Global Correction

[VegasVic]

Vegas Vic ..............what is your response to this ?

As usual no doubt.............it will not happen because Vegas Vic is

correct and The Times of Londion is wrong ?

Israel 'prepared to attack' Iran nuclear plants

The Times

December 4, 2008

Israel is drawing up plans to attack Iran's nuclear facilities and is prepared to launch a strike without backing from the US, it has been reported.

Officials in the Israeli Defence Ministry told the Jerusalem Post that while they prefer to act in consultation with the US, they were preparing plans that would allow them to act in isolation.

"It is always better to coordinate," a senior Defence Ministry official told the newspaper. "But we are also preparing options that do not include coordination."

However defence officials played down the reports today, telling The Times that an attack by Israeli forces alone would probably fail to take out all of Iran’s nuclear facilities, which experts say are scattered across several sites, some deep underground.

Related Links

* Israel fears US will dither while Iran goes nuclear

* Iran 'has enough uranium to build a bomb'

“We could not risk an operation which would only partially succeed," one defence official told The Times.

"That would leave us open to a nuclear attack from Iran’s remaining weapons stock. Israel would likely need the support, the backing, of forces from a Western ally to successfully carry out the operation,” he said.

A senior Israeli official quotes in the Jerusalem Post said that while it would be difficult, it would not be impossible to launch a strike against Iran without permission from the US.

"There are a wide range of risks one takes when embarking on such an operation," a senior Israeli official was quoted as saying.

The US Airforce controls the Iraqi airspace Israel's jets would have to cross on a bombing mission and access to codes from the Americans, would “significantly improve” Israel’s chances of a successful strike on Iran, an official told The Times.

He added that because the Iranians have been moving the bunkers deep underground, sophisticated weaponry would be needed to successfully destroy the facilities.

Responding to reports that Israel would use low-yield nuclear “bunker-busters”, the official said the method was largely speculative and unreliable.

Ehud Olmert, the Israeli prime minister, has reportedly asked the US for a green light to attack Iranian facilities as recently as May.

According to Israeli officials, the US denied the request, although it outfitted Israel with the X-band radar system which would shave several crucial minutes off Israel’s reaction time to an Iranian missile launch, and allow the United States to oversee Israel’s airspace.

“There is always the option of Israel going it alone. It just does not seem like a good option at present time,” an Israeli MP told the Times.

There are three central locations where experts believe Iranian facilities are producing goods for nuclear weapons.

Israeli officials named these sites as: Natanz, where thousands of centrifuges produce enriched uranium; Isfahan, where 250 tons of gas are stores in tunnels; and Arak, where a heavy water reactor produces plutonium.

Israeli officials said they were heartened that international sanctions on Iran were having an effect, but did not feel they were enough to stop Tehran’s nuclear ambitions.

The most recent Israeli intelligence reports estimate that Iran will have enough enriched uranium for a nuclear weapon in late 2009, barring any interruptions in its programme.

"There is still time and there is no need to rush into an operation right now," another Israeli official said. "The regime there is already falling apart and will likely no longer be in power 10 years from now."

On Monday, Teheran dismissed the possibility of an Israeli strike, saying it didn't take Israel seriously.

"We think that regional and international developments and the complicated situation faced by Israel itself will not allow it to launch military strikes against other countries," Iranian Foreign Ministry spokesman Hassan Qashqavi told reporters in Teheran, adding that "Israel makes threats to promote its psychological and media warfare.

Some Israeli security officials fear that the Iranian retaliation for a strike on its facilities could include a large-scale missile attack on Israel from several Iranian allies, disruption of oil supplies to the West, and terror attacks against Jewish targets around the world.

The times of London has been an anti zionist rag for the past hundred years (perhaps even further back than that) this is just more sensationalistic BS generated because their readership is droping Israel will not take unilateral action against Iran period, end of story! Israel will wait for Obama to get inaugurated, and then let Obama work with the European nations to put tougher sanctions on Iran. First of all Israel does not even have the capability to "take out " all of the critical Iranian nuclear sites, because just as the article correctly points out most of the important sites are hardened underground facilities! I have an idea Midas, why don't you get educated on this subject before you post something like this next time

[teatree]

Schiff was spot on with his views regarding the health of the economy, when everyone else was laughing at him:

http://www.prisonplanet.com/peter-schiff-w...-and-again.html

"the money MUST BE backed up by GOLD and It is not..."

The US has been off of the gold standard for a couple of generations. Welcome to the 21st century.

anyone know more about this

Jersey’s Secret "Gold-Backed" Currency Set to Double

Located just off the coast of Great Britain is a tiny island with the world’s leading "gold-standard" currency. Unlike the plummeting U.S. dollar, this money, the Jersey Note, is fully backed by gold, and will never lose value due to inflation or global chaos. Over the next 18 months, investment expert Peter Schiff expects it to hand investors 70-100% gains… while the dollar sinks further.

, OK now that I have managed to stop laughing Let me see if I have this right "the plumetting U.S. Dollar"? Is that the same Dollar that the Pound was trading at $2 less than 5 months ago, or perhaps the same Dollar the the Euro was trading at $1.60 or the same Dollar that the Aussie dollar was nearly at par with just 5-6months ago? BTW JFYI in case you read nothing but gold bug rags, the Pound is now at $1.47/Dollar, the Euro is $1.268/Dollar and the Aussie dollar is at .64/Dollar, Yep that sure looks like the Dollar is falling off a cliff You gold bugs slay me, you just can't seem to get you narrow minds around the fact that there are deflationary forces out there as far as the eye can see, the Dollar is in a bull run and will continue on its upward path for some time to come, Oil is crashing as worldwide demand plumets, the COMEX will not default, Israel will not nuke Iran and FYI your guru Peter Schiff predictred $2000 gold before the end of 2008(nice call petey!). Good luck following Mr. Schiff or the other gold bug prognosticators (they haver all been as wrong as schiff and some more so) like Jimmy Rogers or Marc Faber, then of course there is the King of the goldbugs who has yet to be correct on any of his predictions the almighty Sinclair!

[midas]

Vegas Vic ..............what is your response to this ?

As usual no doubt.............it will not happen because Vegas Vic is

correct and The Times of Londion is wrong ?

Israel 'prepared to attack' Iran nuclear plants

The Times

December 4, 2008

Israel is drawing up plans to attack Iran's nuclear facilities and is prepared to launch a strike without backing from the US, it has been reported.

Officials in the Israeli Defence Ministry told the Jerusalem Post that while they prefer to act in consultation with the US, they were preparing plans that would allow them to act in isolation.

"It is always better to coordinate," a senior Defence Ministry official told the newspaper. "But we are also preparing options that do not include coordination."

However defence officials played down the reports today, telling The Times that an attack by Israeli forces alone would probably fail to take out all of Iran’s nuclear facilities, which experts say are scattered across several sites, some deep underground.

Related Links

* Israel fears US will dither while Iran goes nuclear

* Iran 'has enough uranium to build a bomb'

“We could not risk an operation which would only partially succeed," one defence official told The Times.

"That would leave us open to a nuclear attack from Iran’s remaining weapons stock. Israel would likely need the support, the backing, of forces from a Western ally to successfully carry out the operation,” he said.

A senior Israeli official quotes in the Jerusalem Post said that while it would be difficult, it would not be impossible to launch a strike against Iran without permission from the US.

"There are a wide range of risks one takes when embarking on such an operation," a senior Israeli official was quoted as saying.

The US Airforce controls the Iraqi airspace Israel's jets would have to cross on a bombing mission and access to codes from the Americans, would “significantly improve” Israel’s chances of a successful strike on Iran, an official told The Times.

He added that because the Iranians have been moving the bunkers deep underground, sophisticated weaponry would be needed to successfully destroy the facilities.

Responding to reports that Israel would use low-yield nuclear “bunker-busters”, the official said the method was largely speculative and unreliable.

Ehud Olmert, the Israeli prime minister, has reportedly asked the US for a green light to attack Iranian facilities as recently as May.

According to Israeli officials, the US denied the request, although it outfitted Israel with the X-band radar system which would shave several crucial minutes off Israel’s reaction time to an Iranian missile launch, and allow the United States to oversee Israel’s airspace.

“There is always the option of Israel going it alone. It just does not seem like a good option at present time,” an Israeli MP told the Times.

There are three central locations where experts believe Iranian facilities are producing goods for nuclear weapons.

Israeli officials named these sites as: Natanz, where thousands of centrifuges produce enriched uranium; Isfahan, where 250 tons of gas are stores in tunnels; and Arak, where a heavy water reactor produces plutonium.

Israeli officials said they were heartened that international sanctions on Iran were having an effect, but did not feel they were enough to stop Tehran’s nuclear ambitions.

The most recent Israeli intelligence reports estimate that Iran will have enough enriched uranium for a nuclear weapon in late 2009, barring any interruptions in its programme.

"There is still time and there is no need to rush into an operation right now," another Israeli official said. "The regime there is already falling apart and will likely no longer be in power 10 years from now."

On Monday, Teheran dismissed the possibility of an Israeli strike, saying it didn't take Israel seriously.

"We think that regional and international developments and the complicated situation faced by Israel itself will not allow it to launch military strikes against other countries," Iranian Foreign Ministry spokesman Hassan Qashqavi told reporters in Teheran, adding that "Israel makes threats to promote its psychological and media warfare.

Some Israeli security officials fear that the Iranian retaliation for a strike on its facilities could include a large-scale missile attack on Israel from several Iranian allies, disruption of oil supplies to the West, and terror attacks against Jewish targets around the world.

The times of London has been an anti zionist rag for the past hundred years (perhaps even further back than that) this is just more sensationalistic BS generated because their readership is droping Israel will not take unilateral action against Iran period, end of story! Israel will wait for Obama to get inaugurated, and then let Obama work with the European nations to put tougher sanctions on Iran. First of all Israel does not even have the capability to "take out " all of the critical Iranian nuclear sites, because just as the article correctly points out most of the important sites are hardened underground facilities! I have an idea Midas, why don't you get educated on this subject before you post something like this next time

I am educated about it Vegas Vic- but maybe I have the same anti zionist

feelings as you sat the Times has and since I found out about the make up of your Fed

I am surprised more Americans are not anti zionist as well these days. WAKE UP AMERICA

BECAUSE YOU ARE BEING SCREWED !

Of course it is easy for you to say this attack will never happen because if you end up being WRONG - the world

will be thrown into such chaos resulting from the retaliation from Iran

and it neighbours that I will probably never get the chance to post

on this forum that YOU WERE WRONG after all !

[LivinLOS]

. Ignore

Edited December 6, 2008 by LivinLOS

[VegasVic]

Vegas Vic ..............what is your response to this ?

As usual no doubt.............it will not happen because Vegas Vic is

correct and The Times of Londion is wrong ?

Israel 'prepared to attack' Iran nuclear plants

The Times

December 4, 2008

Israel is drawing up plans to attack Iran's nuclear facilities and is prepared to launch a strike without backing from the US, it has been reported.

Officials in the Israeli Defence Ministry told the Jerusalem Post that while they prefer to act in consultation with the US, they were preparing plans that would allow them to act in isolation.

"It is always better to coordinate," a senior Defence Ministry official told the newspaper. "But we are also preparing options that do not include coordination."

However defence officials played down the reports today, telling The Times that an attack by Israeli forces alone would probably fail to take out all of Iran’s nuclear facilities, which experts say are scattered across several sites, some deep underground.

Related Links

* Israel fears US will dither while Iran goes nuclear

* Iran 'has enough uranium to build a bomb'

“We could not risk an operation which would only partially succeed," one defence official told The Times.

"That would leave us open to a nuclear attack from Iran’s remaining weapons stock. Israel would likely need the support, the backing, of forces from a Western ally to successfully carry out the operation,” he said.

A senior Israeli official quotes in the Jerusalem Post said that while it would be difficult, it would not be impossible to launch a strike against Iran without permission from the US.

"There are a wide range of risks one takes when embarking on such an operation," a senior Israeli official was quoted as saying.

The US Airforce controls the Iraqi airspace Israel's jets would have to cross on a bombing mission and access to codes from the Americans, would “significantly improve” Israel’s chances of a successful strike on Iran, an official told The Times.

He added that because the Iranians have been moving the bunkers deep underground, sophisticated weaponry would be needed to successfully destroy the facilities.

Responding to reports that Israel would use low-yield nuclear “bunker-busters”, the official said the method was largely speculative and unreliable.

Ehud Olmert, the Israeli prime minister, has reportedly asked the US for a green light to attack Iranian facilities as recently as May.

According to Israeli officials, the US denied the request, although it outfitted Israel with the X-band radar system which would shave several crucial minutes off Israel’s reaction time to an Iranian missile launch, and allow the United States to oversee Israel’s airspace.

“There is always the option of Israel going it alone. It just does not seem like a good option at present time,” an Israeli MP told the Times.

There are three central locations where experts believe Iranian facilities are producing goods for nuclear weapons.

Israeli officials named these sites as: Natanz, where thousands of centrifuges produce enriched uranium; Isfahan, where 250 tons of gas are stores in tunnels; and Arak, where a heavy water reactor produces plutonium.

Israeli officials said they were heartened that international sanctions on Iran were having an effect, but did not feel they were enough to stop Tehran’s nuclear ambitions.

The most recent Israeli intelligence reports estimate that Iran will have enough enriched uranium for a nuclear weapon in late 2009, barring any interruptions in its programme.

"There is still time and there is no need to rush into an operation right now," another Israeli official said. "The regime there is already falling apart and will likely no longer be in power 10 years from now."

On Monday, Teheran dismissed the possibility of an Israeli strike, saying it didn't take Israel seriously.

"We think that regional and international developments and the complicated situation faced by Israel itself will not allow it to launch military strikes against other countries," Iranian Foreign Ministry spokesman Hassan Qashqavi told reporters in Teheran, adding that "Israel makes threats to promote its psychological and media warfare.

Some Israeli security officials fear that the Iranian retaliation for a strike on its facilities could include a large-scale missile attack on Israel from several Iranian allies, disruption of oil supplies to the West, and terror attacks against Jewish targets around the world.

The times of London has been an anti zionist rag for the past hundred years (perhaps even further back than that) this is just more sensationalistic BS generated because their readership is droping Israel will not take unilateral action against Iran period, end of story! Israel will wait for Obama to get inaugurated, and then let Obama work with the European nations to put tougher sanctions on Iran. First of all Israel does not even have the capability to "take out " all of the critical Iranian nuclear sites, because just as the article correctly points out most of the important sites are hardened underground facilities! I have an idea Midas, why don't you get educated on this subject before you post something like this next time

I am educated about it Vegas Vic- but maybe I have the same anti zionist

feelings as you sat the Times has and since I found out about the make up of your Fed

I am surprised more Americans are not anti zionist as well these days. WAKE UP AMERICA

BECAUSE YOU ARE BEING SCREWED !

Of course it is easy for you to say this attack will never happen because if you end up being WRONG - the world

will be thrown into such chaos resulting from the retaliation from Iran

and it neighbours that I will probably never get the chance to post

on this forum that YOU WERE WRONG after all !

Sure And gold will go to $5000/ounce, I know all the doomsday nonsense propogated by schiff, sinclair, rogers and faber et al Why don't you lighten up and have a Singha there buddy!

[midas]

Sure And gold will go to $5000/ounce, I know all the doomsday nonsense propogated by schiff, sinclair, rogers and faber et al Why don't you lighten up and have a Singha there buddy!

Even Fox News carried the story last night - are they anti zionist

as well Vegas Vic ? I would rather read the " nonsense propogated by schiff, sinclair, rogers and faber "

than the crap you write any day.

I am fine thanks and I believe it is you and your fellow countrymen

that need the Singha ! How must it feel for the average American to go to work every

day not knowing that behind the scenes they being mainipulated to hel_l

- work sleep, work sleep to pay more taxes so the private bankers at the Fed

can put away their fortunes for their future ?

[AlexLah]

A very long read and maybe twice or thrice a read about how the market is manipulated.

http://news.goldseek.com/GoldSeek/1228496400.php

[SirMarjAlot]

I don't think a global bust is coming, nor do I believe this fed intervention (which was anticipated and pointed out yesterday by me)to bail out their member banks options desks is going to put a floor under this market for very long. It might though, and it would be instructive for you to look at the events of Oct 15, 1998 to confirm that.

Funny reading the thread from the beginning - looks like things are falling through the floor to me.

[zeusbheld]

i get the impression that Vegas Vic has all the world leaders' personal numbers in his mobile, and is called upon by them to consult regularly.

[lannarebirth]

I don't think a global bust is coming, nor do I believe this fed intervention (which was anticipated and pointed out yesterday by me)to bail out their member banks options desks is going to put a floor under this market for very long. It might though, and it would be instructive for you to look at the events of Oct 15, 1998 to confirm that.

Funny reading the thread from the beginning - looks like things are falling through the floor to me.

Looks like I nailed the swing low.

[midas]

i get the impression that Vegas Vic has all the world leaders' personal numbers in his mobile, and is called upon by them to consult regularly.

that could explain why we are in such a bloody mess

[VegasVic]

Sure And gold will go to $5000/ounce, I know all the doomsday nonsense propogated by schiff, sinclair, rogers and faber et al Why don't you lighten up and have a Singha there buddy!

Even Fox News carried the story last night - are they anti zionist

as well Vegas Vic ? I would rather read the " nonsense propogated by schiff, sinclair, rogers and faber "

than the crap you write any day.

I am fine thanks and I believe it is you and your fellow countrymen

that need the Singha ! How must it feel for the average American to go to work every

day not knowing that behind the scenes they being mainipulated to hel_l

- work sleep, work sleep to pay more taxes so the private bankers at the Fed

can put away their fortunes for their future ?

More conspiracy theories eh midas! On second thought perhaps you had better not break open that case of Singha, also it might be a good idea for you to stay away from sharp objects

[midas]

Sure And gold will go to $5000/ounce, I know all the doomsday nonsense propogated by schiff, sinclair, rogers and faber et al Why don't you lighten up and have a Singha there buddy!

Even Fox News carried the story last night - are they anti zionist

as well Vegas Vic ? I would rather read the " nonsense propogated by schiff, sinclair, rogers and faber "

than the crap you write any day.

I am fine thanks and I believe it is you and your fellow countrymen

that need the Singha ! How must it feel for the average American to go to work every

day not knowing that behind the scenes they being mainipulated to hel_l

- work sleep, work sleep to pay more taxes so the private bankers at the Fed

can put away their fortunes for their future ? :jerk:

More conspiracy theories eh midas! On second thought perhaps you had better not break open that case of Singha, also it might be a good idea for you to stay away from sharp objects

Vic you are a

[BlackJack]

Sure And gold will go to $5000/ounce, I know all the doomsday nonsense propogated by schiff, sinclair, rogers and faber et al Why don't you lighten up and have a Singha there buddy!

Even Fox News carried the story last night - are they anti zionist

as well Vegas Vic ? I would rather read the " nonsense propogated by schiff, sinclair, rogers and faber "

than the crap you write any day.

I am fine thanks and I believe it is you and your fellow countrymen

that need the Singha ! How must it feel for the average American to go to work every

day not knowing that behind the scenes they being mainipulated to hel_l

- work sleep, work sleep to pay more taxes so the private bankers at the Fed

can put away their fortunes for their future ? :jerk:

More conspiracy theories eh midas! On second thought perhaps you had better not break open that case of Singha, also it might be a good idea for you to stay away from sharp objects

Vic you are a

heres an interesting history lesson

http://naldi.web.id/?p=46

conspiring to control the government and banking has been the agenda of J P Morgan for nearly 100 years

[midas]

Sure And gold will go to $5000/ounce, I know all the doomsday nonsense propogated by schiff, sinclair, rogers and faber et al Why don't you lighten up and have a Singha there buddy!

Even Fox News carried the story last night - are they anti zionist

as well Vegas Vic ? I would rather read the " nonsense propogated by schiff, sinclair, rogers and faber "

than the crap you write any day.

I am fine thanks and I believe it is you and your fellow countrymen

that need the Singha ! How must it feel for the average American to go to work every

day not knowing that behind the scenes they being mainipulated to hel_l

- work sleep, work sleep to pay more taxes so the private bankers at the Fed

can put away their fortunes for their future ?

More conspiracy theories eh midas! On second thought perhaps you had better not break open that case of Singha, also it might be a good idea for you to stay away from sharp objects :jerk:

Vic you are a

heres an interesting history lesson

http://naldi.web.id/?p=46

conspiring to control the government and banking has been the agenda of J P Morgan for nearly 100 years

It certainly makes you wonder why Vegas Vic is so quick to dismiss any reference

to these threats - whichever thread they are in I dont believe that even

Vic can be that dumb

[Khun Jean]

The only way the Federal (it is not federal) Reserve (they don't have reserves) Bank (it is not a bank) can save their a$$e$ is to find/create a war somewhere which needs enormous amounts of money.

If people revert to gold, their limitless profits are impossible. So ANY means of preventing that will be tried.

[flying]

The only way the Federal (it is not federal) Reserve (they don't have reserves) Bank (it is not a bank) can save their a$e$ is to find/create a war somewhere which needs enormous amounts of money.

If people revert to gold, their limitless profits are impossible. So ANY means of preventing that will be tried.

Sad but history does prove your point.

Look what happened when a certain head decided to sell his oil in Euros & make a 17% increase in his profits.

They could not stand for that so did an about face in Afganistan & went after him instead of their supposed target. Caught him disposed of him & are still parked in his house. Looks like they have no intention of leaving either.

The most important thing is like you say but, the easiest way to keep the USD as the world currency is to keep it pegged to Oil. They will stay in that mans home & make sure it stays that way.

EDIT....PS: This is 10 minutes well spent.

I have read many reasons why the CPI (consumer price index ) is really a CP-Lie & this little clip

explains it quite well.

Edited December 10, 2008 by flying

[flying]

Investor Steinhardt asks who are the villains?

http://www.reuters.com/article/InvestmentO...E4B95KP20081210

Edited December 11, 2008 by flying

[ace]

The only way the Federal (it is not federal) Reserve (they don't have reserves) Bank (it is not a bank) can save their a$$e$ is to find/create a war somewhere which needs enormous amounts of money.

If people revert to gold, their limitless profits are impossible. So ANY means of preventing that will be tried.

You don't require a war to stoke inflation, when you're handing out $100 billion cheques.

[BlackJack]

the current situation is like a clogged toilet

money (liquid) is being pumped in to move the clog

once the clog is removed there will be a lot of liquid

another term for this is inflation

inflation is what drives countries forward

major countries of the G7 are now printing money (liquid) as fast as they can

get ready for inflation

buy half price stocks now and enjoy the ride up.

the sky is not falling

[zorro1]

the current situation is like a clogged toilet

money (liquid) is being pumped in to move the clog

once the clog is removed there will be a lot of liquid

another term for this is inflation

inflation is what drives countries forward

major countries of the G7 are now printing money (liquid) as fast as they can

get ready for inflation

buy half price stocks now and enjoy the ride up.

the sky is not falling

agreed I have been catching falling knives in the last month and takes guts but you got to buy when others are fearful! it will pay off handsomely in next 5-10 yrs

[flying]

buy half price stocks now and enjoy the ride up.

the sky is not falling

No offense intended but you are making a assumtion based on a bubble.

Yes Stocks may be half of their inflated price.

But neither you nor I know if they have even reached their true non bubble price much less half of that.

Good luck to you though.

[Naam]

the current situation is like a clogged toilet

money (liquid) is being pumped in to move the clog

once the clog is removed there will be a lot of liquid

another term for this is inflation

inflation is what drives countries forward

major countries of the G7 are now printing money (liquid) as fast as they can

get ready for inflation

buy half price stocks now and enjoy the ride up.

the sky is not falling

agreed I have been catching falling knives in the last month and takes guts but you got to buy when others are fearful! it will pay off handsomely in next 5-10 yrs

it might take a bit longer but don't worry. keep on flying cattle class your heirs will fly first class!

[henryalleman]

1. What grates me about this is not the loss of cards. I have tons as they send them all the time with high limits.

I guess because I have great credit & a business.

But now I get mails saying they are canceling this one or that because I have not used it in 24 months.

Fine but I have also heard that having cards canceled is not great for your credit rating as it never says why they are canceled.

2. Is it any wonder this system is so messed up?

see above please:

1. why do you accept those ''tons'' of credit cards if you don't need them; why not send them back if you didn't ask for them in the first place ?

2. Of course the system is so messed up because America is literally floating on the SYSTEM of carrying and paying with credit cards. The average American carries 7 CC's

That's unheard of in the majority of countries in the Europe. Most people in the Europe* pay either cash (declining percentages) or debit cards. NOT with CC's !!!

* a lot of people never realize(d) that Europe is a LOT larger than the USA; we have 730 million people and 500 Million in -just- the 27-EU countries !

LaoPo

Also take in account that the Europeans are big savers. depending on the country its between 8 and 12% of their income.

[henryalleman]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/04/business...f=worldbusiness.

Another 10 Billion...........

Mentioned already here; the ''news'' was published on the day Citigroup dropped 22%...losing more Billions of it's market value...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Global-Corre...50#entry2375150

That China isn't investing in the West at the moment is logical from their point of view; clean your own kitchen first I would say. That's why the buying of a Spanish Highway Operating company for $ 10.2 Billion is rather odd, softly spoken.

LaoPo

Strange that China said they will not invest in the west, because they just announced they will build a car factory in Bulgaria.

[LaoPo]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/04/business...f=worldbusiness.

Another 10 Billion...........

Mentioned already here; the ''news'' was published on the day Citigroup dropped 22%...losing more Billions of it's market value...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Global-Corre...50#entry2375150

That China isn't investing in the West at the moment is logical from their point of view; clean your own kitchen first I would say. That's why the buying of a Spanish Highway Operating company for $ 10.2 Billion is rather odd, softly spoken.

LaoPo

Strange that China said they will not invest in the west, because they just announced they will build a car factory in Bulgaria.

Yes, I read that also but the Great Wall Company, with 18,000 employees, is a privately owned company and Hong Kong listed and it's not "China" if you know what I mean.

They're talking about an IDEA for a € 80 Million investment, planning to produce cars, NOT that they will build a car factory.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if the IDEA (plans) will be put on hold for the time being as it's not really an excellent time to start up a car factory...is it ?

But, it's impolite in Chinese culture to cancel the plans during negotiations which were likely in place already for quite some time. Chinese negotiations take a long time..very long.

LaoPo

[bingobongo]

the current situation is like a clogged toilet

money (liquid) is being pumped in to move the clog

once the clog is removed there will be a lot of liquid

another term for this is inflation

inflation is what drives countries forward

major countries of the G7 are now printing money (liquid) as fast as they can

get ready for inflation

buy half price stocks now and enjoy the ride up.

the sky is not falling

agreed I have been catching falling knives in the last month and takes guts but you got to buy when others are fearful! it will pay off handsomely in next 5-10 yrs

thats the difference between those with money and those wihout, some use "guts" and others use their "brains"

congratulations, spoken like a true amateur (aka bagholder), so basically, your money is dead money for 5 to 10 years? pure genius, pure genius

today's lesson is the word: CAPITAL TRAP = a misallocation of resources in a declining market

example: zorro1 invested in a capital trap and will not see positive returns net inflation for a decade

[dageshi]

Gents, consider this real carefully.

The stock market is probably not going to be the place to be for the next 5 years at least, why? Because we've gone from an environment of massive amounts of credit available to very little, companies need working capital they can get it two ways, issue more stock which dilutes existing share holders or they can issue bonds in order to raise capital.

Previously capital was available so freely that yields on corporate bonds were very low, now because no one is lending the yields on bonds are much much higher, your talking 8+% on alot of very decent companies. So you have a choice, do you A) lend money to companies, get paid 8% yield and be guaranteed to get your principal back. In the event of a bankruptsy your higher up the pecking order in terms of getting your money back, certainly higher than stock holders. buy their stocks, watch while the dividend is lowered because they are busy paying 8% to the bond holders in order to operate and possibly get diluted when they issue new stock.

Equity like returns for bonds, no brainer!

So before stocks can start a new bull market the cash will go to bonds in order to shore up the companies need for capital.

Untill you see that happening you should be nowhere near stocks, they will fall further because money will withdraw from the stock market in order to take advantage of the yields on bonds which are inherently safer.

Bond holders get paid before stock holders, simple as that.

[flying]

http://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=2060108...&refer=home

What ever happened to...... government of the people, by the people, and for the people

Edited December 14, 2008 by flying

[lannarebirth]

http://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=2060108...&refer=home

What ever happened to...... government of the people, by the people, and for the people

It's the people that are the problem. This fiasco could never have happened if the peoples greed and ignorance hadn't co-opted them into these "house of cards" financial schemes . The people abdicated their role of citzen watchdog and legislator. The people wouldn't have been too upset about the bailout (after all its their kids that will pay for it, not them) if it had only made their stocks go back up. It hasn't so far and now the people want to know why, and to who the money is going? The pople are going to reap what they have sown. Going to hurt alot of other people in the process.

The average person uses less time and judgement in deciding where to place their capital and ajudging risks than they do in buying a car or planning their next vacation. fuc_k the people.