Would You Be Concerned If....

[Boksida]

TP...looking at the pic you posted it looks more like a drilling rig that they have set up rather than a pile driver...have you checked.?

It's definitely a pile driver.

[ThaiPauly]

They have moved it now to within 1 metre of the wall. But we have spoken to them and voiced our concernsThey are saying that it wont be a problem , but will wait for the foreman to come to give his fianl opion.They say the earth is very soft and it won't do any damage. They keep starting it up ....and then shutting it off...its like torture...but all we can do is wait.

The weight of the actual pile driver they have told us is 4,750 kilos, slightly heavier than me.

[ThaiPauly]

I take it that it's not on your land!

Unless you have some strange clause in your land title that stops people doing what they like with their own nearby land, I'm not sure what you expect to be able to do.

There's plenty of skyscrapers in Bangkok that are 20 metres apart, what exactly do you expect to happen?

Perhaps you should buy more land next time if you want to dictate what people can do nearby.

You are missing the point.

Of course I have no control over what they do on their own land. Why should I?

My concern is that they will damage my home.

Does that make me stupid?

[chuchok]

They have moved it now to within 1 metre of the wall. But we have spoken to them and voiced our concernsThey are saying that it wont be a problem , but will wait for the foreman to come to give his fianl opion.They say the earth is very soft and it won't do any damage. They keep starting it up ....and then shutting it off...its like torture...but all we can do is wait.

The weight of the actual pile driver they have told us is 4,750 kilos, slightly heavier than me.

How big are the posts being rammed?If they are slightly bigger than say a corner fence post and the ground is soft,then maybe it won't be too bad at all....that's unless they want to ram em thru to bedrock??

[tayto]

Just sent them an e-mail.

info /at/ lh.co.th

Maybe more might help and threaten boycott.

[Hog Head]

I have a fair bit of experience in this

You need to hire an engineering consultant to do a pre-construction survey, noting current structural damage. Ideally this would include some sort of crack monitoring devices such as:

http://www.rstinstruments.com/PDF/Tell%20T...%20EXB0008E.pdf

These tell- tales are cheap at about 10 dollars ea.

Project Management Consultants in CM - K. Somchai is a senior civil engineer that I have worked with, and can arrange this work

Better yet would be to monitor crack movement or propagation dynamically using electrical crack meters and a data but this will be much more expensive, and perhaps overkill unless serious cracks develop

http://www.rstinstruments.com/PDF/Crack%20...%20EXB0007G.pdf

Differential settlement of the structure and pool is an issue and should be monitored. There are several ways to do this, and it is a function of cost vs accuracy.

I can give you a few ideas should you decide to go this route.

Vibration and noise monitoring is simple and you can rent a device like this:

http://www.rstinstruments.com/PDF/BlastmateII%20ELB0021C.pdf

It can be configured a number of ways and will record PPV (peak particle velocity) and noise every x seconds in strip chart mode, or triggered by the vibration itself

RST Instruments has an office in Hong Kong and local agent in BKK. Another supplier I am aware of is STS in Bangkok but their technical skills are not at the same level as RST

You may wish to consider asking the Contractor and piling sub-contractor for a copy of their liability insurance. Rest assured that your concerns are not new news to them.

Whatever you do, do it now and not after piling starts.

[cmsally]

The thing I don't understand is, what do they need to do, that requires pile driving close to your fence.

Do your normal 2 storey housing developments require piledriving? Someone like Land & House should have enough land that they don't need to come anywhere near your fence.

I would advise action taken before damage to your house is done otherwise you will be posting on here in 4-5yrs time about your drawn out claim for damages!

Also contacting someone in a prominent position in BKK rather than the contractors. The company ultimately have to take responsibility and the contractors will be long gone.

Also who is your local Or Bor Tor? Check them for building regulations in regard to height and proximity.

[Hog Head]

My 2 storey Mae Rim house is piled. In the end it is how comfortable you are with the factor of safety with a spread footing.

Most owners do not understand the importance of engineered foundations and leave it to the contractors experience. Unlike most homeowners I drilled several geotechnical investigation boreholes and did the engineering to determine foundation design. The Contractors seat of the pants, "what I always do" method gave a factor of safety of zero.

Piling cost was 0.5% of the construction cost, and very reasonable given the peace of mind

YMMV

The thing I don't understand is, what do they need to do, that requires pile driving close to your fence.

Do your normal 2 storey housing developments require piledriving?

[Bill97]

They have moved it now to within 1 metre of the wall.

Building regulations require 2 meters clear space between buildings and property lines, if the information I repeatedly received is correct. Is the pile going in one meter from the wall or is just the pile driver that close? You might check the set back requirements in your area to see if they are within specifications.

[ThaiPauly]

The thing I don't understand is, what do they need to do, that requires pile driving close to your fence.

Do your normal 2 storey housing developments require piledriving? Someone like Land & House should have enough land that they don't need to come anywhere near your fence.

I would advise action taken before damage to your house is done otherwise you will be posting on here in 4-5yrs time about your drawn out claim for damages!

Also contacting someone in a prominent position in BKK rather than the contractors. The company ultimately have to take responsibility and the contractors will be long gone.

Also who is your local Or Bor Tor? Check them for building regulations in regard to height and proximity.

.

Sally, I am trying to do everything to reslove this issue before they do any damage.

I am going to the local Bor Tor office in he morning. As I previously stated they are not working today as they are counting referendum votes, we already went there.

I have e-mailed L & H head office.

I have a police report.

I have many many pictures of my "undamaged" house.

I have involved the owner of my Moo Baan

I think the Pile Drivers are having problems or concerns.

They have gone for the da, so it looks like we have brought some more time.

Bill 97, I will take up that issue regarding the space betwen the walls tomorrow at the Government Office- Thanks for the tip

TP

[singa-traz]

I take it that it's not on your land!

Unless you have some strange clause in your land title that stops people doing what they like with their own nearby land, I'm not sure what you expect to be able to do.

There's plenty of skyscrapers in Bangkok that are 20 metres apart, what exactly do you expect to happen?

Perhaps you should buy more land next time if you want to dictate what people can do nearby.

In Bangkok, Pile Drivers are no longer authorized, you have to use the drilling method, to prevent damage to existing building.

[cmsally]

You may find that the 2m rule doesn't apply for a wall with no windows or openable windows.

Still, don't see too many houses so close to boundaries even if the blocks of land are small.

Be sure to mention to the Or Bor Tor that you have contacted the company in BKK as members of the Or Bor Tor might be the contractor or friend of and might try to brush you off.

[tigerbeer]

i hope you stop them from the piling. would set a precedence of doing something in future to their "no <deleted>" attitude.

[ThaiPauly]

Well they buggered off yesterday lunchtime and have not returned. Reckon the subbies are scared to proceed.

We went to the government offices today and an official will be visiting tomorrow.

Fingers crossed.

[meadish_sweetball]

Good luck!

[Totster]

Moved to real estate section at OP's request

Totster

[Gary A]

Apparently you do have some recourse. I was talking to a guy in Pattaya who had that very same concern you have. The construction company was very sensitive to having any legal problems and promised to repair any damage they may cause. He had that in writing. One morning the guy went out to have a swim and his pool was cracked and empty. He immediately went to see the construction foreman and they negotiated a date for repairs. They finished the pile driving then sent a crew with an excavator to start repairs. The guy was quite pleased with the repairs and ended up with a better pool than he had. His house wasn't damaged.

[higgy88]

TP, just to throw in my 2 cents. If they all try to gang up on you, telling you "don't worry, it'll be ok, there won't be any problems" etc. don't accept that. Don't let the burden of proof fall on you to prove that there will be a problem. Tell them simply that you don't believe them. I have found this to be a very good conversation stopper. Hold your ground, and try to make the burden of proof fall on them to prove that there won't be a problem. I think now would be a good time to make a trip to the civil engineering dept of CMU. There was a Canadian woman married to a Thai who taught there, but that was about 15 years ago. There are probably others by now, and most of the Thai professors had outside activities and businesses to supliment their meager University salaries. Check it out and see if you can find someone with knowledge, experience, and most important high status as a University prof to write a letter saying that the possibly does exist that some damage may occur, and to give some of his/her technical reasons. No need for a full blown engineering environmental impact study to be done, especially paid for by you, but the people who are doing the work should have done something like this when using this method of construction, which would have been included in the building plans and approved by the local gov't. Tell them you want to see it. Let them tell you they didn't do it. Then tell them you want it done. As I said, put the burden of proof on them to prove that there will not be any problems to your house.

Higgy

[ThaiPauly]

Thanks fo the replies Garry & Higgy.

They have not turned up again this morning...thats two and a half days now, although the driver is now only 2 metres from the wall.

I reckon they are defiatley woried.

A Civil Engineer from the Government Office is coming today to look at the situation.

I have not had a reply from L & H but no further sign of activity. I have threatened them with as much bad publicity as you can throw a stick at, plus we have our restaurant right opposite the front gates of their development....should they do any damage , I am sure that many people thinking of buying there will visit our restaurant....and......

We have just spoken to the Government Engineer and he is coming around mid-day. Depending on what he has to say, if he tells us it will be OK we will then contact the civil engineer at CMU

Whoops spoke to soon ...they have just turned up....'ere we go

Edited August 22, 2007 by ThaiPauly

[nonthaburial]

interesting topic, I rent a house in Nonthaburi and in the past 24 months my back verandah and the kitchen have started to subside. Landlord informed and yesterday a crew moved in to start demolition. They say the foundations are inadequate and will have to be redone.

Does that mean I will be subjected to VERY close pile driving as well or are there other ways these new foundations can be done ??

[ThaiPauly]

interesting topic, I rent a house in Nonthaburi and in the past 24 months my back verandah and the kitchen have started to subside. Landlord informed and yesterday a crew moved in to start demolition. They say the foundations are inadequate and will have to be redone.

Does that mean I will be subjected to VERY close pile driving as well or are there other ways these new foundations can be done ??

luckily for you you rent

[ThaiPauly]

My Wife and Builder have had a conversation with the foreman of the piledriving company.

He is prepared to wait till the Engineer has been.

If the Govt Enginer says its too dangerous then he won't proceed.

He is pissed off though as the cost of erecting it and waiting will fall on him, however he has said that because he feels L & H walls are stronger than those on my house then its not his fault if there is a problem !!!!!

Also if the swimming pool lining walls are to thin ...likewise. Luckily our pool is a European one so it will be strong ...but will it be strong enough

Watch this space

Edited August 22, 2007 by ThaiPauly

[Bill97]

Contacting CMU Civil Engineering Department may be fruitful. The Canadian lady could have Sandra Saowaporn who you might contact through CMIS where she has worked recently. Her husband is still at CMU and is a CE. Years ago I spoke with the head of the CE Department and he ended up designing steel roof framing for me, checking the strengths on his computer. They can be very helpful but may be reluctant to get into any conflicts.

[higgy88]

Yes, Sandra was her name, from Hamilton, Ontario. That was sure a long time ago.

TP, from the sound of your post, without knowing anything else about you or your situation, I'll give you 10 to 1 odds that the gov't engineer is going to say that it is not dangerous and the forman is already making his plans on not being responsible for any damages to your home. Looks like it may be time for plan B.

[ThaiPauly]

Big meeting in 20 minutes with all involved.

Will keep you posted

[ThaiPauly]

WE WON

The Engineer from the Government has said its too dangerous.

They will have to dig the holes manually, this will take him much longer...but thats not our problem, at least our house will not be falling down anytime soon.

The contractor was none too pleased as he has had to pay his staff for the last 2 weeks...but he accepts the Engineer's findings and will dismantle the piledriver.

Just goes to show if you make enough fuss things can work out for you in LOS:rolleyes:

TP

[j0j0]

Brilliant TP, you and Mrs TP must be v relieved

[Crossy]

This is excellent news, just make sure they don't sneak it back in when you're not looking

Actually, potential damage is not something I'd considered. We're having a 100m wall built to retain our fill from dropping into the khlong. The contractor is recommending using driven H-piles and concrete planks as the construction method, we will be quite near the neighbours house (although there is 2m of water between).

I'll check with the man as to whether there's the potential for problems, I don't want to end up paying for someones house

[ThaiPauly]

Brilliant TP, you and Mrs TP must be v relieved

Thanks JoJo...we are...its been a millstone round our necks for the last 2 weeks and now its over Thank God.

Don't think they will sneak back Crossy, the Govt Official said that he has seen the potential for damage and if the contractor went ahead he would personally be responsible.

Its cheaper for him to have the holes dug manually than to risk a 1m baht lawsuit, when the Government are our witnesses.

We'll toss the diggers over a few sandwiches to make it easier on them

[lannarebirth]

Brilliant TP, you and Mrs TP must be v relieved

Thanks JoJo...we are...its been a millstone round our necks for the last 2 weeks and now its over Thank God.

Don't think they will sneak back Crossy, the Govt Official said that he has seen the potential for damage and if the contractor went ahead he would personally be responsible.

Its cheaper for him to have the holes dug manually than to risk a 1m baht lawsuit, when the Government are our witnesses.

We'll toss the diggers over a few sandwiches to make it easier on them

Wonderful outcome TP. Congratulations on using the system here. While quite a trial, I'm sure, I'll bet you learned a lot and will be that much more prepared for whatever battles the future may hold.