800k Not In the Bank Method

[Packer]

8 hours ago, proton said:

 

Agents pass on expensive bribes, not needed

 

14,000 per year is not expensive, to most people, especially when the 800,000 invested in a basic asset returns more than this per annum. 🙂

[scubascuba3]

1 hour ago, flexomike said:

If he would have had his financials correct he would never have started this post.

Some people change their mind, agent vs own financials, op just said he dipped below

[Liquorice]

2 hours ago, Packer said:

Nothing at the moment as I haven't set up a retirement visa and extension yet. When I do I will likely pay 14,000 a year with no need to show the 800,000 funds, which will instead be invested in assets that return far more than the 14,000.

Curiosity, but which Province do you intend to reside in?

Which Provincial Immigration office will issue the extension?

[DrJack54]

Off topic posts removed

[gk10012001]

20 hours ago, Packer said:

 

Agents are cheap. 800k is not needed. 🙂 

how cheap?  Is it a one time fee or when the next year extension comes do you pay again?  what does the agent do?  Do they put 800,000 baht in an account for you?  what do the agents do that makes immigration rules satisfied about the financials?

[Rob Browder]

18 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

I've already posted previously about this and i recall someone else did.

 

All you need to do get the financials correct for a transitional period, so for around 13 months prior to extension renewal financials are as per the rules. Immigration are not going to complain you used an agent the year before, why would they? they are happy people using agents

If you switch offices, and the new office is jealous, thinking some other office got "their" agent-money, they sometimes make issues - demanding to see the last extension's bank-proofs.  CW applicants have reported this when moving from Jomtien and Samut Prakan, in recent threads I recall.  They literally call their fellow IOs in other offices criminals, while running the same scams in their own office. 

 

But, I don't recall what you describe being reported as a problem when using the same office, with one exception: A Non-O-90-day + 1-year-extension stamped in your passport without ~60-days in between them.  Both stamped within a week or two is obviously agent-work.

[Packer]

5 hours ago, gk10012001 said:

how cheap?  Is it a one time fee or when the next year extension comes do you pay again?  what does the agent do?  Do they put 800,000 baht in an account for you?  what do the agents do that makes immigration rules satisfied about the financials?

14,000 as opposed to 1,900 every year, but no need to put or keep 800,000 in a low interest Thai bank, which can then return far more than the low fee. Extension is at the officer's discretion, agents will know them personally 🙂 So many Westerners are old, smelly, rude and stupid, little wonder the officers prefer to deal with Thai go-betweens. 🙂 With all the copies of this and that, and going here and going there, only a real dunderhead would do all that just to actually lose money. 🙂

[thaibreaker]

47 minutes ago, Packer said:

14,000 as opposed to 1,900 every year, but no need to put or keep 800,000 in a low interest Thai bank, which can then return far more than the low fee. Extension is at the officer's discretion, agents will know them personally 🙂 So many Westerners are old, smelly, rude and stupid, little wonder the officers prefer to deal with Thai go-betweens. 🙂 With all the copies of this and that, and going here and going there, only a real dunderhead would do all that just to actually lose money. 🙂

The first year you would pay around double that amount. With the following extensions normally between 12,5k to 15k.

I see your point, and I think more and more retirees are using agents now, for various reasons.

[DrJack54]

2 hours ago, thaibreaker said:

The first year you would pay around double that amount.

That's only if the agent is also obtaining the Non O

Some folk enter with a Non O and have agent do extension. 

[scubascuba3]

8 hours ago, Rob Browder said:

But, I don't recall what you describe being reported as a problem when using the same office, with one exception: A Non-O-90-day + 1-year-extension stamped in your passport without ~60-days in between them.  Both stamped within a week or two is obviously agent-work.

This isn't a problem, agents seem to always provide the 15 months, no problem for immigration as they signed it off in the first place

[flexomike]

22 hours ago, Packer said:

 

14,000 per year is not expensive, to most people, especially when the 800,000 invested in a basic asset returns more than this per annum. 🙂

I send over 65,000+ every month and don't have to keep any money in the bank, and the agent doesn't get my 14,000, I can buy a lot of beer for that much.

[KhunLA]

23 hours ago, Packer said:

 

14,000 per year is not expensive, to most people, especially when the 800,000 invested in a basic asset returns more than this per annum. 🙂

I suspect ... IMHO ... that most use agents, since they don't have the 800k to begin with.

[gearbox]

23 hours ago, Packer said:

 

Nothing at the moment as I haven't set up a retirement visa and extension yet. When I do I will likely pay 14,000 a year with no need to show the 800,000 funds, which will instead be invested in assets that return far more than the 14,000.

 

I started a discussion about it here.

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1354895-alternate-investments-of-800k-retirement-funds/

 

Using the 800,000 to return substantially more than annual agent fees, along with the extension process being taken care of for you is an absolute no brainer. 🙂

 

You need to compare apples with apples, different investments carry different risks. Cash deposit rates are going down across the world, so the difference with the Thai rates is getting smaller. I have 800k on term deposit at 1.5%, the rates in Australia are going below 4% now, so not that much of a difference. Of course I can put them in penny stocks and make 100%, or lose everything... 

[BKKKevin]

23 minutes ago, gearbox said:

Thai rates is getting smaller. I have 800k on term deposit at 1.5%

What Thai bank are you using to get 1.5%?

[Packer]

6 hours ago, thaibreaker said:

The first year you would pay around double that amount. With the following extensions normally between 12,5k to 15k.

I see your point, and I think more and more retirees are using agents now, for various reasons.

 

That is why it's good to do the first year yourself. 

 

Put your 800,000 into the bank for a few months, get the first year.

 

Remove the 800,000 and invest accordingly. the annual returns will far exceed the 14,000 price of an agent and they do all the leg work for you. 

 

No brainer. Only a fool would not use an agent for retirement extension and invest their funds elsewhere. 🙂 

[Packer]

1 hour ago, BKKKevin said:

What Thai bank are you using to get 1.5%?

 

Google Thai banks 12 month fixed deposit rate.

 

For 12-month fixed deposits in Thai banks, interest rates generally range from 1.15% to 1.60% per annum. Specific rates vary between banks and may also depend on the deposit amount. For example, Krungthai Bank offers 1.2% for a 12-month fixed deposit, while LH Bank offers 1.5%. CIMB Thai offers 1.30% for a 12-month e-fixed deposit. Bangkok Bank offers 1.60% for 12-month fixed deposits. Some banks like TISCO Bank may offer higher rates, potentially ranging from 1.45% to 1.55%

 

 

1.6% = 12,800

-1,900 extension fee

 

= 10,900 p/a

[DrJack54]

55 minutes ago, Packer said:

Only a fool would not use an agent for retirement extension and invest their funds elsewhere.

Back up the high horse. 

Most including myself are well aware of the term and meaning of "opportunity cost" 

 

I have 800k in Thai Bank for immigration and those funds (at some point) came from my CBus Superannuation account which historically pays 8%.

 

So yes there is an opportunity cost involved. 

It's a personal choice so IMO turn it down a notch. 

Implying someone is a fool for not using an agent is your opinion. 

[DrJack54]

2 hours ago, flexomike said:

I send over 65,000+ every month and don't have to keep any money in the bank, and the agent doesn't get my 14,000....

For some reason this is often not mentioned. 

"Money in Bank" Method is one alternative. 

The other being "income method"

As soon as the funds hit your Thai Bank they can be used. 

Suggest at min 65k per month most would not find that excessive. 

 

An added bonus is that the funds are not tied up in a Thai Bank and upon demise funds in Bank is a non issue. 

 

Paperwork for extensions retirement are minimal. 

Main focus is on banking side of things. 

A 12 month Bank statement (200b) and Bank Letter (100b) can be obtained with visit to Bank. Easy peasy. 

[DrJack54]

8 hours ago, Packer said:

With all the copies of this and that, and going here and going there, only a real dunderhead would do all that just to actually lose money.

Similar to all your posts. 

Heavy handed using terms like "dunderhead" to describe those that do not use agents.. 

The amounts and easy access to agents you are posting seems to suggest Jomtien. 

 

Some immigration offices simply do not deal with agents. 

In some instances the stamps are obtained elsewhere. 

 

As, I pointed out in another post... the paperwork for extension retirement is not extensive. 

 

I often  suggest folk use agents for various reasons, not the least being mobility, insufficient funds etc. 

Bit rich to refer to those opting to not use an agent as dunderheads. 

[KhunLA]

1 minute ago, DrJack54 said:

For some reason this is often not mentioned. 

"Money in Bank" Method is one alternative. 

The other being "income method"

As soon as the funds hit your Thai Bank they can be used. 

Suggest at min 65k per month most would not find that excessive. 

 

An added bonus is that the funds are not tied up in a Thai Bank and upon demise funds in Bank is a non issue. 

 

Paperwork for extensions retirement are minimal. 

Main focus is on banking side of things. 

A 12 month Bank statement (200b) and Bank Letter (100b) can be obtained with visit to Bank. Easy peasy. 

Shouldn't that give one pause to think, 'why' people use agents.   IMHO, they simply don't have the monthly income, as you point out, really is too easy, and doesn't tie up anything.   Even a thrifty person would need at least half that amount to live on.  Rent, utilities, food & health insurance.

 

800k, lump sum method, does tie up some funds, but, if you don't have the income, wouldn't that be a good thing, as the savings doubling as an oops funds.   As I would think those that can't muster up a mere 65k a month, probably don't have health insurance, at a guess.

 

Why agents to skirt the financials, is a pet peeve of mine.  As I'm really not buying the 'it's convenient' to use an agent line.   As you have to show up at Imm anyway.   So you're paying someone 10-15k for the day, to jump the Q, or if not possible, to wait in line with you.   So 1 to 2k baht an hour, if there all day.    I can think of better things to spend that on.

 

Why would a rational person who can meet the financial, do such a thing ?

[Andrew Dwyer]

Just out of pure curiosity how do agents sidestep the 800k in the bank 2 months before 3 months after rule ?

Is it all down to an envelope changing hands and a pre-arranged agreement between agent and IO ? I did previously think that the agent would deposit funds to get the required paperwork then debit shortly afterwards but with the 12 month statement now required ??

 

I picked up my 12 months statement at BKK bank yesterday and got the bank letter at the same time.

The teller went to great lengths to explain the rules of keeping the right side of the 800/400k rule.

An hour later ( yes an hour !!, how can it take that long to do the letter ?? ) a lady from the back appeared with the letter and repeated the necessity to keep on the right side of the financial requirements. The words “ frozen account “ were thrown in for good measure !!

 

I thought it strange that the bank was getting involved in this as their input usually is to supply the letter and statement irrespective of movement in the account.

 

Did wonder if they had been urged to ensure that illicit movement of funds would not be tolerated ??

 

Never seen this in the last 8 years using this same branch .

[DrJack54]

9 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

I thought it strange that the bank was getting involved in this as their input usually is to supply the letter and statement irrespective of movement in the account.

Where? 

[Andrew Dwyer]

Just now, DrJack54 said:

Where? 

Ayutthaya.

I use the branch closest to the IO as they seem clued up on what is required at Immigration but this is the first time they have given out a “ friendly “ warning.

[Liquorice]

17 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Just out of pure curiosity how do agents sidestep the 800k in the bank 2 months before 3 months after rule ?

Is it all down to an envelope changing hands and a pre-arranged agreement between agent and IO ? I did previously think that the agent would deposit funds to get the required paperwork then debit shortly afterwards but with the 12 month statement now required ??

Those who use an agent in such a manner will tell you it's at the discretion of the Immigration official to circumvent the requirements, however try that without a brown envelope and suddenly rules are rules.

 

There are the options of using the monthly overseas transfer income method, the combination method, or still the Embassy Income letter where available.

Although Immigration state the 'retirement' option being available for those 50+, most don't receive state pensions until age 65+, even private pensions may not be available to draw down on until 55+, so for many aged between 50 - 65, the only option is 800K in a Thai bank account, or an agent.

[Andrew Dwyer]

5 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

Those who use an agent in such a manner will tell you it's at the discretion of the Immigration official to circumvent the requirements, however try that without a brown envelope and suddenly rules are rules.

 

There are the options of using the monthly overseas transfer income method, the combination method, or still the Embassy Income letter where available.

Although Immigration state the 'retirement' option being available for those 50+, most don't receive state pensions until age 65+, even private pensions may not be available to draw down on until 55+, so for many aged between 50 - 65, the only option is 800K in a Thai bank account, or an agent.

Thanks.

I have no intention to use an agent but have seen plenty of them with wads of paperwork and passports in hand.

Whether these are just assisting the process instead of bypassing i am not sure, there is quite a lot of Japanese working here attending immigration and I tend to think they are just getting assistance with the process/language barrier but I could be wrong.

 

There was a Brit living nearby who stated he paid 14k direct to the IO for his retirement extension but of course he could be mistaken and was meeting an agent at the IO.

 

Each to their own i guess.

I could do the income method, not sure if my IO does combination, but money in the bank seems the easiest option for me despite the annoyance of limited interest on the funds.

It is once a year and i usually get all my documents right first time so sitting around for an hour or so playing on my phone at immigration isn’t too painful.