Thai Citizenship

[dbrenn]

Well, irrespective of your views, younghusband, the Interior Ministry regulations have been amended as I have indicated. The amendment significantly reduces the amount of time a foreign male would otherwise need to wait before making an application for citizenship. As such, the amendment is one of substance in favor of the applicant.

I stand corrected but it surely doesn't reflect -one way or another -on the junta's agenda.

YH,

I tend to disagree based on a couple of factors. I know people have different views on the junta and that is their right (which I respect), but having maybe a bit of a bit of inside perspective of the personalities of this government verus the old one (very minor...but better than nothing) I tend to get the impression that the people in this government are more outward looking that under Thaksin. But that is a side issue to a large extent, except that it is no secret that citizenship applications came to a grinding halt under the last government, which to me says alot when you take into account their nationalist agenda.

Anyway, for me, this change is a huge positive, and nothing to be sneezed at in my opinion. Firstly, I view these things in context with the starting point that Thai nationality is on one hand bloody hard to get. As such, in the past year, we have seen the backlog of citizenship applications being taken care of. I've had one mate waiting to be naturalised since 2000, even though he's been here since he was 3 years old (as a PR since his teens) who just got his citizenship in march this year despite him being as stereotypically Thai as you can get. That could have only come via ministerial discretion which would have been discussed at cabinet level first.

Another thing is obviously this change in regulation. Again, that would have been at the behest of the minister, no doubt discussed at senior levels, which as the Chief Justice said, is a substantial change in the rules.

In terms of the legistlation change mentioned in the BKK post, I view this as a postive light, even though it got knocked down. Under the last government (I had a little to do with them - hence my bad feelings towards them), ministries and departments were basically brow beaten into submission, so that very little 'independent' advice was given to the minister or PM that didn't agree with the perceived views of government. It was a government and burecracy of 'yes' men and women.

The fact that the relevant ministry felt comfortable in being able to propose a relaxation in the law (and do it publically) speaks volumes for me. Yes it got knocked back, but there seems to be a valid discussion going on there which if you even attended a meeting of sychophant advisors under the last government, you'd be singing this junta's praises as well (at least on this matter).

But, that is only my humble opinion.

I think it is true what you say about the last government tightening up the requirements. From my experience, this 5 year PR rule is a recent thing.

The first time I attempted to apply for citizenship was pre-Thalksin in 1998, when I had just got my PR. At that time, as I recall, there was no 5 year PR rule, and my citizenship application would have been accepted had I not had a provincial address on my Tabien Bahn. Since I couldn't be bothered changing my address at that time, and was too busy with other things to travel upcountry to lodge and follow my application, I shelved the citizenship idea for a few years. Upon my more recent successful application in 2003, I did notice the 5 year PR requirement on the application checklist.

It could be that the new government has just reverted to the old set of rules, with the twist of 5 years including time spent on Non-Imm visas. Good news that they are making it easier though.

[dbrenn]

Well, irrespective of your views, younghusband, the Interior Ministry regulations have been amended as I have indicated. The amendment significantly reduces the amount of time a foreign male would otherwise need to wait before making an application for citizenship. As such, the amendment is one of substance in favor of the applicant.

I stand corrected but it surely doesn't reflect -one way or another -on the junta's agenda.

YH,

I tend to disagree based on a couple of factors. I know people have different views on the junta and that is their right (which I respect), but having maybe a bit of a bit of inside perspective of the personalities of this government verus the old one (very minor...but better than nothing) I tend to get the impression that the people in this government are more outward looking that under Thaksin. But that is a side issue to a large extent, except that it is no secret that citizenship applications came to a grinding halt under the last government, which to me says alot when you take into account their nationalist agenda.

Anyway, for me, this change is a huge positive, and nothing to be sneezed at in my opinion. Firstly, I view these things in context with the starting point that Thai nationality is on one hand bloody hard to get. As such, in the past year, we have seen the backlog of citizenship applications being taken care of. I've had one mate waiting to be naturalised since 2000, even though he's been here since he was 3 years old (as a PR since his teens) who just got his citizenship in march this year despite him being as stereotypically Thai as you can get. That could have only come via ministerial discretion which would have been discussed at cabinet level first.

Another thing is obviously this change in regulation. Again, that would have been at the behest of the minister, no doubt discussed at senior levels, which as the Chief Justice said, is a substantial change in the rules.

In terms of the legistlation change mentioned in the BKK post, I view this as a postive light, even though it got knocked down. Under the last government (I had a little to do with them - hence my bad feelings towards them), ministries and departments were basically brow beaten into submission, so that very little 'independent' advice was given to the minister or PM that didn't agree with the perceived views of government. It was a government and burecracy of 'yes' men and women.

The fact that the relevant ministry felt comfortable in being able to propose a relaxation in the law (and do it publically) speaks volumes for me. Yes it got knocked back, but there seems to be a valid discussion going on there which if you even attended a meeting of sychophant advisors under the last government, you'd be singing this junta's praises as well (at least on this matter).

But, that is only my humble opinion.

I think it is true what you say about the last government tightening up the requirements. From my experience, this 5 year PR rule is a recent thing.

The first time I attempted to apply for citizenship was pre-Thalksin in 1998, when I had just got my PR. At that time, as I recall, there was no 5 year PR rule, and my citizenship application would have been accepted had I not had a provincial address on my Tabien Bahn. Since I couldn't be bothered changing my address at that time, and was too busy with other things to travel upcountry to lodge and follow my application, I shelved the citizenship idea for a few years. Upon my more recent successful application in 2003, I did notice the 5 year PR requirement on the application checklist.

It could be that the new government has just reverted to the old set of rules, with the twist of 5 years including time spent on Non-Imm visas. Good news that they are making it easier though.

Sorry - this post was misplaced - should have followed Samran's post on comparisons between the old and new governments. Actually, during the military coup my citizenship application was outstanding and my immediate reaction was to write it off. I figured that a country under martial law ruled by a conservative military junta would be much less inclined to hand out citizenship than a more modern civilian government. Anyway, the application went through OK, and from what Samran is saying it seems the opposite is true ...

[TheChiefJustice]

Dbrenn, you are absolutely correct. The 5 years with PR requirement was introduced by the previous government. So, this is not so much a change as a reversion back to the way things were before Dr. Thaksin's government.

[grtaylor]

Well, its good news anyway. I'm waiting (patiently!) for my PR application to come through, so I might even stand a chance at going the next step before its time for me to retire!

G

[dbrenn]

Dbrenn, you are absolutely correct. The 5 years with PR requirement was introduced by the previous government. So, this is not so much a change as a reversion back to the way things were before Dr. Thaksin's government.

I see. But to give the old government its due, it did start signing approvals after a while, once it settled in. Kongsak Wanthana, the Interior Minister under Thaksin, did sign mine after sitting on it for a while. Mind you, all the Interior Ministers seem to sit on applications, signing groups of them sporadically on their way to and from the King's signature, seemingly without any rhyme nor reason. Some are done quickly, others take years on end.

[maxbkkguy]

For those of you who may be interested in applying for Thai citizenship, the previous requirement that a male applicant must have PR for 5 years before applying has been abolished. The new requirement is that the applicant must have PR and must have been in Thailand continuously for not less than 5 years under a non-immigrant visa category before applying for citizenship. The change means that anyone with PR, irrespective of how long you have had it, can apply for citizenship if they have been here on proper visas for not less than 5 years and meet the other qualifications for citizenship. Other threads on this board list the various qualifications.

This obviously applies to foreign men only. Foreign women do not need PR before making an application for Thai citizenship.

Do the applicant of thai citizenship need to read and write thai.

Or they only need to sing the thai national anthem and speak fluent thai will do.

Thanks !

[dbrenn]

For those of you who may be interested in applying for Thai citizenship, the previous requirement that a male applicant must have PR for 5 years before applying has been abolished. The new requirement is that the applicant must have PR and must have been in Thailand continuously for not less than 5 years under a non-immigrant visa category before applying for citizenship. The change means that anyone with PR, irrespective of how long you have had it, can apply for citizenship if they have been here on proper visas for not less than 5 years and meet the other qualifications for citizenship. Other threads on this board list the various qualifications.

This obviously applies to foreign men only. Foreign women do not need PR before making an application for Thai citizenship.

Do the applicant of thai citizenship need to read and write thai.

Or they only need to sing the thai national anthem and speak fluent thai will do.

Thanks !

Discussed here Story of My Thai Citizenship Application

[skippybangkok]

Trick Question:-

The requirement says that you should have a certain amount of salary "upon application". If the process takes a few years, and you were to resign in that period, is that ok ?

I cant predict what i will be doing in a few years from now, but would like to submit my application soon.

[tijnebijn]

It all dazzles me all together .

And that's only when i am thinking about it.

I wish all the luck for all who are going this way , I wish I would come in

this position one day.

[dbrenn]

Trick Question:-

The requirement says that you should have a certain amount of salary "upon application". If the process takes a few years, and you were to resign in that period, is that ok ?

I cant predict what i will be doing in a few years from now, but would like to submit my application soon.

You need to show your work permit upon application, and also when you are invited to the Interior Ministry to sing the National Anthem. In my case, this was around six months after my application.

After the Interior Ministry, I suppose you could in theory resign because there were (in my case) no subsequent checks on my documents.

[skippybangkok]

Thanks...

[dbrenn]

interesting.

I understand that this current government has been processing the backlog of applications that were not granted under the former reign of Deal Leader. Seems like they are trying to leave a bit of a positive legacy here too.

I would like to think you are being ironical but I have a feeling you might be completely serious.Beyond all comment.

progress and reform come slow. The fact that it is has relaxed the rules is always a huge step meaning that the wait time is cut down by at least three years for those go 3 years to PR with tax and the 2 on PR with tax gets them to citizenship. It opens up Thai citizenship as a realistic goal for 100's if not 1000's of expat workers here in a similar timeframe it takes to get say, British Nationality. Not something to be sniggered at.

Dunno what you were expecting...maybe a red carpet for you and a shiny brown Thai PP waiting for you when you disembarked at the airport?

You are profoundly mistaken I'm afraid.Firstly the relaxation of the rules has been muted for some time: I was told about it by my legal advisor over three years ago.Secondly the indications are that the military junta is opposed to any relaxation of the rules, at least according to the report in today's Bangkok Post - a response that I do not find surprising from this insular and incompetent government and which would tie in with the petulant xenophobia many on this forum have noted.Your comment on a "positive legacy" is simply inexplicable.Personally I received PR several years ago and have no interest in citizenship, but hopefully when this lamentable government has disappeared it will be possible to see some progress in easing the path to citizenship for those who seek it.To date there is nothing of substance to report at all.

How did you qualify for PR? I'm new here and just wondered. Thanks

There are other threads on that topic. You apply for PR at the immigration bureau, and applications are open at the end of each year. Bsically, you need to have been here at least three full years on a non-immigrant visa with no breaks, you need a reasonably well paid job with work permit, and you need three years evidence of having paid income tax. You don't have to be married, but if you are it costs less.

Go to immigration and get the latest checklist - seems rules are changing a lot these days.

[thaigene2]

interesting.

I understand that this current government has been processing the backlog of applications that were not granted under the former reign of Deal Leader. Seems like they are trying to leave a bit of a positive legacy here too.

I would like to think you are being ironical but I have a feeling you might be completely serious.Beyond all comment.

progress and reform come slow. The fact that it is has relaxed the rules is always a huge step meaning that the wait time is cut down by at least three years for those go 3 years to PR with tax and the 2 on PR with tax gets them to citizenship. It opens up Thai citizenship as a realistic goal for 100's if not 1000's of expat workers here in a similar timeframe it takes to get say, British Nationality. Not something to be sniggered at.

Dunno what you were expecting...maybe a red carpet for you and a shiny brown Thai PP waiting for you when you disembarked at the airport?

You are profoundly mistaken I'm afraid.Firstly the relaxation of the rules has been muted for some time: I was told about it by my legal advisor over three years ago.Secondly the indications are that the military junta is opposed to any relaxation of the rules, at least according to the report in today's Bangkok Post - a response that I do not find surprising from this insular and incompetent government and which would tie in with the petulant xenophobia many on this forum have noted.Your comment on a "positive legacy" is simply inexplicable.Personally I received PR several years ago and have no interest in citizenship, but hopefully when this lamentable government has disappeared it will be possible to see some progress in easing the path to citizenship for those who seek it.To date there is nothing of substance to report at all.

Most likely the most correct observation so far...

[bloody tiger]

I don't fully agree with you that the right comparison is like with like since the Thais are allowed in our homecountries everything which we are denied in theirs.

Do you mean like how any westerner can come to thailand and recieve a entry on arrival stamp without any background check, due process or fee?

Or do you mean like how if a Thai wishes to visit a western country they will have to apply for a visa, in a lot of cases be scrutinised and even humiliated by western embassy staff(although these are often Thai staff!). For most there will be a large fee up to thousands of baht, quite often nessecitating overnight or multiple night stays in BKK thus adding to costs. For many who have had long and solid marrages to a westener, even bearing their children who become western citizens also, they will still have to go through this whole visa process when visiting that western country. Is this waht you mean when you say that "Thais are allowed in our homecountries everything which we are denied in theirs"?

I agree that it has been a unsettling time, with regards to residency and visa issues, for those of us wish to make Thailand our home, but PLEASE do not always be so quick to assume that Thai's are always treated so much better in our reciprical countries. Just remember that any Thai, who has a passport and enough money for a plane ticket, can't just hop on a plane and on arrival will be greeted with a smile and a entry on arrival stamp in their passport.

I hope that the future will be brighter for long term "commited to Thailand" foriegners and I also hope that one day my wife can travel freely throughout the world alongside her husband and HER children.

[otton]

I don't fully agree with you that the right comparison is like with like since the Thais are allowed in our homecountries everything which we are denied in theirs.

Do you mean like how any westerner can come to thailand and recieve a entry on arrival stamp without any background check, due process or fee?

Or do you mean like how if a Thai wishes to visit a western country they will have to apply for a visa, in a lot of cases be scrutinised and even humiliated by western embassy staff(although these are often Thai staff!). For most there will be a large fee up to thousands of baht, quite often nessecitating overnight or multiple night stays in BKK thus adding to costs. For many who have had long and solid marrages to a westener, even bearing their children who become western citizens also, they will still have to go through this whole visa process when visiting that western country. Is this waht you mean when you say that "Thais are allowed in our homecountries everything which we are denied in theirs"?

I agree that it has been a unsettling time, with regards to residency and visa issues, for those of us wish to make Thailand our home, but PLEASE do not always be so quick to assume that Thai's are always treated so much better in our reciprical countries. Just remember that any Thai, who has a passport and enough money for a plane ticket, can't just hop on a plane and on arrival will be greeted with a smile and a entry on arrival stamp in their passport.

I hope that the future will be brighter for long term "commited to Thailand" foriegners and I also hope that one day my wife can travel freely throughout the world alongside her husband and HER children.

Here is your answer: www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=129155

[bloody tiger]

I don't fully agree with you that the right comparison is like with like since the Thais are allowed in our homecountries everything which we are denied in theirs.

Do you mean like how any westerner can come to thailand and recieve a entry on arrival stamp without any background check, due process or fee?

Or do you mean like how if a Thai wishes to visit a western country they will have to apply for a visa, in a lot of cases be scrutinised and even humiliated by western embassy staff(although these are often Thai staff!). For most there will be a large fee up to thousands of baht, quite often nessecitating overnight or multiple night stays in BKK thus adding to costs. For many who have had long and solid marrages to a westener, even bearing their children who become western citizens also, they will still have to go through this whole visa process when visiting that western country. Is this waht you mean when you say that "Thais are allowed in our homecountries everything which we are denied in theirs"?

I agree that it has been a unsettling time, with regards to residency and visa issues, for those of us wish to make Thailand our home, but PLEASE do not always be so quick to assume that Thai's are always treated so much better in our reciprical countries. Just remember that any Thai, who has a passport and enough money for a plane ticket, can't just hop on a plane and on arrival will be greeted with a smile and a entry on arrival stamp in their passport.

I hope that the future will be brighter for long term "commited to Thailand" foriegners and I also hope that one day my wife can travel freely throughout the world alongside her husband and HER children.

Here is your answer: www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=129155

Now i see the following:

You make a blanket statement satating "Thais are allowed in our homecountries everything which we are denied in theirs"

I answer with a very reasonable FACT that even the most basic of entry rights for tourist is so absolutely far removed from your statement that "Thais are allowed in our homecountries everything which we are denied in theirs"

You reply with another thread which tries to give some legitimacy to why thai's have to go through this visa process without actually answering your blatantly STUPID remark that "Thais are allowed in our homecountries everything which we are denied in theirs"

When people such as yourself come to these ludicrous statements you build a stereo type of the Thai person that is far removed from the truth. I don't know if it because of a lack of education or knowledge on the subject matter, or because you have a holier than thous attitude which unfortunately some guests of Thailand and other non-western countries have.

You need to wake up and look at the facts...not make absurd statements which are wrong in so many ways.

I'll say it again...I hope that over the course of time that there will be a bright future for foriegners committed to Thailand and at the same time i hope that western countries become more liberal with entry on arrival stamps for Thai's.

[dbrenn]

I don't fully agree with you that the right comparison is like with like since the Thais are allowed in our homecountries everything which we are denied in theirs.

Do you mean like how any westerner can come to thailand and recieve a entry on arrival stamp without any background check, due process or fee?

Or do you mean like how if a Thai wishes to visit a western country they will have to apply for a visa, in a lot of cases be scrutinised and even humiliated by western embassy staff(although these are often Thai staff!). For most there will be a large fee up to thousands of baht, quite often nessecitating overnight or multiple night stays in BKK thus adding to costs. For many who have had long and solid marrages to a westener, even bearing their children who become western citizens also, they will still have to go through this whole visa process when visiting that western country. Is this waht you mean when you say that "Thais are allowed in our homecountries everything which we are denied in theirs"?

I agree that it has been a unsettling time, with regards to residency and visa issues, for those of us wish to make Thailand our home, but PLEASE do not always be so quick to assume that Thai's are always treated so much better in our reciprical countries. Just remember that any Thai, who has a passport and enough money for a plane ticket, can't just hop on a plane and on arrival will be greeted with a smile and a entry on arrival stamp in their passport.

I hope that the future will be brighter for long term "commited to Thailand" foriegners and I also hope that one day my wife can travel freely throughout the world alongside her husband and HER children.

Here is your answer: www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=129155

Now i see the following:

You make a blanket statement satating "Thais are allowed in our homecountries everything which we are denied in theirs"

I answer with a very reasonable FACT that even the most basic of entry rights for tourist is so absolutely far removed from your statement that "Thais are allowed in our homecountries everything which we are denied in theirs"

You reply with another thread which tries to give some legitimacy to why thai's have to go through this visa process without actually answering your blatantly STUPID remark that "Thais are allowed in our homecountries everything which we are denied in theirs"

When people such as yourself come to these ludicrous statements you build a stereo type of the Thai person that is far removed from the truth. I don't know if it because of a lack of education or knowledge on the subject matter, or because you have a holier than thous attitude which unfortunately some guests of Thailand and other non-western countries have.

You need to wake up and look at the facts...not make absurd statements which are wrong in so many ways.

I'll say it again...I hope that over the course of time that there will be a bright future for foriegners committed to Thailand and at the same time i hope that western countries become more liberal with entry on arrival stamps for Thai's.

The point is that immigration laws aren't fair anywhere, they only serve the national interest:

1) Most western countries only grant skilled migrant visas to people with solid professions and under a certain age - blatant elitism, not to mention agism, which is illegal in most of those countries.

2) Same westernm countries won't allow in people with infectious diseases, blatantly discriminating against people with special needs

3) Criminals aren't welcome anywhere - shouldn't the west, as guardians of moral standards, be trying to rehabilitate foreign offenders who9 may not enjoy the same opportuni9ties in their home countries?

4) Then there is the discrimination against those poor tourists that you so rightly describe. Have you ever heard of Thais living in the UK for years on end by circumventing the rules doing visa runs?

Now that we are again on the topic of whining about lack of perfect global equality, mother nature isn't fair either:

1) Some people are born handicapped

2) Different people are born with a different IQ, which has a direct bearing on their employment prospects in later life

3) Many people are born in war-torn countries, and die in early childhood from famine or war, etc, etc, etc ...

Life isn't fair, unfortunately. Going back to Thai immigration, sure the laws differ in certain ways from other places, but then again no two countries have the same set of laws. Not much we can do about it though, because Thailand considers that it can live perfectly well without foreigners living here illegally and avoiding tax by bending the rules. Getting residence, citizenship, whatever is not that difficult in Thailand, but it does mean living and working here bona fide, and also it means paying personal income tax. A way of life that some people understandably might not want to follow if they enjoy better opportunities elsewhere and are not able to meet the requirements.

[otton]

You make a blanket statement satating "Thais are allowed in our homecountries everything which we are denied in theirs"

I answer with a very reasonable FACT that even the most basic of entry rights for tourist is so absolutely far removed from your statement that "Thais are allowed in our homecountries everything which we are denied in theirs"

Entry rights for tourists (and "retirement visa") are just about the ONLY things which we are not denied in Thailand (because they benefit Thailand FAR MORE than they benefit us) so they are the 2 things that my reply CLEARLY and EXPLICITLY excludes.

That link to that thread was meant to show you WHY Thais don't get tourist visas so easily (because they are, in the majority of the cases, NOT tourists) and what we grant them (which in the majority of the cases DON'T benefit our homecountries but are a NET BURDEN) and they don't grant us.

Look at what happened in New Zealand when they have been granting, for a while, easy TVs to Thais. They became the WORST overstayers of them all (with all of them ending up illegally working, particularly in the local sex industry) and immi regs had to be quickly changed back to match those of the rest of the richer than Thailand countries...

You reply with another thread which tries to give some legitimacy to why thai's have to go through this visa process without actually answering your blatantly STUPID remark that "Thais are allowed in our homecountries everything which we are denied in theirs"

And you reply in that thread with a blatantly STUPID remark about the size of the waiting room at the Thai embassy in Rome.

Your post there starts with: "BLAH BLAH BLAH....". It says it all.

[stuntmanmike]

Hey guys;

Is it possible to apply for PR after having lived in Thailand for 5 years on tourist visas ? Or does only non-immigrant ones count ?

Thx

[lopburi3]

Please keep the personal attacks under wraps. It is a serious issue and there are many good points being brought up by all sides. Please try to keep the discussion on the issues. Thanks.

[Richardj]

I don't fully agree with you that the right comparison is like with like since the Thais are allowed in our homecountries everything which we are denied in theirs.

Do you mean like how any westerner can come to thailand and recieve a entry on arrival stamp without any background check, due process or fee?

Or do you mean like how if a Thai wishes to visit a western country they will have to apply for a visa, in a lot of cases be scrutinised and even humiliated by western embassy staff(although these are often Thai staff!). <snip>

For many who have had long and solid marrages to a westener, even bearing their children who become western citizens also, they will still have to go through this whole visa process when visiting that western country. Is this waht you mean when you say that "Thais are allowed in our homecountries everything which we are denied in theirs"?

I find this information should be rebutted to a certain extent. I am married to a Thai and have had no problem traveling in Europe with her. I think this is in part due to preparation and effort. The first time we applied for her to accompany me to the UK, not only did we bring the required documents, but we added a copy of my bank statements, here and in the UK, with a letter from me promising to use all my financial resources to assist her should it be needed. This appeared to help. Although at home she dresses in shorts and a t-shirt, she had her hair done and wore a decent dress to the interview. 

Of more concern, and coming back to the thread's main topic, I am surprised that constitutionally, the government is allowed still to discriminate between male and female requests for nationality and wonder whether this could be disputed legally. I do understand that the Constitution may be interpreted as affecting only Thais, however, it is a supreme law that should affect everyone in the country.

[camerata]

Hey guys;

Is it possible to apply for PR after having lived in Thailand for 5 years on tourist visas ?

No. See the Guide to Permanent Residence.

[dbrenn]

Hey guys;

Is it possible to apply for PR after having lived in Thailand for 5 years on tourist visas ? Or does only non-immigrant ones count ?

Thx

Only Non-Immigrannt visas count. You need three consecutive one-year extensions with no breaks, and also a work permit. You also need to show that you have paid personal income tax in Thailand for those three years.

Like most other places, tourists visas are issued to people who declare that their intended visit is for the purposes of tourism, i.e., they are not supposed to work, are expected to import sufficient funds for the duration of their stay, do not file tax returns and are not issued work permits.

[otton]

Hey guys;

Is it possible to apply for PR after having lived in Thailand for 5 years on tourist visas ? Or does only non-immigrant ones count ?Thx

It's not possible and many non-IMMs DO NOT count as well.

For example, even if you are living in Thailand supporting your Thai wife and your Thai children you won't be granted PR if your income comes from outside Thailand.

In practice, if it's too low (by "too low" they mean of course less than 10-15 times the average Thai income...) your application will most likely be rejected even if you have been working IN Thailand (which is the most important requirement).

[apex2000]

"The bill also allows all Thai citizens to ask for citizenship for their adopted non-Thai children."

So, if I get an older Thai to adopt me, he or she can then apply for Thai citizenship for me at some time?

[skippybangkok]

My wifes 90 year grandpa wanted to adopt me Apparently this worked 30 years back. Not sure about now.

[Thanh-BKK]

Hello

I just want to add something here about the things a little bit further up (home country benefits vs. Thailand), based on my own experience living amongs foreigners in my home country, and BEING a foreigner here. My home country is Germany.

It is difficult for a Thai to get a Visa for Germany for several reasons. One is the fact that there are no border controls between european countries - got a visa for "Germany", can travel all around Europe. Got Visa for Thailand, can travel - to Thailand, and that's it.

Once a Thai HAS a visa for Germany, this can be extended FROM WITHIN GERMANY if the thai person has found a new partner (girlfriend/boyfriend) there. Marriage is no problem if paperwork is supplied.

Once married, a thai person in Germany automatically is granted a "long term permit to stay", basically what could be compared to "Permanent Residency Permit" here. This also automatically includes a working permit - without ANY restrictions, any profession and/or location is permitted! Here? Even if married to a thai person, the foreigner gets nothing - still has to do visa runs, get extra work permit which is restricted to a single profession and location, etc.

Next - after being married in Germany for no more than five years, a thai person can apply for german citizenship. This will include a written and oral test of knowledge in german language, legals etc. This test is very easy to pass. Hence - german citizenship will be granted, which can not be revoked even if the thai person divorces an hour later. Here? Anyone actuyally GOT thai citizenship? Is it at all possible..??

Next. Even if on a toursit visa, if a thai person in Germany is involved in an accident or somehow gets seriously ill, there is free medical treatment. No hospital will turn down an injured or seriously sick person even if they are not in the german health care system. Here? Sick and no money? Go pray...........

Next. Have a work permit and work in Germany? Well, if a thai person manages to work fully employed and paying tax and social insurance for no longer than three months and then loses the job, the social system will pay compensation - for the rest of that person's life, if no job is found. Here? No job, no food? Go pray...........

Next. Anyone who is in Germany, regardless on what kind of visa, and provided that person has the money, can buy land, house, vehicle etc as much as they can pay for. Even a "tourist" can buy an apartment block and immediately start collecting the rents, even having that money transferred right to Thailand. Here? Well it's ok to buy a car or motorbike, but the hassle starts with getting it insured and doesn't end with having it registered in your name. Ever tried buying a piece of land here, even after living here for 10 years, being fluent in Thai and having a work permit and 100.000 Baht taxed income per month?

And lastly - many thai people who come to Germany on tourist visas simply stay there and work illegally, either in "chinese" restaurants (which are to 90% run by vietnamese, and most of the rest by thai people) or in the booming sex industry (which is 100% legal in Germany). If they are caught, the worst that can happen is they are deported - for which the german government pays! Here? Well many foreigners who fall in love with Thailand surely also work illegally to make ends meet - be it as "teacher" or whatever, but they rather do something good for the thai economy - not many people in Germany wish to learn thai language while the demand for "english" in Thailand is high. Plus if you're to be deported here, you'll rot in jail until YOU found someone who pays your ticket home!

And the only thing we Germans get in return from Thailand is a visa-free entry for 30 days which permits us to spend our money here and then get the hel_l back home. If Thais would come to Germany to spend money THERE it would be just as easy for them. (Americans travel visa-free to Germany and can stay as long as they want, just as Germans travel visa-free to the U.S.A. and may stay as long as they want).

Best regards.....

Thanh

[skippybangkok]

Yes, but who would want to live in Germany ?

[Arkady]

My wifes 90 year grandpa wanted to adopt me Apparently this worked 30 years back. Not sure about now.

Foreign children adopted by Thai parents are still in limbo. The Sarayud cabinet rejected a bill that would have, among other things, allowed them nationality. So definitely no hope for adults trying this route.