Most likely only those of you who already are "off the beaten track"  with regards to what transpires

and is advocated, and basically forced on the public by way of rigid protocols within the mainstreet medical establisment system ................ will care to read some of my occasional posts here highlighting my reasons for not "trusting the science" .    Meaning, being forced to accept as honest and truthful information regarding the "health care"  we are offered (take it or leave it) by the servers of these set protocols, namely DOCTORS and Hospitals , who in ten minute "consultations" do anything but "consult" with the patient.   Dictate is the word I would choose.

I expect the usual trolls to laugh and thumbs down ... and maybe one or two present the usual paid for rebuttals from Google searches .  The "choir" can just as easily pull those up , thank you, and on the General Medicine pages of AN  the mainstreet believers can post without hindrance from us OTBT  members.    So hopefully the trolls and ad hominem snipers will just ignore this topic if not desiring or willing to just see another side of the subject .

 

Today's tidbit :

 

 

Don’t take my word for it. Take the word of the people who actually ran the journals. In 2015 —the same year the Paxil story broke— former Lancet Editor-in-Chief Richard Horton finally snapped, and blurted out the truth like he was confessing to siphoning gas from his neighbor’s lawn mower:

“The case against science is straightforward: much of the scientific literature, perhaps half, may simply be untrue.”

Perhaps half. Half! That’s not a statistical signal or a confidence interval. It’s a crime scene report.

Even the BMJ’s own former head editor, Fiona Godlee, admitted the field is “corrupted.” And not in the cute, old-fashioned way where the guy at the lab sneaks home a spare beaker. She meant intellectually corrupted— results engineered, journals captive, entire fields shaped by whoever has the fattest budget for “research support.”

Third: former New England Journal of Medicine Editor Marcia Angell (who spent twenty years guarding the temple) finally conceded the high priests were selling edible miracles in bulk:

“It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published… I take no pleasure in this conclusion.”

It’s not possible to believe the research! That’s from the editor of the New England Journal of Medicine, not some random TikTok alien theorist.

1 minute ago, rumak said:

Most likely only those of you who already are "off the beaten track"  with regards to what transpires

and is advocated, and basically forced on the public by way of rigid protocols within the mainstreet medical establisment system ................ will care to read some of my occasional posts here highlighting my reasons for not "trusting the science" .    Meaning, being forced to accept as honest and truthful information regarding the "health care"  we are offered (take it or leave it) by the servers of these set protocols, namely DOCTORS and Hospitals , who in ten minute "consultations" do anything but "consult" with the patient.   Dictate is the word I would choose.

I expect the usual trolls to laugh and thumbs down ... and maybe one or two present the usual paid for rebuttals from Google searches .  The "choir" can just as easily pull those up , thank you, and on the General Medicine pages of AN  the mainstreet believers can post without hindrance from us OTBT  members.    So hopefully the trolls and ad hominem snipers will just ignore this topic if not desiring or willing to just see another side of the subject .

 

 

It could have been worse, we could had been stoned for our sins, our honest opinions, banned by the pope, burned, tortured and raped all in the name of the Lord. 

 

Afterall we are a bit better off today if you born in the right side of the world, but still we have to contribute to the society one way or the other. And trust me, what we have today, will turn sooner or later, and back to the dark middle age we will go. 

 

We know it is in there, just waiting for them to outnumber us once more. So be sure you are on the right side of the history, and not the wrong. Right now, it is hard to know who is worse, but I have my feeling one is more dominant than the other if we let them. 

 

Once was water and fire proven science 😉

 

afterall we are just passengers, nothing else if we do not make the right choices. 

The story, which originally broke in 2015, is as old as “peer review” itself: a drug company (GlaxoSmithKline) wanted glowing results, so a helpful army of ghostwriters tweaked their study’s original results, massaged the incriminating data, and buried the bodies. Literally. The study’s authors either downplayed or outright concealed suicide attempts among teens taking Paxil.

The resulting paper —if you can call it that— created an entire generation of “unexpected adverse events,” otherwise known as dead kids.

And yet it had passed peer review. It was published in the BMJ. It had 21 co-authors— none of whom reviewed the raw data. It influenced medical guidelines. It made enormous sums of money. Then it exploded, leaving behind a familiar chalk outline: the corpse of scientific credibility.

“Prescriptions of antidepressants to young people surged in the wake of the study,” one New York Times article said, blandly.

In 2012, the DOJ got GSK to pay a $3 billion dollar fine —the biggest in medical history at the time— for falsely marketing Paxil to kids. Get this: to this day, in spite of the criminal fine and all the poor press, the BMJ has refused to retract the paper. (Just this year, a ‘notice of concern’ box was added to the top of the online version of the study.)

15 minutes ago, Hummin said:

It could have been worse, we could had been stoned for our sins, our honest opinions, banned by the pope, burned, tortured and raped all in the name of the Lord. 

 

Well,  i guess you could just post that comment on every topic that you feel it applies to .

 

Having a positive outlook is very nice .

 

"  We know it is in there, just waiting for them to outnumber us once more. So be sure you are on the right side of the history, and not the wrong. Right now, it is hard to know who is worse, but I have my feeling one is more dominant than the other if we let them. "

 

Maybe you can open your own topic ...... where you can explore and discuss who them, us, who is worse, who is better,  and what the "right side of history"  entails .    

 

Seems like could go on for many pages .   

2 minutes ago, rumak said:

The story, which originally broke in 2015, is as old as “peer review” itself: a drug company (GlaxoSmithKline) wanted glowing results, so a helpful army of ghostwriters tweaked their study’s original results, massaged the incriminating data, and buried the bodies. Literally. The study’s authors either downplayed or outright concealed suicide attempts among teens taking Paxil.

The resulting paper —if you can call it that— created an entire generation of “unexpected adverse events,” otherwise known as dead kids.

And yet it had passed peer review. It was published in the BMJ. It had 21 co-authors— none of whom reviewed the raw data. It influenced medical guidelines. It made enormous sums of money. Then it exploded, leaving behind a familiar chalk outline: the corpse of scientific credibility.

“Prescriptions of antidepressants to young people surged in the wake of the study,” one New York Times article said, blandly.

In 2012, the DOJ got GSK to pay a $3 billion dollar fine —the biggest in medical history at the time— for falsely marketing Paxil to kids. Get this: to this day, in spite of the criminal fine and all the poor press, the BMJ has refused to retract the paper. (Just this year, a ‘notice of concern’ box was added to the top of the online version of the study.)

 

Mental health is a huge marked they know to exploit, and it is from science to whatever supplement you believe can have a positive marker. 

 

Mental health science is one the bigger dark areas in history, and even today we know what can trigger and lead to mental health, but we do not have sustainable medication for most. 

 

If we wanted a mental stable population, diet and lifestyle in general should had been the solution for most that could had prevented much more than long term medication, addictive medication for life they never can get off. 

 

It is a psychotic world and life, and most can not escape reality. Easy for big pharma take advantage of vulnerable individuals and also greedy scientists as well decision makers as DR´s 

 

Placebo is a strong marker when it comes to mental health. 

 

Just some thoughts 

2 minutes ago, rumak said:

 

Well,  i guess you could just post that comment on every topic that you feel it applies to .

 

Having a positive outlook is very nice .    

 

You do not win by giving up, you have to look at the positives, before you can deal with the negatives. You need some kind of motivation to continue fighting for your own good. If everying is wrong, where to find motivation? 

 

After all it comes down to each and one of us, how to reflect what is the the main purpose of how society treats me, and how can I benefit from this without being used and abused? 

 

The information war out there is crazy, and it have even been worse in times, but still we have responsibility for our self, and at the other end the society we belong to. 

 

Wrongdoing needs the right people to handle, and people we trust is in major elected by the people, but corporations do have enormously power, so of course they want a hand on the wheels as well. 

 

And if you look at it from one end to the other, and in this case free markeds to completely controlled markeds in the name of Capitalism or Socialism, but is as wrong as it is named with and ISM to the end where independency is challenged. 

4 minutes ago, Hummin said:

It is a psychotic world and life, and most can not escape reality. Easy for big pharma take advantage of vulnerable individuals and also greedy scientists as well decision makers as DR´s 

 

thanks,  more "on topic".... relating to the post about Paxil . 

 

Many more "examples"  to follow in the weeks to come.   Feel free to add you own cases where "healing the patient"   with dangerous drugs or protocols  has been falsely prescribed or mandated .

I believe every field of endeavor has its share of shady characters quite willing to ignore the customer's (patient's?) needs and serve their own agendas.  Medicine no more so than auto mechanics or the lawyer's office.

That said, it behooves each of us to do due diligence before dealing with said characters. I think most of us are too willing to just place the problem in the hands of the 'Pro' with a child-like belief that 'Mommy can fix it.'  Trust... but verify.

 

1 hour ago, rumak said:

who in ten minute "consultations" do anything but "consult" with the patient.   Dictate is the word I would choose.

 

Because consultation is expensive and not a feasible business model.

Doctors are the highest paid professionals and actual real consultations would require hours of time with patients. Also, the real purpose of a consultation would be to help you tweak your diet in order to tweak the lab results. Also, tweaking your diet is in direct conflict with selling pharmaceuticals. 

 

There is a company in the US that has adopted a new model - less meds (or no meds if possible), consultations, and helping you tweak your diet to get the desired lab results. 

 

But it's probably very expensive ... BUT ... you may not need to buy meds for years and years. 

 

They probably do online consultations: 

https://www.revero.com/

 

 

 

 

 

Also, in Thailand there is a clinic called "Diet Doctor".

So he appears to focus more on root causes of illness (ie diet) than just prescribing meds. If I have a health issue in the future, I may consider going to see this guy.

 

He has a Youtube channel, but it's in Thai. Me no speak.

 

 

52 minutes ago, rumak said:

Feel free to add you own cases where "healing the patient"   with dangerous drugs or protocols  has been falsely prescribed or mandated .

 

Long-term use of statins has been shown to cause serious problems. This is already well-established. I've also seen warnings about Metformin. I would be cautious with any drug and research it first. 

 

There are doctors online explaining why they don't prescribe statins.

But the doctors who do this are very knowledgeable about using tricks to tweak the body in safer ways.

Either you accept what your doctor prescribes, or you need to seek a doctor who knows what they're doing to avoid harmful drugs. Or you need to research it yourself, which is hard work.

 

 

35 minutes ago, FolkGuitar said:

I believe every field of endeavor has its share of shady characters quite willing to ignore the customer's (patient's?) needs and serve their own agendas.  Medicine no more so than auto mechanics or the lawyer's office.

That said, it behooves each of us to do due diligence before dealing with said characters. I think most of us are too willing to just place the problem in the hands of the 'Pro' with a child-like belief that 'Mommy can fix it.'  Trust... but verify.

 

I agree with you about "shady characters" everywhere .  This is life,  and I and most of us accept that "let the buyer beware" .... as well as simple things like don't walk on dark streets in a bad area at night.

I start this topic because on my list of priorities..... health is number one (along with freedom ).    Both are heavily controlled by outside forces , so much so that the idea of a "level playing field"   for the average Joe is just a laugh.

Medicine.   Medical CARE !   I go back 60 odd years to remember when a person looked at me with empathy,  with care,  to listen to what ails me .  My grade school classes in a fairly large town never had all these medical problems.  

Now, the whole world is on drugs .   And the whole world, the more drugs,  the more unhealthy they are .   OK,  easy to say...... it's the lazy lifestyle,  or it's the food (both true) ,

and it can be discussed here .  Unfortunately, it often leads to arguments between members.

ON TOPIC :  what specific experiences have members here had where the "Pro"  did not provide a healthy solution,  and was unwilling to listen to any feedback from the "internet patient" .........     (and ,share some  alternative solutions that were found to work ? )

I did have some positive experiences with allopathic drs.(bone related).   FEW.   But, will talk about them in another comment.
 

46 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

 

Because consultation is expensive and not a feasible business model.

Doctors are the highest paid professionals and actual real consultations would require hours of time with patients. Also, the real purpose of a consultation would be to help you tweak your diet in order to tweak the lab results. Also, tweaking your diet is in direct conflict with selling pharmaceuticals. 

 

There is a company in the US that has adopted a new model - less meds (or no meds if possible), consultations, and helping you tweak your diet to get the desired lab results. 

 

But it's probably very expensive ... BUT ... you may not need to buy meds for years and years. 

 

They probably do online consultations: 

https://www.revero.com/

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes.... something along that "model"  would be much better .  I think more "business models"  like the one you show will crop up .    The problem is..... it does not solve the problem of quality and all encompassing ( lifestyle, diet, chemistry, etc ) for anyone but those with lots of MONEY .

 

Dealing with reality,  the common Joe  (which means not millionaires or up) will still only have the Mainstreet doctors, hospitals, and protocols to go to .

 

BUT......there are some sources and changes that I have made which have actually improved my health from where it was at age 70 ( a few years ago) .   and yes..this is all ANECDOTAL !    THIS TOPIC I would like to be  anecdotal !    

 

then,  when a few people say... HEY, it worked for me too ....... we can say it's definitely been peer reviewed .  😊

49 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

Long-term use of statins has been shown to cause serious problems. This is already well-established. I've also seen warnings about Metformin. I would be cautious with any drug and research it first. 

 

For the record:   Statins,  blood pressure meds,  "high cholesterol " guidelines and treatment for such,   wide use of PPI's , ........ are all high on my list of contention.

28 minutes ago, rumak said:

Medicine.   Medical CARE !   I go back 60 odd years to remember when a person looked at me with empathy,  with care,  to listen to what ails me .  

When I was a pre-teen, our doctor (not someone assigned as next in line for a patient), would come to our house. Actually, make House Calls when a family member gets sick. Same fellow year after year.  Usually arrived within 30 minutes, depending on the traffic and weather.

 

Some years before I moved to Asia, I accompanied my friend to his HMO clinic for pain he was experiencing while swallowing. After sitting in the waiting for for an hour and a half, my friend was taken (quite literally) for several tests (various, including X-rays? for a problem with swallowing?) expensive but covered by insurance), before he even saw a doctor, who he never saw before, quickly looked at his throat with a common flashlight, decided the problem was Strep, and prescribed a course of anti-biotics, having never consulted the test results (they weren't in yet) before making his 'determination and course of treatment. As it happened, that was all that was needed to cure my friend. But somebody got rich off the un-needed tests.

39 minutes ago, FolkGuitar said:

When I was a pre-teen, our doctor (not someone assigned as next in line for a patient), would come to our house. Actually, make House Calls when a family member gets sick. Same fellow year after year.  Usually arrived within 30 minutes, depending on the traffic and weather.

 

Some years before I moved to Asia, I accompanied my friend to his HMO clinic for pain he was experiencing while swallowing. After sitting in the waiting for for an hour and a half, my friend was taken (quite literally) for several tests (various, including X-rays? for a problem with swallowing?) expensive but covered by insurance), before he even saw a doctor, who he never saw before, quickly looked at his throat with a common flashlight, decided the problem was Strep, and prescribed a course of anti-biotics, having never consulted the test results (they weren't in yet) before making his 'determination and course of treatment. As it happened, that was all that was needed to cure my friend. But somebody got rich off the un-needed tests.

 

They're all getting rich ....................... off of all the people who think they have no choice. 

 

for most its probably true .    the "system"  has brainwashed everyone .  "don't be stupid, go to a doctor ! "

 

my POV ...... don't be stupid.  Spend hours trying to understand what the body needs and how it works .     (instead of posting all day on instagram) 

3 hours ago, rumak said:

The problem is..... it does not solve the problem of quality and all encompassing ( lifestyle, diet, chemistry, etc ) for anyone but those with lots of MONEY .

 

Well, the one I linked in the US is probably quite expensive.

But first and foremost, you need to educate yourself. 

There's a lot of resources online.

If you educate yourself, doctors are only mostly needed for helping you tweak your lab resorts. 

 

I have come to the conclusion that Ketogenic diets reverse most health problems.

But it works better for some than others.

You would still need to check your lab results / bloodwork. 

(But don't take my word for it. You need to do your own research.)

 

Since I am an advocate of ketogenic diet, I would seek out doctors who are familiar with this diet and actually use it in their practice. So they may be better able to interpret your bloodwork and help you make necessary tweaks to your diet. 

 

I did a quick search on Google and there are some doctors using Keto in their practice:

 

 

 

 

7 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

I have come to the conclusion that Ketogenic diets reverse most health problems.  But it works better for some than others.  You would still need to check your lab results / bloodwork.   (But don't take my word for it. You need to do your own research.)

 

👍 👍

 low-carb, high-fat, moderate-protein diet that puts the body into a metabolic state called ketosis

48 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

Since I am an advocate of ketogenic diet, I would seek out doctors who are familiar with this diet and actually use it in their practice. So they may be better able to interpret your bloodwork and help you make necessary tweaks to your diet

 

That is "basically"  the diet i have adopted as well .   ( low carb being the most significant change in my experience . )   Being fairly fit, but slim,  my age (now 70+)  necesitates eating quite a bit of protein... otherwise the muscle loss shows with sagging biceps, etc ) .  

Still eat a varied diet of meats, fish, vegetables .   NOT the cheapest selections that i might have favored in times gone by,

Anyway..... i read, compare, even have seen more than a few youtube videos .... and mix it all up in my brain to determine a course of action.  And suggest that is what each individual should do to "educate" themself.   The last part of the mix ...... is trial and error and more trial .  Initially not an easy task,  trying to understand what is causing what.

I have little faith in most "naturapathic" doctors , sad to say . (there are one or two in CM area)

Would be great (like i point out at various times) if there was somewhere close and reasonable with the care and facilities I could consult with .   Hopefully, some day that might come to areas in US and Thailand and elsewhere.

I can say , again, that my process over two years has really begun to show a lot of improvement in my health.   I will go into some issues on this thread......... and my trials and errors........... as time goes by 

51 minutes ago, rumak said:

I have little faith in most "naturapathic" doctors , sad to say

 

This is not a knock on the naturapathic medicine !   I am all in with that .  Its just the usual

dilemma when searching for a specialist (in any field)  that knows a lot... and gives a damn about what they are doing and who they are doing it for.

Have to start a 'Good Health Club.

 

Learning to read ones body don't just happen overnight. Just like any new skill; it takes time to learn and adjust. But, it don't have to be done alone.

 

We are all different, and what might be the best way for some might not be even advisable for another. We all have our own journey. We all have our own medical history.

 

I will say however, I don't think all this testing is the way to go. Find out what yer body needs and give it. Find out what the body don't want and stop it.

 

Therapy soviet style 

 

https://www.facebook.com/reel/738743099166568?fs=e&fs=e

 

 

The OP has a point.   One of the key tenets of the scientific method is the ability to reproduce the results of an experiment or study.  Yet, 75 to 90% of medical studies can't be reproduced.

 

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/circresaha.114.303819

 

Over the recent years, there has been an increasing recognition of the weaknesses that pervade our current system of basic and preclinical research. This has been highlighted empirically in preclinical research by the inability to replicate the majority of findings presented in high-profile journals.1–3 The estimates for irreproducibility based on these empirical observations range from 75% to 90%. These estimates fit remarkably well with estimates of 85% for the proportion of biomedical research that is wasted at-large.4–9 This irreproducibility is not unique to preclinical studies. It is seen across the spectrum of biomedical research. For example, similar concerns have been expressed for observational research where zero of 52 predictions from observational studies were confirmed in randomized clinical trials.10–12 At the heart of this irreproducibility lie some common, fundamental flaws in the currently adopted research practices. Although disappointing, this experience should probably not be surprising, and it is what one would expect also theoretically for many biomedical research fields based on how research efforts are conducted.1

 

Over 50% of psychology studies fail the reproducibility test.  

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/nature.2015.18248

 

 

 

Please remember this when you put this sign up in your yard. 

 

 

12 hours ago, save the frogs said:

 

Long-term use of statins has been shown to cause serious problems. This is already well-established.

 

False.

 

This has NOT been well established.

 

The opposite is true.

 

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/high-cholesterol/3-myths-about-cholesterol-lowering-statin-drugs

 

 

 

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6047411/

 

Please, Ma'm...

The facts and nothing but the facts....

 

 

 

8 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

The opposite is true.

 

There are "opposite" studies on everything .... just to confuse everyone. 

 

Post trying to censor alternative opinions removed.

 

@rumak This is off the beaten track and people are free to express their opinions. If you want to hear only your opinion, I suggest you request the topic is closed or debate your opinions.

Oxtcontin comes to mind. 

 

Is believed to...... gtfoh. 

On 12/6/2025 at 12:40 AM, save the frogs said:

 

There are "opposite" studies on everything .... just to confuse everyone. 

 

There is not opposite studies, there is different ways and premises  of collecting data and  analysis on the very same fields of study and different interpretations of the very same data that are being constantly peer rewind if there is interest. There is certain rules when it comes to science. 

 

A study is only valid to new data shows something else. 

Omeprazole (and other proton pump inhibitors, or PPIs) is often marketed as a near-harmless “acid blocker” — but the truth is, long-term use can have systemic, multi-layered health effects that are rarely disclosed to patients. Doctors often hand it out like candy for reflux, gastritis, or “preventive” ulcer protection, but the downstream effects reveal just how essential stomach acid actually is for whole-body health.

Let’s unpack why omeprazole can be dangerous:

---

https://fonts.gstatic.com/s/e/notoemoji/16.0/2699_fe0f/72.png 1. It shuts down the first stage of digestion

Stomach acid isn’t just about “burning” your esophagus — it:

• Kills pathogens in food
• Triggers the release of digestive enzymes from the pancreas
• Helps absorb minerals (magnesium, calcium, zinc, iron) and B vitamins

By suppressing acid, omeprazole effectively paralyzes digestion at its source, leading to malabsorption syndromes over time. This is one reason many long-term users develop muscle cramps, anemia, and neurological issues.

---

https://fonts.gstatic.com/s/e/notoemoji/16.0/1f9e0/72.png 2. Nutrient deficiency–related neurological damage

Long-term PPI users often become deficient in vitamin B12 and magnesium — both of which are critical for nerve function and neurotransmitter balance.

Consequences include:

• Peripheral neuropathy (nerve pain & numbness)
• Depression and cognitive decline
• In severe cases, seizures or fatal cardiac arrhythmias (from magnesium depletion)

Yet, this rarely makes it into the patient information leaflets — because these effects happen after years, which lets manufacturers sidestep causal responsibility.

---

https://fonts.gstatic.com/s/e/notoemoji/16.0/1f9b4/72.png 3. Bone weakening and fractures

Reduced calcium absorption leads to osteopenia and osteoporosis. In 2010, the FDA even admitted that PPIs raise fracture risks in long-term users. Your skeleton literally starts dissolving while you stop feeling heartburn — a hell of a price for gastric “comfort.”

---

https://fonts.gstatic.com/s/e/notoemoji/16.0/1f9a0/72.png 4. Increased risk of infections (bacterial and fungal)

By removing the acid barrier, PPIs turn your stomach into a warm petri dish:

• C. difficile infections skyrocket
• Pneumonia risk increases (via micro-aspiration of pathogens from the gut)
• Candida overgrowth (especially oral and esophageal)

The gut flora changes dramatically under chronic acid suppression — fostering dysbiosis that can ripple outward into systemic inflammation and autoimmune problems.