"White people can never be Thai, no matter how much they try"

Trying to be Thai is not the same as trying to integrate :)

15 minutes ago, simon43 said:

Hi Nick, I can see exactly what you're doing with your deflection tactics :) I have no personal axe to grind against any one nationality, but you'd be amazed at the antics of this one nationality, (I recognise their language). Going into 7/11 shops 1km from the beach wearing just a thong bikini - that's a daily occurance, and the 7/11 staff (and I) totally gobsmacked at this arrogance. Come and visit and chat to the locals - good perhaps that these foreigners don't understand what the 7/11 staff are saying, but 'garee' is a regular word :)

Oh I see, I remember now.

Those three French speaking Arabic guys in a 7/11

56 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Oh I see, I remember now.

Those three French speaking Arabic guys in a 7/11

Lol - that event occurs on numerous occasions every day on Phangan Island, (to the shock and amusement of the locals). I can't recall hearing any Arabic, but plenty of French... But why on Earth could anyone think it acceptable to wander around in a thong and with your ti ts almost hanging out when not on the beach? What sort of education/upbringing did they have?? (That man should at least put a bra on...lol)

Edited July 23Jul 23 by simon43

2 hours ago, simon43 said:

"White people can never be Thai, no matter how much they try"

Trying to be Thai is not the same as trying to integrate :)

Despite your impressive language skills and your ease of circulating with the locals, you have not integrated. Integration requires one to become part of the local society and culture. Integration requires a physical presence within the institutions and life of the community. A person who serves in the local government or public institutions is integrated. We see that in western countries where immigrants are elected as MPs or appointed to government committees, or elected to school boards etc. Of more importance is understanding one's place in the social hierarchy.

There is no argument that you are able to respect local norms and culture, but anyone can do that if they have common sense and some modicum of politeness. Even I can do that and I am not integrated nor part of the local culture. (especially not now, as I am in London at this week. 😁 ) You will never be asked to become village head or to chair the local green initiative. Neither will I. The reality for me is that my parents' social status and position, my job and my financial status carries far more social weight than my ability to speak Thai or to eat Thai food or wai at a monk. I get a pass, or more aptly put, an indulgence because of that. I don't have to integrate, but I have to know my place in the social hierarchy. As long as I stay in my lane and don't get lippy to those who Thailand says occupy a higher social status than me, despite my being better educated or wealthier, I am allowed to exist in Thailand. Thailand has a rigid social hierarchy and it's one of those things that if you know, you know. This is an aspect that is foreign to many westerners with the Scandinavians often being clueless and lost because they come from a culture of informality. Many Asians get it and they navigate it much better than westerners.

11 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

My experience in CNX for almost 8 years is most local people don't want us foreigners to actually settle. They prefer to keep most of us at a safe distance. Like pay for products and services and then go back to our respective residences until the next time. Once I figured this out I maintain a low profile and get on with my time here until it ends. This is my reality and others might have a different perspective.

What or where is CNX

5 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

What or where is CNX

Chiang Mai

Just now, brewsterbudgen said:

Chiang Mai

Well one learns something new everyday ! "patts" and "bangers" annoying but its obvious where the words refer too , but CNX is nothing like "Chiang Mai" , bloody ridiculous

Edited July 23Jul 23 by Bday Prang

22 hours ago, 3NUMBAS said:

i get local women come to my front door and give me a titty rub so i must be integrating

You got nice titties then?

12 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

At least Chinese are not like this at BKK. This was at ICN.

They do cut in front of people lined up for the elevator in Thailand.

2 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

Despite your impressive language skills and your ease of circulating with the locals, you have not integrated. Integration requires one to become part of the local society and culture. Integration requires a physical presence within the institutions and life of the community. A person who serves in the local government or public institutions is integrated. We see that in western countries where immigrants are elected as MPs or appointed to government committees, or elected to school boards etc. Of more importance is understanding one's place in the social hierarchy.

There is no argument that you are able to respect local norms and culture, but anyone can do that if they have common sense and some modicum of politeness. Even I can do that and I am not integrated nor part of the local culture. (especially not now, as I am in London at this week. 😁 ) You will never be asked to become village head or to chair the local green initiative. Neither will I. The reality for me is that my parents' social status and position, my job and my financial status carries far more social weight than my ability to speak Thai or to eat Thai food or wai at a monk. I get a pass, or more aptly put, an indulgence because of that. I don't have to integrate, but I have to know my place in the social hierarchy. As long as I stay in my lane and don't get lippy to those who Thailand says occupy a higher social status than me, despite my being better educated or wealthier, I am allowed to exist in Thailand. Thailand has a rigid social hierarchy and it's one of those things that if you know, you know. This is an aspect that is foreign to many westerners with the Scandinavians often being clueless and lost because they come from a culture of informality. Many Asians get it and they navigate it much better than westerners.

You've made some excellent points but I think I disagree on the structure of your argument. You've made it a binary issue; integrated or not, id argue that it's a spectrum. You've also prioritised citizen rights, I'm not sure about that too. In the UK recently the mother of a Sikh murderer got three years for hiding the murder weapon. She had been in the UK 30 years, no doubt had a passport, the right to both benefits and the vote but couldn't understand a word of English in court. Integrated she was not.

I would say Simon has integrated more than her to Thailand and also if you asked the local thais that he interacts with they would say he's more "Thai" than the ethnically British would say the sikh mother was British.

I integrated into Thai culture perfectly.

I never paid sinsod, I cheated and let all my wives bring me their salary

I'm going to have to Google 'Thai culture' as I haven't a clue. If someone asked what 'USA culture' was, I haven't a clue about that either.

Well that was a quick study, basically no difference at all, depending how one is raised, e.g. respect your elders, as I was.

Unless you bring religion into it, and that's a personal choice for both 'cultures'. My Thai wife is Atheist also. Daughter is part of both, Buddhist & Christian, go figure.

Edited Thursday at 06:12 PM5 days by KhunLA

I wonder when people recommend learning Thai and claim or imply that they are fluent, have they had an objective assessment of their command of the Thai language?

I don't mean that taxi drivers compliment your grasp of Thai, I mean something like the Chula CU-TFL (Chulalongkorn University Thai Proficiency Test of Thai as a Foreign Language).

I have limited language learning aptitude ( ok I'm dumb) and I study Thai every day.

Realistically I will never progress beyond the beginner level.

As with many things people express about themselves on AN, I wonder how accurate some people's self-assessments of their Thai language proficiency is.

Just to be clear I have never noticed any tendency of AN members to err on the side of humility when doing any sort of self-assessment and I am wondering to what extent this is the case with the self-proclaimed fluent speakers of Thai.

On 7/22/2026 at 6:05 PM, simon43 said:

But not being a Thai citizen doesn't exclude you from the vast majority of activites, basically not owning land and that's about it. If you reside in Thailand but am a foreigner and don't integrate you are - as I said - on a par with the Muslim ghettos in the UK - communities refusing to integrate with the general, local population.

Charity begins at home. So does immigration policy.

29 minutes ago, cdemundo said:

I wonder when people recommend learning Thai and claim or imply that they are fluent, have they had an objective assessment of their command of the Thai language?

I don't mean that taxi drivers compliment your grasp of Thai, I mean something like the Chula CU-TFL (Chulalongkorn University Thai Proficiency Test of Thai as a Foreign Language).

I have limited language learning aptitude ( ok I'm dumb) and I study Thai every day.

Realistically I will never progress beyond the beginner level.

As with many things people express about themselves on AN, I wonder how accurate some people's self-assessments of their Thai language proficiency is.

Just to be clear I have never noticed any tendency of AN members to err on the side of humility when doing any sort of self-assessment and I am wondering to what extent this is the case with the self-proclaimed fluent speakers of Thai.

I think my Thai is pretty good :) I studied to MA level at Chula about 20 years ago, and the only time that I speak English in my daily life is teaching science to young Chinese students online (I don't have to speak Chinese!). But I wouldn't claim to be fluent - people listening to me speaking Thai without seeing my face would still guess that I'm not Thai.

Off-topic but funny. In a previous career I worked for the French space company Alcatel, at their base in Antwerpen (Belgium). I had to visit a French component supplier. I spoke French throughout the meetings. During the obligatory 2 hour lunch, the French manager (a little drunk from the good wine) leaned over to me and said "You know who I hate? The British!". Playing along, I asked him why and he launched into a tirade of anti-British sentiment. Finally, I had to put him out of his misery and told him that I was British. "No!! You can't be. You are speaking French. You're from Antwerpen in the Flemish-speaking region of Belgium!".

Such fun to see his mortified face..... :) He still got the supplier contract....

6 minutes ago, simon43 said:

I think my Thai is pretty good :) I studied to MA level at Chula about 20 years ago, and the only time that I speak English in my daily life is teaching science to young Chinese students online (I don't have to speak Chinese!). But I wouldn't claim to be fluent - people listening to me speaking Thai without seeing my face would still guess that I'm not Thai.

Off-topic but funny. In a previous career I worked for the French space company Alcatel, at their base in Antwerpen (Belgium). I had to visit a French component supplier. I spoke French throughout the meetings. During the obligatory 2 hour lunch, the French manager (a little drunk from the good wine) leaned over to me and said "You know who I hate? The British!". Playing along, I asked him why and he launched into a tirade of anti-British sentiment. Finally, I had to put him out of his misery and told him that I was British. "No!! You can't be. You are speaking French. You're from Antwerpen in the Flemish-speaking region of Belgium!".

Such fun to see his mortified face..... :) He still got the supplier contract....

6 minutes ago, simon43 said:

I think my Thai is pretty good :) I studied to MA level at Chula about 20 years ago, and the only time that I speak English in my daily life is teaching science to young Chinese students online (I don't have to speak Chinese!). But I wouldn't claim to be fluent - people listening to me speaking Thai without seeing my face would still guess that I'm not Thai.

Off-topic but funny. In a previous career I worked for the French space company Alcatel, at their base in Antwerpen (Belgium). I had to visit a French component supplier. I spoke French throughout the meetings. During the obligatory 2 hour lunch, the French manager (a little drunk from the good wine) leaned over to me and said "You know who I hate? The British!". Playing along, I asked him why and he launched into a tirade of anti-British sentiment. Finally, I had to put him out of his misery and told him that I was British. "No!! You can't be. You are speaking French. You're from Antwerpen in the Flemish-speaking region of Belgium!".

Such fun to see his mortified face..... :) He still got the supplier contract....

I think it sounds like you have a realistic assessment of your Thai proficiency.

And it sounds like you are quite accomplished, more power to you.

Unlike a poster who I read a post from immediately after posting my question above. He posted: "I'm half your age and I speak Thai"

"I speak Thai" can have a wide range of meanings, as a comparison a person might say

"I play the piano, would you rather hear 'Chopsticks' or 'Heart and Soul'?".

I often sit with racist Brits in Pattaya bars who pontificate that immigrants back in the UK don't integrate.

Yet the hyprocrisy is lost on them, that they sit in Pattaya bars at 11am, demanding British breakfasts, whilst never bothering to have learnt a word of Thai.

If you are a foreigner living in Thailand for a few years at least and haven't learnt the language then shame on you.

14 hours ago, Bday Prang said:

Well one learns something new everyday ! "patts" and "bangers" annoying but its obvious where the words refer too , but CNX is nothing like "Chiang Mai" , bloody ridiculous

It's the airport code for Chiang Mai airport.

On 7/23/2026 at 8:10 AM, cdemundo said:

I'll bet the "certain nationality" is Brits right?

Everybody hates Brits.

Anyway, nobody on AN has a hate fixation on any other nationality.

There are 4 countries comprising the Disunited Kingdom. Most from down south

2 hours ago, cdemundo said:

I wonder when people recommend learning Thai and claim or imply that they are fluent, have they had an objective assessment of their command of the Thai language?

I don't mean that taxi drivers compliment your grasp of Thai, I mean something like the Chula CU-TFL (Chulalongkorn University Thai Proficiency Test of Thai as a Foreign Language).

I have limited language learning aptitude ( ok I'm dumb) and I study Thai every day.

Realistically I will never progress beyond the beginner level.

As with many things people express about themselves on AN, I wonder how accurate some people's self-assessments of their Thai language proficiency is.

Just to be clear I have never noticed any tendency of AN members to err on the side of humility when doing any sort of self-assessment and I am wondering to what extent this is the case with the self-proclaimed fluent speakers of Thai.

Limited language learning ability does not equate to dumb. Have bad teachers in the foreign language is the main reason people in UK do not speak more than one language.

I learnt more French in one month hitch-hiking than 2 years in secondary school (in the 1970s)

If there is one culture that never assimilates, it's the Brits. They're the same in Spain too - stick to their own enclaves, demanding fish and chips, beans on toasts and pot noodles. Yet they're racist to the chore to immigrants back in their home country for not assimilating. Go work that deep psycho analysis out.

15 hours ago, Bday Prang said:

What or where is CNX

Recently I did CNX to BKK and back. In the past I did LAX-ICN-CNX. Way back then I used to do CNX-SIN-LAX and back. But I avoid DMK as much as possible.

"I often sit with racist Brits in Pattaya bars who pontificate that immigrants back in the UK don't integrate"

I agree with you about the hypocrisy.... but complaining that immigrants back in the UK don't integrate is not racist, especially when the comments identify those of a certain religion. One can't apply the "don't integrate" comment to all immigrant groups, but absolutely you can apply it to certain groups.

5 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

Recently I did CNX to BKK and back. In the past I did LAX-ICN-CNX. Way back then I used to do CNX-SIN-LAX and back. But I avoid DMK as much as possible.

YOU MUS HAV BIN VRY TRD!

I think the best way for us to interfere with Thai culture is to encourage our women to be truly open-minded and to always question things, it's always a healthy position to question authority, customs, traditions, and the established way of doing things, in addition to the official narrative.

28 minutes ago, simon43 said:

YOU MUS HAV BIN VRY TRD!

Yes. But at BKK I can take the ARL to Phaya Thai BTS so I can get to CTRL WRLD very easily. ARL was only 45 BAHT.

ARL = AIRPORT RAIL LINE.

21 hours ago, save the frogs said:

It's probably one of the reasons they don't give permanent residency to foreigners easily. Foreigners might start meddling too much in the culture.

Maybe but if that is the only reason and they have no way of overcoming that well it is a not so efficient system. My wife got full residence rights in the UK after a 2 year period on the understanding that if, and she never would, broke the laws she would lose that right. Thailand could do something similar. They could still revoke the permission if you broke a serious law, something a bit more than speeding.

On 7/22/2026 at 6:01 PM, BritManToo said:

Why bother when you can never be a citizen?

I'm more hermit than expat bubble, I don't mix with anyone outside my immediate family.

I didn't come to settle here, got married to a local and had a kid.

And I can't return with my wife, as she's Buddhist Thai.

And the Brit government only want Muslims.

C'mon, you don't want to go back, nothing to do with your wife's religion even if she's a mae chee!

On 7/22/2026 at 5:59 PM, simon43 said:

This question applies to any foreigner who settles in a different country, but let's limit it to Thailand.

Very few foreigners here become Thai citizens. There are a number of PRs, but the vast majority of us are on non-immigrant visas, and therefore not legally settled here.

I see/read about many foreigners who 'settle' in Thailand, but then share nothing with the local population, other than the sun. They make little effort to learn the language or traditions or history or culture. They commit faux pas because they know little about the dominant religion. They survive on 'western' food and exist in some kind of expat bubble.

I have to ask why they came to settle here, and I can only think of sun, sex and cheaper living. But all of those desires do not preclude making an effort to integrate into the Thai community. For me, it's similar to the Muslim ghettos of my home city of Leicester - foreign communities who have no desire to integrate or understand the indigenous population.

Would you support a simple Thai language test when you go renew your non-immigrant visa? Fail that test and you're out......? Let's hear your comments :)

Wow, Simon, that's kind of an all-or-nothing gamble! How about just taxi Thai?

On 7/22/2026 at 6:26 PM, Rams86 said:

I'm living on the outskirts of Korat for a few months as my wife is renovating her late mothers house at my wifes expense. Since I've been here I'm a total nobody, not even a sawadee krub. That's ok with me because I'm out of here in about 10 days time. May I add my wifes family treat me extra well. They always refer to me as Papa Raymond, I've never heard them use the word farang once. I'll be back in our home in Nong Chok Bangkok soon, the Thai people in our large estate are totally different to the people up here. They are so polite and friendly, one would think these country and city people come from two different countries.

Ray, ya gotta give to get. If you smile first, know whom to wai, have that wai at the right position, befriend the local teachers (red wine helps), help anybody who wants to learn English.

But don't expect respect if you're not going to benefit anyone.