Pi / Khun Etc

[stonybonytony]

I and another Farang were talking with a Thai woman I would say was a good friend to both of us. I noticed she called me Khun Tony, and the other chap Pi Stuart. What should I read into this - Stuart is older than both me and her, does this make him Pi, or does she think of him more as an older brother and me more distantly as 'Mr' Tony? She is younger than me, would it be appropriate for me to address her as 'Nong'?

[LookSaMoon]

I and another Farang were talking with a Thai woman I would say was a good friend to both of us. I noticed she called me Khun Tony, and the other chap Pi Stuart. What should I read into this - Stuart is older than both me and her, does this make him Pi, or does she think of him more as an older brother and me more distantly as 'Mr' Tony? I guess so .She is younger than me, would it be appropriate for me to address her as 'Nong'? It's appropriate to address her as Nong.

Those just only my opinion and may different from other.

Edited August 29, 2007 by LookSaMoon

[JohnnyThai]

I agree with Looksa. How much older is your friend?

[Johpa]

I and another Farang were talking with a Thai woman I would say was a good friend to both of us. I noticed she called me Khun Tony, and the other chap Pi Stuart. What should I read into this - Stuart is older than both me and her, does this make him Pi, or does she think of him more as an older brother and me more distantly as 'Mr' Tony? She is younger than me, would it be appropriate for me to address her as 'Nong'?

I find it is less common for adults to address each other as nong as compared to addressing an elder as phii. I have also heard nong used as a pronoun that notes a class distinction rather than an age distinction such as at a restaurant where a customer addresses a waitress who is clearly older than the customer as nong. So I would be a bit careful in addressing an adult as nong. Upon further reflection, I don't think I really use nong to address anyone within my generation.

When I was an undergraduate at college there was a female Thai graduate student who was almost a decade younger than myself. But when I addressed her as nong she sure got her panties twisted out of shape and our very casual friendship came to an abrupt halt.

My brother-in-law, who I always have addressed as phii, he is older than I and also married to my wife's older sister (this confers elder status even if the absolute age is younger) , is reluctant to address me as nong now that we are both well into our middle-aged years. He is uncomfortable with calling me nong and I am uncomfortable with his addressing me as khun. I am not sure how this will play out or how it is resolved but as the village is of mixed ethnicity, I am hoping for him to switch to Johpa as many of the elder ladies prefer.

[LookSaMoon]

I myself feel strange to call any foreigner as Phii or Nong.

Normally call " Khun " or just name like what farang call each other.

[sutnyod]

I myself feel strange to call any foreigner as Phii or Nong.

Normally call " Khun " or just name like what farang call each other.

I have a similar 'problem': most Thais call me Phi almost immediately (and I know they also do so in my absence), but I cannot bring myself to address them as Nong. So I retain the rigid 'Khun'. However, I have no problem addressing a Thai elder friend as 'Phi'. Go figure!

[CSS]

I myself feel strange to call any foreigner as Phii or Nong.

Normally call " Khun " or just name like what farang call each other.

I have a similar 'problem': most Thais call me Phi almost immediately (and I know they also do so in my absence), but I cannot bring myself to address them as Nong. So I retain the rigid 'Khun'. However, I have no problem addressing a Thai elder friend as 'Phi'. Go figure!

I echo that exactly...well not exactly as at 28 'most' Thais I'm in contact are older. But for those younger I am called Phi but I feel uncomfortable calling them Nong and use Khun even though it feels too formal.

Edited August 30, 2007 by CSS

[Captain Chaos]

I only use "Pii" with my mother in law and other elderly folks in the village (most of whom are relatives via the extended family anyway). I only use "Nong" with kids in the family - but the ones I know well are "Luk" anyway. Anyone who is an adult of a vaguely similar age or that I don't know well I just use "Khun ... "

There are subtle social hierachies at play here which farangs may not always pick up, hence my conservative approach. For the same reason, I rarely initiate "wais" - again only with elderly relatives as a rule...

[pete_r]

Glad to see I'm not the only one uncomfortable addressing younger people as "nong". It feels like a power game to me.

I have less problems with "pii", as it is sure to create positive feelings (unlike "nong"). Khun is also friendly enough, specially when used with the person's nickname.

I use "pii" for my brother-in-law, so my parents-in-law are "mae" and "po".

[TheChiefJustice]

Quite right. You really ought to refer to your mother in-law as แม่ or คุณแม่ and your father in-law as พ่อ or คุณพ่อ.

Edited August 30, 2007 by TheChiefJustice

[lungbing]

Ah, but as my mother-in-law is a year younger than me I make her laugh by calling her nong mae yai.

[LookSaMoon]

Ah, but as my mother-in-law is a year younger than me I make her laugh by calling her nong mae yai.

[Johpa]

Upon further retrospection, it is amazing how difficult it is to accept and recognize that the days of phii and nong are long gone and mostly all I hear myself being addressed as is lung. The flip side is that I have half a dozen nieces who are now young adults, who are all drop dead gorgeous (at least in my mind's eye) and who love to hang out and flirt and joke with khun lung.

[seonai]

I call my mother and father in law Ma and Pa

[seonai]

And anyone under about 25 'Nong' over 55 I would call 'Pee' - but I have the same probs as all of you with the middle bit

[sutnyod]

There are subtle social hierachies at play here which farangs may not always pick up, hence my conservative approach. For the same reason, I rarely initiate "wais" - again only with elderly relatives as a rule...

Reminds me about what the Thais do. Many know it is not polite to ask a foreign lady her age. So they ask the age of my kids, do a quick calculation and booom I turn from a 'nong' to a 'phi'. And the Thais apologize profusely. How could they have committed the crime of judging one younger!!!!

[Edward B]

Referring to someone as "Nong" on its own can be construed as impolite (they may think you consider them as a servant or something) - unless you add their name afterwards. I would never use Nong for a younger male, preferring their name alone - except for the children (<16 years) of my friends. For a younger female acquaintance I prefer the word "Nu" (หนู). This is much more common than "Nong" for referring to oneself speaking to someone older.

[mangkorn]

I believe that "Nu" is only a second-person pronoun when addressing a little child. For a girl in her teens or woman in her 20s, it is a first-person pronoun. It is common for young (and even not so young) women to refer to themselves that way, but I don't think that Thais use it in the second-person in such cases.

[meadish_sweetball]

I believe that "Nu" is only a second-person pronoun when addressing a little child. For a girl in her teens or woman in her 20s, it is a first-person pronoun. It is common for young (and even not so young) women to refer to themselves that way, but I don't think that Thais use it in the second-person in such cases.

They do - I have heard it used in that way by older women to younger ones, but it may cause offense (belittling).

[sbk]

I believe that "Nu" is only a second-person pronoun when addressing a little child. For a girl in her teens or woman in her 20s, it is a first-person pronoun. It is common for young (and even not so young) women to refer to themselves that way, but I don't think that Thais use it in the second-person in such cases.

They do - I have heard it used in that way by older women to younger ones, but it may cause offense (belittling).

Is this the same term as nuey or nooey (in the South)? It can be used as a personal pronoun for small children (ie referring to themselves as "nuey" instead of by their name. EX: it belongs to me--korng nuey), my mother-in-law uses it when referring to her adult children and sometimes, it is also used as a nickname for a girl. But I would never use it with another grown woman unless it was her nickname. Very condescending.

[TexasRanger]

It is perfectly acceptable for an older person to use Nu with a younger person, as long as they are familiar

[mangkorn]

It is perfectly acceptable for an older person to use Nu with a younger person, as long as they are familiar

Depends on what you mean by familiar: of course a mother can use it to refer to her grown daughter; but a casual acquaintance - especially coming from a farang - I doubt it.

[TexasRanger]

It is perfectly acceptable for an older person to use Nu with a younger person, as long as they are familiar

Depends on what you mean by familiar: of course a mother can use it to refer to her grown daughter; but a casual acquaintance - especially coming from a farang - I doubt it.

Familiar as in friends / family.

[CSS]

It is perfectly acceptable for an older person to use Nu with a younger person, as long as they are familiar

Depends on what you mean by familiar: of course a mother can use it to refer to her grown daughter; but a casual acquaintance - especially coming from a farang - I doubt it.

Familiar as in friends / family.

family yes, friends only if they are longstanding very close friends or still considered a dek ying (<13) otherwise I would find it offensive/condescending or at best presumptuous

[khaojao]

i've heard 30++ year old women use "nu" when referring to themselves while speaking to monks. do thai women use this term to address themselves (instead of "chan") while speaking to monks?

EDIT: typo

Edited September 3, 2007 by khaojao

[paddypower]

On 8/29/2007 at 8:57 PM, Johpa said:

I find it is less common for adults to address each other as nong as compared to addressing an elder as phii. I have also heard nong used as a pronoun that notes a class distinction rather than an age distinction such as at a restaurant where a customer addresses a waitress who is clearly older than the customer as nong. So I would be a bit careful in addressing an adult as nong. Upon further reflection, I don't think I really use nong to address anyone within my generation.

When I was an undergraduate at college there was a female Thai graduate student who was almost a decade younger than myself. But when I addressed her as nong she sure got her panties twisted out of shape and our very casual friendship came to an abrupt halt.

My brother-in-law, who I always have addressed as phii, he is older than I and also married to my wife's older sister (this confers elder status even if the absolute age is younger) , is reluctant to address me as nong now that we are both well into our middle-aged years. He is uncomfortable with calling me nong and I am uncomfortable with his addressing me as khun. I am not sure how this will play out or how it is resolved but as the village is of mixed ethnicity, I am hoping for him to switch to Johpa as many of the elder ladies prefer.

pity about the panties. always a nice place to visit. ????