enacted with Tariffs and the like is a push towards Nationlism. It is most certainly not a move toward globalism and Internationalism a move toward behaving in harmony with the International Community.

 

There is no doubt that Trump is nationalist. But not every nationalist is a fascist or Nazi. Protectionism like tariffs is neither fascist nor Nazi, but used by all regimes historically.

[Harrisfan]

1 minute ago, StandardIssue said:

Listen, no time to go back to school my friend. Just because a political party has "socialist" in the name doesn't make it a socialist party. What is much more significant and that which goes to define the Nazi party were their actions and policies. You really must do some homework other than watching your Youtube right-wing channels.

It's sad you know nothing about history. Now you are a confirmed idiot.

[StandardIssue]

5 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

It is absolutely ludicrous to use the label of fascist or nazi against someone like Elon Musk or Donald Trump, who are neither. However, they do oppose leftist socialism, so that is why they get tarred with the fascist and nazi labels, because the left's traditional enemy has been fascism and nazism, they reflectlively label all their enemies as fascists and nazis. Very lazy and unoriginal, intellectually bankrupt you could say.

 

But Trump's movements is neither fascist nor National socialist, far from it. It's more of an economic and nationalist movement with strong support for Israel. Quite different to fascism and Nazism, though also opposed to leftist socialism

 

Labeling them as Fascist is one thing. BUT policies moving toward components of it's WELL UNDERSTOOD CHARACTERISTICS is quite another. This is what's concerning wouldn't you agree?

 Extreme Nationalism: Fascism emphasizes the supremacy of the nation, often coupled with a belief in national rebirth or greatness. This can manifest as a focus on a mythic past and the denigration of foreign influences.   

Authoritarianism: Fascist regimes are characterized by strong central control, often led by a single, charismatic leader with absolute power. Individual rights and freedoms are subordinate to the state.
Militarism: Fascism exalts military virtues, such as discipline, obedience, and strength. Military power is seen as essential for national strength and expansion.
Suppression of Opposition: Fascist regimes forcibly suppress political dissent and opposition. They often employ violence, intimidation, and censorship to maintain control.
Social Hierarchy: Fascism promotes a belief in natural social hierarchies and the rule of elites. Equality is often rejected in favor of a system where certain groups are considered superior.
Cult of the Leader: Fascist movements cultivate a cult of personality around their leader, who is often portrayed as an infallible figure capable of restoring the nation.  
Use of Propaganda and Symbolism: Fascist regimes heavily rely on propaganda to promote their ideology and create a sense of national unity. They often employ powerful symbols and imagery.  
Economic Control: While not strictly adhering to one economic model, fascist regimes typically exert strong control over the economy, often in partnership with powerful business interests, to serve national goals. Labor unions are often suppressed.  
Scapegoating: Fascist movements often identify scapegoats or enemies (e.g., minorities, foreigners, liberals, communists) to unify their followers and divert blame from the regime's failures.  

 

[Harrisfan]

1 minute ago, Cameroni said:

 

There is no doubt that Trump is nationalist. But not every nationalist is a fascist or Nazi. Protectionism like tariffs is neither fascist nor Nazi, but used by all regimes historically.

Fascism is army controlled society. As can be communism but capitalism is not.

 

Myanmar is fascist as is North Korea.

 

 

[Evil Penevil]

Every time I read a comment about the definition of any sort of political ideology or popular movement, whether it be fascism, communism, Marxism,  socialism, liberalism,  anarchism, feminism, Zionism,  etc., etc., etc,, I am reminded of my favorite quote from Lewis  Carroll's Through the Looking Glass:

 

“When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’

’The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.’

’The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master — that’s all.”

 

In modern usage, "fascism" means what an individual chooses it to mean, nothing more or less.  This thread and several others on AN prove that one man's fascist is another man's socialist.

 

[blaze master]

2 hours ago, Tug said:

Yup glad you are starting to understand (sarcasm alert) tho unfortunately the shoe does indeed fit.

 

I just can't even anymore....

 

[Harrisfan]

Countries with Military Control

As of the latest updates, several nations have experienced military control or have recently transitioned from military rule. Here are some examples:

Myanmar: The military seized power in a coup on February 1, 2021, detaining the civilian government leaders.3

Sudan: Following the ousting of President Omar al-Bashir in 2019, the country is currently under a Transitional Military Council, aiming to reinstall democracy by 2022.3

Mali: The military took control in a coup in December 2022, with plans to hold elections to transition back to civilian rule.3

While these countries are currently under military control or have recently experienced it, others like Thailand, Pakistan, and Libya have emerged from military dictatorships but still see significant military influence in governance.

[Harrisfan]

7 minutes ago, StandardIssue said:

 

Labeling them as Fascist is one thing. BUT policies moving toward components of it's WELL UNDERSTOOD CHARACTERISTICS is quite another. This is what's concerning wouldn't you agree?

 Extreme Nationalism: Fascism emphasizes the supremacy of the nation, often coupled with a belief in national rebirth or greatness. This can manifest as a focus on a mythic past and the denigration of foreign influences.   

Authoritarianism: Fascist regimes are characterized by strong central control, often led by a single, charismatic leader with absolute power. Individual rights and freedoms are subordinate to the state.
Militarism: Fascism exalts military virtues, such as discipline, obedience, and strength. Military power is seen as essential for national strength and expansion.
Suppression of Opposition: Fascist regimes forcibly suppress political dissent and opposition. They often employ violence, intimidation, and censorship to maintain control.
Social Hierarchy: Fascism promotes a belief in natural social hierarchies and the rule of elites. Equality is often rejected in favor of a system where certain groups are considered superior.
Cult of the Leader: Fascist movements cultivate a cult of personality around their leader, who is often portrayed as an infallible figure capable of restoring the nation.  
Use of Propaganda and Symbolism: Fascist regimes heavily rely on propaganda to promote their ideology and create a sense of national unity. They often employ powerful symbols and imagery.  
Economic Control: While not strictly adhering to one economic model, fascist regimes typically exert strong control over the economy, often in partnership with powerful business interests, to serve national goals. Labor unions are often suppressed.  
Scapegoating: Fascist movements often identify scapegoats or enemies (e.g., minorities, foreigners, liberals, communists) to unify their followers and divert blame from the regime's failures.  

 

That reads like a pile of rubbish. Written by a teenager or some crazy lefty.

 

USA is a democracy. Mix of capitalism and socialism.

 

A fascist state is army controlled with few individual rights.

[Cameroni]

9 minutes ago, Harrisfan said:

Fascism is army controlled society. As can be communism but capitalism is not.

 

if we define militarism as the "the belief or the desire of a government or a people that a state should maintain a strong military capability and to use it aggressively to expand national interests and/or values", then the interesting question is if the USA is a militarist state or not. The US certainly desires a strong military, as evidenced by its largst military spending and most powerful military, and the people in the US desires this too, eulogise their military and celebrate veterans. 

 

Can one therefore describe the USA as militarist?

[Harrisfan]

Just now, Cameroni said:

 

if we define militarism as the "the belief or the desire of a government or a people that a state should maintain a strong military capability and to use it aggressively to expand national interests and/or values", then the interesting question is if the USA is a militarist state or not. The US certainly desires a strong military, as evidenced by its largst military spending and most powerful military, and the people in the US desires this too, eulogise their military and celebrate veterans. 

 

Can one therefore describe the USA as militarist?

Do tanks roam the streets? No

 

The military is for external conflicts

[BritManToo]

12 hours ago, swissie said:

What exactly is a Facist. Tell me.

Anyone that doesn't agree with me!

[bunnydrops]

10 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

 

The funny thing is, I could imagine a lefty applying that to the right, but I think the right could just as easily apply it to the left. 

 

It all becomes a little meaningless after a while, especially since the only reason it is used is as a kind of linguistic weapon, never in an honest or well meaning way.

No, the right already has their go-to word," Lefty ".

[seajae]

democrats

[Cameroni]

14 minutes ago, Harrisfan said:

Do tanks roam the streets? No

 

The military is for external conflicts

 

Tanks didn't roam the streets of fascist Italy or Nazi Germany prior to war. And you certainly have the military embedded in civil life in the US.

[Harrisfan]

1 minute ago, Cameroni said:

 

Tanks didn't roam the streets of fascist Italy or Nazi Germany prior to war. And you certainly have the military embedded in civil life in the US.

Many see it as a career. Nice pension.

[Cameroni]

1 minute ago, Harrisfan said:

Many see it as a career. Nice pension.

 

Yes, and they certainly glorify their military and veterans in the US.

 

But I take the point, you wouldn't see US society as a preponderantly military society the way others were in the past.

[placeholder]

57 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

That's valid, fascism is nationalist and socialism is internationalist and knows no country.

 

As we are now about to enter an age of nationalism, as we exit globalism, it would be only natural that fascism makes a strong comeback.

 

57 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

That's valid, fascism is nationalist and socialism is internationalist and knows no country.

 

As we are now about to enter an age of nationalism, as we exit globalism, it would be only natural that fascism makes a strong comeback.

Because respecting the Constitution was part of the globalist agenda?

[Cameroni]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

 

Because respecting the Constitution was part of the globalist agenda?

 

No, because the focusing on building up economic self-sufficiency, autarky if you will, should bring with it a more nationalist focused political populace, wich by definition would be less socialist.

 

Maybe we have seen peak socialism.

[placeholder]

28 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

Tanks didn't roam the streets of fascist Italy or Nazi Germany prior to war. And you certainly have the military embedded in civil life in the US.

Just paramilitary forces like the SA and the SS.  A benevolent fun-loving group of guys who like nothing better than a good party scene like Kristallnacht.

[connda]

I can accurately say that virtually no one on this forum knows what Fascism is.  They only construct and fabricate a definition built around the term in order to support their personal world view.

Fascism was succinctly elaborated by Giovanni Gentile and Benito Mussolini.  I even provide Mussolini's thesis on Fascism so members could educate themselves.  Instead?  They continue to spews their own twisted fabrications of what the term Fascism means - virtually all of it wrong. 

Here in this forum, and for that matter, in most situations with most people nowadays, the term "Fascism" and "Fascist" are pejoratives used to malign another individual or group. That's all it is. 98% of those using the term have never studied Fascism or the history of those who promoted the ideology.  We really do live in a very dumbed-down world.  I find it difficult to believe that most people here were able to graduate high school. 

 

[placeholder]

51 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

No, because the focusing on building up economic self-sufficiency, autarky if you will, should bring with it a more nationalist focused political populace, wich by definition would be less socialist.

 

Maybe we have seen peak socialism.

Apart from the likelihood that Trump's economic agenda will fail miserably, you're saying that nationalism = fascism?

[Harrisfan]

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Apart from the likelihood that Trump's economic agenda will fail miserably, you're saying that nationalism = fascism?

Inflation is falling.

[Cameroni]

53 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Just paramilitary forces like the SA and the SS.  A benevolent fun-loving group of guys who like nothing better than a good party scene like Kristallnacht.

 

Well, you have ICE and police roaming in the US, also much criticised. And the 1930s were a turbulent time as socialism was just emerging, the world war had happened. Much more precarious than now.

[placeholder]

 

18 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

Well, you have ICE and police roaming in the US, also much criticised. And the 1930s were a turbulent time as socialism was just emerging, the world war had happened. Much more precarious than now.

 

Are you saying that Kristallnacht wasn't about attacking Jewish business and Jewish people by the SS and SA but rather about attacking socialism?

 

And thanks for likening ICE and police activity to the practices of the SS and SA.

[Harrisfan]

Giovanni Gentile, an Italian philosopher, believed that Fascism could be seen as a form of socialism, specifically a revisionist form that incorporated national identity alongside class identity. Gentile argued that Fascism stemmed from a Marxist school of thought known as Sorelian syndicalism, which he considered the genuine interpretation of Marxist communism.

[Harrisfan]

Gentile's admiration for Marx can be compared to the youthful Adolf Hitler's admiration for the socialist labor movement marching together in a seemingly endless file through the streets of Vienna. What Hitler admired was the labor movement's mobilization for the sake of power. What Gentile admired in Marx was the unity of his system of thought, including its historicity. Gentile wanted to consider the fascist movement as historically progressive

 

http://www.fsmitha.com/h2/phil-gentile.htm

[BLMFem]

3 hours ago, Harrisfan said:

It's sad you know nothing about history. Now you are a confirmed idiot.

After you underwent "the change" you've become emotionally very unstable, Susan. Have you tried hormonal cream?

Oh, and name calling is against forum rules.

[BLMFem]

1 hour ago, Harrisfan said:

Inflation is falling.

 

 

[StandardIssue]

14 hours ago, Mike_Hunt said:

 

Anyone who disagrees with a leftie. 

 

Isn't it interesting that most of the MAGA / right-wing / Trump opponents here make these short, rather blunt posts often with slang and harsh criticism. Many calling people "dumb" or idiots etc. Often times their use of English lacks articulation and any rich vocabulary. Sorry, with respect, it's just fairly stereotypical as far as I have noticed.

[Harrisfan]

4 minutes ago, StandardIssue said:

 

Isn't it interesting that most of the MAGA / right-wing / Trump opponents here make these short, rather blunt posts often with slang and harsh criticism. Many calling people "dumb" or idiots etc. Often times their use of English lacks articulation and any rich vocabulary. Sorry, with respect, it's just fairly stereotypical as far as I have noticed.

Interesting you know nothing about the history of fascism.