53 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  No, THIS war began on Oct 7 th when Palestine invaded Israel .

That is an act of war . 

Israel confirmed then next day that they were now at war .

THIS war began on October 7 th 

Conflict between the two sides has been going on much longer though .

Its just  a deceitful  attempt by Palestine supporters to re write history so they didn't start the war

 

You can keep saying it all started on Oct 7th till the cows come home, you are wrong this has been going on since before Israel declared Statehood.

Granted Hamas started this stage of an ongoing war that the Zionist brothers started 20 or more years before the 1948 declaration.

6 hours ago, Galong said:

The war of 1948 was a very simple affair, actually. The problems kicked off when the United Nations generously offered to partition Palestine in 1947, giving the Jewish minority a disproportionately large share of the land. 
 

Then, when the British Mandate ended in May 1948 and the State of Israel was declared, the surrounding Arab nations, apparently ungrateful for this grand humanitarian gesture, decided to attack. Remember that part??

The result? Israel won, of course, and to keep the territory tidy, they ended up controlling even more land than the UN originally suggested... surprise. 

As an additional bonus, roughly 700,000 Palestinians fled or were expelled, leaving the vast majority of Palestine taken away and partitioned into Israel, the Jordanian-controlled West Bank, and the Egyptian-controlled Gaza Strip.
 

So, yes, the Arabs started the war... after the land had already been divided against their will. Problem solved!  Do facts = hatred?

Your bias is showing. Palestine was a fictious creation by the occupying colonialists. First the Ottoman Empire and then the British who picked up the pieces after the Ottoman Empire collapsed. You ignore the fact that a much larger area was populated by Hebrews/Israelites/Judeans or whatever you want to call them long before the Arabs migrated. There is a reason why people from the region were called Israelites or Jews. Hint: The Kingdom of Israel and the area called Judea.

 

The land you call Palestine was only created in 1922 by the Treaty of Sevres when the defeated ottoman empire was carved up by the victorious European powers of WWI.  The same process that created the proposed boundaries for Israel set up Lebanon, Jordan and the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and heled establish the borders of Syria, and Iraq. Israel was a small piece of land. Even today, its current land size of 20,000 sq. km. is a fraction of the size of its arab neighbors.

 

You mention 700,000 aranbs  expelled. Cute. You ignore that most  left voluntarily because the attacking arab nations promised that israel would be eliminated and the jews driven out, so that they could quickly return. The Arab attackers failed and after successive wars, lost buffer areas. You also ignore the fact that 1,000,000 arabs of the jewish faith were expelled from Arab.

Their assets, homes, belongings seized. In Iraq, they massacred the  jews. In north africa, the streets ran read with  people's blood.  As the years went by, the Arab countries stripped jews of basic civil rights. It culminated in forced expulsions  Jews were given 72 hours to leave Egypt. Europe certainly take them in. Those who could escape went to Israel. In Syria they were held hostage by the Assad regime.  If it wasn't for the arab hate, Israel would not have bene populated so quickly.

 

You do not accept the state of Israel. Fine. Then you should be consistent.  Jordan must be dissolved, Lebanon  reintegrated into Syria, and the borders of Iraq and Saudi arabia must be redone. Tens of millions of Arabs must be displaced. If Arabs who left Israel are to be compensated, then the jewish Arabs who left Arab countries must be compensated too. The Arabs started successive wars and have been focused on destroying israel to their detriment. While the Palestinian Arabs built boms and taught its children to hate, Israel built universities and social services. One culture wants to be a martyr and another wishes to live.

34 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

You can keep saying it all started on Oct 7th till the cows come home, you are wrong this has been going on since before Israel declared Statehood.

Granted Hamas started this stage of an ongoing war that the Zionist brothers started 20 or more years before the 1948 declaration.

 

I marvel at your 1970's era political manifesto. While the "zionists"  have caught your attention, the Arabs were doing similar in  Arabia, Syria, Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt and Trans Jordan. The Arabs were for more effective and inflicted much more damage and higher casualties than the "zionists". Why are you fixated on the "zionists"? 

Just now, Patong2021 said:

 

I marvel at your 1970's era political manifesto. While the "zionists"  have caught your attention, the Arabs were doing similar in  Arabia, Syria, Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt and Trans Jordan. The Arabs were for more effective and inflicted much more damage and higher casualties than the "zionists". Why are you fixated on the "zionists"? 

 

Because they are the problem, but lets not start that conversation until Netanyahu's statement tonight.

1 hour ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

You can keep saying it all started on Oct 7th till the cows come home, you are wrong this has been going on since before Israel declared Statehood.

Granted Hamas started this stage of an ongoing war that the Zionist brothers started 20 or more years before the 1948 declaration.

 

  Can I make any more simpler? 

Bullet points 

This current war began on Oct 7 th 

The conflict between the two has been going on for much longer

I am not saying the conflict began on Oct 7 th

I am saying THIS current war began on Oct 7 th  

 

15 hours ago, atpeace said:

It would react as every other country in the world that is much more powerful than the attacker.  The reaction would be quick and decisive destruction.  

you forgot the word "TOTAL" 

16 hours ago, billd766 said:

Give it to Greta Thunberg . At least she is DOING something and she also has principles.

 

Grets is a masked up character like this Trump man, all bringing destruction to yo arxse, Snake Pliskin style.

 

You better wake yo' arxse up!

7 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

Your bias is showing. Palestine was a fictious creation by the occupying colonialists. First the Ottoman Empire and then the British who picked up the pieces after the Ottoman Empire collapsed. You ignore the fact that a much larger area was populated by Hebrews/Israelites/Judeans or whatever you want to call them long before the Arabs migrated. There is a reason why people from the region were called Israelites or Jews. Hint: The Kingdom of Israel and the area called Judea.

 

The land you call Palestine was only created in 1922 by the Treaty of Sevres when the defeated ottoman empire was carved up by the victorious European powers of WWI.  The same process that created the proposed boundaries for Israel set up Lebanon, Jordan and the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and heled establish the borders of Syria, and Iraq. Israel was a small piece of land. Even today, its current land size of 20,000 sq. km. is a fraction of the size of its arab neighbors.

 

You mention 700,000 aranbs  expelled. Cute. You ignore that most  left voluntarily because the attacking arab nations promised that israel would be eliminated and the jews driven out, so that they could quickly return. The Arab attackers failed and after successive wars, lost buffer areas. You also ignore the fact that 1,000,000 arabs of the jewish faith were expelled from Arab.

Their assets, homes, belongings seized. In Iraq, they massacred the  jews. In north africa, the streets ran read with  people's blood.  As the years went by, the Arab countries stripped jews of basic civil rights. It culminated in forced expulsions  Jews were given 72 hours to leave Egypt. Europe certainly take them in. Those who could escape went to Israel. In Syria they were held hostage by the Assad regime.  If it wasn't for the arab hate, Israel would not have bene populated so quickly.

 

You do not accept the state of Israel. Fine. Then you should be consistent.  Jordan must be dissolved, Lebanon  reintegrated into Syria, and the borders of Iraq and Saudi arabia must be redone. Tens of millions of Arabs must be displaced. If Arabs who left Israel are to be compensated, then the jewish Arabs who left Arab countries must be compensated too. The Arabs started successive wars and have been focused on destroying israel to their detriment. While the Palestinian Arabs built boms and taught its children to hate, Israel built universities and social services. One culture wants to be a martyr and another wishes to live.

Nice try, but factually incorrect.  I am also not bias. I strongly dislike both sides. I just want my homeland to keep out of this whole ordeal as there is no way it will be resolved due to the ridiculous level of hatred that both sides have for each other and the fact that both sides are backed with mythology.

The idea that "Palestine" was a fictitious creation of the colonialists in 1922 is witty historical amnesia. The name is literally ancient, a Roman rebranding of Judea to Syria Palaestina in 135 CE, a deliberate political act to punish and sever the Jewish connection to the land after the Bar Kokhba revolt. For two millennia, the area was known to the world, including to its Arabophone inhabitants (many of whom are descendants of the region's pre-Arabization population), as Palestine or Filastin. The 1922 Treaty of Sèvres and the British Mandate merely drew the modern political boundaries, a process that created all the regional states: Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, and Iraq—not just Israel. None of the borders are divinely ancient, all are products of post-WWI colonial powers carving up the defeated Ottoman Empire.

Regarding the refugee crisis, the claim that 700,000 Palestinians in the 1948 Nakba "left voluntarily" is a comfortable myth. While some fled at the urging of Arab leaders, historical consensus, including from Israeli "New Historians," confirms that the majority were expelled or fled in terror due to military operations and massacres. You rightly point out the immense and tragic expulsion of approximately 850,000 to 1,000,000 Jews from Arab and Muslim countries, a devastating event of persecution, property seizure, and violence that largely depopulated ancient Jewish communities. The key difference is that the stateless Palestinians remained refugees, often deliberately unintegrated by host Arab nations, while Israel absorbed the vast majority of the Jewish refugees, fundamentally changing its demography. Both expulsions were human tragedies; one resulted in a state absorbing its exiled people, the other resulted in a people exiled from their land and remaining stateless.
 

The final demand for dissolving every modern state to be "consistent" is a powerful, if impractical, thought experiment. It highlights that the entire region's political map is artificial, not just Israel's. If compensation is required, consistency truly demands it for both the Palestinian refugees of the Nakba and the Jewish refugees from Arab and Muslim lands. The difference in focus: building universities versus engaging in cycles of armed conflict, reflects the tragic chasm between a secure, recognized state and a stateless, occupied population. It's difficult to build communities, schools, etc when the other side has the power, money, and backing to snub all efforts to do so. Again, I strongly dislike both sides. Both sides are vile in my opinion. This is an unwinnable battle. 

2 hours ago, Luuk Chaai said:

you forgot the word "TOTAL" 

It would react as every other country in the world that is much more powerful than the attacker.  The reaction would be quick and decisive destruction.  

you forgot the word "TOTAL" 

 

++++++++++++++

 

A person could make an argument that human nature can be evil at times but ignoring it is silly. 

 

Could only imagine what would happen if Delaware was a country (not a state ) controlled by a fanatical group that despised America.  If it attacked Washington DC and killed and raped thousands of it citizens, the USA wouldn't give a rats arse about what the international community considered a proportional response.  

38 minutes ago, Galong said:

It highlights that the entire region's political map is artificial, not just Israel's.

Good post and even though much of it is debatable, I concede all of it might be true. You're going back a long time 🙂  

 

Your quote above is what most seem to not consider.  All the world's political maps are artificial. We can dance around this fact or accept it and move forward.   Can't expect Israel to act any different than any other country throughout history that has created its borders at the expense of less powerful inhabitants.  It is what it is and being a more civilized society requires accepting the past and moving forward.  Backing Hamas will in all likelihood end badly and prolong the suffering.  They can't accept defeat and the suffering will continue.  

Any solution will have to be a compromise.

 

Neither side will like it, but must agree to make it work and forget the past.

13 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Any solution will have to be a compromise.

 

Neither side will like it, but must agree to make it work and forget the past.

I agree but people have to understand that this compromise will heavily favor Israel.  Compromises between nations is much different than those made between individuals that love/like each other.    

 

Also, compromises that involve sovereignty or identity sacrifices rarely succeed. But hey - why not try.  This region seems to be in an endless rinse and repeat cycle of suffering.

 

 

 

The total silence at the end of Hegseth's diatribe was deafening.

 

P.S. Don't try and justify by saying generals never applaud.

17 hours ago, AustinRacing said:

What a hero you are. All these groups were created to defend against occupiers. Such groups exist all around the world. Broaden your mind do some research instead of watching stuff on tv😂😂😂

Thank you so much for your advice. Notwithstanding my having lived and worked in the Middle East for many years, based in Riyadh and speaking Najdi Arabic, I nevertheless always appreciate receiving comments from others on issues affecting the region. Incidentally my right hand man in Saudi was a Palestinian, Ribhi Ryan, for whom I managed to obtain a work visa in spite of the reluctance of the Saudis to grant such visas to Palestinians.

18 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

Thank you so much for your advice. Notwithstanding my having lived and worked in the Middle East for many years, based in Riyadh and speaking Najdi Arabic, I nevertheless always appreciate receiving comments from others on issues affecting the region. Incidentally my right hand man in Saudi was a Palestinian, Ribhi Ryan, for whom I managed to obtain a work visa in spite of the reluctance of the Saudis to grant such visas to Palestinians.

Interesting. Are you Jewish?  That is a place I would never work for any amount of money 🙂

4 hours ago, atpeace said:

Interesting. Are you Jewish?  That is a place I would never work for any amount of money 🙂

Christian. Life for a foreigner in Saudi was relatively easy-going until the revolution in Iran after which things became tougher. However we were still able to ferment our own wine from grapes bought in local shops in Riyadh, and head into the desert on Fridays and Saturdays and enjoy some fairly wild parties there.

On 10/4/2025 at 6:52 PM, Thingamabob said:

Thank you so much for your advice. Notwithstanding my having lived and worked in the Middle East for many years, based in Riyadh and speaking Najdi Arabic, I nevertheless always appreciate receiving comments from others on issues affecting the region. Incidentally my right hand man in Saudi was a Palestinian, Ribhi Ryan, for whom I managed to obtain a work visa in spite of the reluctance of the Saudis to grant such visas to Palestinians.

Strange for someone who claims to know the region well is so ignorant of facts about the region. 

8 minutes ago, AustinRacing said:

Strange for someone who claims to know the region well is so ignorant of facts about the region. 

I was based in Riyadh during the 1970s/80s,but with additional responsibilities in the Emirates, Qatar and Iraq. Kindly spell out the facts about which you say I am ignorant.

6 hours ago, Thingamabob said:

I was based in Riyadh during the 1970s/80s,but with additional responsibilities in the Emirates, Qatar and Iraq. Kindly spell out the facts about which you say I am ignorant.

Well you’ve mentions eliminating organizations that were created solely to defend the rights of people to live according to international laws. Your claim of familiarity with the region is irrelevant. 

22 minutes ago, AustinRacing said:

Well you’ve mentions eliminating organizations that were created solely to defend the rights of people to live according to international laws. Your claim of familiarity with the region is irrelevant. 

I give up. Enjoy the rest of your day.

Unless we are going to have boots on the ground and or provide direct air support trumps words are empty…the hell will be delivered by the IDF not trump that’s just braggadocio for his rabid base’s titillation.

15 hours ago, AustinRacing said:

Well you’ve mentions eliminating organizations that were created solely to defend the rights of people to live according to international laws. Your claim of familiarity with the region is irrelevant. 

My familiarity with the region is not a claim, it's a fact.

And what absolute hell will Trump bring to the Palestinians?

 

Already they are targeted by drones, helicopter gunships. tanks and armoured vehicles, shot at by the IDF for target practice, starved of fuel, food and medicine, their villages, houses, condos and infrastructure stl0len and destroyed, blockaded by land, sea and air.

 

All Trump has to offer is to either use nuclear weapons, invade Gaza, or shout BOO very loudly.

 

Long on threats but short on detail.

 

Typical Trump statement.

5 hours ago, Thingamabob said:

My familiarity with the region is not a claim, it's a fact.

Not disputing your familiarity with the region. Disputing its relevance to subject matter. You could be designated a terrorist one day and be received in the WH the next day. A former Israeli PM was also designated a terrorist. Mandela was a terrorist. I think you get the message. People who resist occupation are often called terrorists by the occupiers. 

1 minute ago, AustinRacing said:

Not disputing your familiarity with the region. Disputing its relevance to subject matter. You could be designated a terrorist one day and be received in the WH the next day. A former Israeli PM was also designated a terrorist. Mandela was a terrorist. I think you get the message. People who resist occupation are often called terrorists by the occupiers. 

The killing of Israelis on 7 October 2023 in Israel, and the taking and torture of Israeli hostages, was not a case of resisting occupation, in my opinion. 

Many share your opinion. An independent thinker should consider all sides of the equation. Ask why people do that as well as condemning any inhuman action. Root cause is what they argue about. I’m not connected to either side. Just looking at it objectively it is Israel that started it all by trying to resurrect their glory days of king David ie restore the original land by stealing it from whoever is living there Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan etc. scary thing is they’re committed to expanding even more than what they have stolen already. But it is starting to backfire and likely the region will be pissed off so much that they’ll turn on them. American support is dwindling as they start to see the real Israel. 

On 10/4/2025 at 5:12 PM, spidermike007 said:

Well thanks for making us all aware of the fact that you are comfortable with genocide and the wholesale slaughter of innocent women and children. 

They are Muslim they are Hamas they are not innocent

9 minutes ago, wombat said:

They are Muslim they are Hamas they are not innocent

 

So collective punishment is ok?

On 10/9/2025 at 8:17 AM, JBChiangRai said:

 

So collective punishment is ok?

Why not?

6 minutes ago, wombat said:

Why not?

But my imaginary friend is better than your imaginary friend.