Tropical Home Design

[Iolare]

i’ve designed a house to build on a hill overlooking Phang Nga Bay. What I’ve come up with is a one story design of about 300 sq. meters, with deck, sala, pool, garage adding another 300 sq. meters or so. The main view to the sea is in a southeasterly direction, so the main rooms are oriented that way with a lot of glass.

I’m pretty happy with the overall design, but before moving from design and engineering to the cement pouring stage, I thought it’d be a good idea to tap the experience and wisdom of this group regarding how this tropical climate should influence the design of a house. What do you regard as the most important elements in building a comfortable house here? For example, where I come from orienting a house to take advantage of the southerly light results in a cheerful house. What about here?

[Jai Dee]

Direct sunlight on glass should be avoided... as the temperature buildup inside will be considerable (unless of course you plan to spend a fortune on air-conditioning).

Give consideration to wide covered verandahs or eaves... they will not only keep the sun off the glass but keep the rain away from the house as well, yet still allow plenty of light inside.

Sliding doors and flow-through ventilation will keep your house relatively cool with the expected sea breeze.

Those morning sunrises should be spectacular.

/Edit - additional thoughts - before pouring your concrete give consideration to your drains, particularly the grey water drains from your bathrooms. Make sure they install P-traps or S-bends to ensure no bad odours from your septic system can be drawn back into the house. A water seal is important.

Also, before concreting the outside paving next to the house, give consideration to the drains from your air-conditioners (bedrooms etc). It would be better to pre-install PVC drains under the paving to take the compressor condensate water away from the house where you could end up with damp walls.

Edited August 11, 2007 by Jai Dee
Additional comments added.

[jacques75]

i've designed a house to build on a hill overlooking Phang Nga Bay. What I've come up with is a one story design of about 300 sq. meters, with deck, sala, pool, garage adding another 300 sq. meters or so. The main view to the sea is in a southeasterly direction, so the main rooms are oriented that way with a lot of glass.

I'm pretty happy with the overall design, but before moving from design and engineering to the cement pouring stage, I thought it'd be a good idea to tap the experience and wisdom of this group regarding how this tropical climate should influence the design of a house. What do you regard as the most important elements in building a comfortable house here? For example, where I come from orienting a house to take advantage of the southerly light results in a cheerful house. What about here?

To avoid any problems you should appoint a Civil Engineer to go over the drawing and give you a costing, he can prepare the drawings for planning permission and advise you on a builder, you can also contract him to control the construction quality, Civil Engineers are licenced which is in the interest of your protection againts any thing going wrong.....

[Iolare]

i’ve designed a house to build on a hill overlooking Phang Nga Bay. What I’ve come up with is a one story design of about 300 sq. meters, with deck, sala, pool, garage adding another 300 sq. meters or so. The main view to the sea is in a southeasterly direction, so the main rooms are oriented that way with a lot of glass.

I’m pretty happy with the overall design, but before moving from design and engineering to the cement pouring stage, I thought it’d be a good idea to tap the experience and wisdom of this group regarding how this tropical climate should influence the design of a house. What do you regard as the most important elements in building a comfortable house here? For example, where I come from orienting a house to take advantage of the southerly light results in a cheerful house. What about here?

Jai Dee, Thanks for your response.

The house will have a hip roof design, and i have planned eaves of 1.5 meters counting the gutters. The exception to that are two gable ends on the view side with the same overhang, but no gutters. Those rooms (master Brm sitting room and Living room) have glass in the gables, and glass doors that open accordian-like to pretty much open the rooms to the pool deck area. The actual orientation is ESE, so I’m hoping that there isn’t too much temp. buildup. I could made the eaves a little wider on those two gables. That’s the area of the design that’s making me a little nervous. I think I’ve got pretty good cross ventilation in the design so hopefully we’ll benefit from those breezes. I had a plumbing company in LA until recently, so I agree with your plumbing cautions, and I appreciate all of your ideas.

[Crossy]

Consider a pole-house design, should be a relatively easy modification of your existing plans as it's already a bungalow. The underfloor area helps considerably with cooling and gives you space for the cars etc. Attic ventilation helps too (ensure you keep the critters out).

Something like this

Belongs to another TV member (don't remember who )

[Iolare]

i’ve designed a house to build on a hill overlooking Phang Nga Bay. What I’ve come up with is a one story design of about 300 sq. meters, with deck, sala, pool, garage adding another 300 sq. meters or so. The main view to the sea is in a southeasterly direction, so the main rooms are oriented that way with a lot of glass.

I’m pretty happy with the overall design, but before moving from design and engineering to the cement pouring stage, I thought it’d be a good idea to tap the experience and wisdom of this group regarding how this tropical climate should influence the design of a house. What do you regard as the most important elements in building a comfortable house here? For example, where I come from orienting a house to take advantage of the southerly light results in a cheerful house. What about here?

Jai Dee, Thanks for your response.

The house will have a hip roof design, and i have planned eaves of 1.5 meters counting the gutters. The exception to that are two gable ends on the view side with the same overhang, but no gutters. Those rooms (master Brm sitting room and Living room) have glass in the gables, and glass doors that open accordian-like to pretty much open the rooms to the pool deck area. The actual orientation is ESE, so I’m hoping that there isn’t too much temp. buildup. I could made the eaves a little wider on those two gables. That’s the area of the design that’s making me a little nervous. I think I’ve got pretty good cross ventilation in the design so hopefully we’ll benefit from those breezes. I had a plumbing company in LA until recently, so I agree with your plumbing cautions, and I appreciate all of your ideas.

Jacques, your concern is absolutely on point for me. My land is about 6 rai and the building site sits about 12 meters above the sea level. It slopes gently about 2 meters from the road to the building site, then drops off fairly abruptly 7 or 8 meters and then levels to a fairly gentle slope to the ocean, where i’ve had a sea wall installed. I had some land work done to create a path to the ocean that I could easily walk and drive my truck down, so I got a good look at the soil composition.

I hired a Thai engineer to do the working drawings. I recently got the first draft, and the footings and grade beams didn’t look adequate to me, and their were no pilings. It turns out that he didn’t have any soil testing done, so I’m having someone else rework the engineering. I’d rather overbuild than have my house and pool slide down the hill. I think the first guy was licensed.

[Iolare]

Consider a pole-house design, should be a relatively easy modification of your existing plans as it's already a bungalow. The underfloor area helps considerably with cooling and gives you space for the cars etc. Attic ventilation helps too (ensure you keep the critters out).

Something like this

Belongs to another TV member (don't remember who )

Thanks Crossy,

My lot slopes enough that poles are a practical idea for me, so slab on posts was my idea from the beginning. The fellow who was doing the working drawings changed that to slab on fill, but I put a stop to that. Communication is so difficult!! I was planning on side walls of stone to cover with crawl space, but with large screened vents. My thought was to keep local critters from setting up housekeeping under the house. Since the lot slopes as much as it does, I added an office, an exercise area, and a sauna, as well as a mechanical room and extra garage/workshop down there too. I’m hoping that enclosing the space doesn’t negate the benefits you’re talking about.

[Crossy]

My lot slopes enough that poles are a practical idea for me, so slab on posts was my idea from the beginning. The fellow who was doing the working drawings changed that to slab on fill, but I put a stop to that. Communication is so difficult!! I was planning on side walls of stone to cover with crawl space, but with large screened vents. My thought was to keep local critters from setting up housekeeping under the house. Since the lot slopes as much as it does, I added an office, an exercise area, and a sauna, as well as a mechanical room and extra garage/workshop down there too. I’m hoping that enclosing the space doesn’t negate the benefits you’re talking about.

You need to have airflow through the underside area for maximum benefit, although enclosing partly shouldn't have a serious effect.

We're in the planning stage too, our 1.5 Rai lot is flat and about 2m above high river level, we've filled to be level with the road so when it floods hopefully it won't get higher than our lawn. We're going for 3m poles with a small area downstairs walled for workshop and laundry room. Nothing flash, we're basing around design number 27 on this page http://www.crossy.co.uk/Thai_House_Plans/ much smaller than yours but with just myself and the missus we don't want to rattle around too much

I'm no builder (electrical engineer) but I reckon you'll need driven piles as a minimum foundation near the sea and on a slope.

[Iolare]

My lot slopes enough that poles are a practical idea for me, so slab on posts was my idea from the beginning. The fellow who was doing the working drawings changed that to slab on fill, but I put a stop to that. Communication is so difficult!! I was planning on side walls of stone to cover with crawl space, but with large screened vents. My thought was to keep local critters from setting up housekeeping under the house. Since the lot slopes as much as it does, I added an office, an exercise area, and a sauna, as well as a mechanical room and extra garage/workshop down there too. I’m hoping that enclosing the space doesn’t negate the benefits you’re talking about.

You need to have airflow through the underside area for maximum benefit, although enclosing partly shouldn't have a serious effect.

We're in the planning stage too, our 1.5 Rai lot is flat and about 2m above high river level, we've filled to be level with the road so when it floods hopefully it won't get higher than our lawn. We're going for 3m poles with a small area downstairs walled for workshop and laundry room. Nothing flash, we're basing around design number 27 on this page http://www.crossy.co.uk/Thai_House_Plans/ much smaller than yours but with just myself and the missus we don't want to rattle around too much

I'm no builder (electrical engineer) but I reckon you'll need driven piles as a minimum foundation near the sea and on a slope.

I went to your link and got a look at the pictures of the house you're going to build. Did you retain the central courtyard idea? Looks like a nice house, and you’ll get the additional benefit of exercise going up and down those stairs every day. Interesting that the government supplies free plans. And I’m impressed at the estimated cost of building that house. Looks like it works out to be about 5500 baht per square meter. i would be turning cartwheels if I could get mine done for that.

By the way, I think I’ll make the vents in my crawl space bigger to insure good airflow under the house. Thanks for your input and good luck with the project.

[Vansana]

Belongs to another TV member (don't remember who )

I saw this house before and i really like it! Anybody knows who it belongs?

Greetings

Vansana

[ProThaiExpat]

Think about ground termites!!!! Many falang have a pvc piping system layed before concrete is poured so a once a year termite prevention treatment can be injected through the pvc into the soil under the foundation.

I didn't do this for my ground level one story and had to have holes drilled through the floor at various points so the termite poison could be injected.

There is a very good reason why many houses are built on stilts because the vermin can't crawl up the plumbing access ports and invade your furniture and any other cellulose in your house.

I built mine specifying absolutely no wood to be used in the construction, but it wasn't enough and lost a kitchen sink cabinet in the second year from termites climbing up the plumbing. They love to find a tiny crevice and eat your door molding from underneath, without you knowing it is going on.

My melamine lined kitchen sink cabinet actually collapsed as the melamine hid the termite infestation until the entire cabinet failed.

Few spec electric gate openers, I have no reason why, as who wants to get out of the car and get drenched opening a perimeter gate. Garage door too.

If you have large rooms attention to the ceiling and its supports is important. My suspended ceiling is starting to sag between the brackets, the gypsum is just sagging a little, but with side light on the ceiling, any defect or slight indentation is visible. Probably humidity over five years, although I do use a lot of air con.

Spec the paint brand and color as cheap paint just doesn't work. Especially on perimeter walls where they just seem to want to white wash them and withing six months they are black, especially near the ocean, I would think.

Spec appropriate undercoating for all painted surfaces. You will pay western prices for good paints and primers in Thailand, but well worth the cost in durability and color retention.

Go shopping for all your own tile, plumbing fixtures, cabinets and light fixtures. Spec the roof tile by brand and quality.

Gutters should be the big ones and spec where the downspouts are to be located and how they are to hug the house wall. I had most of mine enclosed in decorative plaster columns as some of my house has flat roof surfaces that needed draining.

Spec the strongest metal available for your sliding glass doors and make sure you have overbuild headers over those openings to prevent sag. The slightest sag there may bind your doors over time. Floor sag as well.

My brightest rooms are northern exposure with glass block for privacy. Used glass block in bathrooms as well for privacy. Glass block in outside wall closets and the garage is a good light source as long as the wall is not western facing.

[Crossy]

I went to your link and got a look at the pictures of the house you're going to build. Did you retain the central courtyard idea? Looks like a nice house, and you’ll get the additional benefit of exercise going up and down those stairs every day. Interesting that the government supplies free plans. And I’m impressed at the estimated cost of building that house. Looks like it works out to be about 5500 baht per square meter. i would be turning cartwheels if I could get mine done for that.

The prices and areas came direct from the government site (the link is broken at present, need to fix it once I get a decent connection), I suspect the area is a bit over-stated and the prices are old. Our favoured builder is 'quoting' 2.5 -2.8 million to build but he's thus far failed to come up with a cost breakdown.

We've done away with the front stairs (just using the internal steps for security reasons) and extended the slab forward by 2m, the two side roofs are also extended by 2m as is the lounge itself, leaving us a 4 x 2 shaded sitting area outside the bedroom. We've retained the central courtyard area, although it's likely to get hot it will be full of the wifes pot plants, the greenery is great at reducing the temperature we've got loads of plants in our current (rented) place and they really help.

Since the Missus is from Ayutthaya we've adjusted the roof to be more akin to the Central Thai style which I think looks better than that in the drawings (personal opinion of course) and since we're right next door to a Wat won't look out of place. Once I get the final modified drawings from our pet architect I'll drop them on the site for comment.

Edited August 11, 2007 by Crossy

[Sir Burr]

Belongs to another TV member (don't remember who )

I saw this house before and i really like it! Anybody knows who it belongs?

Greetings

Vansana

Errrrm.......that would be me.

[Crossy]

EDIT The man himself beat me to it

Edited August 11, 2007 by Crossy

[Iolare]

Think about ground termites!!!! Many falang have a pvc piping system layed before concrete is poured so a once a year termite prevention treatment can be injected through the pvc into the soil under the foundation.

I didn't do this for my ground level one story and had to have holes drilled through the floor at various points so the termite poison could be injected.

There is a very good reason why many houses are built on stilts because the vermin can't crawl up the plumbing access ports and invade your furniture and any other cellulose in your house.

I built mine specifying absolutely no wood to be used in the construction, but it wasn't enough and lost a kitchen sink cabinet in the second year from termites climbing up the plumbing. They love to find a tiny crevice and eat your door molding from underneath, without you knowing it is going on.

My melamine lined kitchen sink cabinet actually collapsed as the melamine hid the termite infestation until the entire cabinet failed.

Few spec electric gate openers, I have no reason why, as who wants to get out of the car and get drenched opening a perimeter gate. Garage door too.

If you have large rooms attention to the ceiling and its supports is important. My suspended ceiling is starting to sag between the brackets, the gypsum is just sagging a little, but with side light on the ceiling, any defect or slight indentation is visible. Probably humidity over five years, although I do use a lot of air con.

Spec the paint brand and color as cheap paint just doesn't work. Especially on perimeter walls where they just seem to want to white wash them and withing six months they are black, especially near the ocean, I would think.

Spec appropriate undercoating for all painted surfaces. You will pay western prices for good paints and primers in Thailand, but well worth the cost in durability and color retention.

Go shopping for all your own tile, plumbing fixtures, cabinets and light fixtures. Spec the roof tile by brand and quality.

Gutters should be the big ones and spec where the downspouts are to be located and how they are to hug the house wall. I had most of mine enclosed in decorative plaster columns as some of my house has flat roof surfaces that needed draining.

Spec the strongest metal available for your sliding glass doors and make sure you have overbuild headers over those openings to prevent sag. The slightest sag there may bind your doors over time. Floor sag as well.

My brightest rooms are northern exposure with glass block for privacy. Used glass block in bathrooms as well for privacy. Glass block in outside wall closets and the garage is a good light source as long as the wall is not western facing.

Thanks Pro, lots of good ideas there. You are the voice of experience, and that what I’m looking for. I’m concerned about insects, especially termites too, but I didn’t plan to go “woodless” in the house. I was thinking about a few hardwood floors (though I’ve seen a lot of them cupping due to improper drying, followed by humidity?), and the cathedral ceilings would be wood. Also the interior and front doors in wood. I don’t like Thai style cement cabinets with wood doors that I’ve seen commonly used, so I was looking to have western style cabinet furniture installed. I’ve heard about the termite tubes and now I’ll do that for sure, so hopefully, with good pest control and with the house up on posts, I won’t be replacing the doors and furniture in a couple of years like you.

I’ve noticed drywall sagging in homes here too. I was planning on looking into these cement board products as an alternative or perhaps plastered ceilings.

I’m very happy to read that you get good light from the north side. In the northern latitudes where I come from, the north side of the house is dead due to the sun being oriented so far to the south.

[Sir Burr]

As we are in the tropics (between the tropic of Cancer and Capricorn), the sun will be northerly at midday during the summer months.

[Vansana]

Here a good article about Dumb Things to Do in the South:

....and thank you Sir Burr: you have a really impressive house there, that´s exactly what I want...

Edited August 11, 2007 by Vansana

[ProThaiExpat]

I lucked out in only two areas, INHO, regarding world class standards in my custom home. One was my kitchen cabinets.

I have done more than a dozen kitchens in the U.S. and Hawaii and so do know custom kitchen cabinet design. My last two sets in Hawaii came from Canada.

I prefer what many call Euro-design cabinets, very smooth exterior surfaces free of reveal for easy cleaning and no dust catching properties. Tekka, the German appliance manufacturer as some store here in Thailand and five years ago offered high tech Euro Design kitchen cabinets. I don't know if they still do. Anyway I got a high gloss wood appearing laminate cabinet door with rounded edges and no reveal. Interiors are white melamine. My kitchen is open to the living area so I wanted more of a softer wood look as opposed to kitchen white or the "laboratory look" Granite counter tops, but saved a bundle as I found some Thai granite which is so much cheaper than the imported. Mirrored back splashes and stainless steel appliances, even a little used dishwasher. Micro-wave built in.

The installers came up from the Bangkok factory and stay here in a hotel for three days until the job was done. Highly skilled and the local manager of Tekka was on job to supervise when needed. They used a base board to fill the gap between the top of the cabinets to the ceiling, but since the space was more than 10 cms the baseboard looked like a baseboard, and to me opressive and clearly a baseboard as there was one at the bottom of the cabinets.

I said no way, give me dummy door fronts to cover the gap. They called BKK, overnight made them and got them to the job on the third day. Very good look. That type of installer and a computer assisted kitchen design really is the only way to go. Pay particular attention to the quality of the drawer hardware and whether the drawers are self closing when within 10 centimeters of fully closed.

The other "luck out" was my sliding mirror closet doors. I don't care for any of the wardrobes that are so popular here and I do like multilevel clothes racks, etc. So had the house built with built in closest across the bedrooms and bought mirrored closet doors to cover.

Shocked to find none of the light, inexpensive beveled mirrored doors in every Home Depo in the US. available here. Perhaps Home Pro, which wasn't open in those days, has them now, I don't know. I did find a very high end sliding mirrored door in various wood finishes at R.B. Furniture. They actually had a graduate architect working at the store and he drew the plans for the door installation Better plans than for the house.

Bangkok installers again, I live in Chiang Mai, and were they good. There was almost a 5 cm. variance off of true vertical at one end of one of the closets and they merely put in a custom made on the job shiny metal looking filler that matched the metal trim of the door so hardly noticeable. Beautiful well built door with minimal track openings to catch dirt. Very world class. Closet openings were 3 meter, so each door was 1.5 meter in width. Five years later they look like they were just installed.

Had the kitchen cabinet people from Tekka make my while bathroom cabinets with black trim as well and they are still perfect. I had a side cabinet floor to ceiling installed next to my granite vanity cabinet to store towels and all the other stuff bathrooms need including medicines, etc. The cabinet under the granite vanity is full width, 3 meters so there is plenty of room for trash bin, toilet paper, etc. Opted for single under-mounted oval sinks, since I don't share bathrooms well and don't have to. Why do a double sinks when there is only solo use?. Much more counter surface to spread your gear out on before the maid puts it away in the cabinet and then I have to try and find it.

A person idiosyncrasy is a well designed urinal that adjoins the toilet in the W/C. My days in Japan created an aversion for toilets in the same room as bathing and the lav. No complaints regarding leaving the toilet seat up in my house and during my night trips, no aiming required, urinal conforms to the body well and is tear shaped for style. Have done urinals in my bathrooms for many of my last house projects. No problem on re-sale, and in fact enhances it in most cases. No need for bidet with the water sprays here in Thailand, but would suggest you actually sit on your toiled and then mark the wall where the nozzle hanger should be placed, as you should do with the toiled paper holder as well. Incredible how so many of them are "located" by installers with little care as to their accessibility to the person intended to use them.

I would definitely task your architect, who drew the plans, to be on site daily, to insure the job goes as planned, or do it yourself. I was on the job twice a day, even though I drew the preliminary plans myself, and even then, things were done not following the plans and had to be re-done. Project developer had to give extra funds to builder to cover the cost of the mistakes, and some of them were beauts. Another story.

We must remind ourselves that most builders in Thailand are not familiar with innovative design concepts and often go blindly ahead "misunderstanding" the plans. I insisted on all my floors be on one level, Thais lower bathrooms, kitchens and closets. I was forever telling them, just before the install of a room, to bring the floor up to the level of the adjoining room. Spec where cut tiles are to be placed, they will put them anywhere, usually in the most visible part of the room. Choose the finished edge for your tiles, their only finish system is a plastic rounded strip. Not very high end.

Good design might eliminate most exposed ends of tiles.

An the beat goes on.

[Naam]

Also, before concreting the outside paving next to the house, give consideration to the drains from your air-conditioners (bedrooms etc). It would be better to pre-install PVC drains under the paving to take the compressor condensate water away from the house where you could end up with damp walls.

tss... tss.. tss.. Jai Dee; you suggest an absolute NO-NO. the ends of condens water drain should always be freely accessible for two reasons:

-free flow of condensate

-for maintenance if blocked.

[Iolare]

I lucked out in only two areas, INHO, regarding world class standards in my custom home. One was my kitchen cabinets.

I have done more than a dozen kitchens in the U.S. and Hawaii and so do know custom kitchen cabinet design. My last two sets in Hawaii came from Canada.

I prefer what many call Euro-design cabinets, very smooth exterior surfaces free of reveal for easy cleaning and no dust catching properties. Tekka, the German appliance manufacturer as some store here in Thailand and five years ago offered high tech Euro Design kitchen cabinets. I don't know if they still do. Anyway I got a high gloss wood appearing laminate cabinet door with rounded edges and no reveal. Interiors are white melamine. My kitchen is open to the living area so I wanted more of a softer wood look as opposed to kitchen white or the "laboratory look" Granite counter tops, but saved a bundle as I found some Thai granite which is so much cheaper than the imported. Mirrored back splashes and stainless steel appliances, even a little used dishwasher. Micro-wave built in.

The installers came up from the Bangkok factory and stay here in a hotel for three days until the job was done. Highly skilled and the local manager of Tekka was on job to supervise when needed. They used a base board to fill the gap between the top of the cabinets to the ceiling, but since the space was more than 10 cms the baseboard looked like a baseboard, and to me opressive and clearly a baseboard as there was one at the bottom of the cabinets.

I said no way, give me dummy door fronts to cover the gap. They called BKK, overnight made them and got them to the job on the third day. Very good look. That type of installer and a computer assisted kitchen design really is the only way to go. Pay particular attention to the quality of the drawer hardware and whether the drawers are self closing when within 10 centimeters of fully closed.

The other "luck out" was my sliding mirror closet doors. I don't care for any of the wardrobes that are so popular here and I do like multilevel clothes racks, etc. So had the house built with built in closest across the bedrooms and bought mirrored closet doors to cover.

Shocked to find none of the light, inexpensive beveled mirrored doors in every Home Depo in the US. available here. Perhaps Home Pro, which wasn't open in those days, has them now, I don't know. I did find a very high end sliding mirrored door in various wood finishes at R.B. Furniture. They actually had a graduate architect working at the store and he drew the plans for the door installation Better plans than for the house.

Bangkok installers again, I live in Chiang Mai, and were they good. There was almost a 5 cm. variance off of true vertical at one end of one of the closets and they merely put in a custom made on the job shiny metal looking filler that matched the metal trim of the door so hardly noticeable. Beautiful well built door with minimal track openings to catch dirt. Very world class. Closet openings were 3 meter, so each door was 1.5 meter in width. Five years later they look like they were just installed.

Had the kitchen cabinet people from Tekka make my while bathroom cabinets with black trim as well and they are still perfect. I had a side cabinet floor to ceiling installed next to my granite vanity cabinet to store towels and all the other stuff bathrooms need including medicines, etc. The cabinet under the granite vanity is full width, 3 meters so there is plenty of room for trash bin, toilet paper, etc. Opted for single under-mounted oval sinks, since I don't share bathrooms well and don't have to. Why do a double sinks when there is only solo use?. Much more counter surface to spread your gear out on before the maid puts it away in the cabinet and then I have to try and find it.

A person idiosyncrasy is a well designed urinal that adjoins the toilet in the W/C. My days in Japan created an aversion for toilets in the same room as bathing and the lav. No complaints regarding leaving the toilet seat up in my house and during my night trips, no aiming required, urinal conforms to the body well and is tear shaped for style. Have done urinals in my bathrooms for many of my last house projects. No problem on re-sale, and in fact enhances it in most cases. No need for bidet with the water sprays here in Thailand, but would suggest you actually sit on your toiled and then mark the wall where the nozzle hanger should be placed, as you should do with the toiled paper holder as well. Incredible how so many of them are "located" by installers with little care as to their accessibility to the person intended to use them.

I would definitely task your architect, who drew the plans, to be on site daily, to insure the job goes as planned, or do it yourself. I was on the job twice a day, even though I drew the preliminary plans myself, and even then, things were done not following the plans and had to be re-done. Project developer had to give extra funds to builder to cover the cost of the mistakes, and some of them were beauts. Another story.

We must remind ourselves that most builders in Thailand are not familiar with innovative design concepts and often go blindly ahead "misunderstanding" the plans. I insisted on all my floors be on one level, Thais lower bathrooms, kitchens and closets. I was forever telling them, just before the install of a room, to bring the floor up to the level of the adjoining room. Spec where cut tiles are to be placed, they will put them anywhere, usually in the most visible part of the room. Choose the finished edge for your tiles, their only finish system is a plastic rounded strip. Not very high end.

Good design might eliminate most exposed ends of tiles.

An the beat goes on.

Pro,

Your German cabinet company out of Bangkok sounds terrific. I think I may have found a similar outfit here in Phuket run by an Australian fellow. Their work looks very professional. I also have decided on a clean European look with smooth surfaces for the same reason you did-- My house has a fairly informal plan with the kitchen open to the great room. If it doesn’t work out with the local guy here, I’ll be sure to look up Tekka in BKK. I’m going with the local Thai granite too, it’s cheaper then Corian.

As for the bathrooms, I agree that one shouldn’t have to be a contortionist just to reach the toilet paper, so some advance thought will go into that. I thought about a urinal too, but since the toilet in the master bath is in it’s own room, and the rest of the area will look pretty upscale, there’s just no good place to put it there. Maybe I’ll put one in the lower level bath next to my office and near my workshop. Those kitchen sprayers next to the toilets are new to me. I’m assuming it’s a Thai style bidet, but I can’t imagine how how you can use it and keep your clothes dry--I guess you have to remove your clothes first. Anyway, the maid at our place here in Chalong uses them to wash the floors, so i guess we’ll put them in all the bathrooms.

I agree with you about the need for close attention once construction is underway. I plan to remain in Thailand for the duration, and be onsite at least once per day. I also like all the floors one level (and actually level). I think the drop you find at the bathroom thresholds is dangerous, and a sure tripping point for American visitors anyway, but now I’m getting used to it, so i may do it, but just in the bathrooms. The drain idea for the baths seems good, but you’d need to pour a little water into the drain occasionally to keep the sewer gas from coming in, and probably a drop or two of chlorine for the mosquito larva I hate those plastic outside corners for ceramic tile too Thanks again for all the great info.

[Crossy]

Those kitchen sprayers next to the toilets are new to me. I’m assuming it’s a Thai style bidet, but I can’t imagine how how you can use it and keep your clothes dry--I guess you have to remove your clothes first. Anyway, the maid at our place here in Chalong uses them to wash the floors, so i guess we’ll put them in all the bathrooms.

There have been whole threads devoted to the use of the 'bum squirter' and the 'spray or wipe' brigade. Suffice it to say, no you don't have to remove any clothing to use them

EDIT such as this one http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=102137

Edited August 11, 2007 by Crossy

[ProThaiExpat]

lolare: I am a little intimidated in posting here as you seem really on top of your project and display the sophistication in building a house that says you have done it before and well.

You did indicate a desire to make sure your floors are level. I would have done the same but by chance I didn't pay attention and my excellent tile man put in a slight grade sloping to the outside sliding doors. As a result, whenever there is a spill or overflow in the laundry area or kitchen, the liquid doesn't puddle under an appliance or a table and becomes quite visible as it runs toward the exterior, depending on the amount. I like this wrinkle better than if it was level and a puddles formed.

With an opportunity to spec where your shower drains are located, consider in the corner of the shower with the slope in that direction, rather than in the center, right under where you stand and the slope in from each corner as we see so often in the States.

The ceilings in my bathrooms were not lowered and at 2.9 meters, like the rest of the house, are high enough so I have no fog or steam forming to damage the ceiling, although I had my bathrooms tiled to the ceiling and the ceiling over the showers tiled. For the first time in years, I didn't spec clear safety glass for a shower enclosure and happy I didn't. Clear "see through" shower curtains are easy to find here and much easier to maintain than glass, which I used to squegee every time I showered. Without steam, fungus formation is minimal. The shower curtain can be taken down and cleaned thoroughly, which you can't do with the clear glass and no fungus forms in the corners of the frame since there is not one.

You might pay attention to the location of room air cons such that they blow toward small rooms like bathrooms where you won't have an air con. I have an arch between my bedroom and its bath so the air con is located on the opposite wall blowing toward the arch. Since the W/C has its own privacy door, it works well and I do enjoy an air conditioned bathroom in Thailand. In the great room area, my other guest/bedroom bath cools by merely leaving the door open as that one has an air con opposite and only the vanity can be viewed from the great room, if someone was really curious, as it is more or less in a very little traffic area. That bathroom has an additional door at the other end that allows it to be an ensuite for the guest bedroom/office. By the way, I placed a column of glass block under a square window on the outside wall of both bathrooms, so they are both flooded with light. That glass block is the width of the walk area of the bath opposite the main entry door or arch and the area one stands in when at the vanity.

[Iolare]

lolare: I am a little intimidated in posting here as you seem really on top of your project and display the sophistication in building a house that says you have done it before and well.

You did indicate a desire to make sure your floors are level. I would have done the same but by chance I didn't pay attention and my excellent tile man put in a slight grade sloping to the outside sliding doors. As a result, whenever there is a spill or overflow in the laundry area or kitchen, the liquid doesn't puddle under an appliance or a table and becomes quite visible as it runs toward the exterior, depending on the amount. I like this wrinkle better than if it was level and a puddles formed.

With an opportunity to spec where your shower drains are located, consider in the corner of the shower with the slope in that direction, rather than in the center, right under where you stand and the slope in from each corner as we see so often in the States.

The ceilings in my bathrooms were not lowered and at 2.9 meters, like the rest of the house, are high enough so I have no fog or steam forming to damage the ceiling, although I had my bathrooms tiled to the ceiling and the ceiling over the showers tiled. For the first time in years, I didn't spec clear safety glass for a shower enclosure and happy I didn't. Clear "see through" shower curtains are easy to find here and much easier to maintain than glass, which I used to squegee every time I showered. Without steam, fungus formation is minimal. The shower curtain can be taken down and cleaned thoroughly, which you can't do with the clear glass and no fungus forms in the corners of the frame since there is not one.

You might pay attention to the location of room air cons such that they blow toward small rooms like bathrooms where you won't have an air con. I have an arch between my bedroom and its bath so the air con is located on the opposite wall blowing toward the arch. Since the W/C has its own privacy door, it works well and I do enjoy an air conditioned bathroom in Thailand. In the great room area, my other guest/bedroom bath cools by merely leaving the door open as that one has an air con opposite and only the vanity can be viewed from the great room, if someone was really curious, as it is more or less in a very little traffic area. That bathroom has an additional door at the other end that allows it to be an ensuite for the guest bedroom/office. By the way, I placed a column of glass block under a square window on the outside wall of both bathrooms, so they are both flooded with light. That glass block is the width of the walk area of the bath opposite the main entry door or arch and the area one stands in when at the vanity.

Pro

I really appreciate your posts because I find then full of useful, practical information based on your actual experience. I suspect we have a lot in common in our backgrounds. As I mentioned previously, I had a plumbing company in LA, but that being such a big market, I was in a very specific niche--we installed water heaters--kind of a narrow slice of the plumbing business, but you can bet that every hot water tap in my new house will have instant 125 degree F. water!! Well, except for an extra one next to the kitchen sink which will be 200.

What I think we have in common is that I’ve also bought and sold a lot of property, and made and lost a lot of money I(not to imply that you’ve lost money too). And operating in the rather pretentious, upscale LA market, I had to be up on all the trends of design and decor. 20 years earlier had a construction and real estate business in Minnesota. So I’ve seen and been involved in a lot of successes and failures along the way, and hopefully learned a few things. One thing I’m pretty sure of is that in a new environment it’s a good idea to ask a lot of questions and keep your mind and eyes open to what works and what doesn’t.

I could see that the LA real estate market was heading for one of its periodic corrections, and I had been caught overextended in a previous one, so I suggested to the wife that maybe we ought to sell some property including our home of 20 years and head this way (while we were still a little ahead of the game). Weve been coming here for quite awhile, and my wife is originally from Bangkok so we were going to make this move eventually anyway. So we’re here a few years ahead of schedule, and looking to build a comfortable home for ourselves.

My first thought was to build a California house in Phuket, but after living here for five months i started to realize that this tropical lifestyle is quite different from southern CA. Here i enjoy sitting on a roofed open porch overlooking a little klong. I’m out here most of the time, looking at the lotus flowers and Koi fish, and bringing in the morning with a cup of coffee and the sounds of the roosters in the neighborhood. Here you really can be outdoors night or day year round. Anyway, this realization is what prompted my posting this subject. i want our house to facilitate this tropical way of life. And while I know from experience that you don’t get it perfect the first time out of the box, I’d like to get it close enough to have a house that we can enjoy without truly regrettable mistakes. If we like the building experience, but think we can do even better with another one, we have enough land for a couple more.

[Iolare]

Here a good article about Dumb Things to Do in the South:

....and thank you Sir Burr: you have a really impressive house there, that´s exactly what I want...

Vansana,

That list of 10 Dumb Things was eye opening, and I wanted to ponder it for awhile before responding to your post. The discussion of whether venting of the attic space was good or bad surprised me, but made sense, and the roof radiating heat was very logical. I also understood and agreed with the problems with A/C ducting, and I had already decided to go with aircoms instead a central system with ducts after talking to an experienced builder here in Phuket.

It’s the need for a drainage plain that had me scratching my head. Water migration and leakage through stucco is understandable, and I’ve used the lapped paper/metal lath system many times in the past, but what do you do here with masonry construction? My plan calls for double walls primarily to get some dead air insulation, and to conceal the posts and to provide space for mechanical runs, but would that space function as a vapor block and a kind of drainage plane? Would one need drain holes through the floor between the walls? I was planning to have the stucco applied directly to the outer wall of block, just like everyone else. Incidently, I plan to install lots of ceiling fans in the house, and use the A/C as little as possible. I’d much rather have the house open to the outside as much as possible.

Have you faced these issues? And what did you do?

[Vansana]

Well lolare,

I am just in the very early planning stage, so i am not too useful on these issues There are so many nice house-planes out there but it seems to be hard to find a decent plan for a house on stilts. And it seem stilts are the way to go here as the locals have been doing it for hundreds of years.

I want a modern house without any "traditional thai style" details but it seem the house will still look very similar to a traditional house: Thai houses have steep roofs arching upwards with a cathedral ceiling inside . Windows and doors are carefully aligned to facilitate an uninterrupted flow and aid the circulation of air. In the hot and humid tropical climate, the airy, open quality of a Thai house and the broad overhangs of its roof protect the interior from both sun and rain. Elevated houses facilitate the circulation of air and offered a more comfortable living space. All these features I want to introduce in my house.

for the construction i would like to use AAC blocks like Qcon or Superblocks. I might also consider a "massive roof" like this here

I want wood in my house but since I have about 10 huge termite mounds on my land i am well aware of the difficulties. Laminate might be a way to go. Especially for the cathedral ceiling. I might put the cheapest laminate there.

Cooling the house is a big issue. I want to have a breeze going through the house but there are also times I would need to close everything and let the AC do the work. Here I will look into geothermal cooling since w need a borehole for my water-supply anyway, it would be really "cool" to get some.

Lots of things to come

[Iolare]

Well lolare,

I am just in the very early planning stage, so i am not too useful on these issues There are so many nice house-planes out there but it seems to be hard to find a decent plan for a house on stilts. And it seem stilts are the way to go here as the locals have been doing it for hundreds of years.

I want a modern house without any "traditional thai style" details but it seem the house will still look very similar to a traditional house: Thai houses have steep roofs arching upwards with a cathedral ceiling inside . Windows and doors are carefully aligned to facilitate an uninterrupted flow and aid the circulation of air. In the hot and humid tropical climate, the airy, open quality of a Thai house and the broad overhangs of its roof protect the interior from both sun and rain. Elevated houses facilitate the circulation of air and offered a more comfortable living space. All these features I want to introduce in my house.

for the construction i would like to use AAC blocks like Qcon or Superblocks. I might also consider a "massive roof" like this here

I want wood in my house but since I have about 10 huge termite mounds on my land i am well aware of the difficulties. Laminate might be a way to go. Especially for the cathedral ceiling. I might put the cheapest laminate there.

Cooling the house is a big issue. I want to have a breeze going through the house but there are also times I would need to close everything and let the AC do the work. Here I will look into geothermal cooling since w need a borehole for my water-supply anyway, it would be really "cool" to get some.

Lots of things to come

Vansana,

I’m glad you responded again. I’m a little further along in the process than you, but as you can see from this forum, I’m still making choices about the final design. i plan to be underway with the construction in a few weeks, so it’s really decision time for me.

I don’t want a house with any superficial “Thai Style” ornamentation, but I’m very open to Thai ideas that work to make the house comfortable and livable in this climate. The roof pitch I’ve chosen is 30 degrees, so it’s not as steep as you will probably have, but the ceilings will be 3 meters high, with the cathedral areas, of course, higher.

I’m trying to be very conscious of airflow patterns too, and I’ll plant heat shielding trees on the west and south sides. I’d like to use A/C as little as possible.

I looked into geothermal cooling as well, and I’m very interested in it, but probably not on this house. They’re using it up in Minnesota, where I come from, but they emphasize the heating aspect. It works both ways though, and you have the added benefit of being able to heat your water for the hot water side of your plumbing system that way essentially for free. I have some web sites that I can link if you’d like.

I’ve looked into the lightweight concrete bricks for the side walls but probably won’t use them on this house because the contractors I’ve contacted aren’t used to them, and they need a special mortar with very precise joint thicknesses. I’m not sure the typical Thai worker is up for that. I really like the insulating properties, and the fact that you can work it with regular wood working tools, so maybe I’ll try it in the future. Is that massive roof you pictured made of light weight concrete panels?

I’m going to take a chance and put wood ceilings, cabinets, doors, and a few floors in my house. I’ll put in that underground termite protection system too, and keep my fingers crossed.

Best of luck with your project.

[jayenram]

I realise that this is not an answer to any of your original questions but these points I feel are worth considering depending upon your height.

I am 1.92 m tall and my foreman/supervisor was in the order of 1.54 m. If you are taller than Thais (as a lot of farangs are) the Thais will more than likely build around their own height, not yours.

Ceiling heights sufficient to accommodate fans that can’t be reached with arms outstretched (3.20 metre ceiling height in my case).

2.00 m high doors to the bathrooms instead of the ‘standard’ 1.80 m.

Work surfaces in the kitchen set high enough (we had to compromise on this one).

Wash hand basins in the bathroom set high enough (another compromise).

Door handles set at the correct height.

Wall lights at sufficient height to prevent contact with the head.

Height of the shower fitting sufficient to wash your hair.

Bathroom and other mirrors set at the correct height (another compromise).

[Iolare]

I realise that this is not an answer to any of your original questions but these points I feel are worth considering depending upon your height.

I am 1.92 m tall and my foreman/supervisor was in the order of 1.54 m. If you are taller than Thais (as a lot of farangs are) the Thais will more than likely build around their own height, not yours.

Ceiling heights sufficient to accommodate fans that can’t be reached with arms outstretched (3.20 metre ceiling height in my case).

2.00 m high doors to the bathrooms instead of the ‘standard’ 1.80 m.

Work surfaces in the kitchen set high enough (we had to compromise on this one).

Wash hand basins in the bathroom set high enough (another compromise).

Door handles set at the correct height.

Wall lights at sufficient height to prevent contact with the head.

Height of the shower fitting sufficient to wash your hair.

Bathroom and other mirrors set at the correct height (another compromise).

Jayenram,

Those are all good points, and pretty funny to me, being close to your height. I’m presently living in a very nice house, but the heights are all wrong for me. I have to really stoop to see myself to shave, and I can touch the ceilings without stretching. My wife, probably like yours is just over 5 feet tall, so life is full of compromises.

I'll keep on eye on the workers. Thanks.

[Lite Beer]

The most difficult thing I found was getting anough electric sockets fitted.

If you do not stand over them personally and mark the sockets on the wall you will end up with one in each room.

Thais don`t understand our needs for all these electrical appliances.

[chownah]

Has anyone mentioned the height of electrical outlets?....40 cm?...120c?

Ask the wife about this...might be another compromise.

Edited August 12, 2007 by chownah