1 minute ago, Evil Penevil said:

I

3 minutes ago, Evil Penevil said:

 

I stand with Israel because I believe the Jewish people have a right to a homeland and refuge where they can live without persecution.  A  Jewish-majority sovereign state is the best way to ensure another attempt at exterminating the world's Jews won't take place or fail if it does. A militarily and economically strong Israel is the best defense against the antisemitism Jews have suffered since Roman times. 

 

Six million Jews. roughly 40% of the world's Jews and two-thirds of Europe's  Jews, lost their lives between 1939-1945 and national governments, even in the Western democracies, did very, very little to save them.  Jews cannot depend on others to protect them; they have to do it themselves.  Never again is now.

 

I am not Jewish but I have in the past lived and worked in Israel.  I have a profound respect for the country, its cultural, religion and people.   I also believe the best way for non-Jews to fight antisemitism is to stand with Israel.  Israelis have stood against enormous odds and all attempts to destroy their country since 1948.  The least I can do is to say I stand with them and speak out against antisemitism whenever and wherever I encounter it.

stand with Israel because I believe the Jewish people have a right to a homeland and refuge where they can live without persecution.  A  Jewish-majority sovereign state is the best way to ensure another attempt at exterminating the world's Jews won't take place or fail if it does. A militarily and economically strong Israel is the best defense against the antisemitism Jews have suffered since Roman times. 

 

Six million Jews. roughly 40% of the world's Jews and two-thirds of Europe's  Jews, lost their lives between 1939-1945 and national governments, even in the Western democracies, did very, very little to save them.  Jews cannot depend on others to protect them; they have to do it themselves.  Never again is now.

 

I am not Jewish but I have in the past lived and worked in Israel.  I have a profound respect for the country, its cultural, religion and people.   I also believe the best way for non-Jews to fight antisemitism is to stand with Israel.  Israelis have stood against enormous odds and all attempts to destroy their country since 1948.  The least I can do is to say I stand with them and speak out against antisemitism whenever and wherever I

Thanks for replying. I understand now if you’ve lived in Israel.

Supporting Israel as a state does not require uncritical endorsement of all its actions or policies, particularly when they impact others' rights and lives.

The tragedy of Jewish persecution over centuries, culminating in the Holocaust, undeniably justifies the need for a safe haven for Jews. However, the creation of the modern State of Israel in 1948 also involved the displacement of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, many of whom remain refugees to this day. That reality is not erased by Israel’s democratic or cultural achievements. If “Never Again” is a moral imperative, it must apply universally,not only to Jews, but to all people.

Antisemitism is a vile hatred that must be opposed everywhere, but criticizing the policies of the Israeli government, especially those that violate international law or perpetuate occupation and inequality, is not antisemitic. Many Jews, both inside and outside of Israel, are critical of their government's policies, particularly with regard to the occupation of Palestinian territories and the treatment of Palestinians.

 

Do you stand with Ben Gvir - “Occupation, settlement, and encouragement of emigration. Only in this way can we solve the problem of Gaza. To occupy all the land. To settle in all the land. And of course, to encourage the voluntary emigration of as many [Palestinian] people as possible to other countries.”

 

Do you stand with Smotrich?

“Returning the hostages is not the most important thing.”

 

“If the hostages…and the dead, are not returned… Israel will expand the agricultural areas… into the perimeter area of the Gaza Strip… this land will remain in our hands forever.”

 

“There is no such thing as the Palestinian people … The Palestinian people is an invention that is less than 100 years old.”

 

“It’s time to stop fearing the word occupation. We are conquering Gaza to stay … There will be no more temporary maneuvering.”

 

6 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I certainly do.

 

I also accept Palestine’s right to exist, which you certainly do not.

 

He’s a far right Jewish fundamentalist, it’s clear from his posts.

Kids are the front page of the propaganda campaign against Israel but don't forget every kid will grow up to become a terrorist and the girls will grow up to be breeders for Islam. If you read that story recently of a doctor and his wife in gaza getting killed by Israeli shelling. They had TWELVE CHILDREN, 12 kids being primed to fight. And she was an educated women; a doctor.

1 hour ago, ChristineC said:

Do you agree with Netanyahu, Ben Gvir, And Smotrich’s policies?

 

I don't agree at all with Ben-Gvir and Smotrich.  I agree with some of Netanyahu's policies and positions, disagree with others and have no opinion on some.  Broadly speaking,  I support his efforts to destroy Hamas once and for all. 

 

Moreover,  I believe a two-state solution is the best way to settle the conflict in Palestine,  assuming all Palestinian groups and Arab national governments recognize Israel's right to exist as a sovereign state and the Jewish homeland.

2 hours ago, ChristineC said:

I am not a Zionist, you speak nonsense.

 

 

 A Zionist  is a person who believes in Israel's right to exist . 

You have previously stated that you believe in Israel's right to exist 

You are a Zionist 

It's an unlimited genocidal war until they have all died. By hunger, disease, thirst, shells. 

And nobody got the guts to stop Bibi.

It's a shame.

10 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

It's an unlimited genocidal war until they have all died. By hunger, disease, thirst, shells. 

And nobody got the guts to stop Bibi.

It's a shame.

 

   Its a war to defeat a terrorist organisation .

55 minutes ago, ChristineC said:

Thanks for replying. I understand now if you’ve lived in Israel.

Supporting Israel as a state does not require uncritical endorsement of all its actions or policies, particularly when they impact others' rights and lives.

The tragedy of Jewish persecution over centuries, culminating in the Holocaust, undeniably justifies the need for a safe haven for Jews. However, the creation of the modern State of Israel in 1948 also involved the displacement of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, many of whom remain refugees to this day. That reality is not erased by Israel’s democratic or cultural achievements. If “Never Again” is a moral imperative, it must apply universally,not only to Jews, but to all people.

Antisemitism is a vile hatred that must be opposed everywhere, but criticizing the policies of the Israeli government, especially those that violate international law or perpetuate occupation and inequality, is not antisemitic. Many Jews, both inside and outside of Israel, are critical of their government's policies, particularly with regard to the occupation of Palestinian territories and the treatment of Palestinians.

 

Do you stand with Ben Gvir - “Occupation, settlement, and encouragement of emigration. Only in this way can we solve the problem of Gaza. To occupy all the land. To settle in all the land. And of course, to encourage the voluntary emigration of as many [Palestinian] people as possible to other countries.”

 

Do you stand with Smotrich?

“Returning the hostages is not the most important thing.”

 

“If the hostages…and the dead, are not returned… Israel will expand the agricultural areas… into the perimeter area of the Gaza Strip… this land will remain in our hands forever.”

 

“There is no such thing as the Palestinian people … The Palestinian people is an invention that is less than 100 years old.”

 

“It’s time to stop fearing the word occupation. We are conquering Gaza to stay … There will be no more temporary maneuvering.”

 

You are correct that a refugee crisis was created when Israel declared independence, as sanctioned by the UN, and was then immediately attacked by 5 Arab countries. The crisis was partly Israel's fault, and partly the attackers. The problem came when the war ended. The refugees didn't have the opportunity to settle where they took refuge. Instead, they were kept in camps and fed a line of BS propaganda that they could soon return "home". 

 

Well, home was gone. The obvious answer would have been to settle the displaced Palestinians in the surrounding countries, where they shared language, culture, and religion.  Starting the myth of a "right of return" did nobody any favours. It is a ridiculous concept, especially if you try to apply it to other refugee situations.

 

Do the Jews expelled from north Africa and the Arab countries in the Middle East ALSO have the right to return to their homes? Do Hindus who were kicked out of Pakistan when India and Pakistan declared independence have a right to return? How about the Germans expelled from East Prussia when the borders of modern Poland were settled after WW2?

 

Of course not. The situation has festered long enough. 

44 minutes ago, Magictoad said:

Kids are the front page of the propaganda campaign against Israel but don't forget every kid will grow up to become a terrorist and the girls will grow up to be breeders for Islam. If you read that story recently of a doctor and his wife in gaza getting killed by Israeli shelling. They had TWELVE CHILDREN, 12 kids being primed to fight. And she was an educated women; a doctor.

What a despicable, vile, islamophobic post.

5 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

You are correct that a refugee crisis was created when Israel declared independence, as sanctioned by the UN, and was then immediately attacked by 5 Arab countries. The crisis was partly Israel's fault, and partly the attackers. The problem came when the war ended. The refugees didn't have the opportunity to settle where they took refuge. Instead, they were kept in camps and fed a line of BS propaganda that they could soon return "home". 

 

Well, home was gone. The obvious answer would have been to settle the displaced Palestinians in the surrounding countries, where they shared language, culture, and religion.  Starting the myth of a "right of return" did nobody any favours. It is a ridiculous concept, especially if you try to apply it to other refugee situations.

 

Do the Jews expelled from north Africa and the Arab countries in the Middle East ALSO have the right to return to their homes? Do Hindus who were kicked out of Pakistan when India and Pakistan declared independence have a right to return? How about the Germans expelled from East Prussia when the borders of modern Poland were settled after WW2?

 

Of course not. The situation has festered long enough. 

Surely you can see the difference with Palestians.

 

The right of return is consistent with international law and not unique to Palestinians.

 

Palestinians are still recognized as refugees by the UN. Hindus displaced from Pakistan are not, because they’ve been resettled and given citizenship in India.

 

Palestinians remain stateless and under military occupation in many areas. Jewish refugees from Arab lands at least found refuge and citizenship in Israel or other countries. Germans expelled after WWII became citizens of Germany. The injustice facing Palestinians persists in ways that other historical examples do not parallel as directly.

1 minute ago, ChristineC said:

Surely you can see the difference with Palestians.

 

The right of return is consistent with international law and not unique to Palestinians.

 

Palestinians are still recognized as refugees by the UN. Hindus displaced from Pakistan are not, because they’ve been resettled and given citizenship in India.

 

Palestinians remain stateless and under military occupation in many areas. Jewish refugees from Arab lands at least found refuge and citizenship in Israel or other countries. Germans expelled after WWII became citizens of Germany. The injustice facing Palestinians persists in ways that other historical examples do not parallel as directly.

Agreed.

 

So YOU agree that the blame lies on the countries that refused to resettle the Palestinians and give them citizenship, right? In other words, the Arab nations who instead chose to use the Palestinians as a weapon against Israel. 

 

The injustice does not persist because of Israel. It persists because of Arab/Muslim bigotry against the Palestinians.  Jews could find refuge in Israel. Why could Palestinians not find refuge i nEgypt or Iraq or...

16 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

The refugees didn't have the opportunity to settle where they took refuge. Instead, they were kept in camps and fed a line of BS propaganda that they could soon return "home". 

 

   Palestinians were given their own land and Country .

 

23 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Its a war to defeat a terrorist organisation .

BS. Therefore you accept to kill more than 20.000 innocent women, children, old age people? Pathetic.

1 minute ago, newbee2022 said:

BS. Therefore you accept to kill more than 20.000 innocent women, children, old age people? Pathetic.

 

   What other way  could Hamas be defeated ?

Just now, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   What other way  could Hamas be defeated ?

Stop these cynical posts. It's NOT tolerable and inhumane 

Just now, newbee2022 said:

Stop these cynical posts. It's NOT tolerable and inhumane 

 

  Its a genuine question .

How can wars be won with no civilian casualties ?

You would be inline for the Nobel peace prize if you can come up with a solution 

20 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Agreed.

 

So YOU agree that the blame lies on the countries that refused to resettle the Palestinians and give them citizenship, right? In other words, the Arab nations who instead chose to use the Palestinians as a weapon against Israel. 

 

The injustice does not persist because of Israel. It persists because of Arab/Muslim bigotry against the Palestinians.  Jews could find refuge in Israel. Why could Palestinians not find refuge i nEgypt or Iraq or...

Jews could find refuge because Israel existed.

You argue, “Jews could find refuge.” That’s  right, that’s precisely the point.

Jews from Arab countries were absorbed into Israel (and the West) because they had a state willing to take them in and integrate them.

Palestinians do not have a state. They've been stateless in many places, living under occupation, blockade, or discrimination in host countries. Now Israel are ethnically cleansing Gaza and the West Bank.

So the success of Jewish resettlement doesn’t prove Palestinians were treated equally, it shows the asymmetry of power and protection.

Its well documented why Arab countries don’t accept Palestians, it’s horrid to suggest that is because they are lower than Jews. Do you admit, as a Jew, that most Jews feel superior to Palestinians?

Just now, ChristineC said:

Palestinians do not have a state.

 

   Palestinians were given a state, an independent Nation

Just like Israel were .

Israel accepted the offer of an independent nation

Palestinians rejected the offer of their own Country 

They didn't want it 

15 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   What other way  could Hamas be defeated ?

Hamas cannot be defeated. You extremist Jews know this, and as your buddy Smotrich says, “returning the hostages is not the most important thing”.

You want all Palestinians out of Gaza and you don’t condemn West Banknsettlements, do you.

3 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Palestinians were given a state, an independent Nation

That’s a lie.

On 7/18/2025 at 1:51 PM, ChristineC said:

Jews see Palestinians as less than human. 

Statements like Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant saying, "We are fighting against animals" are clear examples of the strategy to try to legitimize war crimes, said Gordon.

Comparisons of Palestinians to "rats or snakes" on Israeli social media accounts are an effort to "dehumanize" them and "legitimize civilian deaths."

So there is a war going on and you get all upset about a few "hurty words"  typical leftist reaction ?   

You have absolutely no skin in the game so why such a one sided view ?   How do you think some  Muslims refer to jews? or indeed the rest of humanity.  You should look into that and comment again

5 minutes ago, ChristineC said:

That’s a lie.

 

   You are just showing your ignorance .

You don't even know the basics 

9 minutes ago, ChristineC said:

You extremist Jews

you really are a piece of work

1 minute ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   You are just showing your ignorance .

You don't even know the basics 

They only know what they are told on facebook by other leftists, the truth is of no importance to them

12 minutes ago, ChristineC said:

Hamas cannot be defeated

He said defiantly      

2 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   You are just showing your ignorance .

You don't even know the basics 

I studied this subject at Leeds University. Unlike you, I have no bias.

In 1947, the United Nations proposed a Partition Plan (Resolution 181) to end British rule in Mandatory Palestine by dividing the territory into two states - one Jewish and one Arab. According to this plan, Jews - who made up about one-third of the population and owned roughly 6-7% of the land - were allocated 55% of the territory, including much of the fertile coastal plain. The Arab majority - around two-thirds of the population - were to receive just 45% of the land, most of it in less desirable areas. To Palestinians and Arab states, this was a deeply unfair arrangement. They saw it as a plan that legitimized the dispossession of the native Arab population to accommodate a largely European Jewish immigrant population, many of whom had only arrived in the preceding decades.

Beyond the disproportionate land allocation, Palestinians rejected the plan for ideological and political reasons. The very idea of partition - of dividing their homeland to create a new state for another people - was perceived as a colonial imposition that ignored Arab self-determination. The memory of centuries of local rule, the influx of Zionist settlers under British protection, and fears of further displacement all contributed to Arab opposition. Though the Zionist leadership accepted the plan - as a strategic step toward statehood - Arab leaders rejected it on principle, believing that it violated their rights and sovereignty. The rejection led directly to the 1948 war following Israel’s declaration of independence - a war that resulted in over 700,000 Palestinians becoming refugees and the permanent failure of the proposed Palestinian state.

 

3 minutes ago, ChristineC said:

, Palestinians rejected the plan

 

 

   Ten minutes ago you claimed it was a lie, now you are claiming it to be a fact .

   

1 hour ago, ChristineC said:

What a despicable, vile, islamophobic post.

You have difficulties accepting the truth ,  your insulting response is also so typical of your ilk,  You had to get "islamophobic "in there didn't you? one of the lefties "stopping words" which of course  halts any meaning full debate.

Most of us accept that criticising terrorists (with hurty words) is not islamophobic at all. But simple souls like you can't tell the difference between terrorists and genuine normal muslims. 

Just now, Bday Prang said:

You have difficulties accepting the truth ,  your insulting response is also so typical of your ilk,  You had to get "islamophobic "in there didn't you? one of the lefties "stopping words" which of course  halts any meaning full debate.

Most of us accept that criticising terrorists (with hurty words) is not islamophobic at all. But simple souls like you can't tell the difference between terrorists and genuine normal muslims. 

That’s a laugh after your antisemitism rants.

Do you mean the Hamas, that only 5% of UN countries call terrorist?

Stop reading the Times if Israel

65k dead. War crimes in the concentration camp