Where would we be if trump didn’t kill the nuclear agreement with Iran

[Tug]

Sometimes I wonder were we would be now if trump had honored the agreement made by thoughtful world leaders.we all know the Iranians are  sick  of the mullas. if the sanctions had been lifted and the mullas acted up they could have been reinstated instantly…..then I think you definitely would have seen the population revolt.they also would have been less likely to supply putin with weapons.less likely to have supported the murdering killers hisbolla terrorists.

I know a lot of what if’s but the fact of the matter is now the only leverage we have left is to make war.If you bomb a people it tends to unite them not divide them….do not conflate or assume I personally support Iran I definitely don’t I just think it was a blunder to scrap the deal we wouldent be here.

[0ffshore360]

In an honest opinion I would suggest that regardless of whoever was POTUS that the same or similar outcome would have eventuated, 

As is becoming increasingly made clear it is the dictate of those who cling to the control of the global administration of wealth that determines Govt.  policies even when in total contradiction of claimed electoral public mandate.

The real danger is in the presumption of the contrived right to dominate/ subjugate another nation for anything other than demonstrable immediate threat.

Iran had/has been complying with the provisions it agreed to  while in pursuit of peaceful nuclear domestic energy development even after Trump so dramatically complied  with background directives to revoke participation on non evidential grounds.

As a nation that has survived the imposition of theological social constraints and sanctions that have only inflicted/constrained the general population and yet has developed and is currently demonstrating a capacity to defy yet again an assault by a US backed counter theological enemy is there any doubt as to the resolve ?

Is it so easy to forget the historical US supported  war between Iraq and Iran in which the US  supplied the ingredients for chemical weapons which later provided a basis for a fictional excuse to take  US dominance of Iraq and a lingering  hatred for having failed to dominate Iran?

The Persian Iranians have a united resolve to retain Nation in spite of Mullahs or the etc's !

 

 

 

 

[frank83628]

1 hour ago, Tug said:

Sometimes I wonder were we would be now if trump had honored the agreement made by thoughtful world leaders.we all know the Iranians are  sick  of the mullas. if the sanctions had been lifted and the mullas acted up they could have been reinstated instantly…..then I think you definitely would have seen the population revolt.they also would have been less likely to supply putin with weapons.less likely to have supported the murdering killers hisbolla terrorists.

I know a lot of what if’s but the fact of the matter is now the only leverage we have left is to make war.If you bomb a people it tends to unite them not divide them….do not conflate or assume I personally support Iran I definitely don’t I just think it was a blunder to scrap the deal we wouldent be here.

And thats why you Muricans are hated around the world. Seem it hasnt bothered you until 2016-20 and the first few months of 25.

Biden was in the hot seat for 4 years, why didnt he reinstate it?

[Patong2021]

1 hour ago, Tug said:

Sometimes I wonder were we would be now if trump had honored the agreement made by thoughtful world leaders.we all know the Iranians are  sick  of the mullas. if the sanctions had been lifted and the mullas acted up they could have been reinstated instantly…..then I think you definitely would have seen the population revolt.they also would have been less likely to supply putin with weapons.less likely to have supported the murdering killers hisbolla terrorists.

I know a lot of what if’s but the fact of the matter is now the only leverage we have left is to make war.If you bomb a people it tends to unite them not divide them….do not conflate or assume I personally support Iran I definitely don’t I just think it was a blunder to scrap the deal we wouldent be here.

 

You start off with the assumption that;

1. There was an "agreement,

2. Trump  did not honour an agreement

3. There was an agreement made by "thoughtful world leaders".

 

There was NEVER an agreement. There was never any treaty. There was a  Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA) that was not even signed.  How can you call the JCPOA an agreement when it was not? 

 

JCPOA held that in return for Iran limiting its nuclear activities, sanctions would be reduced. The plan held that the USA would be allowed to verify every 90 days, that Iran was respecting the plan. Israel provided  evidence that Iran was not respecting the  plan conditions. The UAE and Saudi Arabia agreed with Israel and were opposed to the plan. The Trump administration withdrew from the Plan and proposed that a new more appropriate agreement would be used.

 

The "thoughtful" (sic) world leaders who pushed the original plan were more interested in accessing the  oil and gas, and Iran consumer markets than they were in  limiting Iran's nuclear weapons program. India, Singapore,Germany, Netherlands, Turkey, Italy, France, UAE  and South Africa had significant  investments in  Iran prior to the financial sanctions.  All of them except for UAE wanted the financial sanctions lifted. The plan was thoughtful if you mean it was intended to  provide an excuse for these foreign nations to  invest in a despotic human rights abusing  totalitarian state.

 

The only thoughtful person was President Trump who saw the Plan for what it was, a sham and a cover for profiteers.

 

[Tug]

6 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

 

You start off with the assumption that;

1. There was an "agreement,

2. Trump  did not honour an agreement

3. There was an agreement made by "thoughtful world leaders".

 

There was NEVER an agreement. There was never any treaty. There was a  Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA) that was not even signed.  How can you call the JCPOA an agreement when it was not? 

 

JCPOA held that in return for Iran limiting its nuclear activities, sanctions would be reduced. The plan held that the USA would be allowed to verify every 90 days, that Iran was respecting the plan. Israel provided  evidence that Iran was not respecting the  plan conditions. The UAE and Saudi Arabia agreed with Israel and were opposed to the plan. The Trump administration withdrew from the Plan and proposed that a new more appropriate agreement would be used.

 

The "thoughtful" (sic) world leaders who pushed the original plan were more interested in accessing the  oil and gas, and Iran consumer markets than they were in  limiting Iran's nuclear weapons program. India, Singapore,Germany, Netherlands, Turkey, Italy, France, UAE  and South Africa had significant  investments in  Iran prior to the financial sanctions.  All of them except for UAE wanted the financial sanctions lifted. The plan was thoughtful if you mean it was intended to  provide an excuse for these foreign nations to  invest in a despotic human rights abusing  totalitarian state.

 

The only thoughtful person was President Trump who saw the Plan for what it was, a sham and a cover for profiteers.

 

There was an agreement with many signatories there was inspections and verifications trump killed it to stoke the hate in his base.so all the options the agreement would have been available if it was honored are now mute.as usual trump sticking to form is no dealmaker he’s just a bully no more no less.

[jimmybcool]

This is all a pipe dream.  Iran was going to continue development of a nuclear weapon regardless of who was in office or what "thoughtful world leaders" delusions about them were.  

 

Pretty sure no matter what Trump did or did not do this war between Israel and Iran has been coming as Israel can not allow Iran a nuclear weapon.  Really is a weird take on history to think Trump is the cause of this war.

 

[Mike_Hunt]

9 hours ago, Tug said:

Sometimes I wonder were we would be now if trump had honored the agreement made by thoughtful world leaders.we all know the Iranians are  sick  of the mullas. if the sanctions had been lifted and the mullas acted up they could have been reinstated instantly…..then I think you definitely would have seen the population revolt.they also would have been less likely to supply putin with weapons.less likely to have supported the murdering killers hisbolla terrorists.

I know a lot of what if’s but the fact of the matter is now the only leverage we have left is to make war.If you bomb a people it tends to unite them not divide them….do not conflate or assume I personally support Iran I definitely don’t I just think it was a blunder to scrap the deal we wouldent be here.

Thoughtful world leaders made me LOL.

[blaze master]

42 minutes ago, Tug said:

There was an agreement with many signatories there was inspections and verifications trump killed it to stoke the hate in his base.so all the options the agreement would have been available if it was honored are now mute.as usual trump sticking to form is no dealmaker he’s just a bully no more no less.

 

You received a complete rebuttal yet keep on digging in. 

 

 

[blaze master]

11 minutes ago, Mike_Hunt said:

Thoughtful world leaders made me LOL.

 

X2

[Social Media]

Comment on moderation removed @KhaoHom

[stevenl]

34 minutes ago, blaze master said:

 

You received a complete rebuttal yet keep on digging in. 

 

 

Because the rebuttal showed a earp vision of facts, written entirely from the Israeli perspective.

[blaze master]

14 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Because the rebuttal showed a earp vision of facts, written entirely from the Israeli perspective.

 

Ok if you say so.

[Mike_Hunt]

22 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Because the rebuttal showed a earp vision of facts, written entirely from the Israeli perspective.

Why not give us the other perspective. 

[stevenl]

Good analysis here.

 

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Joint-Comprehensive-Plan-of-Action

[JimHuaHin]

In a much better world.

[frank83628]

3 hours ago, blaze master said:

 

You received a complete rebuttal yet keep on digging in. 

 

 

Nothing else matters.... everything is Trumps fault

[stevenl]

25 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

Nothing else matters.... everything is Trumps fault

Unfortunately many things are.

[Briggsy]

The "agreement" was time-limited so it would have expired by now. 

[NanLaew]

13 hours ago, Tug said:

we all know the Iranians are  sick  of the mullas

 

we do?

[Hanaguma]

In the end, it will come down to this:

 

1. Iran, you can't have nukes. We will make sure.

2. In return, sanctions will be lifted and billions of tasty Dollars and Euros will flow into your country.  

3. The diaspora of Iranian refugees will return and lend their expertise to rebuilding the country.

 

And just like that, Iran can rejoin the community of nations, prosper, and enjoy freedom.  Remove the shackles of the mad mullahs and the Iranian people will see to the rest.

[Tug]

2 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

In the end, it will come down to this:

 

1. Iran, you can't have nukes. We will make sure.

2. In return, sanctions will be lifted and billions of tasty Dollars and Euros will flow into your country.  

3. The diaspora of Iranian refugees will return and lend their expertise to rebuilding the country.

 

And just like that, Iran can rejoin the community of nations, prosper, and enjoy freedom.  Remove the shackles of the mad mullahs and the Iranian people will see to the rest.

Ahhh that’s kinda what we had before this mess with inspections et al with the threat of renewed sanctions if they misbehave…….trumps blunder by Welching on the deal removed all of those points now we have another war.sad 

[Captain Flack]

Troll post removed. @frank83628. This is an open forum for everyone. Discuss the topic and stop trying to censor opinion based on you assumption of nationality. Final reminder.

 

[Patong2021]

5 hours ago, Tug said:

There was an agreement with many signatories there was inspections and verifications trump killed it to stoke the hate in his base.so all the options the agreement would have been available if it was honored are now mute.as usual trump sticking to form is no dealmaker he’s just a bully no more no less.

 

In respect to  signatories, I base my position that there were no "signatories" on the  statement of  Secretary of State Kerry's Assistant Secretary, Bureau of Legislative Affairs, Julia Frifield's statement to Congress and to John Pompeo when he was a member of the House of Representatives. She was speaking on behalf of the Secretary of State.

The JCPOA is not a treaty nor an executive agreement and it is not a signed agreement.   Please see her letter     https://hrvoices.org/assets/attachments/documents/11.24.2015.state.dept.letter.jcpoa.pdf

 

I cannot speak to Mr. trump's motives, but I believe he was right. Iran did not  intend to comply with the intent of the   undertaking, and it said so.  Iran's deputy foreign minister said on July 14, 2015 that the recently reached nuclear deal with the world powers did not include limitations on Iran’s weapons capabilities or missile power. "We have told them [the P5+1 world powers] in the negotiations that we will supply arms to anyone and anywhere necessary and will import weapons from anywhere we want and we have clarified this during the negotiations,” Abbas Araqchi told Iranian state TV.

A few days after that  Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei reinforced that position,

https://www.timesofisrael.com/irans-deputy-fm-we-told-world-powers-well-keep-arming-our-allies/

 

The Iranians did not consider themselves bound by the agreement.

Javad Zarif, Iran’s foreign minister, said  that the United Nations version of the nuclear deal—which was recently approved by the Security Council—leaves all restrictions on Iran’s ballistic missile program as "non-binding."

https://freebeacon.com/national-security/iran-vows-to-buy-weapons-anytime-anywhere/

 

I believe it is unfair to   say that Mr. Trump did not stick to the agreement, when the Iranians were stating within a week of agreeing to the JCPOA, that they did not have to comply. That's why the agreement was a farce.

[Patong2021]

31 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

In the end, it will come down to this:

 

1. Iran, you can't have nukes. We will make sure.

2. In return, sanctions will be lifted and billions of tasty Dollars and Euros will flow into your country.  

3. The diaspora of Iranian refugees will return and lend their expertise to rebuilding the country.

 

And just like that, Iran can rejoin the community of nations, prosper, and enjoy freedom.  Remove the shackles of the mad mullahs and the Iranian people will see to the rest.

 

The diaspora of refugees  cannot return to iran because the people who forced them out  will still be in power. A large number of the Iranian refugees  faced  death threats from the Iranian government.

[Hummin]

The big chess game is unpredictable with to many players.

 

One move makes a chain reaction we could not forseen

 

No doubt Israel acts like "God's Fist" (philosophical/metaphorically  ment) in Middle East. 

 

A deal with Iran is only worth the paper written on. 

 

 

However Fredric Forsyth had an great book called The Fist of god. Look it up

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fist_of_God

[Hanaguma]

5 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

 

The diaspora of refugees  cannot return to iran because the people who forced them out  will still be in power. A large number of the Iranian refugees  faced  death threats from the Iranian government.

Perhaps, it depends on who is in power when this whole kerfuffle is finished. At the least, they might invest in the country if it agrees to basic principles like the rule of law.

[Patong2021]

11 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Perhaps, it depends on who is in power when this whole kerfuffle is finished. At the least, they might invest in the country if it agrees to basic principles like the rule of law.

 

True, but it requires a purge of the mullahs and the Iranian Guard.

[Hanaguma]

3 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

 

True, but it requires a purge of the mullahs and the Iranian Guard.

As long as the "West" doesn't try to do it themselves, I am OK with it. Let the people in Iran figure it out for themselves. The Guard has been largely decapitated.  

If they choose to continue under the Islamic State, that is their business. As long as they stop sponsoring terrorists and trying to make an A-bomb.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, Briggsy said:

The "agreement" was time-limited so it would have expired by now. 

But it would have been re-negotiated by now.

[seajae]

Once again we see the democrat pile on  to blame trump, shows that the real problem is the democrats that cannot handle being second to anyone so start up their totally BS actions to blame trump. Really have to wonder at their tiny brains that refuse to accept the truth and instead push their biased garbage onto everyone, how pathetic they are if all they can do is sit around dreaming up crap yet they refuse to live in their so called great country but bag it constantly, iran, the la riots, california, illegals, mutilating children, its all trumps fault when its the dems causing/pushing it all to happen. Iran is run by despots, they use their BS relion as a weapon against their own people as well as any other country that doesnt agree with them, the best thing that could hasppen to iran is their leaders to all be removed pemanently, israel has been doing a good job of it, now its time for the  mullahs to next on their list