Thailand News Clippings

[gharknes]

OK, I posted this on the tail end of a huge thread in the news clippings area of the forum, it's just a few thoughts I had about improving the experience in that area.

why are old threads still alive, is every post directly related to the original topic, my point here is every time i open "Thai news clippings" it is the same few news items that remain at the top and have done for a very long time, having threads of 300 or more off topic posts on these news items is a waste of time, "on topic" posts related to the news item is fine but to create these monster threads in this section of the forum is impractical, is a visitor here going to read through hundreds of off topic posts just to make an on topic comment about a news item

May I suggest to the moderstors and forum members that if you wish to discuss something unrelated to these news items that you start a new thread in the General Topics section, this would greatly help reduce the clutter in the news section. e.g. If you want to discuss "Thaksin" start a thread in the "general discussion" section titled as such.

I understand it is difficult to moderate this but to be fair "off topic posts" in other areas of the forum are often not tolerated.

I like to read news related topics and visit that area on every visit to the forum but it is difficult to find the lastest news because of all these old out of date off topic monster threads that seem to dominate there for months.

My simple request is - please can everyone keep posts "on topic" and directly related to the posted news item, this would make that area of the forum "News" a much more pleasant and practical experience.

[Jai Dee]

Thanks for the feedback.

We are currently discussing this issue as we understand that it can be difficult to read the latest news developments in the longer-running threads.

It would be interesting to get some feedback on this issue from other members too.

Any other suggestions folks?

[cdnvic]

I think news items should close after a set period of time, a month maybe.

Everytime I look at the index page it's always "Bringing Thaksin to account" "Former Thai PM Thaksin: "I'm Calling It Quits" "Thaksin Accused By Assets Examination Committee On Deals" or one of the other old topics discussing the same old things at the top of the list.

Unless you've been in on it from the beginning, it's not worth joining the discussion because nobody wants to jump in on the 53rd page of a topic and these topics just leave little room for new items which die quickly when they leave the front page. If new items are added to these topics it just gets buried and I bet a lot of people miss them, which they wouldn't if they were posted as their own items.

Maybe discussions on old topics could be shuffled to their own subforum when they cease to be news and become extended debates.

Edited August 28, 2007 by cdnvic

[sriracha john]

Looking at only the longevity aspect of some of the threads, I would point out that many issues are only resolved after a fairly long time (many never are).

In that regard, I would prefer that the original threads be continued until their resolution is completed (or as near to it as possible). It's frustrating when topics are closed prematurely or that multiple new threads are started when an original one exists. The one topic, one thread (OTOT, not to be confused with OTOP) concept I feel provides the best method as it includes the history behind an issue and identical comments are not scattered about the forum.

Other topics that are open-ended, eg. Thaksin Considering Purchasing Manchester City, that are replaced with threads reflecting development, eg. Thaksin Completes Purchase of Manchester City, are appropriately closed with reference to the new thread.

As for time-specific threads, eg. Aug 20 May Be Declared Special Public Holiday, I think Jai Dee and crew do an excellent job of closing them appropriately.

I'll give the off-topic aspect some more thought and get back.

[Wolfie]

Nice concept but when the thread was originally opened 3 years ago and the last post is on page 4,598,295 - do you think its relevant?

[LaoPo]

I think news items should close after a set period of time, a month maybe.

Everytime I look at the index page it's always "Bringing Thaksin to account" "Former Thai PM Thaksin: "I'm Calling It Quits" "Thaksin Accused By Assets Examination Committee On Deals" or one of the other old topics discussing the same old things at the top of the list.

Unless you've been in on it from the beginning, it's not worth joining the discussion because nobody wants to jump in on the 53rd page of a topic and these topics just leave little room for new items which die quickly when they leave the front page. If new items are added to these topics it just gets buried and I bet a lot of people miss them, which they wouldn't if they were posted as their own items.

Maybe discussions on old topics could be shuffled to their own subforum when they cease to be news and become extended debates.

I agree with the OP as well as you, cdnvic.

The 'Thaksin' threads are 'dated' and repeating themselves all the time, with more bad, good or controversial news. On the first 3 pages of 'Thailand news Clippings' I count 7 or 8 'Thaksin/TRT related news topics...

Suggestions:

1. Create a 'Thaksin/TRT' sub-Forum, -completely apart- from the rest of the news. If people are (still) interested in T's/TRT news, they can go there by means of an automatic subscription.

2. Create a news-Forum about the present -new- POLITICAL situation in Thailand. Also with an automatic subscription.

3. Create a news-forum about the present ECONOMICAL situation in Thailand, also with an automatic subscription.

4. Limit the responses to a certain News/Political/Economical thread within a time-frame; to be set by the Administration/Mods; after that it could be re-directed to one of the afore mentioned Sub-Forums.

LaoPo

Edited August 28, 2007 by LaoPo

[Mid]

Thailand New Clipings, needs improvement

thanxs for this opportunity gharknes ,

the ability for more senior members to start threads in news maybe something to consider ? rules and regs to apply .

also , some of the longer running threads DO HAVE historical value which will increase with time , given that they survive on that rather fragile storage medium the interweb .

as to the question of sub-forums etc

a) General News : Hard facts backed by cites

b ) Political News / Discussion

c) Economic News / Discussion

e) Oddities , man's gotta have a laugh occasionally

thats my song satang

mid

[Wolfie]

the ability for more senior members to start threads in news maybe something to consider ? rules and regs to apply .

I'm not sure if the forum software would allow that

[cdnvic]

the ability for more senior members to start threads in news maybe something to consider ? rules and regs to apply .

I'm not sure if the forum software would allow that

Easily done. Like how Reimer can post in the downloads section. You can assign posting rights in any subforum regardless of usergroup.

[canuckamuck]

I think Cndvic is right about term limits for news clipping posts. It could be easily handled by having a current news section and an ongoing news section.

When a thread becomes a month old it is dropped into the ongoing section leaving room for fresher topics and new contributors.

[ColPyat]

Thanks for the feedback.

We are currently discussing this issue as we understand that it can be difficult to read the latest news developments in the longer-running threads.

It would be interesting to get some feedback on this issue from other members too.

Any other suggestions folks?

Personally, i do like it as it is.

Some topics do attract political discussion/debate that will by nature go on for a long time, and will stray "off topic" as there are complex matters. It's not that all topics turn into endless threads.

Just "discussing" news will limit the discussion to far IMHO, and moving such discussions into the general folder will scatter them.

My only suggestion would be, if necessary, as a compromise, to create a new subfolder in the news folder, into which, when a news thread develops into a long drawn out debate discussion, this thread can be moved. Maybe call it then "political discussion" folder, or something similar. And, please, in such a case, let it only be moderated by moderators who have a solid knowledge base in Thai politics and social issues.

Some people don't like long discussions, and following specific topics over a long time, and others do. I don't think that it would be fair to the debaters to forcibly limit discussions by time, and to be too strict in enforcing the "off topic" rule there. It is nice to see discussions develop naturally over time.

[hammered]

Make the news and politics sections more accesible for the occaisional reader. Right now it is quite daunting for these people to plough their way through 40 pages of us usual faces discussing the merits or otherwise of the Thaksin with the same arguements taking over every thread. I am as guilty as others.

Be more brutal on cutting off topic stuff by deletion or movement to a new thread, and also delete any personal stuff immediately. I personally have no prolem with having any of comments deleted or moved if they are deemed innapropriate by being off topic, insulting or putting TV at risk legally.

You may need more moderators to do this.

[gharknes]

my point is really the off topic drift that these threads take, as news items they become unfunctional, thats why i suggest if dicussing thaksin is something people want to do then go and create a thread about thaksin but not in the news area of the forum, the news threads are very specific about the subject, the follow up content from members is not, all the thaksin threads could easily be in one thread for general discussion leaving the news item for updates and addition info, it is also important that any post on these news topics is explicitly on topic, some of the posts on these news threads are important, provided they are on topic there is no problem. I think this area of the forum is being cluttered to the extent it is now unfunctional, I was going to say abused but a bit extreme i think.

[Jai Dee]

Some good constructive comments and opinions so far.

Please keep them coming.

[Plus]

If a topic lasts for several months and grows to 40+ pages, doesn't it mean that it is of some considerable interest to the members? Why should it be shut down completely? It is a fact of life that political news attract lots of responses, it's unnatural for a discussion board to limit discussions to three pages or three days as a matter of principle.

Qharknes and others have legitimate points, too. Genuine news updates on these long running topics get buried where no one can see them.

I think we should determine what the problems are, exactly.

If the problem is in finding the news, maybe the solution should be strictly "news" subforum with no comments. Many threads naturally take this course, btw, with only Jai Dee adding news clippings and no comments at all.

If the problem is that newcomers feel intimidated, maybe they should have a "playground" subforum with anyone above 50 posts not allowed.

If the problem is that someone gets sick of seeing yet another Thaksin thread, maybe there should be "political news" subforum, separated from "German tourist killed by a sausage" general stuff. Thaksin, TRT, junta - they are not going to disappear anytime soon, unfortunately.

If the problem is that these long threads often discuss exactly the same issues then the solution could be cutting off topic branches. For regular posters there's always tomorrow, there will always be another chance.

If the problem is that trolls can easily take over the topics and provoke hot debates on issues irrelevant to the thread, then it's a different matter and we should discuss "dealing with trolls" issue, not forum organisation.

>>>

Oh, the suggestion - I think just a separate "Thai politics" subforum would satisfy everyone. No need to change posting rules or anything else.

Edited August 28, 2007 by Plus

[younghusband]

Generally speaking I think the current system works reasonably well.I don't have any issue with threads that run off topic if the content is interesting or even mildly quirky.Equally though I think political discussion has been well handled by moderators allowing interesting even slightly acrimonious debate to run on for a while even if off topic, perhaps a slightly more ruthless guillotine process might make sense at times.

[Tony Clifton]

My opinion is that creating more threads and forums is like moving one pile to a different spot, same pile.

How can a thread like "Thaksin Calling it quits" be closed, especially with the coming elections?

I think it's fine the way it is.

[Siripon]

Creating a political subforum initially sounds attractive as it's always us regulars slugging it out.This could lead to a mushrooming of discussion, ie when the colonel quotes some academic or book and someone then replies to that. Under the present system that sort of discussion would get nipped in the bud as going off topic after a few posts, but I see 2 hurdles.

The inevitable references to a higher authority which would halt the thread, and secondly what to do with all incoming and current political news which obviously will be a considerable part of the news in the forseeable future.

If it's separated from other news stories newbies may give it a miss, thinking it's dull or irrelevant to their lives.

So how about having both?

The political forum could contain long running topics, ie 'Can Thaksin buy his way back to power?' whilst the news forum could have the latest news, which if unwieldly in length after a while, could be resumed in the political section.

Come on Thaivisa, keep expanding those forums and the TV empire!

As an afterthought how about producing a limited edition of election 20007 T- shirts as Christmas or New Year gifts to all the regulars? That way if I spot someone wearing one I can guess the poster, ie 'The Colonel, I presume?'

[marshbags]

I don,t know if my two penneth is any use but..................

Why not leave the Thai News Clippings as it is but split it into sub sections within this

e.g

Corruption, Thaksin, Drugs, Elections, Constitution ect ect. these probably cover most of the ongoing stuff.

Then put all existing threads into the various sections for access / reference.

I don,t know if it would then be possible to access them via the search facility should a situation similar to the above be used ????

Start a new sub section with a heading of something simple like

" Hot News, Latest News, Current News".

Keep the material for ex amount of time ??? then put it into the T.N.Clippings sub sections for ongoing / further debate.

I posted the following relating to the present problem we have with continuity on our part and admins problem with trying to update news that is similar to older news of a similar content.

Quote :-

Thread Topic " Proposed Constitution "

Ref. 1491289 post no. 144 dated 2007-08-22 08:25:34

With due respect

Admin, may i put an idea for consideration if it is at all possible.

Regarding closing one thread and creating a follow on.

Would it be helpful to do a similar reference as to providing a link at the start of the follow on to allow access to the one it is superseding along with a similar link up.

This in turn would be benificial to refer back to and access a post from the initial thread or indeed pick up on all that has already been posted.

Unquote.........................................................................

For me everything is managable anyway so long as we do not loose continuity by closing one thread to open one of a similar nature, but to take on board the need for up to date news and it,s a reasonable one

Hence my suggestion of a new sub section to compliment the existing T.N.Clippings and highlight " todays news in whatever headline is suitable. "

All Mods admin and members deserve kudos for making T.Visa what it has developed into.

Most of us have had P.M,s and the odd holiday for indescretions, this is an effective way, if used fairly, it also stops the members intent on causing continual chaos with a view to getting threads closed, or do not give a f### if they are without even thinking about the consequences.

This for me without starting an in thread " off topic " discussion is a factor in helping the multitude of debates along and flowing without distractions into the realms of several debates starting within one.

As a last thought is it possible to put most of the older stuff into an archives out of the way and reduce the lists.

IMHO as always

marshbags

Edited August 28, 2007 by marshbags

[ColPyat]

Creating a political subforum initially sounds attractive as it's always us regulars slugging it out.This could lead to a mushrooming of discussion, ie when the colonel quotes some academic or book and someone then replies to that. Under the present system that sort of discussion would get nipped in the bud as going off topic after a few posts, but I see 2 hurdles.

The inevitable references to a higher authority which would halt the thread, and secondly what to do with all incoming and current political news which obviously will be a considerable part of the news in the forseeable future.

If it's separated from other news stories newbies may give it a miss, thinking it's dull or irrelevant to their lives.

So how about having both?

The political forum could contain long running topics, ie 'Can Thaksin buy his way back to power?' whilst the news forum could have the latest news, which if unwieldly in length after a while, could be resumed in the political section.

Come on Thaivisa, keep expanding those forums and the TV empire!

As an afterthought how about producing a limited edition of election 20007 T- shirts as Christmas or New Year gifts to all the regulars? That way if I spot someone wearing one I can guess the poster, ie 'The Colonel, I presume?'

Good post, i agree with most.

God, i must have a fever! How can i say that!

As to the identifying T-Shirt - next life. I can see myself not just running away from all my political opponents, now also from all aging husbands with young Thai wifes as well.

[Plus]

I think we should listen to people who compain once again. What is it exactly that they want?

For the most part of the first page it looked like they simply don't want long running political discussions. Creating a subforum might ease the congestions but threads aren't going to become shorter.

[cdnvic]

That's just it. Seperate the real news and current events from the long running debates. A news item from last year may still be interesting but its not news anymore. As it's difficult to join a discussion on page 50, the thread more and more belongs to those who have been arguing their points from the beginning. As other long running threads develop, the more the whole news forum starts to become the domain of a few. Giving these threads their own subforum would keep both sides happy.

A Thai political forum is what the old Bearpit was supposed to be before the Iraq war started and the whole place got sidetracked with non-Thai related flaming and arguments. If anything, the fact that these long running threads in the news forum have gone on so long without mayhem developing goes to show that the board is mature enough to have a political forum, thanks mostly to the restraint and good behaviour of the members involved in these long running discussions.

[Jai Dee]

If anything, the fact that these long running threads in the news forum have gone on so long without mayhem developing goes to show that the board is mature enough to have a political forum, thanks mostly to the restraint and good behaviour of the members involved in these long running discussions.

You'd be surprised to see what's in the trash can Vic...

Then again... maybe you wouldn't.

I think that most of the posters in this thread have made significant contributions and discussions in the news forum... and to the trash can.

[sriracha john]

An additional point to consider is that the biggest thread, by far, running in News Clipping Forum, is not political, but concerns economics:

The Thai Economy Is In Crisis

Posts: an astounding 1,596

Views: an amazing 46,409

Other big threads:

Sub-prime Meltdown Hits Thailand With Force

Foreign Business Act Stopped

[cdnvic]

An additional point to consider is that the biggest thread, by far, running in News Clipping Forum, is not political, but concerns economics:

The Thai Economy Is In Crisis

Posts: an astounding 1,596

Views: an amazing 46,409

Other big threads:

Sub-prime Meltdown Hits Thailand With Force

Foreign Business Act Stopped

Should they not be discussed in the business and economics forums then if they are no longer news?

[gharknes]

I'll try again

I have no objection to threads that accumulate 50 pages of discussion - that is fine, the comments here specifically relate to these threads taking place in the News area of the forum, this area has a dedicated purpose - it is not a general discussion area, it is my opinion that these valuable threads are being cluttered, if these posts are made in the general topics area then i have a choice whether i read them or not but if posted in the news area and i want to read news - then that choice is removed, nobody is saying don't post 50 pages - just don't do it in a national news feed on the forum, lets keep it for news and a few on topic opinions rather than the missdirected off topic dribble that people think is relevant in a specific news item.

What is wrong with dicussing Thaksin in "general topics" then we can all get on with reading the news and not having hundreds of "OFF TOPIC CLUTTER/CRAP"

not sure why some people don't understand this simple point I'm making,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,how big is this thread going to be ?

[gharknes]

I think we should listen to people who compain once again. What is it exactly that they want?

For the most part of the first page it looked like they simply don't want long running political discussions. Creating a subforum might ease the congestions but threads aren't going to become shorter.

hope my previous post explains as you have missed the point entirely.

[gharknes]

My opinion is that creating more threads and forums is like moving one pile to a different spot, same pile.

How can a thread like "Thaksin Calling it quits" be closed, especially with the coming elections?

I think it's fine the way it is.

because it's not really a thread, its a news announcement for all to read and keep up with what's going on

[Jai Dee]

But ThaiVisa is a discussion forum, and the news forum has been running like this since its inception.

Take a look at some of the earliest threads there for example.

Are you suggesting that the news forum should be free from all discussion and speculation, and only contain news bulletins?

[younghusband]

I'll try again

I have no objection to threads that accumulate 50 pages of discussion - that is fine, the comments here specifically relate to these threads taking place in the News area of the forum, this area has a dedicated purpose - it is not a general discussion area, it is my opinion that these valuable threads are being cluttered, if these posts are made in the general topics area then i have a choice whether i read them or not but if posted in the news area and i want to read news - then that choice is removed, nobody is saying don't post 50 pages - just don't do it in a national news feed on the forum, lets keep it for news and a few on topic opinions rather than the missdirected off topic dribble that people think is relevant in a specific news item.

What is wrong with dicussing Thaksin in "general topics" then we can all get on with reading the news and not having hundreds of "OFF TOPIC CLUTTER/CRAP"

not sure why some people don't understand this simple point I'm making,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,how big is this thread going to be ?

Try then reading the Bangkok Post for news and let the forum get on with its purpose, which is discussion and debate.I'm not even really convinced the forum needs a "news" component at all and that is not to undervalue the useful work done in supplying articles.News items when supplied should be a catalyst or reference point for discussion.The assumption can be made that those interested in political discussion keep themselves up to date on current events in Thailand.I don't see much point in supplying articles of the "Thailand and Sri Lanka to increase co-operation on religious matters" type, since these are unlikely to provoke much if any reaction.