2 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  What did they say ?

Basically they want all Palestinians to leave Gaza.

2 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   80 % civilian casualty rate is normal in wars .

 

You're wrong. 🙂 

1 minute ago, Packer said:

 

You're wrong. 🙂 

 

  No I am not .

Its the U.N figures .

U.N stated that 90 % of casualties in wars are civilians .

Shall I do a websearch and post the link ?

I have previously posted the link here 

 

3 minutes ago, ChristineC said:

Basically they want all Palestinians to leave Gaza.

 

   Yes, I do agree with that .

Its the only way for there to be lasting peace .

Palestinians need to live in a place where they cannot hit Israel with rockets .

   Palestinians have shown that they will not live in peace whilst Israel exists , so, either Israelis or Palestinians need to be moved away 

9 hours ago, ChristineC said:

Jews see Palestinians as less than human. 

Statements like Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant saying, "We are fighting against animals" are clear examples of the strategy to try to legitimize war crimes, said Gordon.

Comparisons of Palestinians to "rats or snakes" on Israeli social media accounts are an effort to "dehumanize" them and "legitimize civilian deaths."

Heard that before sounds familiar .....

7 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Yes, I do agree with that .

Its the only way for there to be lasting peace .

Palestinians need to live in a place where they cannot hit Israel with rockets .

   Palestinians have shown that they will not live in peace whilst Israel exists , so, either Israelis or Palestinians need to be moved away 

Well thanks for outing yourself as a far right fundamentalist Zionist.

You agree with ethnic cleansing, shame shame shame. Btw, that’s a war crime.

Vile .

1 minute ago, ChristineC said:

Well thanks for outing yourself as a far right fundamentalist Zionist.

 

 

   Don't you accept Israel's right to exist ?

As you don't seem to accept Israel's right to exist . you favour genocide as well .

7 hours ago, WDSmart said:

This is just another example of Israel's undeniable genocidal intent against the Palestinian people in Gaza, with the goal of either killing or driving out all Palestinians from their homeland and making all of Palestine the state of Israel.  😡 I'm appalled at these kinds of activities, but am glad to see they are now being reported daily in the Western news media.

But why do you not say ANYTHING about the Hamas Charter which specifically calls for the killing of all Israelis & taking all their land 'from the river to the sea'.    They want to make all the democratic State of Israel into one state called Palestine.   I am also appalled at these kind of activities, which you choose to absolutely ignore.   Btw, radical Islam calls for the killing of all infidels & that includes YOU, so methinks you are supporting the wrong side!

11 minutes ago, ChristineC said:

Well thanks for outing yourself as a far right fundamentalist Zionist.

You agree with ethnic cleansing, shame shame shame. Btw, that’s a war crime.

Vile .

But that's exactly what Hamas wants.   Read their charter.   They clearly advocate for the destruction of Israel & the killing of its population.   You have outed yourself as a supporter of terrorism and btw unless you are a Muslim, which your name would clearly identify you as not, then the radical islamists will come & kill you too but you just can't see that, can you?   It will not matter to them that you are a terrorist supporter, they will still kill you, as you are still an infidel and always will be - unless you convert!!

17 minutes ago, Greenhill said:

But that's exactly what Hamas wants.   Read their charter.   They clearly advocate for the destruction of Israel & the killing of its population.   You have outed yourself as a supporter of terrorism and btw unless you are a Muslim, which your name would clearly identify you as not, then the radical islamists will come & kill you too but you just can't see that, can you?   It will not matter to them that you are a terrorist supporter, they will still kill you, as you are still an infidel and always will be - unless you convert!!

Only 5% of countries in the UN call Hamas terrorists. I don’t support them btw.

The Israeli government are the terrorists.

 

i suggest you read this by human rights watch.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/11/29/why-does-israel-have-so-many-palestinians-detention-and-available-swap

40 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

No I am not .

Its the U.N figures .

U.N stated that 90 % of casualties in wars are civilians .

Shall I do a websearch and post the link ?

 

That myth was debunked almost as soon as it came out. 🙂

 

Quote

 

It is frequently claimed that 90% of casualties are civilians, but research has shown that to be a myth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualty_ratio

 

Quote

Myth of the 90% of casualties are civilians

During the 1990s, an argument arose that civilian casualty ratio had dramatically increased. The argument stated that, as of 1900, civilians constituted 10% of all casualties, but by the 1990s, civilians constituted 90% of all casualties.^[15] This figure has been widely doubted, and research has found little to no evidence that 90% of casualties are civilians.^[15] The 2005 Human Security Report called it a "myth" and instead suggested that 30–60% of fatalities from conflicts in 2002 were civilians.^[2] Likewise, the International Committee of the Red Cross estimated in 1999, that between 30 and 65% of conflict casualties were civilians.^[1]

There are two original sources for the myth of 90% of casualties being civilians. The first source – Christa Ahlström and Kjell-Åke Nordquist's 1991 Casualties of Conflict^[16] published by Uppsala University – stated that "nine out of ten victims (dead and uprooted) of war and armed  conflict today are civilians".^[1][2] Some readers misconstrued it as 90% of fatalities being civilians. In fact, the same report counted only fatalities for the year of 1989 and in that case found only 67% of fatalities were civilians.^[1][2] The second source was Ruth Sivard's World Military and Social Expenditures,^[17] also published in 1991. Sivard did indeed say that 90% of deaths in conflicts, during the year 1990, were civilian. But Sivard included famine-related deaths, which are typically not counted in civilian casualty ratios.^[1][2] Sivard was also criticized for not stating her sources, and the Human Security Report 2005 noted there was insufficient global data on deaths caused by war-related famine.^[2] Nevertheless, these claims were erroneously picked up by Graca Machel's "The Machel Review 1996–2000: A Critical Analysis of Progress Made and Obstacles Encountered in Increasing Protection for War-Affected Children" written for the UNICEF.^[1]

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualty_ratio#:~:text=Myth of the 90% of casualties are civilians,-During the 1990s&text=The 2005 Human Security Report called it a "myth" and,of conflict casualties were civilians.

 

Just one of the sources:

 

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/00396338.2010.494880

 

🙂

 

 

3 minutes ago, ChristineC said:

The Israeli government are the terrorists.

 

And if found guilty in an international court it will be great to see them hang. 🙂

6 minutes ago, Packer said:

 

That myth was debunked almost as soon as it came out. 🙂

 

 

 

Just one of the sources:

 

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/00396338.2010.494880

 

🙂

 

 

 

   The civilian death rate in Gaza still falls into line with the

8 minutes ago, Packer said:

 

That myth was debunked almost as soon as it came out. 🙂

 

 

 

Just one of the sources:

 

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/00396338.2010.494880

 

🙂

 

 

 

   From 2022

 

 

Ninety Per Cent of War-Time Casualties Are Civilians,

 

 

With civilians accounting for nearly 90 per cent of war-time casualties a

 

https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm

 

 

1 hour ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Don't you accept Israel's right to exist ?

As you don't seem to accept Israel's right to exist . you favour genocide as well .

Yes, I believe in Israel’s right to exist – as I do for any nation whose people seek to live in peace and security. Israel is a sovereign state, recognized by the United Nations, and it has the right to protect its citizens and thrive as a homeland for the Jewish people. The horrors of the Holocaust and centuries of persecution make that right undeniable.

However, Israel’s right to exist should not come at the cost of denying the same right to the Palestinian people. The continued occupation of Palestinian land, the expansion of illegal settlements in the West Bank, and the displacement of communities violate international law and undermine the prospect of a peaceful two-state solution. I believe Israel should return to the borders established before the 1967 war – with fair, negotiated land swaps – and recognize a sovereign Palestinian state with East Jerusalem as its capital.

Justice, security, and dignity must be extended to both Israelis and Palestinians. Supporting Israel’s right to exist should not mean endorsing its government’s every policy – just as supporting Palestine’s right to exist doesn’t mean supporting violence against civilians. A lasting peace will only come when both peoples are treated as equals, and both can live free from fear, oppression, and occupation.

So yes, I believe in Israel’s right to exist – but not in the right to occupy, to annex, or to deny Palestinians their homeland and their humanity.

1 minute ago, ChristineC said:

 

Yes, I believe in Israel’s right to exist

 

   You are a Zionist then .

Welcome aboard .

A Zionist is a person who believes in Israel's right to exist 

11 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Ninety Per Cent of War-Time Casualties Are Civilians,

 

 

With civilians accounting for nearly 90 per cent of war-time casualties a

 

https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm

 

You either didn't read the report, or didn't understand it. 🙂

 

Only one of the numerous speakers said that:

 

"Conflict continued to cause widespread civilian death last year, notably in densely populated areas, where civilians accounted for 90 per cent of the casualties when explosive weapons were used, compared to 10 per cent in other areas. "

 

And used this as a source for his piece.

https://docs.un.org/en/S/2022/381

 

In 2021, 1,234 incidents involving the use of explosive weapons were recorded in populated areas in 21 States affected by conflict, resulting in 10,184 victims. Of these, 89 per cent were civilians, compared with 10 per cent in other areas. The highest numbers of civilian victims of explosive weapons in populated areas were reported in Afghanistan, the Occupied Palestinian Territory and the Syrian Arab Republic

 

 

Someone with an agenda could use to source to declare 90% of casualties are civilians, while another could use the same information and source to declare that 10% are. Both, of course, would be wrong. 🙂

 

9 hours ago, billd766 said:

So the 50 odd thousand innocent men women and children slaughtered by the UDF don't matter to you at all?

 

Neither the Ulster Defence Force nor the United Dairy Farmers have even slaughtered anyone in Gaza.  The IDF have killed many thousands but between one-third and one-half have been members of Hamas. An IDF  estimate in January 2025 put the number of dead Hamas members at 20,000 since  the Oct. 7, 2023, attack.  https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-838583

 

Since Hamas is a terrorist group and not a regular army, it is difficult for the IDF to distinguish between civilians and members of Hamas' armed wings, especially when the group has a strategy of hiding among civilians in a densely populated urban area.

EU nations condemn Hamas for what they describe as use of hospitals, civilians as ‘human shields’  https://apnews.com/article/european-union-condemn-hamas-human-shields-2c0d1c04cb38fc4acce37d8d624e1a3f   

BM  @Dongaalso provided a link to a heavy-duty academic-style study of Hamas' human shield strategy.   https://henryjacksonsociety.org/publications/hamass-human-shield-strategy-in-gaza/ 

 

9 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

BTW the Palestinians are Semites as well.

 

 The term "Semite"  is nowadays correctly used only when referring to people who spoke ancient Semitic languages.  Bottom line:  the word "antisemitism" has never been used in the English language to mean anything but a hatred of  Jews.

 

I wrote about this in an  earlier thread:

 

On 4/13/2025 at 1:23 AM, Evil Penevil said:

 The use of the word "Semite" to refer to an ethnic group is outdated.  The Encyclopedia Britannica explains it this way:

"Semite, obsolete term, popularized in the 19th century, that originally described a member of any people who speak one of the Semitic languages, a family of languages that includes Arabic, Hebrew, Amharic, Aramaic, and Tigrinya, among others. The term was later used in an ethnic sense, even though there has never been a shared Semitic identity among Semitic-speaking peoples. When used in that sense, Semite often referred specifically to people of Jewish origin, regardless of what language they spoke, a reflection of the antisemitism that was concurrent in 19th-century Europe."  https://www.britannica.com/topic/Semite

 

The word "anti-Semitism" or "antisemitism" entered the English language in1881 from the German Antisemitismus, which had been coined by Wilhelm Marr, a German journalist and agitator who thought it sounded more scientific and academic than the older Judenhaß  ("Jew hatred").  Marr himself is regarded as the "father of modern antisemitism,"  although he apparently renounced his anti-Jewish beliefs as an old man.  https://njop.org/the-origin-of-word-anti-semitism/aee

 

1 hour ago, Packer said:

You either didn't read the report, or didn't understand it. 🙂

 

Many people probably drew the same conclusion as @Nick Carter icp  What message would you draw from this headline on an official U.N. Web site? The first sentence of the press release says straight out that civilians account "for nearly 90 per cent of war-time casualties."

 

 

https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm

 

This is mainly a dispute over terminology.   The source @Packer quoted  stated in some conflicts in densely populated urban areas  about 90% of the casualties are civilians.  There's no reason to disbelieve that figure, but it applies to one specific type of armed conflict:  in densely populated urban areas when explosive weapons are used.  It doesn't mean ALL armed conflicts have a 90% casualty rate for civilians nor that 90% civilian casualties is the most commonly occurring rate.  The disconnect is that some (many? most?) people are applying 90% too broadly as a general figure for modern armed conflict.

 

The civilian casualty rate depends on the circumstances.  Here's the kicker: the Gaza Strip is a densely populated urban area and explosive weapons (aerial bombing, missiles, etc.) are widely used by the IDF.  It would seem fair to assume that 90% civilian casualties could be expected in the Gaza conflict.  That's my conclusion, I'm not attributing it to anyone else.

 

BTW, it was Ramesh Rajasingham, Director of Coordination of the Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs,  who used the 90%  figure in his presentation to the U.N. Security Council  @Packer  Do you think he "didn't read the report, or didn't understand it?"

6 hours ago, Evil Penevil said:

Many people probably drew the same conclusion as @Nick Carter icp  What message would you draw from this headline on an official U.N. Web site? 

 

I wouldn't draw a conclusion from a headline, I would read the report and the source first, in order to not give incorrect information.

 

The poster's claim: 90% of casualties in war are civilians.

 

The source report, not the headline:

Data from 3 reports from one year (2021) show that civilian casualties during armed conflicts were 10% in non-urban areas, and 89% in urban areas.

 

One of the 3 conflicts used as a source of data was the Israeli slaughter of Palestinians.

 

🙂

 

Poster's claim: Debunked as false. 

9 hours ago, Greenhill said:

But why do you not say ANYTHING about the Hamas Charter which specifically calls for the killing of all Israelis & taking all their land 'from the river to the sea'.    They want to make all the democratic State of Israel into one state called Palestine.   I am also appalled at these kind of activities, which you choose to absolutely ignore.   Btw, radical Islam calls for the killing of all infidels & that includes YOU, so methinks you are supporting the wrong side!

I have made comments condemning Hamas' Oct 7 attack, and do understand that both sides want to eradicate the other in order to establish only one state - their state. I condemn Israel now because, as far as I know, they are the only ones who are continuing these genocidal actions since Oct 7. But, you have to realize that before Oct 7 and for the past 70 years, this "war" for one state has been going on continuously. Oct 7 was just another chapter in that war, and now Israel's actions in Gaza (and the West Bank), are the latest chapter. 

19 hours ago, ChristineC said:

Hamas terrorist killed 815 civilians on Oct 7 attack. Since then Israel terrorists have killed 870 babies in Gaza under 1 year of age.

You are maybe watching US biased tv but just think about this for a moment.

But if you read the Israeli or IDF propaganda they were all mistakes made by the most moral army in the world.

 

So ALL of those babies were armed and had already become Hamas terrorists?

 

A video quote from Netanyahu.  https://www.google.com/search?q=the+most+moral+army+in+the+world&sca_esv=9649273cc4db550e&sxsrf=AE3TifNnmVLiUEL04xPUSSuVS2pN-bg3gQ%3A1752891806874&source=hp&ei=ngF7aLqeM8SQseMP7s7RiA0&iflsig=AOw8s4IAAAAAaHsPrj-VxFVeGHP2yJ7yf8tFyCkPQR_9&ved=0ahUKEwi65efr7seOAxVESGwGHW5nFNEQ4dUDCBc&uact=5&oq=the+most+moral+army+in+the+world&gs_lp=Egdnd3Mtd2l6IiB0aGUgbW9zdCBtb3JhbCBhcm15IGluIHRoZSB3b3JsZDIIEAAYgAQYywEyCBAAGIAEGMsBMgYQABgWGB4yBhAAGBYYHjIJEAAYFhjHAxgeMgkQABgWGMcDGB4yBRAAGO8FMgUQABjvBTIFEAAY7wUyBRAAGO8FSOSgAVAAWLqHAXAAeACQAQCYAXqgAfcVqgEEMjcuNbgBA8gBAPgBAZgCIKAC5BfCAgwQIxiABBgTGCcYigXCAgcQABiABBgTwgIEECMYJ8ICDxAjGPAFGIAEGBMYJxiKBcICCBAAGBYYChgemAMAkgcEMjUuN6AHtrgBsgcEMjUuN7gH5BfCBwgyLTI1LjYuMcgH0QE&sclient=gws-wiz

 

A quote from Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purity_of_arms

 

Another from the Telegraph.  https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/27/israel-defence-forces-most-moral-soldiers-in-the-world/

 

There are more on the internet if people are not too lazy to do a search.

 

 

9 hours ago, Evil Penevil said:

 

 

Neither the Ulster Defence Force nor the United Dairy Farmers have even slaughtered anyone in Gaza.  The IDF have killed many thousands but between one-third and one-half have been members of Hamas. An IDF  estimate in January 2025 put the number of dead Hamas members at 20,000 since  the Oct. 7, 2023, attack.  https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-838583

 

Since Hamas is a terrorist group and not a regular army, it is difficult for the IDF to distinguish between civilians and members of Hamas' armed wings, especially when the group has a strategy of hiding among civilians in a densely populated urban area.

EU nations condemn Hamas for what they describe as use of hospitals, civilians as ‘human shields’  https://apnews.com/article/european-union-condemn-hamas-human-shields-2c0d1c04cb38fc4acce37d8d624e1a3f   

BM  @Dongaalso provided a link to a heavy-duty academic-style study of Hamas' human shield strategy.   https://henryjacksonsociety.org/publications/hamass-human-shield-strategy-in-gaza/ 

 

 

 The term "Semite"  is nowadays correctly used only when referring to people who spoke ancient Semitic languages.  Bottom line:  the word "antisemitism" has never been used in the English language to mean anything but a hatred of  Jews.

 

I wrote about this in an  earlier thread:

 

 

And you were 100% incorrect in both cases and in both threads, just as you are in this thread.

 

Do some proper research.

20 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Ah yes, the "concentration camp". That had hotels, cafes, restaurants, mosques, markets.... where the population grew every year. 

 

THAT "concentration camp".

 

Grow up. 

It’s ironic that your parents or grandparents were probably in German concentration camps yet you refuse believe Israel is doing exactly the same as the Nazis. Do support the plan to set up a “humanitarian “ camp in Rafa?

56 minutes ago, billd766 said:

And you were 100% incorrect in both cases and in both threads, just as you are in this thread.

 Are you saying the Ulster Defence Force and the United Dairy Farmers HAVE slaughtered people in Gaza??? 

 

About what are you claiming I am 100% incorrect?  You certainly haven't disproved anything I've written.

9 hours ago, Evil Penevil said:

 

Many people probably drew the same conclusion as @Nick Carter icp  What message would you draw from this headline on an official U.N. Web site? The first sentence of the press release says straight out that civilians account "for nearly 90 per cent of war-time casualties."

 

 

https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm

 

This is mainly a dispute over terminology.   The source @Packer quoted  stated in some conflicts in densely populated urban areas  about 90% of the casualties are civilians.  There's no reason to disbelieve that figure, but it applies to one specific type of armed conflict:  in densely populated urban areas when explosive weapons are used.  It doesn't mean ALL armed conflicts have a 90% casualty rate for civilians nor that 90% civilian casualties is the most commonly occurring rate.  The disconnect is that some (many? most?) people are applying 90% too broadly as a general figure for modern armed conflict.

 

The civilian casualty rate depends on the circumstances.  Here's the kicker: the Gaza Strip is a densely populated urban area and explosive weapons (aerial bombing, missiles, etc.) are widely used by the IDF.  It would seem fair to assume that 90% civilian casualties could be expected in the Gaza conflict.  That's my conclusion, I'm not attributing it to anyone else.

 

BTW, it was Ramesh Rajasingham, Director of Coordination of the Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs,  who used the 90%  figure in his presentation to the U.N. Security Council  @Packer  Do you think he "didn't read the report, or didn't understand it?"

Can I as why you stand with Israel? Are you Jewish?

Do you agree with Netanyahu, Ben Gvir, And Smotrich’s policies?
 

10 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   You are a Zionist then .

Welcome aboard .

A Zionist is a person who believes in Israel's right to exist 

I am not a Zionist, you speak nonsense.

 

1 hour ago, ChristineC said:

It’s ironic that your parents or grandparents were probably in German concentration camps yet you refuse believe Israel is doing exactly the same as the Nazis. Do support the plan to set up a “humanitarian “ camp in Rafa?

Sounds good to me.  

 

Israel is doing the same as the Nazis? Rounding up and gassing Palestinians by the trainload? Industrializing murder to speed up the process of eliminating every Palestinian?  Come on.  Terms like "concentration camp" get thrown around with little thought to actual historical accuracy, just to stir up emotions and stifle discussion. You can do better. 

 

It is a strange genocide when the "victim" sees their population grow every year. Ironically, grow faster than the country that is committing the "genocide". I guess the Jews are just poor at genocide, eh? 

3 minutes ago, ChristineC said:

Can I as why you stand with Israel? Are you Jewish?

 

I stand with Israel because I believe the Jewish people have a right to a homeland and refuge where they can live without persecution.  A  Jewish-majority sovereign state is the best way to ensure another attempt at exterminating the world's Jews won't take place or fail if it does. A militarily and economically strong Israel is the best defense against the antisemitism Jews have suffered since Roman times. 

 

Six million Jews. roughly 40% of the world's Jews and two-thirds of Europe's  Jews, lost their lives between 1939-1945 and national governments, even in the Western democracies, did very, very little to save them.  Jews cannot depend on others to protect them; they have to do it themselves.  Never again is now.

 

I am not Jewish but I have in the past lived and worked in Israel.  I have a profound respect for the country, its cultural, religion and people.   I also believe the best way for non-Jews to fight antisemitism is to stand with Israel.  Israelis have stood against enormous odds and all attempts to destroy their country since 1948.  The least I can do is to say I stand with them and speak out against antisemitism whenever and wherever I encounter it.

17 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Sounds good to me.  

 

Israel is doing the same as the Nazis? Rounding up and gassing Palestinians by the trainload? Industrializing murder to speed up the process of eliminating every Palestinian?  Come on.  Terms like "concentration camp" get thrown around with little thought to actual historical accuracy, just to stir up emotions and stifle discussion. You can do better. 

 

It is a strange genocide when the "victim" sees their population grow every year. Ironically, grow faster than the country that is committing the "genocide". I guess the Jews are just poor at genocide, eh? 

This leading Jewish professor’s parents survived concentration camps.

 

13 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Don't you accept Israel's right to exist ?

As you don't seem to accept Israel's right to exist . you favour genocide as well .

I certainly do.

 

I also accept Palestine’s right to exist, which you certainly do not.