SWIFT-WISE Breakeven?

[NoDisplayName]

I've read WISE is better for small amounts, but fees add up.

SWIFT should be better for larger sums.

Is this true?  If so, where is the breakeven?

 

I was thinking of bringing over US$60,000, or approximately 2 million baht.

USD Exchange rate at Bangkok Bank 6/20 was 32.30, the Wise rate was 32.80.

 

Swift fee from a US bank was $35, (assume no additional correspondent bank fees).

Deposit fee at Bangkok Bank is 500 baht.

Would receive 1,936,370 baht after fees.

 

Sending cash to Wise via ACH is free in the US.

Wise fee would be $325, discounted over GBP20,000 equivalent to $291.

A single transfer would receive 1,958,455 baht after fees.

 

Sending in batches of $10,000, Wise fee is $55, receive total 1,957,176.

Sending in batches of $5,000, Wise fee is $28, receive total 1,956,979.

Not taking into account fee discount if transfer >GBP20,000 equivalent in one month.

 

Transferring US$240,000:

Wise transfers 4x $60,000 results in 7,833,820 baht.

One Swift transfer of $240,000 results in 7,750,369 baht.

 

[bamnutsak]

27 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

USD Exchange rate at Bangkok Bank 6/20 was 32.30

 

TT rate (which is what SWIFT transfers get converted) was 32.63 at BBL on 20 June.

 

https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/personal/other-services/view-rates/foreign-exchange-rates

 

 

[gamb00ler]

40 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

I was thinking of bringing over US$60,000, or approximately 2 million baht.

USD Exchange rate at Bangkok Bank 6/20 was 32.30, the Wise rate was 32.80.

You will do better to use the effective exchange rate for both methods for comparison.

Thai banks deduct .25% to receive SWIFT funds with a minimum of 300 and max of 500 ฿.

Use the WISE web site to see the effective rate when getting a quote to send funds.

Spreadsheets are great for this type of analysis. @Pib posted results of comparison a few years ago.

 

If you have a substantial balance, Schwab and Fidelity may waive the SWIFT fees.  Sometimes they do that automatically and sometimes they will do so if you request it.  It never hurts to ask.

 

To eliminate the WISE fee for ACH you need to 'push' the funds (initiate the transfer from your bank) to your WISE account using ACH.

 

When the $/฿ rate is rising the Thai banks will lag the WISE rate and when that rate is falling the spread between Thai banks and WISE can narrow.  Unfortunately, you cannot lock in the Thai bank rate at the  moment you initiate the transfer.  Your funds will get the rate in effect when the SWIFT process delivers them to the Thai bank.

 

 

[NoDisplayName]

8 minutes ago, bamnutsak said:

 

TT rate (which is what SWIFT transfers get converted) was 32.63 at BBL on 20 June.

 

https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/personal/other-services/view-rates/foreign-exchange-rates

 

That page doesn't show TT rate.

But I'll assume that is correct.

Swift would give me 1,956,158, still down 2000 baht.

 

3 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

Schwab and Fidelity may waive the SWIFT fees.

Yes, I have free Swift from Fidelity, but there will likely be a correspondent bank fee added.

[Upnotover]

6 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

That page doesn't show TT rate.

 

[NoDisplayName]

4 minutes ago, Upnotover said:

 

 

Ah................screen formatting.

I only have the first two columns.

Scrolled way down to below SAR to find a slider bar, greyed out and not functional.

Changed screen settings and the other columns appeared.

Thanks.

 

 

[bamnutsak]

11 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

That page doesn't show TT rate.

Yes, it does.

 

12 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

es, I have free Swift from Fidelity, but there will likely be a correspondent bank fee added.

 

No. Fidelity does not charge any SWIFT fee, nor does its correspondent bank JP MORGAN CHASEBANK N.A.

 

 

[JohnnyBD]

On 4/3/2025 at 4:12 PM, JohnnyBD said:

Made $2,400 USD xfer via SWIFT (no outgoing fee with Chase Bank due to my relationship) to Bangkok Bank minus .0025 incoming fee of $6.00 = $2,394 converted at 34.14 = 81,731 THB for SWIFT.

 

Wise was 81,614 at the same time.

 

This was an old post when I did a comparison. It worked out about the same for me.

[NoDisplayName]

7 minutes ago, JohnnyBD said:

This was an old post when I did a comparison. It worked out about the same for me.

 

Yes, except for the additional ACH fee pulling from your bank.

Without that, you'd have been slightly ahead with Wise.

[JohnnyBD]

1 hour ago, NoDisplayName said:

I was thinking of bringing over US$60,000, or approximately 2 million baht.

USD Exchange rate at Bangkok Bank 6/20 was 32.30, the Wise rate was 32.80

The Bangkok Bank TT Buying Rate on June 20 is showing 32.70, not 32.30. I get the TT Buying Rate when I convert to THB. Where did you get rhe 32.30 rate from?

[bamnutsak]

For me, right now... $60,000 USD

 

SWIFT  1,957,600.00

WISE  1,961,925.80

[bamnutsak]

4 minutes ago, JohnnyBD said:

The Bangkok Bank TT Buying Rate on June 20 is showing 32.70, not 32.30. See pic attached.

 

Later/current price is 32.63 on Friday at 16:16

[JohnnyBD]

21 minutes ago, bamnutsak said:

 

Later/current price is 32.63 on Friday at 16:16

i was using the earlier 13:55 price. He's using 32.30 rate in example. That rate is not correct.

[bamnutsak]

1 minute ago, JohnnyBD said:

He's using 32.30 rate in example. That rate is not correct.

 

Yes, many people already highlighted the discrepancy.

 

 

[gamb00ler]

59 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

Yes, I have free Swift from Fidelity, but there will likely be a correspondent bank fee added.

I haven't used Fidelity for any transfers but SWIFT from Schwab has not had any fees from a correspondent bank.  Hopefully there are other AN posters that have used Fidelity for SWIFT to TH that will comment.

[gamb00ler]

39 minutes ago, bamnutsak said:

For me, right now... $60,000 USD

 

SWIFT  1,957,600.00

WISE  1,961,925.80

Since the TH banks haven't yet updated their TT rates since Friday ... and the WISE rate has risen ⅓% since 6AM this morning ... it is not a fair comparison.

 

Oooops... BBL just updated about 15 minutes ago... now paying 32.75/US$ yielding 1,964,500 afer deducting 500 fee but SWIFT fee assumed to be 0

[bamnutsak]

5 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

Since the TH banks haven't yet updated their TT rates since Friday ... and the WISE rate has risen ⅓% since 6AM this morning ... it is not a fair comparison.

 

Oooops... BBL just updated about 15 minutes ago... now paying 32.75/US$ yielding 1,964,500 afer deducting 500 fee but SWIFT fee assumed to be 0

 

 

Now, reflecting current quotes for me...

 

SWIFT  1,964,500.00

WISE    1,966,403.04

 

 

[gamb00ler]

7 minutes ago, bamnutsak said:

 

 

Now, reflecting current quotes for me...

 

SWIFT  1,964,500.00

WISE    1,966,403.04

 

 

To get the WISE quote what funding choice do you  use?

 

Using funds already in your WISE account always gives the best net result.  I don't have enough in my WISE account to get a quote using that as a source.

[KhunBENQ]

1 hour ago, gamb00ler said:

To get the WISE quote what funding choice do you  use?

 

Using funds already in your WISE account always gives the best net result.  I don't have enough in my WISE account to get a quote using that as a source.

There is a way in the app to check total amounts/options without having the funds ready.

The following result (from funds). Be aware that there were steep rate increases over the weekend.

 

[bamnutsak]

2 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

Yes, I have free Swift from Fidelity

 

Are you currently in Thailand? Or the U.S.?

 

Have you already set up a first-party standing wire transfer order with Fidelity and your Bangkok Bank account? I had to, done in person at a Fidelity branch in the U.S. as this form requires a medallion signature guarantee.

 

I can "see" my BBL account in my list of available transfers, but I cannot make a transfer online (web or app), I have to call in each time.

 

 

If not, you may have to do this before you can make a transfer. Obviously, check with Fidelity.

 

[gamb00ler]

1 hour ago, KhunBENQ said:

There is a way in the app to check total amounts/options without having the funds ready.

I did find out that when I request a quote using a domestic wire to move the money to WISE, they also showed me the quote for using money already in a WISE account.  The option is shown but greyed out.

[treetops]

BBL set the exchange rate 4 times on the OP's date.  At the highest (32.7) then the Swift transfer would have beaten the Wise one using the values given in the OP.

 

I must admit I was surprised when I read the post as for USD transfers I have read on here in the past that Swift was better above about 10K USD (fairly recently) and around 20K USD (older thread) due to the low spread used by Thai banks in USD exchanges.

 

Maybe Wise fees have changed to become more competitive since these posts as the spread at BBL remains the same at 0.3, although slightly more as a percentage due to the rate used since I last looked at it.

[gamb00ler]

36 minutes ago, treetops said:

BBL set the exchange rate 4 times on the OP's date.  At the highest (32.7) then the Swift transfer would have beaten the Wise one using the values given in the OP.

 

I must admit I was surprised when I read the post as for USD transfers I have read on here in the past that Swift was better above about 10K USD (fairly recently) and around 20K USD (older thread) due to the low spread used by Thai banks in USD exchanges.

 

Maybe Wise fees have changed to become more competitive since these posts as the spread at BBL remains the same at 0.3, although slightly more as a percentage due to the rate used since I last looked at it.

I notice that now WISE gives a discount for larger transfers.

For 60K US$ their net rate(after fees) is 32.78, for 30K US$ it is 32.766, for 10K US$ you get 32.759.... not much of a discount.  Those rates assume you are transferring funds that are already in your WISE account.  Rates will be worse for any other method of funding the transfer.

[NoDisplayName]

Fidelity requires the printing off and the filling out and the mailing in of a bank wire authorization, which requires a medallion signature guarantee, which I believe is unavailable in thailand.

 

https://www.fidelity.com/bin-public/060_www_fidelity_com/documents/bank-wire-form-standalone.pdf

 

Just contacted Schwab, can send a SWIFT online, no maximum, and no correspondent bank between Schwab and Bangkok Bank.  Swift fee is $15 when done online.

 

I do have a standing order with Schwab to transfer cash to my wife's international account.  Gives us the option of either of us remitting funds.

 

I am able to push/pull ACH transfers at Schwab online with Fidelity and Navy and Wise, no fees.

[NoDisplayName]

3 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

I notice that now WISE gives a discount for larger transfers.

For 60K US$ their net rate(after fees) is 32.78, for 30K US$ it is 32.766, for 10K US$ you get 32.759.... not much of a discount.  Those rates assume you are transferring funds that are already in your WISE account.  Rates will be worse for any other method of funding the transfer.

 

Sending $60K, Wise reduced the fee from $324 to $291.

 

 

 

[NoDisplayName]

Wise rate at 4:00  33.00

BKK TT rate at 4:15  32.83

 

Schwab swift, $15 fee, 500 baht deposit fee.   1,968,807 baht.

Wise xfer, fee reduced to  $291.                         1,970,397 baht.

 

Sending $60K, 1590 baht difference.  $48.   ~0.08%