Another win for Trump (breaking news)

[jas007]

18 minutes ago, thesetat said:

I am familiar with it. Zelenski has been doing it for some time now. Including his own people. He uses hope and desperation as his tactics. But nonetheless, his people are beginning to see him for what he is. Stubborn only to continue being fed money to keep his people dying without any real hope to win back what was taken. 

I don't know about the media in Ukraine, but if it's anything like the media in the Western world, it's pretty much all propaganda. Over and over, the people who consume the media are fed the same lies. And eventually, those lies become the "truth."  It's almost humorous. And once people are brainwashed, they're beyond salvation. 

 

Look at the COVID scam. They had most of the world believing that a deadly virus was circulating that could somehow be stopped by flimsy masks and plastic partitions between booths in restaurants.  One-way isles in grocery stores and six feet of distance between people in public spaces. And god help you if you were caught outside enjoying life without a mask and a vaccine passport. And if you didn't wish to partake in their "vaccinations," you were an agent of death, a killer of grandmothers, on the loose. 

 

Fast forward to today, and you're a "fascist" if you don't subscribe to Zelenskyy's fantasies.  And again, people believe the nonsense because that was how they were programmed. 

[Jingthing]

42 minutes ago, thesetat said:

I am familiar with it. Zelenski has been doing it for some time now. Including his own people. He uses hope and desperation as his tactics. But nonetheless, his people are beginning to see him for what he is. Stubborn only to continue being fed money to keep his people dying without any real hope to win back what was taken. 

Disgraceful lies.

[ChicagoExpat]

7 minutes ago, jas007 said:

I don't know about the media in Ukraine, but if it's anything like the media in the Western world, it's pretty much all propaganda. Over and over, the people who consume the media are fed the same lies. And eventually, those lies become the "truth."  It's almost humorous. And once people are brainwashed, they're beyond salvation. 

 

Look at the COVID scam. They had most of the world believing that a deadly virus was circulating that could somehow be stopped by flimsy masks and plastic partitions between booths in restaurants.  One-way isles in grocery stores and six feet of distance between people in public spaces. And god help you if you were caught outside enjoying life without a mask and a vaccine passport. And if you didn't wish to partake in their "vaccinations," you were an agent of death, a killer of grandmothers, on the loose. 

 

Fast forward to today, and you're a "fascist" if you don't subscribe to Zelenskyy's fantasies.  And again, people believe the nonsense because that was how they were programmed. 

And yet, in a discussion about the Russia/Ukraine issue, it's somehow irrelevant that far worse than Western media, far far worse than Ukrainian media, is the Russian media.  In terms of credibility, independence, and integrity.  Propaganda?  World class.  COVID scam?  They had that, and add in the "Sputnik V" injection that they foisted on a captive audience... with no lab testing!  And if you don't subscribe to Putin's fantasies, you're not only a fascist, you're in jail or dead.

 

Just thought I'd add some perspective FOR THE GUYS WHO DEFINITELY DON'T SUPPORT RUSSIA.

[Jingthing]

Putin doesn’t want peace.

He wants all of Ukraine. 

He wants to erase everything about Ukrainian identity including the people that refuse to be Slavic slaves of Russ.

Putin is a genocidal mass murdering war criminal. 

His soldiers are raping thieving and  child stealing and murdering.

To get him to ever negotiate you need to force him.

Of course Ukrainians will continue to fight.

It's their only hope of national survival.

They have no choice.

It's much more about people than land.

Ukraine would be willing to.give up some land for real security guarantees 

None are currently forthcoming.

 

[thesetat]

Zelenski doesn't want peace. He wants more money and weapons and supplies. Next he will be asking foreign forces to join him in keeping the war at a stale mate. Jeez, as soon as the war is over there can be elections and Zelenski will be out in the cold. 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, thesetat said:

Zelenski doesn't want peace. He wants more money and weapons and supplies. Next he will be asking foreign forces to join him in keeping the war at a stale mate. Jeez, as soon as the war is over there can be elections and Zelenski will be out in the cold. 

Vile lies.

[jas007]

1 hour ago, ChicagoExpat said:

Setting aside the other nonsense in your post, let's focus on this little gem.  The corpses of thousands more dead kids lie at the feet of Russia.  Period.  For all three invasions of Ukraine.

 

Once again, you miss the point.  You're not seeing the big picture.

 

It's not a matter of dead kids lying "at the feet of" Russia, as if the resolution of the issue of fault settles anything. Even if you're right about the fault issue, so what?  No one ever said the world is a fair place. It's not. And in this case, being "right" and continuing a losing battle is simply asking for more grief.  

 

"I'm right and it's all Russia's fault" does not justify killing more kids and endangering the world.  I guess if Zelenskyy wants to take that position and gets away with selling that nonsense to the Ukrainian people, that's what will happen, but why should the USA be involved?  Trump should know better.  

[ChicagoExpat]

16 hours ago, jas007 said:

Once again, you miss the point.  You're not seeing the big picture.

 

It's not a matter of dead kids lying "at the feet of" Russia, as if the resolution of the issue of fault settles anything. Even if you're right about the fault issue, so what?  No one ever said the world is a fair place. It's not. And in this case, being "right" and continuing a losing battle is simply asking for more grief.  

 

"I'm right and it's all Russia's fault" does not justify killing more kids and endangering the world.  I guess if Zelenskyy wants to take that position and gets away with selling that nonsense to the Ukrainian people, that's what will happen, but why should the USA be involved?  Trump should know better.  

I just reject your Putin-love narrative (even though YOU'RE DEFINITELY NOT A RUSSIA SUPPORTER).  You're not right about anything, from your deluded Kremlin take on Zelenskiy to the hopelessness of the situation to the Western MIC driving all this.  Literally every "point" you try to make and every "big picture" you try to paint is a Kremlin lie.

 

Assigning blame is a really important part of settling any conflict and preventing a future conflict.  If a gang of thugs begins to take over your property, and kills your family, and you call for help -- I'm certain you won't be satisfied with your prescription for Ukraine: "let them keep what they took, in the future you can't call for help, and no one is at fault here."

 

A reminder from before:  Feel free to show where I created a boogeyman out of Putin, or argued that he is going to go on to conquer all of Europe, and then the U.S.  And that I'm consciously arguing on behalf of "Anything to sway public opinion and continue the flow of money to the military complex and to those profiting from the corruption."  Because arguing in bad faith and making sh!t up is the norm for SOMEONE WHO IS DEFINITELY NOT A RUSSIA SUPPORTER, but I'll keep pointing it out.

[ChicagoExpat]

16 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Vile lies.

Because you know, it's just absolutely impossible that the President of a country might want to do all he can to prevent the destruction of that same country.  The only explanation for Slavaboos is CoCaInE!  YaChTs!  WESTERN MSM!  WESTERN MIC!  BIIIIIIIIDEN!!!!!!!

 

And literally every single thing they say 1) originates in Kremlin agitprop and 2) is either false or is 1000x worse for the country of their allegiance, Russia.

[ChicagoExpat]

17 hours ago, thesetat said:

Zelenski doesn't want peace. He wants more money and weapons and supplies. Next he will be asking foreign forces to join him in keeping the war at a stale mate. Jeez, as soon as the war is over there can be elections and Zelenski will be out in the cold. 

You're literally painting it as a bad thing that a country's president might ask for "money, weapons, supplies, foreign help" in trying to stave off the destruction of his country at the hands of a brutal, much more powerful invader.  🤣  Do you even realize how dumb that looks?  Your country of allegiance did the same thing when invaded by the 1940s version of themselves.  Was Stalin wrong in asking for help?

Translation:  WHY WON'T UKRAINE SURRENDER?

[jas007]

19 minutes ago, ChicagoExpat said:

You're literally painting it as a bad thing that a country's president might ask for "money, weapons, supplies, foreign help" is trying to stave off the destruction of his country at the hands of a brutal, much more powerful invader.  🤣  Do you even realize how dumb that looks?  Your country of allegiance, Russia, did the same thing when invaded by the 1940s version of themselves.  Was Stalin wrong in asking for help?

Translation:  WHY WON'T UKRAINE SURRENDER?

Let's assume it's only natural for Zelenskyy to ask for help. More money weapons, and supplies. That's totally understandable. Scam money out of whoever you can. That seems to be the game in that part of the world. But,  just because Zelenskyy asks for help doesn't mean the USA should be stupid enough to give it to him. Why waste money on a war that that can't be won?  What's the end game?

 

Let Ukraine deal with Russia however they want.  But the USA and its money and war materials need not be involved. The USA can no longer afford to be the world's policeman.  

[ChicagoExpat]

1 minute ago, jas007 said:

Let's assume it's only natural for Zelenskyy to ask for help. More money weapons, and supplies. That's totally understandable. Scam money out of whoever you can. That seems to be the game in that part of the world. But,  just because Zelenskyy asks for help doesn't mean the USA should be stupid enough to give it to him. Why waste money on a war that that can't be won?  What's the end game?

 

Let Ukraine deal with Russia however they want.  But the USA and its money and war materials need not be involved. The USA can no longer afford to be the world's policeman.  

So let's point out the arguing in bad faith before the ink dries on this one.  You agree that it's natural for a President to try and prevent the destruction of his country at the hands of a brutal, fascist, more powerful invader but then go right to calling that a scam.

 

Always arguing in bad faith.  And a key part of your arguing in bad faith:  YOU'RE DEFINITELY NOT A RUSSIA SUPPORTER.

 

A reminder from before:  Feel free to show where I created a boogeyman out of Putin, or argued that he is going to go on to conquer all of Europe, and then the U.S.  And that I'm consciously arguing on behalf of "Anything to sway public opinion and continue the flow of money to the military complex and to those profiting from the corruption."  Because arguing in bad faith and making sh!t up is the norm for SOMEONE WHO IS DEFINITELY NOT A RUSSIA SUPPORTER, but I'll keep pointing it out.