United States credit rating

[TedG]

1 hour ago, cjinchiangrai said:

Once everyone sells their T-bills and start trading oil in Euros and Yuan, the collapse will really kick in. Trump is a moron and it is not Bidens fault.

Biden didn't help.  After the all the COVID spending Biden and the dems piled on more spending. 

[RuamRudy]

26 minutes ago, TedG said:

 

You are making up numbers. 

Which numbers did I make up? 

[TedG]

Just now, RuamRudy said:

Which numbers did I make up? 

 

Both numbers.  

 

The total US electorate in 2024 was 239 million people.

 

Total registered voters was 168 million.

 

The total vote count in 2024 was 156 million.   Trump received 49.8% of the total vote.

 

Do you see your errors? 

[TedG]

On 5/16/2025 at 10:53 PM, RJRS1301 said:

Oh he and his sycophants have already begun the personal attacks on individuals within Moody's & their professionalism 

The "stable many times bankrupted genuis" is worse than a 12 yr old school child, name calling

Very stable

This is the same agency that sold rating that led to the 2008 crash. 

[jas007]

13 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

A what if scenario, that isn't going to happen in out life time ... but to answer...

You're probably right about that, I hope. But it is a very real possibility.

 

Have you ever been in an area that had a power blackout?  One minute, everyone is in the grocery store, ready to check out.  And then, nothing works.  And so you leave your groceries in the cart and drive home. And on the way home, no traffic lights. And when you get home, no electricity. No nothing.  That happened to me one time. Fortunately, the situation resolved after a few hours, but what if it hadn't?  No one was really prepared. 

[bubblegum]

21 minutes ago, jas007 said:

You're probably right about that, I hope. But it is a very real possibility.

 

Have you ever been in an area that had a power blackout?  One minute, everyone is in the grocery store, ready to check out.  And then, nothing works.  And so you leave your groceries in the cart and drive home. And on the way home, no traffic lights. And when you get home, no electricity. No nothing.  That happened to me one time. Fortunately, the situation resolved after a few hours, but what if it hadn't?  No one was really prepared. 

Clearly you do not live in Thailand.

[jas007]

15 minutes ago, bubblegum said:

Clearly you do not live in Thailand.

Yes, I live in Thailand, and yes, I've experienced power outages and internet outages.  But everyone knows those are just temporary glitches. Small localized outages. Just the other day, my internet went out. It was fine on my phone, but the 5G in my condo wouldn't work. I finally just turned off the computer and went to lay around the pool. By the time I got back, everything was working again. 

 

One time in Phuket, the power was out for the better part of a day.  But they told everyone that was going to happen, in advance. They were doing some work on the electricity in the area. 

 

In America, that kind of thing doesn't happen, but for a natural disaster or a grid failure.  Hurricanes, tornados, floods.  All understandable.  

 

But sometimes, it's more widespread and can mean trouble.  Anyone remember the 1977 blackouts on the East Coast? Lightning hit a power station somewhere and a cascading effect shut down a large section of the power grid.  It was a mess. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[cjinchiangrai]

1 hour ago, TedG said:

Biden didn't help.  After the all the COVID spending Biden and the dems piled on more spending. 

The republicans run up the debt and the Dems pay it down. Turn off Fox.

[TedG]

3 minutes ago, cjinchiangrai said:

The republicans run up the debt and the Dems pay it down. Turn off Fox.

This not even true.   

[cjinchiangrai]

[spidermike007]

10 hours ago, jas007 said:

In there grand scheme of things, Trump will be but a footnote.  Moreover, nobody cares about Moodys and their political stunt. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand the current Western banking system, the widespread use of fiat currencies, and the fact that countries using fiat currencies are bankrupt, but for their real assets. The exception to that general rule is the USA and its ability to issue the world reserve currency.  The existing system needs US dollars to function, and that equates to value.  So while the USA may be "bankrupt," that state of affairs can continue for the foreseeable future, and long after Trump is gone from the scene.  

Maybe for another five or ten years. Maybe. The empire is waning quickly. 

[RuamRudy]

2 hours ago, TedG said:

 

Both numbers.  

 

The total US electorate in 2024 was 239 million people.

 

Total registered voters was 168 million.

 

The total vote count in 2024 was 156 million.   Trump received 49.8% of the total vote.

 

Do you see your errors? 

 

It looks like the total electorate is hard to pin down - 245 million according to this site:

https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2024-11-15/how-many-people-didnt-vote-in-the-2024-election

 

But despite both of us being incorrect, I was much further away from that number than you were. 

 

The number we a both in agreement about, however, is the 77.3 million who voted for Trump.

 

So the picture is actually even less impressive than I had erroneously suggested - he didn't even get a third of the electorate to back him. 

[spidermike007]

2 hours ago, TedG said:

 

What do you mean by “unreliable” at this point? 

With a leader like the goon, nobody can count on the US anymore. He is far too unpredictable and unsteady. 

[save the frogs]

Didn't Trump just secure 2 Trillion dollars in investments from various Middle Eastern countries?

 

Or is it propaganda?

 

He is really just playing golf? 

 

Your data might be outdated. 

 

 

[jas007]

12 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Maybe for another five or ten years. Maybe. The empire is waning quickly. 

That seems to be the prevailing wisdom.  But the people that think like that seem to be focused on the US dollar as the world reserve currency.  But will it collapse all at once?  Or just fade away?  

 

If history is any guide, it'll just fade away.  Little by little, it will become less relevant. 

 

My only hope is that I won't be around for any sudden collapse. 

[LosLobo]

16 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

Didn't Trump just secure 2 Trillion dollars in investments from various Middle Eastern countries?

 

Or is it propaganda?

 

He is really just playing golf? 

 

Your data might be outdated. 

 

Hey Save the Frogs, quick reality check on that “$2 trillion Trump deal” you’re hyping up like it’s divine intervention.

Yeah, Trump announced $2 trillion in Middle East investments — sounds impressive, but here’s what’s really going on:

• A lot of it isn’t new. These deals were already in the works under Biden. Trump’s just rebranding them, as usual.

• Most are non-binding. They’re not real contracts — more like flashy headlines with no guarantee.

• The real winners? Defense contractors, Gulf royals, and Trump himself (who reportedly added $3 billion to his wealth). Regular Americans? Still waiting to see a dime.

• And yes — he spent half the trip golfing. That’s not leadership. That’s leisure.

This isn’t some economic miracle. It’s exaggerated propaganda. And you’re treating every handshake and photo op like it’s the Second Coming. You’re being marketed to — not informed.

[save the frogs]

11 hours ago, LosLobo said:

 

Hey Save the Frogs, quick reality check on that “$2 trillion Trump deal” you’re hyping up like it’s divine intervention.

Yeah, Trump announced $2 trillion in Middle East investments — sounds impressive, but here’s what’s really going on:

• A lot of it isn’t new. These deals were already in the works under Biden. Trump’s just rebranding them, as usual.

• Most are non-binding. They’re not real contracts — more like flashy headlines with no guarantee.

• The real winners? Defense contractors, Gulf royals, and Trump himself (who reportedly added $3 billion to his wealth). Regular Americans? Still waiting to see a dime.

• And yes — he spent half the trip golfing. That’s not leadership. That’s leisure.

This isn’t some economic miracle. It’s exaggerated propaganda. And you’re treating every handshake and photo op like it’s the Second Coming. You’re being marketed to — not informed.

 

How can you be so sure that you are not being misinformed?

 

How do you know he was playing golf? You were there? 

 

 

 

[spidermike007]

22 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

 

How can you be so sure that you are not being misinformed?

 

How do you know he was playing golf? You were there? 

 

 

 

Because he always chooses golf over leadership. That is just who he is. 

[LosLobo]

26 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

 

How can you be so sure that you are not being misinformed?

 

How do you know he was playing golf? You were there? 

I’ve got the receipts. All you’ve got is his word — and we both know what that’s worth.

[BeastOfBodmin]

It's gone up and down a few times this Millennium: United States federal government credit-rating downgrades. I don't know who was in power at those times.

[candide]

57 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

 

Hey Save the Frogs, quick reality check on that “$2 trillion Trump deal” you’re hyping up like it’s divine intervention.

Yeah, Trump announced $2 trillion in Middle East investments — sounds impressive, but here’s what’s really going on:

• A lot of it isn’t new. These deals were already in the works under Biden. Trump’s just rebranding them, as usual.

• Most are non-binding. They’re not real contracts — more like flashy headlines with no guarantee.

• The real winners? Defense contractors, Gulf royals, and Trump himself (who reportedly added $3 billion to his wealth). Regular Americans? Still waiting to see a dime.

• And yes — he spent half the trip golfing. That’s not leadership. That’s leisure.

This isn’t some economic miracle. It’s exaggerated propaganda. And you’re treating every handshake and photo op like it’s the Second Coming. You’re being marketed to — not informed.

Another issue is that Saudi Arabia is  currently unable to finance it at current oil prices. 

 

Saudi Arabia promised to invest $600 billion in the U.S. during President Donald Trump’s trip there. But the kingdom is currently running a deficit, and boosting its spending to promised levels would be extremely difficult unless the price of oil goes higher—complicating Trump’s math.....

 

.....As it is, $600 billion is roughly 60% of Saudi Arabia’s GDP and about 40% of its current foreign assets, according to Tim Callen, a visiting fellow at the Arab Gulf States Institute and former IMF official.

 

https://fortune.com/2025/05/15/saudi-arabia-600-billion-oil-trump/

[jas007]

5 minutes ago, candide said:

Another issue is that Saudi Arabia is  currently unable to finance it at current oil prices. 

 

Saudi Arabia promised to invest $600 billion in the U.S. during President Donald Trump’s trip there. But the kingdom is currently running a deficit, and boosting its spending to promised levels would be extremely difficult unless the price of oil goes higher—complicating Trump’s math.....

 

.....As it is, $600 billion is roughly 60% of Saudi Arabia’s GDP and about 40% of its current foreign assets, according to Tim Callen, a visiting fellow at the Arab Gulf States Institute and former IMF official.

 

https://fortune.com/2025/05/15/saudi-arabia-600-billion-oil-trump/

It's not as if all that money will be invested tomorrow, right?  It's a long term strategy.  

 

As for the price of oil going higher?  No problem.  Of course it will. Let Trump be Trump and watch him continue to destroy the value of the US dollar.  Of course the price of oil will increase.  Or rather, the purchasing power of the dollar will decrease.  Either way, the Saudis can afford it. 

 

 

[LosLobo]

7 minutes ago, jas007 said:

17 minutes ago, candide said:

Another issue is that Saudi Arabia is  currently unable to finance it at current oil prices. 

 

Saudi Arabia promised to invest $600 billion in the U.S. during President Donald Trump’s trip there. But the kingdom is currently running a deficit, and boosting its spending to promised levels would be extremely difficult unless the price of oil goes higher—complicating Trump’s math.....

 

.....As it is, $600 billion is roughly 60% of Saudi Arabia’s GDP and about 40% of its current foreign assets, according to Tim Callen, a visiting fellow at the Arab Gulf States Institute and former IMF official.

 

https://fortune.com/2025/05/15/saudi-arabia-600-billion-oil-trump/

It's not as if all that money will be invested tomorrow, right?  It's a long term strategy.  

 

As for the price of oil going higher?  No problem.  Of course it will. Let Trump be Trump and watch him continue to destroy the value of the US dollar.  Of course the price of oil will increase.  Or rather, the purchasing power of the dollar will decrease.  Either way, the Saudis can afford it. 

So let me get this straight — Saudi Arabia, which is running a deficit, is supposed to invest $600B (60% of its GDP) based on a Trump handshake and the hope that oil prices magically spike…

…but at the same time, Trump’s "drill baby drill" policy is supposed to drive oil prices down?

You can’t have it both ways. Either oil needs to stay expensive so the Saudis can afford this fantasy deal, or it gets cheap — and their entire economy, and this investment, falls apart. Which is it?