4 hours ago, Thingamabob said:

While this idea may appeal to Carney and fellow globalists Canada needs to be very cautious on this. It borders with the USA, the world's largest economy, and Donald Trump won't be around for ever.

No. He won't.

But the tens of millions who elected him will be. As will all the others who allowed that to happen and have proven incapable of neutering/removing him. As will the useless tattered, bent and twisted so-called 'guard rails'.

As will the Project 2025 acolytes who have been gradually and patiently subverting the system from below for a decade or two. As will the placewo/men installed across the administration and courts.

As will the robber baron oligarchs who've funded this disgusting mess.

As will the killer presidential intimidation militia.

Even the country's best generals have been sacked, Stalin style and replaced with the 'Hitler's generals' Trump so dearly wanted. Who are now bogged down in this particular 'administration's war of choice.

Quite apart from the perverting of the DOJ.

Or the monopolization of the media conglomerates and program to silence criticism.

All part and parcel of the Putinization of America.

He loves Putin, your Trump. He really does.

The world has understood that the US is no longer trustworthy or even a model to emulate. That it is modeling itself on Putin's rabid authoritarian, warmongering, kleptocracy.

The world economy will struggle for years to deal with the latest US calumny.

Trump is almost irrelevant - he's actually being allowed to take the flak and enrich himself as the reward for that.

Don't care who you replace him with. Trust and alliances broken take decades to rebuild, as the stupid Brits are finding out with their idiotic 'Brexit'. They too thought they were smart and could steal a march on their closest neighbors and friends. Still think the world (principally the '4th Reich', EUSSR') needs them more than they need the world.

You think if Jon Ossoff is elected president the world will suddenly say ''Great! Glad to have you back.''? That you can say ''OK. Skinch! Was only a joke. Didn't really mean it.''?

No. The world has understood that flashes in the pan like Obama and Ossoff only serve to mask and deflect from what is really happening.

Carney, the EU and the other democratic countries in the world are reforming their long term relationships and alliances, rationally, wisely and powerfully, to adapt to the abject failure of the US to do the same post 1989.

13 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

I was wondering if Trump responded, and sure enough he has.

Calling the deal "laughable" and "a hostile act".

So he's got more vengeful tariffs up his sleeve?

Preparing the military to invade Canada?

Yes, Trump will impose more tariffs on the EU to get revenge!

Revenge !!!!

Or Trump will STOP trading with EU altogether.

To be continued ...

There are a few details to take into account, in particular the fact that the EU is US main export market.

2 hours ago, JonnyF said:

"You started it"

That's some top level diplomacy right there 😄.

"He started it so I'll run to the EU". Smart cookie that Carney.

Yeah Carney is a smart cookie, especially if it comes to knowledge of economics, and he has proven that in the past. Not something that can be said of you

55 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

I was wondering if Trump responded, and sure enough he has.

Calling the deal "laughable" and "a hostile act".

So he's got more vengeful tariffs up his sleeve?

Preparing the military to invade Canada?

Yes, Trump will impose more tariffs on the EU to get revenge!

Revenge !!!!

Or Trump will STOP trading with EU altogether.

To be continued ...

So Trump now think he can decide how and with whom foreign countries trade? The guy has an issue, but we knew that all along.

5 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

So Trump now think he can decide how and with whom foreign countries trade? The guy has an issue, but we knew that all along.

I think he's just ranting and uttering threats to make people nervous.

23 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

I think he's just ranting and uttering threats to make people nervous.

Alternatively, he's just off his rocker.

Well, nobody really know what this means as there hasn't been any associate members before. This will take months or years to come to any kind of fruition. The CETA (Canada-EU free trade deal) still hasn't been approved by all EU member states. It's been in the works for 10 years. So I don't expect anything substantial out of this move within the next year or two at least. It's more symbolic at this point. It highlights the unraveling of US relations with the world caused by a deranged narccisist in the WH who is way out of his league in international relations as we've seen time and again.

6 minutes ago, ronnie50 said:

It highlights the unraveling of US relations with the world caused by a deranged narccisist in the WH who is way out of his league in international relations as we've seen time and again.

Ursula in her speech said "it's not a coalition against anyone".

But it is, to some extent.

Both Canada and EU are protecting themselves against the US with this move.

17 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

Alternatively, he's just off his rocker.

I thought people were exaggerating in their attacks against Trump.

But I won't be defending him much anymore.

This is the straw that broke the camel's back for me.

Most of the time, I'm not sure what he's doing or why he's doing it.

And I will stop assuming he knows what he's doing.

This Canada thing may have been a major failed negotiation tactic on his part and maybe now he's getting increasingly hostile because he's upset his negotiaton failed.

Edited September 17Sep 17 by save the frogs

Canada Backed by EU Chief as First 'Associate Member'

It's a good thing Canada has oil wells. They're going to need all those lubricants.

Carney thought Canada was getting rogered by the USA. The EU is saying, "Hold my beer".

What do many comments show about this:

This has given the MAGA morons such a shock that they are now spinning in their own intellectually cage in which they are trapped.

Edited September 17Sep 17 by BerndD

4 hours ago, JonnyF said:

I don't consider the EU to be fair.

Or honest.

Quite the opposite in fact.

Canada should be very careful what it signs up to. It's like the Hotel California.

We all have our opinions, feelings and considerations, that doesn't make them facts. No organization can be ideal to everybody, there are winners and losers, swings and roundabouts. The EU has a very difficult job, 27 countries all with their own governments and central banks all with different problems which have to be smoothed out, several countries have been pulled out of poverty and given the possibility to stand on their own feet and progress, Poland is a good example. Instead of the old dogmatic, patriotic feelings for ones own country a real feeling of being European has evolved. As an Englishman I lived in Germany for 35 years and travelled without 'let or hindrance' throughout Europe, it's a wonderful place and no matter where I was I felt at home. Brexit was a sad day for me although I haven't been back to the UK for over 50 years and don't intend to return.

11 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Canada should be very careful before allowing Brussels to leverage Canada's vulnerable and precarious position to advance its own interests.

As you should know: "Brussels" does not make any decissions, but the EU Councel, consisting of the leaders of the EU member states. When the UK would be still in, Mr Burnham would be one of them. And for Canada, that would be their present prime minister: Carney. Mrs. Ursula von der Leyen is only allowed to come with suggestions, propositions and.. remember the Council to previous decissions.

The EU has failed since it adopted this crap leadership model - just a gravy train, without any care for growth.

Remove her and the commmission, and look for a more aggressive path forward. Leaders of Germany, France, Italy must come together and take the lead. Forget the rest of them and giving them equal voices.

Then they must entice the UK back into the fold, especially for security.

10 hours ago, Thingamabob said:

As I said already, Trump won't be around for ever.

thanks to god for that...

I think it's great that Canada is finally cutting ties with the US. Once they are out from under the thumb of the capitalist pigs, they should build a wall immediately and pull all the work permits from US citizens.

5 hours ago, JonnyF said:

I don't consider the EU to be fair.

Or honest.

Quite the opposite in fact.

Canada should be very careful what it signs up to. It's like the Hotel California.

You might be on to something.

Well, who was it? Cameron? He tried to negotiate with Brussels, but they were inflexible.

So it lead to Brexit.

But why are they being flexible with Canada?

Also, what's the joke? EU's biggest export is regulations?

They stab it with their steely knives but they just can't kill the beast.

Or maybe things are different now because of the US ....

Edited September 17Sep 17 by save the frogs

I think:

Canada's birthrate is 1.25%

Of those, 40% were born to foreign born mothers

About 18% of Canadians born in Canada have at least one foreign born parent

About 23% of Canada's total population are foreign born immigrants

How do this many people assimilate?

4 hours ago, save the frogs said:

I think he's just ranting and uttering threats to make people nervous.

I think he’s just ranting and uttering threats because deep down he’s an insecure little toddler who throws a temper tantrum every time he doesn’t get his way. Which I suspect happens dozens of times every day. It must be extremely exhausting to be one of his handlers.

31 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I think:

Canada's birthrate is 1.25%

Of those, 40% were born to foreign born mothers

About 18% of Canadians born in Canada have at least one foreign born parent

About 23% of Canada's total population are foreign born immigrants

How do this many people assimilate?

As it turns out, having a common enemy/boogieman (hint: he’s the orange haired guy in the WH) speeds that process up quite significantly. So Trump is achieving the exact opposite of what he was aiming for. Which is true for most of what he does.

50 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

You might be on to something.

Well, who was it? Cameron? He tried to negotiate with Brussels, but they were inflexible.

So it lead to Brexit.

But why are they being flexible with Canada?

Also, what's the joke? EU's biggest export is regulations?

They stab it with their steely knives but they just can't kill the beast.

Or maybe things are different now because of the US ....

Cameron wanted the cake and also eat it (the single market benefits without all the attached constraints)

UK (May) ruled out remaining in the custom union. Brexit means Brexit!

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-qa-what-does-theresa-mays-brexit-statement-mean-for-the-uk

Edited September 17Sep 17 by candide

1 hour ago, rudi49jr said:

I think he’s just ranting and uttering threats because deep down he’s an insecure little toddler who throws a temper tantrum every time he doesn’t get his way. Which I suspect happens dozens of times every day. It must be extremely exhausting to be one of his handlers.

Carney is a lot of things, but I would not call him a toddler.

A very shrewd move by Canada (and the EU).

A pact based on the principle that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." It is the perfect moment to capitalize on Trump's shortsightedness by forging new alliances. China and India will likely follow suit.

Of course, the time for reconciliation after Trump is drawing near, but nothing will stop Canada from playing both sides.

Finally, as a Frenchman, I am happy to see our cousins from Quebec joining us.

16 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Actually, so might the EU

I don't know why you think of it? EU seems to be the one and only anchor to stabilize this world

11 hours ago, save the frogs said:

But why are they being flexible with Canada?

Thin end of the wedge. Classic bait and switch.

They ensnare you with a promising deal then gradually start turning the screw.

Same way we started off with the common market which was actually a great idea, then slowly it morphed into the EU with the Schengen zone, the Euro, the huge European Parliament, increased powers for the European Commission, a myriad of rules and regulations from Brussels etc.

Canada should stay well clear. If they're obsessed/deranged about Trump they should wait a couple of years, not jump from the frying pan into the fire.

2 hours ago, newbee2022 said:

I don't know why you think of it? EU seems to be the one and only anchor to stabilize this world

Based on what?

40 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Thin end of the wedge. Classic bait and switch.

They ensnare you with a promising deal then gradually start turning the screw.

Same way we started off with the common market which was actually a great idea, then slowly it morphed into the EU with the Schengen zone, the Euro, the huge European Parliament, increased powers for the European Commission, a myriad of rules and regulations from Brussels etc.

Canada should stay well clear. If they're obsessed/deranged about Trump they should wait a couple of years, not jump from the frying pan into the fire.

Carney is only grandstanding to hurt Trump in the midterms, unless he is a compete lunatic, which I guess is possible.

30 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Based on what?

Based on trust and law = reliability

The EU will consist of Brussels and some other poorer European counties in 10 years is my guess . Germany , France and the UK are all going to have right wing nationalistic governments within 5 years. Well done to all the leftie pandering governments and student politics …lol The EU gravy train will soon be finished , should of just stuck to being a trading block

17 hours ago, CallumWK said:

Yeah Carney is a smart cookie, especially if it comes to knowledge of economics, and he has proven that in the past. Not something that can be said of you

Yeh Carney is a smart cookie, or the biggest fool who knows exactly what he is doing. Why would a so called good economist join up with a group of countries that will most likely be the epicentre of a sovereign debt crisis? It's like Carney has had his country rescued from the US by climbing aboard the Titanic. Unfortunately the Titanic has already hit the iceberg. They'll suck any lifeblood out of Canada. Why does Canada need to "join up." Trade with them at arms length! T