The absurdity of the LTR handling

[SingAPorn]

Lot of noise was made for the LTR visa and long term stay granted to the categories of qualified of individuals.

 

Besides the usual bureaucratic demands from different govt agencies, one of the LTR requests that can suddenly emerge from nowhere on a "case-to-case basis"  is to provide a full year of bank statements translated if not in english.

 

Rather an absurd and useless harassment in the LTR visa handling process. Why ?

 

Because when such documents  are not in english language, they ask for a full translation of the whole set of annual bank statements.

 

This penalises all the qualified people from Europe with this harassment. A bank statement and mainly the numbers are universal language and any english speaking person can read the numbers should they be in german, danish or italian....

 

Translation also has a hefty price that thai translators that love to overcharge in Europe. The cost just to translate such a load of bank documents, makes it no point to go for the LTR visa in Thailand.

 

Such requirements are absurd and discriminatory towards western european nations.

 

Why can the agencies  not be satisfied plainly with the translated tax returns that are official documents ?

 

No wonder so many qualified retirees from Europe will chose to spend and buy property elsewhere then in Thailand with such absurd LTR requirements.

 

The red tape is just not acceptable anymore considering how simple the whole process is in other Asian Nations or in the Indian Subcontinent.

 

The LTR visa is definately is not worth the game.

Edited April 26 by SingAPorn

[Sigmund]

Not surprising. Depending who is handling immigration red tape strange new rules are pulled up, depending on the mood of the day !!!!......Philippines or Vietnam seem better choices. Thailand will end up with only with troublesome chinese or russian tourists who won't spend. 

 

The good money spenders amongst the expats or retirees from Europe, like those who own property in Thailand, will chose to sell and prefer other countries...or they will still come every year but stay and spend for less time.  Never understood why they do not hand out long stay visa to the retirees who own property on freehold or leasehold ? Thai logic.

[eisfeld]

Over the past decade I have whitnessed the Thai visa requirements going up both in price and burden on the applicants. It used to be a 5 minute process for me to apply in the consulate of my home country and was very straight foward and easy. Now it's multiple week process during which I can't talk to anyone (e-visa, in-person not allowed anymore) and a lot of documents being asked for. The process is also completely in english which a lot of older people are not comfortable with. I have now heard from over a dozen people who used to spend winter in Thailand and considered completely moving there for retirement that they gave up and chose other countries. I myself while not being at retirement age anytime soon am also getting annoyed more and more. I've experienced immigration officials coming up with completely made up requirements and issues now and then for no discernable reason. At some point it's just enough and you stop and ask yourself if that waste of your time and energy has to be in your life. People who have plenty of choices don't take the crap forever.

[Middle Aged Grouch]

The LTR visa scheme for working or retired candidates, started on a good intention and was elaborated by intelligent people.

 

But involving Immigration Office was a mistake as they will do everything to harass the candidates and ask for the idiotic documents to be translated etc.

 

Why ask for a bank statement for instance, if they get say a certified translated and notorised statement from the pension fund institution,  cetifying the pension amount paid monthly ? This is just one exemple of many, on how the Immigration office is harming all the intelligent incentives to encourage the good spenders to come to Thailand. Why do the top level respected political members  not do something to stop all this rubbish ?

[ukrules]

7 hours ago, SingAPorn said:

Translation also has a hefty price that thai translators that love to overcharge in Europe. The cost just to translate such a load of bank documents, makes it no point to go for the LTR visa in Thailand

 

Can't you get the translation done in Thailand much cheaper? I guess it depends on the language but I'm sure there's a way.

 

[Tomio]

I just received my approved LTR-WP. It tooke exactly one and a half months to complete the process. I had to deal with the Thai Consulate in Los Angeles which probably lengthen the time it took to complete. Was it an easy process? Not at all. But at least it was doable. Because I dealt with the Consulate it was a little bit more costly - $1600 versus 50,000 baht. Plus, having to do everything on line, it was not easy getting answers from them such as status of my application. All in all, although extremely frustrating at times, it was all worth it at the end 

[SHA 2 BKK]

The bank statement stuff must be new.    I got my LTR in 2023.   Only my Tax return in Australia, two pension payslips, purchase of my condo and Thai Health Insurance Certificate shown.  Done and dusted in three weeks.  

[Presnock]

I had the opposite experience in obtaining the LTR.  Took a total of 3 weeks.  Yeah, they didn't understand that the 1099R sent to retirees is on one sheet with 4 copies of the statement of yearly salary which is what they needed.  I had monthly annuity payments too but that too had to be multiplied by 12 to obtain the yearly salary so could not be used.  We settled on a copy of my annual IRS tax form (1040) which shows the annual salary paid too.  Yeah, fortunately I am an American so all my documentation was in English and they had zero problems with that.  The officers at the BOI were always extremely polite and helpful in dealing with me via telephone.  3 weeks from start to finish in my opinion was very quick!  Hopefully it will be so for most of the applicants.

[Scouse123]

I used to own land and property in the resort cities, through my companies etc

 

I did the houses in Isaarn, for my other half whilst I was active in business in the big cities. I am glad we did them way back when.

 

Now, when I see how it is all developing, constant rule changing, the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing, these latest ideas about taxing ex-pats on foreign income, overt nationalism, and in cases, racism being displayed by the government ministers, I am glad to be out of it.

 

The country is becoming a giant basket case of errors and mistakes, by those in charge, it's worse than ever.

 

They leap from one cockup to the next.

[MPoll]

English translations of documents required for various government services is standard here in Thailand. It’s not new. That it is expensive to translate documents in Europe is not the BOI’s problem. The Thai immigration involvement is integral to the LTR process. You are asking to get a visa after all.

 

I got my pensioner LTR in January 2023. The process was incredibly easy (compared to the 1 year extension process) and the BOI has been incredibly helpful.

[Tom Parkinson]

I applied on 4 September 2022, three days after the LTR program was announced. The only hiccup I had was that I had to run to Hong Kong to renew my Permanent Residency there while Thai immigration was processing my BOI-approved LTR application. Immigration then canceled my application because I was abroad (for a total of 18 hours, as it happened).  Once I got the BOI involved again, they sorted it all out very quickly.  Yes, it was the usual bureaucratic hassle, but it sure beats doing the annual Chaeng Wattana shuffle. 

[Wake Up1]

Sorry for your troubles. My experience was the LTR people in the office and online were helpful and great. I did not have to have any bank statements translated  for my application. I needed my  retirement account year end statement and tax return and health insurance. The LTR makes life in Bangkok so much better. No chang wattana ever again. 

[Satcommlee]

Are you saying immigration/visa proceedures are biased towards foreigners 🙂

Edited April 27 by Satcommlee

[Captain Monday]

I would be interested in the LTR  I have plenty of assets and income, but no passive income so as a ”Weathy Global Person” I need to invest $USD 500k in more real estate or Thai govt bonds. Seems unresonable a person who has pension passive income a fraction of my yearly income from wages is allowed, but I need to now drop 500 k?

Not for me. Thailand 

 

Actually the evisa system a game changer. I had to apply for a second passport previously  as I need to have my primary passport in possession at all times for work purposes. I just was granted a new non imm visa  in record time of 4th working day by noon local standard time.  Everything is getting easier. The application fees ? Have they gone up?

 

Captain Monday　ー ”Constant International Travel" 

[kimothai]

4 hours ago, SHA 2 BKK said:

The bank statement stuff must be new.    I got my LTR in 2023.   Only my Tax return in Australia, two pension payslips, purchase of my condo and Thai Health Insurance Certificate shown.  Done and dusted in three weeks.  

I don't think the bank statement is new at all.  I think the BOI was simply asking for additional information to verify income or possibly using bank money in lieu of health insurance.  I think there is an extenuating circumstance that required BOI to request the information noted.   You don't even need a bank account to receive an LTR visa.  As with so many posts on the forum there always seems to be information that is not included either inadvertently or conveniently.  My experience with the BOI was similar to yours (with USA data).  I think the BOI was extremely professional and most helpful when I had a question.      

[Tom100]

19 hours ago, SingAPorn said:

Such requirements are absurd and discriminatory towards western european nations.

 

Not absurd at all. I am happy you were rejected! Thailand does not need any more entitled angry expats. 

 

The Thai process is easier than that for obtaining some other retirement visas (e.g. Spain's Non-working (Non-lucrative) residence visa). 

 

I received my LTR in 3 months by following the rules and giving BOI all the docs they requested. No problem. 

 

Have a nice day! lol!

[F Groenen]

I applied on Oct.1 2022 for LTR-WFT. The process took 7 weeks, mostly due to me having to renew my health insurance. Getting in touch with BOI can be somewhat of a challenge, but once you reach one of their officers, they are always helpful and courteous.

Since I have been in TH already many years, all my non-english documents have already been translated in the past. Once you get them certified they can be used for years.

[john donson]

thais in our home countries have a path to residence, citizenship, work without 'permit' if married to local, no restrictions, pension age can work, no specific jobs, etc...

 

why the hell do long stay people not get automatic 'residency' status...

 

not asking for citizenship... 

 

but this tax bul.ship  might be the last straw...

 

taxation without representation...

[sabaiguy]

On 4/26/2024 at 5:25 PM, Presnock said:

I had the opposite experience in obtaining the LTR.  Took a total of 3 weeks.  Yeah, they didn't understand that the 1099R sent to retirees is on one sheet with 4 copies of the statement of yearly salary which is what they needed.  I had monthly annuity payments too but that too had to be multiplied by 12 to obtain the yearly salary so could not be used.  We settled on a copy of my annual IRS tax form (1040) which shows the annual salary paid too.  Yeah, fortunately I am an American so all my documentation was in English and they had zero problems with that.  The officers at the BOI were always extremely polite and helpful in dealing with me via telephone.  3 weeks from start to finish in my opinion was very quick!  Hopefully it will be so for most of the applicants.

Almost exactly my experience.  3 weeks for approval.  They won't give you an appointment (final step) until you're in Thailand and can show them your arrival stamps.  Arrived 4 days ago and waiting for my appointment.  Had a few minor issues (easily overcome)  but overall can't say enough about how helpful the BOI staff was.  Every question was responded to in hours if not minutes.  LTR,  I call it the Thai "Green Card",

[Ben Zioner]

On 4/26/2024 at 5:47 PM, SingAPorn said:

Lot of noise was made for the LTR visa and long term stay granted to the categories of qualified of individuals.

 

Besides the usual bureaucratic demands from different govt agencies, one of the LTR requests that can suddenly emerge from nowhere on a "case-to-case basis"  is to provide a full year of bank statements translated if not in english.

 

Rather an absurd and useless harassment in the LTR visa handling process. Why ?

 

Because when such documents  are not in english language, they ask for a full translation of the whole set of annual bank statements.

 

This penalises all tmixing, fihe qualified people from Europe with this harassment. A bank statement and mainly the numbers are universal language and any english speaking person can read the numbers should they be in german, danish or italian....

 

Translation also has a hefty price that thai translators that love to overcharge in Europe. The cost just to translate such a load of bank documents, makes it no point to go for the LTR visa in Thailand.

 

Such requirements are absurd and discriminatory towards western european nations.

 

Why can the agencies  not be satisfied plainly with the translated tax returns that are official documents ?

 

No wonder so many qualified retirees from Europe will chose to spend and buy property elsewhere then in Thailand with such absurd LTR requirements.

 

The red tape is just not acceptable anymore considering how simple the whole process is in other Asian Nations or in the Indian Subcontinent.

 

The LTR visa is definately is not worth the game.

 

May I ask you if you have submitted an application for LTR? And if so, do you match the requirement fair and square without any mixing, shifting, or fiddling?

 

I got my visa with about two hours of homework, less tham that at Chamchuri and zero frustration, and I applied under a western european passport.

 

 

[oldcpu]

On 4/26/2024 at 5:47 PM, SingAPorn said:

Because when such documents  are not in english language, they ask for a full translation of the whole set of annual bank statements.

....

Translation also has a hefty price that thai translators that love to overcharge in Europe. The cost just to translate such a load of bank documents, makes it no point to go for the LTR visa in Thailand.

 

All this because you dislike paying a small amount of money for a translation? 

 

Translation is not very expensive.

 

If you can't afford the translation, then like you note, an LTR visa is likely not for you IMHO.

 

Fortunately Thailand has many other Visa options for you, as LTR is not the only one.

 

Although I caution you, given your dislike to pay for translations,  not to go for a Visa (or permission to stay extension on a visa) for reason of marriage if you were married to a Thai spouse outside of Thailand. 

 

In that case (visa/extension for reason of marriage to a Thai spouse) you will need not only translations of your passport and translations of your foreign marriage certificate, but you will also need certification at your country's consulate/embassy in Thailand for the marriage certificate, and also need the Thai foreign affairs office in Bangkok to bless it all, and then you will need to have to register your foreign marriage (with this certified paperwork as proof) in a local Thai office.  That translation effort is MASSIVELY greater than any LTR visa translation requirement.

 

 

On 4/26/2024 at 5:47 PM, SingAPorn said:

The LTR visa is definately is not worth the game.

 

Not worth for it for you ONLY, given your dislike to spend even a small amount of money for a translation.

 

For some of us it is a great improvement.

 

No more 90 day reports. No more going to immigration once a year for an extension.  Access to Fast Track line at the airport immigration for our multiple per year international travel.  And its cost is approximately equal to a non-immigration Type-O or Type-OA (with multiple re-entry) when they are amortized over a 10 year period.    Plus - the LTR has a  tax "break" (by Royal Thai Decree) where money brought into Thailand from abroad will not be taxed by Thailand if on an LTR visa.  One can not say the same about a tax break for other Thai Visa holders in cases where there is no Double Tax Agreement (DTA), or inadequate DTA, with the country in which their foreign income is sourced. 

 

LTR is definitely 'worth the game' for some of us. 

Edited Tuesday at 03:37 PM by oldcpu